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Marvel’s Spider-man continues to feel like a one sided love triangle between Spider-man, Peter, and Harry. Which is weird because describing it that way has Peter cheating on Harry with his own secret identity.
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Oct 29, 2017 17:46
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| # ? May 22, 2024 13:57 |
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TFRazorsaw posted:Marvel’s Spider-man continues to feel like a one sided love triangle between Spider-man, Peter, and Harry. Hell, Superman did it.
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Oct 29, 2017 17:56
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But Lois didn’t hate Superman! Harry hates Spider-man!
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Oct 29, 2017 17:57
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punk rebel ecks posted:So my comic book peers keep telling me that comic book heroes would kick Goku and other shonen protagonists rear end in a fight. Are there any good animated films that depict how strong these heroes powers are? Such as Superman, Hulk, Thor, etc.? It's honestly apples and oranges to compare characters from different fictional worlds, from different narratives, in that way. Hell, going by the rules of Dragon Ball, Goku would beat Superman in a fight but then they would become friends and team up against an actual evil threat, because that's what happens in Dragon Ball. The scope of any character's particular strength, and even what powers they have, are subject to change. Superman alone has been written by maybe over a hundred different writers just in the past couple of decades. Most animated films about the powerhouse-type heroes are going to be hyping up how strong they are, though, because that's the main draw of the characters. So I'd say try Hulk vs. Thor and Hulk vs. Wolverine; All-Star Superman; and maybe Justice League: Doom. I'm sure there are others which are good too, but I can't think of any I'd leap at recommending.
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Oct 29, 2017 17:58
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Like Goku became a literal God early on in Dragon Ball Super, but that wasn't strong enough so he became a SUPER god, and even then that fell down short pretty soon, so he then became TWO SUPER gods and that's pretty powerful, but sometimes he's stronger if he fights ON PURE INSTINCT alone (????) and boy I bet what comes after that starts lagging behind too
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Oct 29, 2017 18:20
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AlternateNu posted:The most well known comparison videos are probably ScrewAttack's Death Battles on youtube. They use some sketchy numbers and assumptions for a lot of their comparisons, but in the end, it's all fanwankery, anyway. I watched them but they are very odd or even dumb. For example, for Goku vs Superman 2, they made it at the very beginning of Super. Currently Goku is at least 20 times as powerful which, according to to the first episode, should make him better than Superman in some aspects, such as speed. I also couldn't stand their lame explanation of "Superman has no limits, where as of Goku breaks any limit. But if there is no limit to break, Goku will lose." Like WTF? Not to mention they said Broly was roughly equal to Doomsday, who killed Superman, and Goku is about to fight a Not Broly in the next episode and (caution: spoilers from next episode preview) apparently win and thus the Not Broly will have to fusion. Fuego Fish posted:So I'd say try Hulk vs. Thor and Hulk vs. Wolverine; All-Star Superman; and maybe Justice League: Doom. I'm sure there are others which are good too, but I can't think of any I'd leap at recommending. Thanks. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 29, 2017 |
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Oct 29, 2017 18:50
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At some point characters are close enough to infinite power that trying to compare infinities against each other loses all meaning. It's particularly dumb when people treat power levels in Dragon Ball Z as if they actually mean anything, since the whole point of power levels was that it would be a running gag that the scouters never worked and power levels could just fluctuate wildly anyways. Personally I like to leave it as Hulk strongest one there is, because as Hulk testifies, "Hulk strongest one there is." And personal testimony is about as valid as any other fictional evidence.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:09
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I want to see a DC vs Marvel vs Shonen animated film. That would be my dream.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:13
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Superman got beat up by Venom one time, but also he can supposedly beat goku, who can beat personified universes and poo poo.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:13
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Yeah it's all bullshit anyway because literally any hero can beat anyone else solely if an author says they can.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:20
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Oct 29, 2017 19:26
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Thompsons posted:Yeah it's all bullshit anyway because literally any hero can beat anyone else solely if an author says they can. Luffy vs Thor would be interesting.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:I want to see a DC vs Marvel vs Shonen animated film. That would be my dream.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:39
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punk rebel ecks posted:I want to see a DC vs Marvel vs Shonen animated film. That would be my dream. Everyone knows Marvel vs. Capcom, but there's also a Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. They just need to cut the Capcom bit out.
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Oct 29, 2017 20:42
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So I watched "Justice League: Doom". It was pretty good. Though I will admit the characters did look weak compared to what Death Battle said they could do. Also, Batman parts bugged me at times because if Bane wanted to kill him he could have just smashed his head when he got him unconscious before he buried him, or he could have snapped his neck while he was chocking him during the second fight. I was also disappointed that the film didn't show just why Batman was so sure the Justice League could never be trusted. It just left it like "yeah that's just his opinion".
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Oct 29, 2017 22:41
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Death Battle almost always visually cites their sources (with clips or screencaps of a comic) so if none of their examples were from a given book or movie, then you shouldn't expect to see it elsewhere. Comic book characters are not remotely written like manga or anime characters. They often have many writers over many years, sometimes decades, and even worse, might have multiple writers concurrently as one character can easily appear in multiple different works, some of which aren't even in the same continuity. So there simply isn't such a thing as "THE Superman" or "THE Flash" to compare to a character like Goku, who pretty much has a main, canon version, and a few clearly marked non-canon versions.
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Oct 29, 2017 22:50
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Plus, there are very few comic plots where the hero has to get stronger to defeat a powerful enemy. They usually have to learn to fight smarter, fight as a team, or find the macguffin. Wolverine isn't going to go to Japan to learn the drill claw technique to defeat Sabertooth, no matter how awesome that'd be.
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Oct 29, 2017 23:04
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Open Marriage Night posted:Plus, there are very few comic plots where the hero has to get stronger to defeat a powerful enemy. They usually have to learn to fight smarter, fight as a team, or find the macguffin. Wolverine isn't going to go to Japan to learn the drill claw technique to defeat Sabertooth, no matter how awesome that'd be. He could at least send Colossus to some baseball lessons, pick up some new pitches.
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Oct 29, 2017 23:58
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Jack Kirby and Osamu Tezuka would team up to defeat the forces of anti-life, injustice and hatred.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:20
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ToastyPotato posted:Death Battle almost always visually cites their sources (with clips or screencaps of a comic) so if none of their examples were from a given book or movie, then you shouldn't expect to see it elsewhere. Comic book characters are not remotely written like manga or anime characters. They often have many writers over many years, sometimes decades, and even worse, might have multiple writers concurrently as one character can easily appear in multiple different works, some of which aren't even in the same continuity. So there simply isn't such a thing as "THE Superman" or "THE Flash" to compare to a character like Goku, who pretty much has a main, canon version, and a few clearly marked non-canon versions. Yeah. I tried getting into comics and people recommended some to me. But none of the stories had continuity. 
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Oct 30, 2017 01:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:Also, Batman parts bugged me at times because if Bane wanted to kill him he could have just smashed his head when he got him unconscious before he buried him, or he could have snapped his neck while he was chocking him during the second fight. I was also disappointed that the film didn't show just why Batman was so sure the Justice League could never be trusted. It just left it like "yeah that's just his opinion". It's not so much that they couldn't be trusted, it's more that JUST IN CASE something happened he wanted a plan to deal with the problem.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:12
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The true novelty of all the Superman V. Goku thing is that of all characters Buu could probably legit beat superman in a fight because Superman is vulnerable to magic and Buu is a magic bubble gum monster.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:28
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yeah. I tried getting into comics and people recommended some to me. But none of the stories had continuity. There is a poo poo ton of continuity to be found in comics but unfortunately you kind of have to look for it sometimes. Most individual books are self contained unless they are in crossover mode, which then tend to be in now more than in the past. It might be better to read already completed arcs and crossovers, and only dip into proper ongoing series when you find something you like. Honestly, it is kind of why I am stuck mostly just reading Injustice and Star Wars comics. There is no overwhelming feeling like I need to read too many books to get the full picture. It is all pretty straight forward and self contained. I'm missing out on the current Batman Metal thing because apparently it is crossing over with a bunch of books and I just don't want to deal with that many right now.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:50
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ToastyPotato posted:There is a poo poo ton of continuity to be found in comics but unfortunately you kind of have to look for it sometimes. Most individual books are self contained unless they are in crossover mode, which then tend to be in now more than in the past. It might be better to read already completed arcs and crossovers, and only dip into proper ongoing series when you find something you like. I wonder why comics developed like this as oppose to how manga and literature developed.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:16
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punk rebel ecks posted:I wonder why comics developed like this as oppose to how manga and literature developed. Money. Sales drop, so you make more books with popular characters, and have more crossovers to boost sales. Then you reboot every several years to renew interest, all done because they are proven to work to boost sales. But the reboots always end up bothering people, so you end up just bringing back the old stuff to bring in the older fans, which results in more crazy crossovers, and another reboot. Hence, the crazy continuities.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:55
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ToastyPotato posted:Money. Sales drop, so you make more books with popular characters, and have more crossovers to boost sales. Then you reboot every several years to renew interest, all done because they are proven to work to boost sales. But the reboots always end up bothering people, so you end up just bringing back the old stuff to bring in the older fans, which results in more crazy crossovers, and another reboot. Hence, the crazy continuities. So now we have the reverse question, why isn't manga like that? Is it because the creators own the copyright?
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Oct 30, 2017 02:59
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Sorry what do you mean by "none of the stories had continuity"? Do you just mean that things happening in one book may or may not affect what's happening in others?
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Oct 30, 2017 03:04
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wdarkk posted:So now we have the reverse question, why isn't manga like that? Is it because the creators own the copyright? That, and there wasn't as strong a sense that the creators were disposable early on in manga as there was in pre-war to 60s Western comics. Poorly treated and compensated assistants who are uncredited were and are used by manga publishers to make up for that though. And some Disney comics creators internationally still don't get credit. Endless Mike posted:Sorry what do you mean by "none of the stories had continuity"? Do you just mean that things happening in one book may or may not affect what's happening in others? Seeing as how he's coming from manga I assume he means one continuous story told by one creator from beginning to end. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 03:06
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Through a lot of legal finagling, the rights to the characters and storylines of comic books wound up being owned by the publisher instead of the artist or writer, and so as time went and companies grew, and artists and writers drifted to an from employers, the publishers would put different people on the titles. That setup also led to the DC shared universe, because a lot of DC's heavy hitters were originally developed by separate companies that all eventually wound up under the same roof after a series of companies swallowing other companies.
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Oct 30, 2017 03:15
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wdarkk posted:So now we have the reverse question, why isn't manga like that? Is it because the creators own the copyright? If I had to wager a guess, it'd be because a lot of popular manga come in forms like Shonen Jump where you get a whole bunch of comics in one bundle. If Batman is in an issue of Superman then that would boost Superman's sales. But Jump doesn't have individual titles. You don't need to boost sales of any one book, like you do in American comics. One Piece has the same sales as every other comic in Jump on the weeks it is published (even if it might sell way more in collections). That said, if Jump itself isn't doing that great (which I had heard recently but could be some totally unsubstantiated rumor) I don't know why Luffy or Naruto or [shonen protagonist x] aren't teaming up every week to help boost total sales. e: oh never mind other people came up with better answers before me, ignore this. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 03:30
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ToastyPotato posted:Money. Sales drop, so you make more books with popular characters, and have more crossovers to boost sales. Then you reboot every several years to renew interest, all done because they are proven to work to boost sales. But the reboots always end up bothering people, so you end up just bringing back the old stuff to bring in the older fans, which results in more crazy crossovers, and another reboot. Hence, the crazy continuities. I'd assume this is had a major part in comics declining. Too many stories to keep track of and readers not caring or bonding with the characters or world enough. TwoPair posted:If I had to wager a guess, it'd be because a lot of popular manga come in forms like Shonen Jump where you get a whole bunch of comics in one bundle. If Batman is in an issue of Superman then that would boost Superman's sales. But Jump doesn't have individual titles. You don't need to boost sales of any one book, like you do in American comics. One Piece has the same sales as every other comic in Jump on the weeks it is published (even if it might sell way more in collections). That said, if Jump itself isn't doing that great (which I had heard recently but could be some totally unsubstantiated rumor) I don't know why Luffy or Naruto or [shonen protagonist x] aren't teaming up every week to help boost total sales. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muu81gSLaM Basically, One Piece became insanely popular five years ago, but has since declined to half of those sales, in just being extremely popular.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:19
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punk rebel ecks posted:I'd assume this is had a major part in comics declining. Too many stories to keep track of and readers not caring or bonding with the characters or world enough. There's also the fact that in most cases, the only place to get comic books is at (surprise!) a comic book shop, and those have a habit and a reputation of being unfriendly places towards newcomers and outsiders. There's honestly a large number of factors that go into why comics have been on the decline, and sadly for the industry they'll probably never be at the numbers they used to be at again.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:35
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Dexie posted:There's also the fact that in most cases, the only place to get comic books is at (surprise!) a comic book shop, and those have a habit and a reputation of being unfriendly places towards newcomers and outsiders.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:37
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Dexie posted:There's also the fact that in most cases, the only place to get comic books is at (surprise!) a comic book shop, and those have a habit and a reputation of being unfriendly places towards newcomers and outsiders.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:38
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TFRazorsaw posted:Marvel’s Spider-man continues to feel like a one sided love triangle between Spider-man, Peter, and Harry. If Newspaper Spider-man taught me anything, it's that Spider-man will ruin any and all relationships no matter what.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:46
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Doctor Spaceman posted:That's increasingly less true though, given the rise of digital and the success of things like The Walking Dead and Saga in the trade / bookstore market. Yeah, but while comics are growing they will unlikely be as big as they were in their heyday again.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:39
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Comics were in newsstands, magazine shops, grocery stores and supermarkets. Hell a barber shop near me had a rack of comics when I was a kid. Them being available digitally isn't really picking up the slack because those digital outlets (Marvel app, comixology) just don't have the presence that seeing super cheap comics every where managed back in the day. You probably wouldn't even know those apps existed unless you were already spending money on comics, so the impulse comic buys are gone and entire generations of kids missed out on getting into comics because their parents randomly bought some while shopping.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:46
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Archie is the only company that really made the effort to stay in popular spaces. I picked up a lot of Archie and Sonic at grocery stores as a kid. I don't know why other comics don't try to get a wider distribution other than the fact that they dug themselves into this hole back in the 90s and they'd rather stay there than try something new (or old?). I've heard that there's a big dumb distributor monopoly, but I don't really know much about that.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:15
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yeah, but while comics are growing they will unlikely be as big as they were in their heyday again. Agreed, but they're definitely more accessible than they were a decade ago.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:17
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punk rebel ecks posted:I'd assume this is had a major part in comics declining. Too many stories to keep track of and readers not caring or bonding with the characters or world enough. I think that played a role but the main cause was that the collector's bubble burst in a bad way in the mid 90s and drove a lot of people away from the medium. Anyway, of course the halcyon days of Superman selling a million issues are never coming back, but some of that is because the world has changed and people have a thousand other forms of entertainment, many cheaper and offering more hours per dollar. Sci-fi pulp novels don't sell a billion copies anymore either. Anyway I hope you stick around. One caution, I've noticed that in general comics people are terrible at making suggestions for manga people, and it often ends up souring people on the whole deal. Like when ADTRW and BSS were trying to do that cultural exchange program with the two threads, the BSS manga suggestion thread is still active but the ADTRW comics thread went down in flames, probably partially because it opened with suggesting Transformers comics. Those particular comics are pretty alright but it's an odd footing to start on, it's like if the manga thread had an op pushing Super Sentai manga or something IDK. Of course this is all exacerbated by many comics fans thinking one size fits all suggestions are the way to go with everything. If you want some suggestions I'm willing to offer them but you'd have to tell me the kinds of things you like first.
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Oct 30, 2017 11:54
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