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If we're getting technical, it's more similar to indentured servitude than slavery, since I believe Chise receives a portion of the money. Plus I don't think anything in the manga or show ever suggests that its an institutionalized or systemic affair; her decision to sell herself is unique.
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Oct 26, 2017 21:20
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Nitrousoxide posted:I want to be clear, my problem isn't with there being a story about a slaveholder and his slave. That's fine. My problem is with the tone this show has about the slavery, and the viewers who want to justify Elias's slavery of Chise and ascribe noble motives not even hinted at to him.
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Oct 26, 2017 21:28
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NitrousOxide isn't being entirely fair but it's pretty reasonable to think Chise is still a slave when the anime mangled that one scene (or maybe the manga translators improved it idk) and also to then be creeped out by that + their early relationhip. Not like people weren't fighting over that poo poo back when the manga was at chapter 3. I mean just imo but it really weirded me out when the anime went "But I don't have any right to refuse, do I?" *funny sound* "Well, no". Big difference between didn't and don't there.
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Oct 26, 2017 22:27
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Mordja posted:If we're getting technical, it's more similar to indentured servitude than slavery, since I believe Chise receives a portion of the money. Plus I don't think anything in the manga or show ever suggests that its an institutionalized or systemic affair; her decision to sell herself is unique. it may be a small spoiler but it's important to know that the auction where Chise sold herself is not a slave auction; it's simply a black-market setup that will sell anything. Chise selling herself was an anomaly, not necessarily a normal occurrence. further, nothing about Chise and Elias' relationship can be described in normal terms; she is a near-suicidal wreck, he is literally an alien. trying to judge their relationship by reference to real-world slave institutions is disingenuous. but then we are obv all talking to the air with this guy so who cares, people should probably stop responding to him except that this thread is dead otherwise so eh.
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Oct 27, 2017 06:04
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Sorry for my previous post, I shouldn't have made it just before I went to bed. Everyone please ignore it cause I don't want to restart the fight. This post might be even dumber but w/e
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Oct 27, 2017 08:11
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I so see Nitrua's point, to an extent. Elias did buy her out of slavery and did force her - not harshly, but it was forceful - to do what he asks of her. That spectre does hang over their relationship. But at the same time, this is the healthiest relationship she has ever had. Nitrus keeps trying to make a distinction between adoption and slavery, but in this case the only difference is paperwork and legal status. That assumes that the courts would even let Elias adopt her instead of throwing her in foster care due to her mental condition, which would likely return her to the mental hell that made her enslave herself. She had effectively been bought out of slavery. So lets pretend adoption isn't an option here. What exactly are you asking of Elias, Nitrus? Did you want him to break her chains and tell her she's free to go? If so, then what? Best case scenario, Chise clings to him as the nicest person she's cone in contact with, but also he's the only person she knows that could explain her ability to see strange creatures. Its a slightly better relationship dynamic that also tells a different story.
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Oct 27, 2017 13:44
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Elias is also protecting her from a wide variety of beings who would love to have an overcharged walking mana battery to exploit/devour, as well. His purchasing her was not ideal, for sure. However, considering the other beings at the auction, this is kind of the best case scenario.
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Oct 27, 2017 14:32
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To me it mostly just comes down to Magus' Bride occupying the same space that TYPE-MOON's wizard/magus world does, in that Elias and his relationship with Chise and the whole auction scene is all a bunch of things to add to the pile of "hey this magical world of wizards and fairies and dragons is not at all a fun happy Harry Potter funtime but instead kind of hosed up" and treat Chise as the exception to the general rule of that world's occupants being amoral and alienating to common values.
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Oct 27, 2017 14:42
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like i said before, the slavery stuff falls off pretty hard and fast and elias/chise develop a relationship that is more balanced, with the hosed up stuff then coming from their individual mental states/experiences instead of Slavery. if anyone in this thread had legitimate complaints it was BlankConstruct taking issue with the use of slavery that has no follow-up, not the dude who came in fists flying and accusing people itt of loving slavery.
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Oct 27, 2017 15:08
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bring back wizard apartheid
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Oct 28, 2017 08:32
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Cats cats cats cats The show does love it's cliffhangers doesn't it Knorth fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 22:38
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I liked the part where Elias told a cat to shut up and then complained about children. Reminded me of my husband.
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Oct 28, 2017 23:34
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Sorcererrrrrssss!  Cats' reaction to Shadow Elias is great.
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Oct 29, 2017 00:18
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Sindai posted:Sorcererrrrrssss! Were they going after his eyes like laser dots?
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Oct 29, 2017 01:27
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so uh, are those smart cats slaves to humans?
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Oct 29, 2017 01:27
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This and the next chapter/episode are some of my favorites in the series. Might have something to do with me being a Lovecraft fan.
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Oct 29, 2017 01:31
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Genocyber posted:This and the next chapter/episode are some of my favorites in the series. Might have something to do with me being a Lovecraft fan. So far this episode didn't seem lovecraftian in the least to me.
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Oct 29, 2017 01:33
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There Bias Two posted:So far this episode didn't seem lovecraftian in the least to me. ‘The Cats Of Ulthar’ covers very similar territory to this arc, and may have been an inspiration.
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Oct 29, 2017 01:36
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The sound design and BGM for this show is fuckin goooood
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Oct 29, 2017 01:40
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There Bias Two posted:So far this episode didn't seem lovecraftian in the least to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cats_of_Ulthar
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Oct 29, 2017 01:51
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:so uh, are those smart cats slaves to humans?
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Oct 29, 2017 01:57
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Like all cats the cats of Ulthar deign to keep their humans company in exchange for offerings of food and affection
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Oct 29, 2017 03:09
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Chise's gonna be alright, right guys? Right? 
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Oct 29, 2017 04:27
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lucky she sold herself as a slave otherwise she might be resentful at being used as a test subject
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Oct 29, 2017 04:42
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I'm not sure you get to knock Elias' treatment of Chise when you've got a knife pointed at her throat, you two.
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Oct 29, 2017 05:14
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where the red fern gropes posted:lucky she sold herself as a slave otherwise she might be resentful at being used as a test subject Honestly if crippling depression was all that it took for characters in fiction to stop yakking about how they never asked for this and how they just wanted to be normal and how they wished all this exciting supernatural action never happened, then I would wish all the world's most ruinous and debilitating suffering upon all of them huh, I never realized the problem with Eva was that Shinji wasn't depressed ENOUGH
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Oct 29, 2017 06:12
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OnimaruXLR posted:Honestly if crippling depression was all that it took for characters in fiction to stop yakking about how they never asked for this and how they just wanted to be normal and how they wished all this exciting supernatural action never happened, then I would wish all the world's most ruinous and debilitating suffering upon all of them
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Oct 29, 2017 06:29
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There are no problems with eva and shinji is a strong kid who does his best in a hosed up situation.
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Oct 29, 2017 06:42
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My point was just that in spite of how horrible her life was and her hosed up state of mind, I appreciate that it makes Chise more open to all the assorted magical nonsense that has come her way. I've never appreciated the "reluctant protagonist" thing, especially when the character's life prior to the interesting story parts wasn't actually that good in the first place.
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Oct 29, 2017 12:14
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halleys comet posted:There are no problems with eva and shinji is a strong kid who does his best in a hosed up situation. including the jacking off
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Oct 29, 2017 12:14
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Stories are based around conflict, normal people don't like conflict. Ergo if your protagonist is a normal person they won't like being the protagonist. Shinji is pretty normal and thus is terrified of being a major part of a literal conflict against giant aliens that want to end the world. Chise on the other hand basically doesn't value her own life so she doesn't care about being put in a potentially dangerous position. It's not because she's a stronger or better person, it's because she has something seriously wrong with her.OnimaruXLR posted:I've never appreciated the "reluctant protagonist" thing, especially when the character's life prior to the interesting story parts wasn't actually that good in the first place. One is usually the reason for the other, having a bad life generally makes you worse at dealing with stress, not better.
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Oct 29, 2017 13:52
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I really like this arc. It sets a tone and feel for the series--the kingdom of cats in particular.
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Oct 29, 2017 21:09
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OnimaruXLR posted:The sound design and BGM for this show is fuckin goooood yeah i wanted to come in and post this, musical cues and poo poo are so tasteful and understated. i have to wonder what Wit's budget was for this project because the OVAs and the episodes they have so far are very unique, complete experiences. it's obvious they put a ton of work into this. full op when SealHammer fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 18:33
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SealHammer posted:yeah i wanted to come in and post this, musical cues and poo poo are so tasteful and understated. i have to wonder what Wit's budget was for this project because the OVAs and the episodes they have so far are very unique, complete experiences. it's obvious they put a ton of work into this. the single was released in japan on november 1st https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-kbPlmr-oY
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Nov 4, 2017 05:41
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this is going for 26 eps right
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Nov 4, 2017 10:10
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where the red fern gropes posted:this is going for 26 eps right That is what I have heard, yes.
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Nov 4, 2017 10:24
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Nitrousoxide posted:I'm sorry, whether he understands what he's doing is wrong or not, every moment he's on screen I want him to die,
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Nov 4, 2017 10:25
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Can someone explain how the magic worked at the end of the episode? I'm not sure what was going on. Also, did those sorcerers show up and then do nothing? It makes me think the mangaka is very bad at exposition.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:48
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instead of erasing them, chise blew their souls into the afterlife or equivalent, with the cat king guiding them. also the next episode should have some more stuff with the sorcerers but yeah they basically show up to steal the corruption/poo poo talk elias and fail. it's just a small introduction for renfred and alice, and how sorcerers relate to the fae. i feel like even the fan tl of the manga better expresses the magic than the subs did, no idea if its due to tl or the anime script though.
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Nov 4, 2017 20:07
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Maera Sior posted:Also, did those sorcerers show up and then do nothing? It makes me think the mangaka is very bad at exposition. It was weird but I assume that the second Chise got loose was the moment they "lost" since they know they can't fight against Elias without that kind of advantage.
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Nov 4, 2017 21:51
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