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RabidWeasel posted:I do still think that the game is better now (with the exception of the parts of the map which fall into the Ming Exclusion Zone) due to AI and other general gameplay improvements, but the actual DLC content has been getting less interesting as the new systems are becoming more and more 'bolted on' feeling. Like, development was a total rethink of base tax, and estates were a completely new concept in how you manage your provinces (though in actual gameplay they end up not being terribly exciting), wheras ages are literally just another "build up currency and exchange it for bonuses" system and edicts are essentially slightly tweaked province decisions from EU3. sure the AI and general improvements are nice, but I just had much more fun and many more "one more year..." moments that turned into 5 hours later still saying "one more year" back then. Now I play the game for a few minutes, decide I can't be hosed with it, and quit again. edit: actually is it still possible to just opt into an older version of the game and play art of war era eu4
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Oct 30, 2017 12:35
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You can play old patches via the steam betas feature. The AI improvements in the last few patches have been the only thing keeping me playing the game; the hyper passive AI was totally killing it for me (and I am very excited to see the new 1.23 AI with a stronger focus on growing its economy through buildings).
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Oct 30, 2017 12:48
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RabidWeasel posted:You can play old patches via the steam betas feature. The AI improvements in the last few patches have been the only thing keeping me playing the game; the hyper passive AI was totally killing it for me (and I am very excited to see the new 1.23 AI with a stronger focus on growing its economy through buildings). Does that roll back everything? I heard there were issues with it in the past. And yeah I'm sure I'll try the new ai again
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Oct 30, 2017 12:56
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Was going to wait until the new patch was out but was really eager to get a game in. Playing the Aztecs for the first time since institutions has been pretty fun so far, it’s 1530 and colonialism just spawned though, so it may be a while before I “westernize”. And I was having fun...until I went to war with a Mayan State. I had 10 more discipline, more morale better tech, comparable leader and army size. When the first battle started, I made sure to even get defenders advantage on hills. Who won the battles? Well they did obviously since I rolled 4 zeros in a row and they never rolled below a 7. Despite really loving this game, the basic combat in this game is still such massive rear end. Especially considering how much has been added in expansions with combat itself being tweaked but not overhauled.
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Oct 30, 2017 15:59
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Drone posted:As much as I think the DLC model (which borders on software-as-a-service) is not a bad thing, I think it's going to bite Paradox in the rear end real hard when it comes time to make the next sequels for the current DLC-focused games (CK2, EU4, HOI4). Granted that time is probably several years down the road, but at some point the Clausewitz engine will need a replacement, and Paradox will be forced to somehow pare back all of these features into a single $39 title, which will be impossible to do. I dunno, people were saying the same about EU3 vs EU4 for a while but I don't think it actually affected sales that much except for the most hardcore among the Paradox fans- and EU4's sold more than a million copies, so I dunno if those players are actually as representative of the normal player as the impression we get makes them out to be. Honestly I think going down this path until they squeeze the game dry, without consolidating the stuff properly, might actually be a good thing (for Paradox, maybe not us) in terms of making a sequel. It'll be much easier to sell it as a huge sweeping change if there's genuinely tons of systems that have been consolidated well. Plus I do think there's some big changes they can still do for an EU5 that will feel huge. Revamping combat, colonialism, trade- all things that have been pretty untouched since launch or EU3. Dynamic trade especially (and making the AI take advantage of trade more) would make for a pretty different game. The whole design philosophy as well- my impression is they've been going to a huge amount of effort to make the game less Eurocentric, in a way that I don't think was on their radar when the game was first being developed. So a new title with that in mind from the get-go could be a big change. Also other stuff like areas taking a lot of the slack away from provinces (which I think they've seemed to be doing a bit of now, but maybe a whole new game would be where they could take advantage of it totally, maybe even for better performance too if a lot of the tasks are offloaded into the fewer-in-number areas). There are lots of places they can go, and especially if they focus more on regional DLC as EU4 gets older so they don't have to do these core system changes that they could be working into an EU5 then I don't think moving forward in the series is gonna be as hopeless as a lot of people say. SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Does that roll back everything? I heard there were issues with it in the past. It works just fine in my experience, but then I never had any issues with it before so I dunno. Only annoying thing is it wipes your minimap buttons if you go back to the patch before they revamped those.
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Oct 30, 2017 18:20
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Does that roll back everything? I heard there were issues with it in the past. Can't you just turn off all expansions after common sense and still play basically the same game? Or do you have some kind of preference for the old fort system?
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Oct 30, 2017 18:47
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Dance Officer posted:Can't you just turn off all expansions after common sense and still play basically the same game? Or do you have some kind of preference for the old fort system? I don't actually know if I prefer the old fort system, probably would rather have the new one, but I imagine there were a lot of changes without the expansions since then. Development and stuff right.
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Oct 30, 2017 18:55
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't actually know if I prefer the old fort system, probably would rather have the new one, but I imagine there were a lot of changes without the expansions since then. Development and stuff right. Development instead of base tax was in the same patch as the fort system. Other than that, the only super major patch change since then I can think of off the top of my head is institutions.
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Oct 30, 2017 18:58
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For me the biggest thing holding EU4 back right now is how much micromanagement is required for a game of such a massive scale, particularly when it comes to the military. That's the kind of paradigm shift I'd like to see in EU5. For now at least they could apply a bandaid solution and just let you give armies AI missions like you can with navies.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:17
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I like MEIOU and Taxes its great I've learned it this is how EU should've been, minus the performance issues and national tree counting
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Oct 30, 2017 20:49
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EU4's country management married with Vicky 2 pops, CK2 characters, HoI combat and Stellaris'... Dunno, aligment system..?
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Oct 30, 2017 20:49
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Why would you wan't HoI combat in any other period but WW2? Or CK2 characters outside of Feudalism? EU4 + Vikky 2 is pretty much MEIOU and its a little crazy it does the whole "this country is transitioning from feudalism to colonialism/imperialism" way better than EU4 stock does
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Oct 30, 2017 20:51
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Paradox would find a way! Plus drawing arrows on maps and watching your guys do their thing is fun. Fiddly province hopping isn't particularly.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:53
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Drawing arrows and pressing the win button actually is not fun
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Oct 30, 2017 20:54
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Nuh uh.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:55
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yuh huh
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Oct 30, 2017 20:56
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Koramei posted:Plus I do think there's some big changes they can still do for an EU5 that will feel huge. Revamping combat, colonialism, trade- all things that have been pretty untouched since launch or EU3. Dynamic trade especially (and making the AI take advantage of trade more) would make for a pretty different game. Koramei posted:Also other stuff like areas taking a lot of the slack away from provinces (which I think they've seemed to be doing a bit of now, but maybe a whole new game would be where they could take advantage of it totally, maybe even for better performance too if a lot of the tasks are offloaded into the fewer-in-number areas). Phi230 posted:it does the whole "this country is transitioning from feudalism to colonialism/imperialism" way better than EU4 stock does
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Oct 30, 2017 21:07
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I mean in MEIOU, at least in my France game, I started as a poo poo farming medieval hellscape that couldn't balance a budget or do poo poo really fast forward 300 years, I'm making bank from the colonies and have a standing army 3x the size of anyone else in Europe and unified France (annexing Provence last I played) I'm really a renaissance France now, I alternate between beating up the Iberians and beating up the HRE
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Oct 30, 2017 21:09
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Trin Tragula finally brought up some China changes: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cradle-of-civilization-and-ming.1052229/&sdpDevPosts=1 pretty disappointing though, he says what happens depends on how the rest of the world is doing but in my experience China really doesn't care about that. I guess it could have an effect though, we'll see. A Buttery Pastry posted:A big thing which touches on all of these is really the strategic layer of combat. If your ability to actually wage war in a region was to a great degree dependent on your trade presence, it'd create a very different dynamic for colonization. In the Americas, the Caribbean would become very important for establishing a foothold in the Americas which you can then leverage into mainland conquest, since you'd need to invest much less to get a nice profitable presence - encouraging a historical colonization pattern through game mechanics. Similarly, opening up a trade presence in Asia would be the first step towards conquest, as opposed to massive conquest being a way to open up trade. More to do with colonization and trade empires and stuff is my biggest wish for this series. It's the era of European global expansion, where most of the major European powers competed for (and had their fortunes decided by) incredibly lucrative trade, but so many players are content to just sit on their asses in Europe the entire game while ignoring everything else. Paradox has modeled the whole world in excruciating detail, but for the most part they all just act as discrete regions without too much interaction. Whereas in history this was the era of globalization, where the discovery of the Americas had enormous ripple effects over the entirety of Eurasia. Asian trade is also just piss poor until suddenly it's extremely overpowered after you've spent centuries investing in it; your comment about how opening trade there should lead to more is spot on, it's completely backwards, plus the AI isn't really capable of doing it. Eurasian trade stuff done with some kind of peacetime mechanic, i.e. without directly shipping over a hundred thousand European line infantry into Zanzibar, would both make more sense and maybe mean the AI could actually do it.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:21
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DDRJake has also mentioned that China won't accept tributary requests from very distant countries anymore. (He remarked on this in a stream after noticing that he could become a tributary as the Great Horde in like 1450) I dunno how many of ming's AI tributaries ask to be one instead of being asked, so I dunno how impactful this will really be. This will only reduce tributary numbers if the AI actually asks to become one. My fear is that the only thing this will do is make it impossible for outsiders to become a tributary if they want to declare war on other tributaries without intervention.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:28
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I messed around with modding it a bit, and there's a few problems with fixing the Ming that aren't immediately apparent. Like, do you know how taking the Mandate is a trap? The AI doesn't seem to understand this, and they really cannot handle being celestial emperor without the Ming's base. So you end up with things like "Japan defeats Ming and takes 4 provinces and the mandate. Japan is now boned." To say nothing of the fact that just causing the Ming to decline properly without some kind of direct hit to them is kind of a chore in itself, since the AI doesn't really seem to like rebelling against them/attacking them in their weakness, so you need them to have something like several doomstacks of rebels and almost no army for them to consider it. Put simply, it seems like the AI in its current state isn't really capable of handling the situation in East Asia.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:47
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really queer Christmas posted:Was going to wait until the new patch was out but was really eager to get a game in. Playing the Aztecs for the first time since institutions has been pretty fun so far, it’s 1530 and colonialism just spawned though, so it may be a while before I “westernize”. What was the size difference in armies? I mean, freak losses did happen historically. It's annoying, but it's realistic. Not every battle is Caesar at Alesia. AnoHito posted:Put simply, it seems like the AI in its current state isn't really capable of handling the situation in East Asia. Well, that's kinda historically accurate in a roundabout way.
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Oct 31, 2017 00:41
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Rapner posted:kinda historically accurate in a roundabout way. New thread title.
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Oct 31, 2017 00:52
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im an idiot and i ruined a chievo run Was sitting around as a horde too peaceful for too long while i developed a province up to 30 so I could sell it to a neighbor, conquer it back, then raze it. Turns out the AI does know how to raze things because by the time i got it back it was not at 30 dev.
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Oct 31, 2017 04:05
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Fister Roboto posted:For me the biggest thing holding EU4 back right now is how much micromanagement is required for a game of such a massive scale, particularly when it comes to the military. That's the kind of paradigm shift I'd like to see in EU5. For now at least they could apply a bandaid solution and just let you give armies AI missions like you can with navies. Hoi4 wants to have a word with you
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Oct 31, 2017 05:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:DDRJake has also mentioned that China won't accept tributary requests from very distant countries anymore. (He remarked on this in a stream after noticing that he could become a tributary as the Great Horde in like 1450) This only fixes the player strategy of becoming immune to coalitions/dows by becoming a Ming tributary. I can see why they would do that, since it was really easy to abuse in India an the middle east. The event frequency wont fix anything and this diplo change wont either. Asia will still be a boring poo poo fest and it's just ever so slightly harder to become a tributary so you can start eating tributaries. At this point they should just change it so that every tributaries liberty desire goes up based on the total amount of base tax from all tributaries. If Ming doesn't acquire new lands but simply spheres everything, it should become unstable and tributaries should band against them. Paradox' current approach goes into the "implement it in a DLC and forget it exists" theme we've been seeing. Like they feel they need to spend all their time on new features so they can sell something.
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Oct 31, 2017 07:26
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Dance Officer posted:Hoi4 wants to have a word with you Yeah, I'd love to have something like HoI4's system.
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Oct 31, 2017 07:51
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in hoi4 you're nothing more than a division designer who clicks attack
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Oct 31, 2017 09:12
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Hello Paradox people, I have not played this game in many years and am having to learn everything again. I am a bit perplexed as to how to work with the state system. I'm playing as Muscovy who starts the game with 8/8 states and a few territories. I've smashed Novgorod and taken some of their valuable provinces, however each one has a 75% minimum autonomy because they are territories. So how do I become a big blob? From what I've read you don't get more states until admin tech 8. So it would seem then that taking new provinces is not going to be profitable for a fair while. Would it be beneficial to turn some of my lesser value provinces back into territories so I can make my newer and more valuable provinces states? Sorry if I've overlooked something, I have no idea what I'm doing.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:19
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Is Ming and tributaries still bullshit? Are they fixing it with the next expansion? It's the deciding factor on if I'l buying it or not.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:32
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krampster2 posted:Hello Paradox people, I have not played this game in many years and am having to learn everything again. I am a bit perplexed as to how to work with the state system. It's worth looking in advance at the regions you're conquering so that you don't waste a state slot on some crappy 15 dev total area, but usually you don't want to swap between states and territories much as it costs extra admin points. Node posted:Is Ming and tributaries still bullshit? Are they fixing it with the next expansion? It's the deciding factor on if I'l buying it or not. Probably but they have confirmed to have nerfed Ming a tiny bit. I'd guess we will be getting full patch notes next week so I suppose we can see if they've done anything to make tributaries actually work in a non-gamebreaking way.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:37
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I keep getting events during every hostile siege telling me to give up. Sometimes multiple times on the same fort level 0, 1 month siege. I can't find any evidence that I'm in a disaster, nor is there a country modifier that's explaining this. What's going on?
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Oct 31, 2017 11:20
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krampster2 posted:Hello Paradox people, I have not played this game in many years and am having to learn everything again. I am a bit perplexed as to how to work with the state system. You should still blob, you just won't get as much benefit until you can state those provinces. And that's okay. The administrative idea group gives some extra states and is excellent anyway
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Oct 31, 2017 11:28
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krampster2 posted:Hello Paradox people, I have not played this game in many years and am having to learn everything again. I am a bit perplexed as to how to work with the state system. Once you form Russia, you become an empire instead of a duchy and that gives a bunch more states. It also fired events that give you a large number of permanent claims in the south as well as the powerful Siberian Frontier ability, which lets you colonize Siberia with no colonists and just a handful of diplomatic points in like half a century.
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Oct 31, 2017 11:32
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Xinder posted:im an idiot and i ruined a chievo run Serves you right you cheater. Raze Beijing like any true barbarian with that chievo.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:52
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Thanks for the help guys. I'll keep on expanding then and try to form Russia
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Oct 31, 2017 14:31
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Don't forget to press the Strelsky button, it's overpowered. In general Russian nations are very good right now, if you own the DLC.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:50
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new dev diary on some online fixes: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/eu4-development-diary-31st-of-october-2017.1052692/ apparently hot join might actually work now. also he teased one of the new buildings; apparently there are gonna be 2 in this patch:  in other news, it's the 500th anniversary of the reformation. I haven't done an HRE game in a long-rear end time so I guess I have a task for tonight
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Oct 31, 2017 16:48
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Valiantman posted:Once you form Russia, you become an empire instead of a duchy and that gives a bunch more states. It also fired events that give you a large number of permanent claims in the south as well as the powerful Siberian Frontier ability, which lets you colonize Siberia with no colonists and just a handful of diplomatic points in like half a century. It'll also let you colonize Africa if you can carve a path down there!
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Oct 31, 2017 17:34
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Can someone recommend me a start? I'm kind of sick of europe and want a new challenge. I like unifying cultural groups but I dislike colonizing if that helps
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Oct 31, 2017 17:42
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