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sassassin posted:I vastly prefer the "teching up" process to be more about increasing stats than unlocking access to units full stop and wish they'd go further with it. It makes sense in Rome to not get late-empire units until late in a campaign, but with Warhammer's variety it's a crime to restrict access to cool poo poo until you've got tier 4 and 5 cities. I hate unlocking units through tech as well. I honestly think the current system gates them too much. The high tech units you start with are cool and Id like to see that system kinda extended. (sidenote: a mod idea Ive been toying with is some of the high tech units are available at much lower tier but capped in number and with a penalty to upkeep costs. hitting the current required tier/building just removes the cap and upkeep penalty.) I like the buffs but I think theyre just too strong and theres too many sources and not enough attention was paid to their effect on balance. Look at the impact of Honest Steel for instance, 2 swordsmen going at each other are an even match. Add Honest Steel to 1, now one swordsman is hitting 43% of the time and the other is only hitting 27%. The swordsman with honest steel completely destroys his opponent and would have it go down to the wire if a 2nd came at him. This is from just 1 source, theres a bunch of other possible buffs that any human will stack and that the AI never will to the same extent. The AI battle difficulty bonus that alot of people hate because it feels unfair is literally much much weaker then the kind of stat gap that the AI has to face for most of the game. Besides battle difficulty going down, theres also all kinds of internal factional balance and other issues that creep in. Like melee buffs tend to cancel out if both units are equally upgraded but ranged buffs dont. So ranged becomes proportionally more powerful compared to melee since its getting more damage over more range and melee tends to lack countering buffs or have them in lesser amounts (theres no shield buffs, missile resistance is uncommon and of lesser amounts then ranged damage increases, and range buffs are greater then speed buffs)
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Oct 30, 2017 18:18
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Oh man I assume you guys have been doing this for ages but I just found out moving your Underground army onto an enemy forces you into an underground battle and it's amazing. Just give my Skaven artillery that big long map with almost no room for flanking, yes please. Edit: Welp here's Chaos and they're burning me to the ground. Just gotta hope I can kill them and re-colonise before these loving lizards snipe the ruins. Pierson fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 18:30
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SickZip posted:I hate unlocking units through tech as well. I honestly think the current system gates them too much. The high tech units you start with are cool and Id like to see that system kinda extended. One thing I'd be interesting it trying is massively reduce the total levels for lords and heroes, slow xp gain substantially, and make most skill single-choice effects. (I have no idea how this would play out with casters, tbh, and don't really care at the moment.) The AI fails to really capitalize on skills because it tends to make them pretty scattershot, but there's really no advantage to not going all-in on a skill and maxing it out except for trying to maximize reaching capstone skills. A lot of skills would have to be rebalanced around this because a lot of the advantage of some skills is that they're good but cheap skill-wise (mounts, and the WH2 2nd stage redline buffs), but I think it'd help the AI a bit, simplify some balancing (because you either have the skill or you don't), and make getting a level a little more momentous rather than something you can do almost every other turn if you're trying. Doing it like that might also make it easier to have mutually exclusive skill choices, which I tend to like. You could also make skills come with some downsides, too, if you really wanted, though I'm not sure how I feel about that.
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Oct 30, 2017 18:35
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I'm hoping the next "historical title" they do is to add some historical title factions to the ME map. I know it's not warhammer lore, but gently caress it, would people actually be pissed if you could have samurai fighting vampires, rats, and dumbass elves? Or be Ceasar trying to one up the Franz with the literal roman empire?
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Oct 30, 2017 18:37
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:I'm hoping the next "historical title" they do is to add some historical title factions to the ME map. I know it's not warhammer lore, but gently caress it, would people actually be pissed if you could have samurai fighting vampires, rats, and dumbass elves? Or be Ceasar trying to one up the Franz with the literal roman empire? I'd pay hard cash for a DLC that adds a Roman Legion faction in the Border Princes area and a Revolutionary France Chaos Horde, but I guess I'd be satisfied with a mod.
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Oct 30, 2017 18:47
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Ravenfood posted:Two things on this: one thing about high-level units is that their upkeep costs can be really punishing. In some cases, its a lot better to disband a few cost-ineffective high-level units and get a lot more money per turn to help tech up faster, so I'm not sure earlier access to top-tier units would help much with that, but it'd be interesting to play with and I'd be interested to see what you came up with. By the time you can recruit swordmasters and phoenix guard you can pretty much afford full stacks of them. This is boring. Having risk/reward decisions to make over whether you can afford a big stonking centrepiece unit or two (and whether you have the time to train them) in the early game would make it a lot more fun and interesting.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:03
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sassassin posted:By the time you can recruit swordmasters and phoenix guard you can pretty much afford full stacks of them. This is boring. Having risk/reward decisions to make over whether you can afford a big stonking centrepiece unit or two (and whether you have the time to train them) in the early game would make it a lot more fun and interesting. Maybe give elite units slightly less upkeep generally but a stacking upkeep penalty the more of them you have in one army (either "elite" units total or per unit type)? Possibly with a varying amount of "free" units before they start counting towards that penalty?
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Oct 30, 2017 19:11
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sassassin posted:By the time you can recruit swordmasters and phoenix guard you can pretty much afford full stacks of them. This is boring. Having risk/reward decisions to make over whether you can afford a big stonking centrepiece unit or two (and whether you have the time to train them) in the early game would make it a lot more fun and interesting. I mean, I guess maybe if you expand crazy fast? Even then it's unlikely you've been able to consolidate to the point where your income is actually that high. For actual numbers I've been able to add a unit or two or Swordmasters to my main army around turn 30-40 for the most part and at that part of the game I would be able to afford maybe a single stack if I decided to use them as my infantry core. Phoenix Guard take a while longer but they're still expensive enough that you're definitely making a decision between fielding multiple stacks or having a single super-stack.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:12
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:I'm hoping the next "historical title" they do is to add some historical title factions to the ME map. I know it's not warhammer lore, but gently caress it, would people actually be pissed if you could have samurai fighting vampires, rats, and dumbass elves? Or be Ceasar trying to one up the Franz with the literal roman empire? My biggest concern would be that the historical factions would be so boring.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:22
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Hunt11 posted:My biggest concern would be that the historical factions would be so boring. Don’t worry glorious Cathay is coming in game 3
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Oct 30, 2017 19:40
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Where can i go to find modding tutorials and guides? I want Skrolk to have one of those giant bell mounts, but nobody else is doing it.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:45
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I'd love if armies had organization restrictions. Maybe not borrowed directly from the tabletop, and not 100% locked, but like if you had core/special/heavy/skirmish slots it'd at least help the AI out. And for the player you could use those powerful units earlier, like if you're sticking to army org their upkeep is lower, but you can break the org to recruit whatever, but just suffer upkeep penalties so you'd have to be rich to afford.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:45
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sassassin posted:By the time you can recruit swordmasters and phoenix guard you can pretty much afford full stacks of them. This is boring. Having risk/reward decisions to make over whether you can afford a big stonking centrepiece unit or two (and whether you have the time to train them) in the early game would make it a lot more fun and interesting. I wouldnt say full stacks but they sure arent special like when you have 1 in the early game. I was playing Grimdibal this weekend and the first 30 turns was the most fun ive had WTW. I was literally cackling as i roasted Orcs with his Irondrakes. In one battle, they were roasting the backline and a bunch of fleeing orcs recovered their morale and started charging back. This put them in a closing trap with hundreds of orcs on all sides and their escape was seriously nailbiting. I used focus crossbow fire to blow gaps in the orc mass and charged in dwarf warriors to hold it open while the Irondrakes ran for their lives. It seriously owned. Meanwhile my second stack was warriors + quarrelers + grudgethrower + naptime SickZip fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 19:46
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Imo remake Rome 2 except like the Siege of Carthage video instead of poo poo or make Medieval 3 Empire 2 except with the amount of cities and towns as a Napoleon campaign map, and extend it's timeline into the Pike and Shot era and add real functionality for mixed unit formations.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:49
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Nooooooooooo Shogun 3 exactly like Shogun 2, but with QoL improvements and cool battle ninjas that are actually cool
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Oct 30, 2017 19:51
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Rome 3 but it's actually Rome 1 HD remaster
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Oct 30, 2017 19:56
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SteelMentor posted:Trick-or-Queek Thorgrim BLOODbearer (newest devotee to the Cult of Khaine)
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Oct 30, 2017 19:56
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Warhammer but after The End Times. I'll see myself out.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:57
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Grombrindal's start is legit not only because of the Irondrakes, but because the Gyrocopters are your best shot at killing Grimgor's (and that quest battle's) Doom Diver, which will be the single most threatening thing in your early game. Not even Grimgor can hope to rake in as many kills as that loving thing can.
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Oct 30, 2017 19:57
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Ravenfood posted:Maybe give elite units slightly less upkeep generally but a stacking upkeep penalty the more of them you have in one army (either "elite" units total or per unit type)? Possibly with a varying amount of "free" units before they start counting towards that penalty? I don't think anything needs changing on that side. One expensive upkeep unit is barely noticeable but 10 would be crippling in the early game. Training cost, training time and upkeep are effective checks on army composition, becoming less restrictive once you've got your economy ticking and a Loremaster with Bladelord in your stack. The campaign map exists to create fun cool battles. Having to work hard and jump through hoops to get variety into your armies doesn't serve that end. No normal units should require higher than a tier 3 building. The fanciest dragons and tanks can be tier 4. Maybe.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:02
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Hunt11 posted:My biggest concern would be that the historical factions would be so boring. Maybe to some, but it could be a dlc, or hell maybe someone eventually will mod it in, but I'd find them fun to play as, and slaughtering them as anyone would be satisfying.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:06
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The should do a small focused total war next and use the opportunity to try out new stuff and work on the engine. Warhammer feels like the culmination of what theyve been building since Empire and Rome 2 and Id like them to work on the foundation and start a new era. Id like them to do something small alongside this because they have a real bad record of what happens when they do big and innovative (the aforementioned empire and rome 2) SickZip fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 20:08
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I love these events.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:14
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SteelMentor posted:Trick-or-Queek LOL Mannfred von SCAREstein
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Oct 30, 2017 20:17
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Man, Mortal Empires gets boring when you disable Chaos. I really hope they sort it out soon! I also think the best way to play ME is to set yourself minor campaign goals and then start over. It's too easy to now rumble on for hundreds of turns and have to maintain massive empires with loads of tedious building. And playing a horde army loses you the lovely benefit of seeing the whole world empty as there are simply too many factions to kill.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:18
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Plavski posted:Man, Mortal Empires gets boring when you disable Chaos. I really hope they sort it out soon! I posted a mod I found and tried the other day that didn't disable chaos in ME. It spawned all 4 groups of 5 armies like normal, in roughly their normal start position. They actually behaved reasonably, it was pretty great. I only had to fend off 4 stacks on the north shore of Ulthuan; one of that group headed for Naggaroth, a group went for the Badlands, another split between the two southern continents, and the last went frolicking across the Empire and Bretonnia.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:22
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sassassin posted:I don't think anything needs changing on that side. One expensive upkeep unit is barely noticeable but 10 would be crippling in the early game. Training cost, training time and upkeep are effective checks on army composition, becoming less restrictive once you've got your economy ticking and a Loremaster with Bladelord in your stack. I have no idea how to do this though. You might be able to cludge something together using the Brettonian vows system somehow like that one guy did with the Legitimacy mod and chivalry? It could also be used to differentiate lords' armies more. I'm thinking of lord skills that let you take more artillery but less cavalry for example, or make you choose between Honest Steel and a few free extra elite slots, etc. Its a really flexible system that can be tied into so many things. Offices immediately spring to mind: giving the Reiksmarshall several "free" Reiksguard units immediately makes that army feel more unique on the battlefield. Or lords, buildings, and upgrades. Wood Elves too: you could decouple the Elf/Tree mechanic from Amber and instead tie it to this where having cross-faction units would just be prohibitively expensive (a la Brets fielding Grail units without the right Vow) possibly with a lord skill and/or trait that lets you gain some cross-faction slots in return for some other tradeoff. The massive upkeep reductions on some lords' favored units is kind of a step in the right direction, but you could also do both and make one lord-specific and the other faction-related so that it's not just Queek and Skrolk's (or Wurzzag's, etc) armies that are different from each other, but all of their ancillary lords' are too. Its a little weird to me that Clan Mors and Clan Pestilens armies are basically identical outside of their LL's armies, and this could fix it. Totally unrelated idea: maybe give each new lord an option to be recruited with a retinue that could potentially be somewhat randomized, related to their class/traits, or related to/identical to what your LL starts with? You'd have to pay full-price for them so people wouldn't just hire lords for the units then disband them, but you'd get more high-tier units on the field early. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 20:35
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Oh my god, Winds of Death on a pile of rats is the greatest thing ever. My necromancer just got almost 600 kills in one battle. 
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Oct 30, 2017 20:51
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sassassin posted:I don't think anything needs changing on that side. One expensive upkeep unit is barely noticeable but 10 would be crippling in the early game. Training cost, training time and upkeep are effective checks on army composition, becoming less restrictive once you've got your economy ticking and a Loremaster with Bladelord in your stack. This is honestly what I'd like to see. Economic concerns would generally prevent you from loading up on early game elite units, but simply being able to mix in some stuff like an early organ gun or some reiksguard or some black orcs early on to be your army's centerpiece while the rest of it is more economical filler would be a lot more fun. Most of the time in my campaigns I just run around with super efficient tier 1 and tier 2 stacks until my economy is so strong that I can do whatever, but that usually takes 60-80 turns depending on start and gently caress that.
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Oct 30, 2017 20:53
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Gonkish posted:Oh my god, Winds of Death on a pile of rats is the greatest thing ever. My necromancer just got almost 600 kills in one battle. 600? Amateur. 
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Oct 30, 2017 21:04
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I kinda think I'm gonna skip Warhammer 2 because I really only want it for Mortal Empires, and I know in like a year they'll come out with Warhammer 3 anyway with all 3 games combined. I'm playing Napoleon for the time being
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Oct 30, 2017 21:05
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I have always, and likely will always, just run armies of economically efficient troops that get good red bonuses from their lords (state troops, lothern sea guard, multiple stacks of clan rats, etc.) and bury my enemies under mounds of bodies. It's much more cost efficient, especially with regards to time. It's actually quite annoying how hard it is to maintain elite units in an army, since 1 or 2 seem to always die in an autoresolve and I'm not gonna spend 5 turns globally recruiting those. Especially when I can build 2 full size armies in 5 turns.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:05
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Building an artillery heavy army as the Dwarves, it's really frustrating that the AI seems to be able to predict the trajectory off all my shots and serpentine out of the way at the last minute. It's like a goddamn Ork ballet.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:09
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Phi230 posted:I kinda think I'm gonna skip Warhammer 2 because I really only want it for Mortal Empires, and I know in like a year they'll come out with Warhammer 3 anyway with all 3 games combined. You will likely not be able to play any of the WH2 races if you do it this way mind.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:09
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Zore posted:You will likely not be able to play any of the WH2 races if you do it this way mind. why not? Would Mortal Empires 2 or whatever comes out during Warhammer 3 not include the WH2 races?
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Oct 30, 2017 21:11
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Plus I think there's supposed to be more time between the second and third games.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:12
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Building an artillery heavy army as the Dwarves, it's really frustrating that the AI seems to be able to predict the trajectory off all my shots and serpentine out of the way at the last minute. This is an AI cheat that goes all the way back to like Shogun 2
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Oct 30, 2017 21:12
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Phi230 posted:why not? Would Mortal Empires 2 or whatever comes out during Warhammer 3 not include the WH2 races?
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Oct 30, 2017 21:13
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Phi230 posted:why not? Would Mortal Empires 2 or whatever comes out during Warhammer 3 not include the WH2 races? Mortal Empires 1 doesn't feature the WH1 races unless you own WH1 or the DLC they're in. Like they're enemies on the map, but if you only own WH2 you can only play as those factions.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:14
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Plavski posted:After the wild variety in units in Warhams, I'm not sure I could go back to a period that was just pointy sticks and guns for the entire game. Yeah, I seriously hope the next historical game is going to be one where you have genuinely different cultures with different approaches to warfare clashing up against each other. Rome 2, despite all its warts, gave each of the main culture groups different enough rosters that they all fielded different looking armies with different tactical options available to each. Carthage didn't have access to foot archers, for example while the Persian infantry would typically lose ground against its Greek and Roman counterparts. Obviously not to the same level as Warhammer, but there's only so much you can do when all your factions are the same species.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:16
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