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Mimesweeper posted:Yeah, hang out in a Home Depot and ask anyone in the electrical aisle if they have some scrap #12 solid since you only need a bit, most places won't sell that little but I always have a bunch of wire in my truck and I'd be happy to help someone out with a little piece. I seem to recall Lowes selling it by the foot. Not that it's terribly cost effective, but if you can get a couple feet of 12-3 for $2, then no big deal. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Romex-SIMpull-12-3-Indoor-Non-Metallic-Jacket-Wire-By-the-Foot/4285589
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Oct 30, 2017 03:20
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About that lightswitch wiring- the 12 gauge wire that I bought seems to be a tiny bit thicker than the current wiring. The new, thicker wire has the white tape on it. Tough to see in the linked image, but the new wire definitely seems to be a bit thicker. Problem? Or is it possible that the builder used 14 gauge? melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 19:13
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melon cat posted:About that lightswitch wiring- the 12 gauge wire that I bought seems to be a tiny bit thicker than the current wiring. The new, thicker wire has the white tape on it. Really subtle size difference, but definitely different than what's already behind my walls. It's fine but you must remove that white tape. (Used to indicate it's a neutral wire, which it's not.) 14awg is standard for 15A circuits, so nothing is necessarily wrong because of it.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:19
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H110Hawk posted:It's fine but you must remove that white tape. (Used to indicate it's a neutral wire, which it's not.) 14awg is standard for 15A circuits, so nothing is necessarily wrong because of it. melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 19:39
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melon cat posted:Alright will do that. Thanks! Sorry to toss another follow-up question at you, but I also noticed that the new wire from Home Depot has much thinner insulation than the existing wiring behind the switch. The insulation's nearly 40% thinner. Any potential issues with this? No problems. The rating is what matters.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:41
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H110Hawk posted:No problems. The rating is what matters. melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 19:50
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Hopefully this is on topic, I live in Ohio, and want to know if there is a licensing bureau or something I should complain to about an electrician. They had several issues during construction, and I've found code violations with their work after moving back in. Also, somehow these violations passed both the rough-in and final inspection, should I contact the inspectors? I don’t want to deal with having anything re-inspected, but I think the inspectors should have caught at least some of the issues. Backstory: We had our house repaired after a fire, there was no structural damage, but the smoke damage required a bunch of the house to be gutted to the studs. The contractors were mostly good, with the exception of the electricians… They rewired a bunch of the master bathroom, which was on a single 20 amp circuit, with 14 gauge wire that is only rated for 15 amps. I pointed out that the wire was too small for the circuit, and they said they would fix it. Rough-in inspection passed shortly after, followed immediately by drywall, so I didn’t look over their fix. When it came time to install cabinets, they had to move some of the recessed lighting and receptacles that would have been covered up by cabinets, despite having draws of the layout before they started. The first final inspection failed, due to a bunch of electrical issues: GFCIs weren't wired correctly so donwstream receptacles weren't protected, outlets not working, no receptacle on a kitchen peninsula, etc. The 2nd inspection passed, and after moving in, we found out that their bathroom ‘fix’ was to split the bathroom circuit. The bathroom plugs are now on the 15 amp circuit that is also used for the kitchen lights - on the switched side of the circuit, so the plugs only work if they kitchen lights are on. We are living in a house with the following code violations I'm aware of: bathroom receptacles for the vanity are 15 amp instead of the required 20 amp, they aren’t on a dedicated bathroom circuit, and most importantly, the bathroom lighting still has 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit. I did check the latter to see if they had replaced the breaker or the wiring. The code violations won’t be too difficult to fix, and I’ll do it myself if the insurance company won’t cover a new electrician. Naturally though, I’m really unhappy with an electrician repeatedly screwing up basic things, and don't think they should be doing electrical work. Some bonus irony: the original 12 gauge wire in the house was white, this prompted the white electrician to explain to me that they color-code wire by gauge now “so that Mexicans can wire houses”. This was before I discovered he had done the work in the bathroom with the wrong gauge.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:35
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Sir_Lagsalot posted:Hopefully this is on topic, I live in Ohio, and want to know if there is a licensing bureau or something I should complain to about an electrician. State contractors licensing board and your insurance company both want to hear about this. Your insurance company likely provides as very large guarantee on their work and pointing out these flaws to them should get it repaired, including all "hassle" (holes in walls, paint, moving your stuff for access, etc.) No further deductible is required as you have yet to be made "whole" from your loss. Start with insurance, once it's all done contact the state and your city inspector. Go easy on the city inspector, you have to live with this person for the next N years.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:40
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Insurance is already hearing about it, I'd just rather fix it myself if their solution is to have the original guy back in. Talking to the inspectors would be more in the idea of giving feedback than complaining, I'm not mad at them I just think they should know. Edit: insurance has agreed to have me get it fixed and send them the bill. Sir_Lagsalot fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 18:17
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The receptacles are actually ok, assuming they are gfci protected where required. 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit are OK. 14ga wire on a 20A breaker is not OK, but that is easily fixed by swapping to a 15A breaker.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:33
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I bought a house a month or so ago, and had the bright idea to tear out the 1960's cabinets that were installed and replace them with some decent cabinetry in a like-for-like exchange. Well, as luck would have it, the loving dick-bags decided to install the cabinets directly to the studs without any sheetrock, plaster, or any coverings whatsoever behind the cabinets. While the HVAC guys were at the house replacing the AC and furnace, code enforcement showed up because there was a problem with them pulling the correct permits, so I got to have a code-enforcing cop look in and see the studs in the walls. What originally started as a like-for-like, no-permits required effort has now become a general construction permit, with the whole gamut of inspections to come!  That said, I'm reading up on the applicable codes (NEC 2014 so, uh, no surprises here) and while I'm solid on what needs to happen in 90% of the wiring in the kitchen, I do have a few weird questions: 1) NEC states that a house should have electrical outlets available on the front and back of the homes, so I'm adding an outlet to the carport with a dedicated 20A circuit. I'd like to recess it for aesthetic reasons, and I have generic vinyl siding on the house which is pretty much directly accessible from the backside via the newfound hole in the kitchen. The "correct" method I'm reading is to get a new work box, mount it to the studs between the kitchen and the siding on the outside, and cut a hole to fit the new work box. Then, add some caulking around the new work box, add the while-in-use cover on the outside (also being careful to add a little sealant to keep the water from seeping in between the cover/house siding), slap in a GFCI and call it a day. Sound about right? 2) Also, I was planning to do this later, but with me already buying the permits I would have to literally finish the sheetrock to get the permit finalized, then tear the sheetrock down again to mount the wiring for an EV charger, not to mention paying the permit fees again. The charger I bought is hardwired (NEC states that plug-in units are allowed a maximum wire length of 12", and installing a NEMA 14-50 in a carport seemed like the World's Dumbest Idea™ so hardwiring it is) and I know that a weatherproof junction box is on the menu, but I'm not sure what the best way to run the cable to it is. The breaker is in the basement and I can drill a hole between the studs to get the 6/3 up to the carport level, but after that there are two options: A) mount the junction box to the siding, drill a hole in the back of the box, then run the power cable up to the junction box between the siding and the sheetrock, or B) mount some conduit on the outside of the siding and run the cable through there, entering the junction box through the bottom instead of the back. Code seems to be against drilling holes inside junction boxes to mount them to a wall, but I couldn't find anything about drilling a hole in the back of it to run wiring. However, B seems like the answer here but I don't want to make things unnecessarily complex. Also, any general advice on things to expect when working with an inspector would be great. I'm labeling the ever-living gently caress out of every goddamned black and red wire I can find, and I'm going to pray for mercy from her as the prior owners installed NM and not NM-B in a kitchen electrical upgrade that was done maybe 10 years ago. The electrician I called in to get an estimate told me that sometimes they're sticklers about that, and boy-howdy I'm not looking forward to re-running NM-B throughout this whole goddamned place. 
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Nov 1, 2017 03:27
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Ripoff posted:
For 1, pretty much. Cut in boxes either have tabs that fasten to the siding or have screws to mount to a stud, so size and place opening for size and type of box. Can't remember if it was 2014 or 17, but exterior covers must be stamped "extra duty" which rules out alot of cheap ones that are still commonly sold. Oh, make sure it's a WRGFI (weather-resistant). For 2, I'd probably put in a junction box whether I ran conduit or not. Don't have my code book in front of me, but you can fasten metal boxes wherever since the box itself will be grounded. You can't have raised screws in a plastic box, which is why the new plastic boxes have recessed screw holes. The concern is that an energized non-grounded screw put into a wood stud could cause a fire. Sounds like kind of a bullshit situation, sorry. Can't imagine you'd have to replace any old wiring unless you're altering the circuits they're on. The old NM (non NM-B) just has a little less insulation from what I understand, not a huge issue except for can light type of heat situations. edit: saw that kitchen was remodeled 10 years ago, you wouldn't be able to get the old nm then. not sure how things are run in 2. Will the junction box be outside? Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 05:46
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Blackbeer posted:For 1, pretty much. Cut in boxes either have tabs that fasten to the siding or have screws to mount to a stud, so size and place opening for size and type of box. Can't remember if it was 2014 or 17, but exterior covers must be stamped "extra duty" which rules out alot of cheap ones that are still commonly sold. Oh, make sure it's a WRGFI (weather-resistant). 1 is already taken care of - I got the latest and greatest in outdoor "don't shock the poo poo out of yourself" technology. As for 2, I did a hilariously lovely job explaining. Long story short is this: I want to install the junction box pictured below on the siding outside the house, and want to understand what the best way to run the wiring through it is. Option A (which is the easiest but I worry may be incorrect) would be to mount the box to the wall using the provided mounting tabs, then drill a hole through the back of the box and siding (the side mounted to the wall where I pointed with the screwdriver), run the 6/3 NM-B through the hole in the wall, and secure the wire within the wall on the studs like I was running any ordinary Romex run. Quick and easy, and as far as I know OK for "regular" wire runs, but something about it strikes me as rushed and not well-thought-out.  Option B would be to mount the junction box to the wall, but instead of drilling through the back of it (and the wall behind), just drill a hole in the bottom of the box and run conduit to the bottom. The bottom part of the conduit will end up poking through the bottom of the siding to prevent the majority of the electrical wire from sitting inside the wall. So it'd look like this, except for the aforementioned junction box instead of the weatherproof box (and obviously a second hole where the weatherproof connector comes in from the EVSE):  To make a long story short I just can't find an existing, to-code example of a junction box being used with a hole in the back of it while mounted to the wall for a wire run, and I want to make sure I'm not creating a hazardous situation. That said, it may also be that most external junction box installations are for people who don't have the
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Nov 2, 2017 02:13
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Do you know about the Arlington InBox's? http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/inbox/vertical-low-profile-in-box-for-retrofit-siding-construction/
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Nov 2, 2017 02:23
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HycoCam posted:Do you know about the Arlington InBox's? http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/inbox/vertical-low-profile-in-box-for-retrofit-siding-construction/ I do now! However, the EVSE has to be a junction box because I have to hard-wire the damned thing. That said I will be looking into this for the power outlets in the front and rear, that's cool as hell.
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Nov 2, 2017 02:54
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Ripoff posted:To make a long story short I just can't find an existing, to-code example of a junction box being used with a hole in the back of it while mounted to the wall for a wire run, and I want to make sure I'm not creating a hazardous situation. That said, it may also be that most external junction box installations are for people who don't have the Sorry, gotcha, thanks for the info. I believe your fine with going in to the back of the box, if you have a specific code violation in mind please let me know. As long as you're not violating manufacturer's instructions on the box, you're fine. Local jurisdiction may vary on whether that connection (flush to the siding) is weather-resistant or not, so you may have to stub a piece of conduit or non-metallic flexible conduit in the back rather than using a romex connector and caulking everything. The only thing to consider with that box would be fill. I know w/ #6's it needs to be at least 2 1/8" deep (think yours is). Article 314 (2017 but should be same for 2014) for reference. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 03:07
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Ripoff posted:Code seems to be against drilling holes inside junction boxes to mount them to a wall, but I couldn't find anything about drilling a hole in the back of it to run wiring. So use 2 boxes. Mount an old work box inside your siding wall, then mount an outdoor extension adapter box to that. Bam, you now have legal outdoor knockouts to hard wire a charger. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 06:05
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Anyone ever heard of any code compliance issues where a municipality has adopted an earlier version of the code with a section has since been removed for being dangerous, and the newer code compliant section is against the older code, forcing bad practices?
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Nov 3, 2017 02:08
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Ripoff posted:
option A is the proper way in this situation. romex cannot be run outside in conduit (like in option B) but it can penetrate the siding to go outside directly into a weatherproof box, like the one you purchased. those PVC j-boxes purposely don't come with knock outs in them so you can drill holes where you need them to be located, back of the box included. that box does look a little small for working with 6/3 romex, though. without knowing it's exact dimensions it's hard to say...but 6/3 can be a bitch to work with and the more room you give yourself the easier your life is going to be.
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Nov 3, 2017 05:55
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Ripoff posted:To make a long story short I just can't find an existing, to-code example of a junction box being used with a hole in the back of it while mounted to the wall for a wire run, and I want to make sure I'm not creating a hazardous situation. That said, it may also be that most external junction box installations are for people who don't have the crocodile posted:option A is the proper way in this situation. romex cannot be run outside in conduit (like in option B) but it can penetrate the siding to go outside directly into a weatherproof box, like the one you purchased. those PVC j-boxes purposely don't come with knock outs in them so you can drill holes where you need them to be located, back of the box included. that box does look a little small for working with 6/3 romex, though. without knowing it's exact dimensions it's hard to say...but 6/3 can be a bitch to work with and the more room you give yourself the easier your life is going to be. I looked up the box part number, and it is too small. Get a 6x6 and save yourself some hassle.
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Nov 3, 2017 13:57
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I attached some very basic light sockets (E27 thread) to wires in my new home. The wires and the contact in the sockets have power when I test it with the screw driver. I put in different LED bulbs, equivalent to 40W and 60W. Not one of them lights up. What could be the reason? E: halogen bulbs don't work either. Maybe the n-wire is broken somehow, but in the hallway where the light was already installed, it works... pidan fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 11:33
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The circuit is open. Can you turn the power off and take a picture of your wiring at the fixture?
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Nov 4, 2017 14:10
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pidan posted:I attached some very basic light sockets (E27 thread) to wires in my new home. The wires and the contact in the sockets have power when I test it with the screw driver. If you have a multimeter, test the voltage between the contacts. If you have a loose connection somewhere you'll see a lower-than-expected voltage. Incandescents will "work" to some degree as long as there are electrons flowing, but LEDs (and maybe halogens, for different reasons obv) are much pickier about their power.
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Nov 4, 2017 14:36
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pidan posted:I attached some very basic light sockets (E27 thread) to wires in my new home. The wires and the contact in the sockets have power when I test it with the screw driver. Did you mash down the tab at the bottom of the socket so bad that it can't make contact with the bulb? That can happen with older sockets and you hulked out when turning in the old one. The fix for that is turning off the power and bending that tab back up ever so slightly with a flathead screwdriver.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:14
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Thanks a lot for your help with my lights witches, guys. Everything's good and running. A general wiring question, though. How many times can you re-bend copper wiring before it breaks apart/gets dangerous? Just asking because the homebuilders installed the old switch upside down, so I ended up re-bending the exposed copper wiring so it would re-thread onto the lightswitch terminals properly (since I installed it right-side up like it should have loving been).  Also, imagine my surprise when I saw an unexpected orange glow behind the lightswitch. Thought my poo poo was on fire until I realized that it was a feature for when the light switch was turned off. \/ Works for me. 
melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 19:06
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In my experience it can take a lot of abuse before it breaks but you could always trim off the stressed copper and make a new bend further back, or add a tail. It's most likely fine though, if it didn't break while you were working on it and the connections are all solid it's not going to break sitting in the wall.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:08
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melon cat posted:Thanks a lot for your help with my lights witches, guys. Everything's good and running. What are those other 2 red wires just chillin out? Is this more of your 4-way why not burn your house down it's simpler wiring? If you want to get a sense for how much abuse it can take, grab a scrap, strip it an inch, scuff/knick it up with some needle nose, then sit there loving with it until it looks brittle. As the other poster said, it's a lot for 14/12/10awg.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:32
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kid sinister posted:Did you mash down the tab at the bottom of the socket so bad that it can't make contact with the bulb? That can happen with older sockets and you hulked out when turning in the old one. The fix for that is turning off the power and bending that tab back up ever so slightly with a flathead screwdriver. We did try bending the contact but it did not help. The sockets and bulbs are new. Hubis posted:If you have a multimeter, test the voltage between the contacts. If you have a loose connection somewhere you'll see a lower-than-expected voltage. Incandescents will "work" to some degree as long as there are electrons flowing, but LEDs (and maybe halogens, for different reasons obv) are much pickier about their power. We didn't have a meter with us. We also weren't able to test if incandescent bulbs would work. But we attached the socket and bulb to the cables of the lamps in the hallway, which do work, and the bulb lit up. So the socket and bulb are not at fault. angryrobots posted:The circuit is open. Can you turn the power off and take a picture of your wiring at the fixture? I can't take a picture, but it's just three thin wires coming out of the wall: Black (has current), blue (no current) and green wire (ground). Screwdriver confirmed this. This also affects four different places with wires for lamps in four different rooms.
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Nov 4, 2017 20:28
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So this is a new home and new wiring, and the builders left capped off wires in the boxes for the lights, and you are now installing the lights? Testing with a meter would be ideal to distinguish between a no-voltage and under-voltage condition. Do you know if the 4 locations effected are the only ones on the circuit? The multiple sites points to a problem upstream at or near the panel. I would bet on either a loose hot connection at the panel causing undervoltage or a disconnected neutral at the panel. Don't try to go into the panel without a meter and better yet make the installer fix it because that's their fuckup.
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Nov 4, 2017 21:34
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shame on an IGA posted:So this is a new home and new wiring, and the builders left capped off wires in the boxes for the lights, and you are now installing the lights? It's not a new building, someone lived there until a few weeks ago and presumably the lights worked for them. So I suspect that maybe some switch was flipped or some part of the electric circuit failed. I don't know which outlets are on the same circuits (the fuse box is not labeled), but one of the lights is in the bathroom so I suspect it must be separate. If a fuse had blown there should be no current in the wires. But there is. We found a current "behind" the lamp on the neutral wire when it was turned on, but I didn't personally check this. Could there be current, but not enough of it? Is there something that could cause that? There are also two fuses next to the electricity meter, and they look quite different so I suspect one has been replaced. Could it be a bad fuse?
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Nov 4, 2017 21:55
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pidan posted:It's not a new building, someone lived there until a few weeks ago and presumably the lights worked for them. So I suspect that maybe some switch was flipped or some part of the electric circuit failed. I don't know which outlets are on the same circuits (the fuse box is not labeled), but one of the lights is in the bathroom so I suspect it must be separate. Are you literally measuring "current" by making a spark with your screw driver? Stop and get a multimeter like several people have suggested.
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Nov 4, 2017 22:00
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H110Hawk posted:Are you literally measuring "current" by making a spark with your screw driver? Stop and get a multimeter like several people have suggested. We're not doing anything weird with the screwdriver, it's one like this:  I'll take measurements with a proper current measuring device as soon as I can find one.
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Nov 4, 2017 22:03
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pidan posted:We're not doing anything weird with the screwdriver, it's one like this: OK I take back the snarky half of my post. Either way you are into multimeter territory. Next is pictures and labels, look to melon cat's posts for inspiration.
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Nov 4, 2017 22:31
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H110Hawk posted:What are those other 2 red wires just chillin out? Is this more of your 4-way why not burn your house down it's simpler wiring? melon cat fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 03:48
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We took a current measuring device to the house and the green wire is the null wire. Is it safe to assume the blue is the ground? Or should we try to get it rewired? There's no current between black and green, but the measuring device flickers a bit. E: also, if we had the black wire connected to the ground wire through the lamp for two days (switched on but not actually shining), could there be any trouble from that? pidan fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 19:48
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pidan posted:We took a current measuring device to the house and the green wire is the null wire. Is it safe to assume the blue is the ground? Or should we try to get it rewired? There's no current between black and green, but the measuring device flickers a bit. In the EU, black is phase 2, blue is neutral and green is ground. If you're not picking up a circuit with the neutral or the ground, then you need to check both of their connections up the branch. Where is the other end of that cable?
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Nov 6, 2017 20:42
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kid sinister posted:In the EU, black is phase 2, blue is neutral and green is ground. If you're not picking up a circuit with the neutral or the ground, then you need to check both of their connections up the branch. Where is the other end of that cable? Thank you! The black wire is phase, the green is neutral. We connected the green wire where the blue one should go and now the lamps work. The blue one is a current free mystery wire at this point. The green wire was actually taped off / covered in paint for two of the lamps, which made us more confident that it's the ground wire. But maybe the painters did that without checking. pidan fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 20:47
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pidan posted:Thank you! The black wire is phase, the green is neutral. We connected the green wire where the blue one should go and now the lamps work. The blue one is a current free mystery wire at this point. It shouldn't be an issue if you were temporarily using the ground for a return path instead of the neutral. Both the ground and neutral are attached to each other at your panel. The difference is that ground is only used during shorts, so that it's safe to have big, exposed metal pieces of equipment attached to that ground wire and the user won't get shocked. If that big metal case were attached to neutral, then it is possible under certain circumstances for the user to get shocked since that neutral could be energized, either by that device itself or something else on that circuit.
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Nov 6, 2017 20:54
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Please read what kid sinister posted - you have an open neutral and are using the equipment grounding conductor to complete the circuit. You need to trace the circuit back until you find where the neutral is open.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:20
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angryrobots posted:Please read what kid sinister posted - you have an open neutral and are using the equipment grounding conductor to complete the circuit. So you're saying that the green wire is the ground after all? There is no equipment, only three wires. The black one is the phase as confirmed by our equipment. We can't get current to flow from black to blue, but it flows as expected from black to green, if green is the neutral wire that should be blue. I assumed they just used the wrong color wire, could we really close a circuit with the ground wire? (And if so, is that bad?) I guess we'll have to talk to the people who lived here before us, maybe they can tell us if they used the wires the same way.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:42
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