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Jeb! Repetition posted:Aaaaaaaand he mouth kissed her Hell of a combo
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Oct 31, 2017 03:49
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WampaLord posted:Hell of a combo Hey, the lady in A Simple Investigation dug it. Kira, too, eventually.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:50
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Mike the TV posted:Found this awesome video while replying to the Orville thread: Vulcan Martok, noooo
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Oct 31, 2017 03:50
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Cythereal posted:Which leads to this episode. I don't mind the concept of Bashir being genetically enhanced, and think Star Trek could stand to explore transhuman ideas more than it does, but I don't think it's handled well with Bashir as I recall future episodes doing. Especially not the godawful other group of augmented.
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Oct 31, 2017 04:04
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Yeah last night's Discovery was a fun ride if you don't think too hard about it. Which is sort of broadly true for the whole show. Apparently Starfleet's security is bad enough that Mudd was somehow able to take over the computer cold, at some point, within 30 minutes. Also, time crystals are just a periodic state of matter; they don't facilitate time travel in any way. Surely at the start of every cycle, there's a window of time before Mudd has cracked the systems? Unless the ship can be remotely attacked, cold, within a few minutes, which is just hilariously bad security. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 04:09
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Ties of Blood and Water Kira episodes have gotten distressingly predictable and this one's no different. I don't know why Second Skin of all episodes got a sequel episode, but eh could be worse. I'm surprised Kira's boyfriend doesn't make an appearance, but I don't blame the writers if they just plain forgot. Geordi and Bashir may have awful luck with women, but at least they tend to fall for people with discernable personalities unlike Kira. No, the real fun here is the interplay between Sisko, Dukat, and Weyoun's first reappearance. Jeffrey Combs is a treasure. Add a vorta as a Dominion observer on a Starfleet ship to my wish list for a post-DS9/VOY Star Trek series. All the vorta who don't constantly look like they're constipated have been a lot of fun, whether it's Weyoun or Kailana from The Ship or Eris from The Jem'hadar. Random thought: someone earlier in the thread did a thing on how you could plausibly imagine what Picard is like as some of the Star Trek races, so while I'm plowing through DS9 I'll take a stab at doing the same for Sisko. Sisko, the Klingon: Between Apocalypse Rising, Sisko's own interactions with Martok, and the Klingon Chef, I think we can pretty clearly see what a Klingon Sisko would be like. Martok's right hand man, probably his flag captain or captain of the most powerful ship under Martok's command as the guy he sends to get poo poo done when poo poo absolutely needs to get done. Fights hard, shouts hard, prepares a drat good plate of food. Could probably become Chancellor if he had any interest in politics. Sisko, the Ferengi: Behold Liquidator Sisko, the long arm of Ferengi law and the man deployed by the Grand Nagus when he wishes a problem removed permanently. Cunning, ruthless, and brutal: he knows more about how to run your business than you do. More steely-eyed and bare-knuckle in his negotiating strategy than common for a Ferengi, but a master of the hard sell and the hostile takeover. Saves enormous amounts of latinum by not employing a chef - if he'd cared to, he could be the personal chef of the Grand Nagus himself. Sisko, the Cardassian: The Bajoran Resistance's worst nightmare, and the man sent by Cardassia as a check on Gul Dukat. Dukat may be nominally in charge, but it's Sisko that people really fear. When he says he'd prefer not to hurt anyone, Bajorans actually believe him. They also believe him when he says he'll step over as many bodies as it takes to get the job done. Gracious in person, and truly feels nothing personal against the Bajorans. May be a member of the Obsidian Order rather than the Central Command. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 04:18
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Arglebargle III posted:Surely at the start of every cycle, there's a window of time before Mudd has cracked the systems? Unless the ship can be remotely attacked, cold, within a few minutes, which is just hilariously bad security.
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Oct 31, 2017 04:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:They establish pretty quickly that he learns from each time loop, and they also mention that he has done this loop more than 53 times at one point, so given that amount of time I'm not surprised he can do it. So... Someone on the Discovery team watched the Hell Bent episode of Doctor Who.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:01
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I mean I guess wrath of Khan established that the computer will accept radio commands with the right password. From 2017 that seems like incredibly bad security. Maybe it's Section 31's Sporenet software.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:01
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Arglebargle III posted:Maybe it's Section 31's Sporenet software. It's a security flaw in slimewire
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Oct 31, 2017 05:10
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Honestly given how often random space magic happens having only a single computer control the entire ship sounds like the biggest security flaw.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:55
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Arglebargle III posted:I mean I guess wrath of Khan established that the computer will accept radio commands with the right password. From 2017 that seems like incredibly bad security. Lots of things have a VPN client, most of them can't be defeated within a day's worth of brute forcing. But at least someone in the writers' den was in on the joke, "This ship has so many ways to be destroyed, it's almost a design flaw" 
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Oct 31, 2017 06:22
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Arglebargle III posted:Also, time crystals are just a periodic state of matter; they don't facilitate time travel in any way. Ehh, wouldn't be the first time Star Trek has latched on to some new scientific concept without understanding it at all. IIRC TNG did it with quantum filaments.
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Oct 31, 2017 08:31
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Also TNG established that all you need to take over the ship and lock everyone else out is a voice synthesizer to make you sound like the captain. Mudd probably got everything he needed on the first run when Lorca called down to him on the comm.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:51
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Hm. You know, that I have seen every TOS episode at least 3 times (embarrassingly enough) due to Star Trek's status as my "comfort television" when I need to put on something comforting predictable and immersing in terms of both its setting and soundtrack, so yeah I just cycle through TOS/TNG/DS9 as needed and it's very convenient they're both so easily accessible on both Amazon and Netflix. Anyway, I've come to the point where I *really* loathe and dislike the character of James Kirk as portrayed by William Shatner in... A lot of episodes. I also like a number of the attributes we see in his career a great deal. To pose something of a comparison using two memorable episodes... The James Kirk featured in the episode Arena rather compounds everything I greatly dislike about the character, while the James Kirk we see in the episode, say, Mirror, Mirror does a good job of casting into light the parts of his character which I do like and admire. But I mean, I can't even watch Arena anymore - the thing just annoys me too goddamn much. I think it's where Kirk describes himself (a Starfleet captain with unchecked power commanding a warship with enough weapons to annihilate planets) as a "policeman" while producing to act irrationally and on no hard evidence against a species he knows nothing whatsoever about, in a part of the galaxy where they are strangers - guests, really. And this is all acknowledged very clearly in the episode - it's why Spock looks like he's about to start crying when Kirk, clearly acting entirely on his emotions and nothing else, goes through the motions of "BATTLE STATIONS RED ALERT THIS IS NO DRILL REPEAT THIS IS NO DRILL!" in his quarters. Even when the enemy appears to have lost power and been rendered apparently powerless, does he pause for a moment to consider the situation and what's going on? Of course not. He grins smugly like a fool who just got dealt a lucky hand of poker and exclaims "Then we got 'em!"  <-- that is literally his face in the scene. Later down the line in the episode, when he pushes a boulder onto the Gorn and believes he's killed him, does Shatner's Kirk seem even remotely concerned about thinking he just killed another sentient being? No, he grins like a fool again and even claps his hand together while approaching the corpse. What a great guy. The one thing that makes absolutely no sense is Shatner deciding to spare the Gorn at the end. It's really entirely out of character in relation to the James Kirk we've been watching all season, and especially in that episode. James Kirk wouldn't just want to stab the Gorn repeatedly, he'd probably carve off the thing's scalp and wear it around the bridge as a hat for a few days. At no point in the episode does he show the tiniest bit of respect for living beings who aren't at least part-human until the very end when he starts acting like Spock.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:11
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I would say a lot of that is just the time period the show was written in.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:35
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Nessus posted:When DS9 was being made, "transhumanism" might not have existed as a word, and the concept was certainly not widespread. Nope, it's been around since the 60s.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:50
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Transhumanists are just Cybermen rip offs anyway.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:59
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It's nice to see a Starfleet crew deal with temporal bullshit without a bunch of dazed conversation, it seemed like everyone got on board with time travel real quick.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:23
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I'm lolling at Geordi pouring himself a drink in the dead girl's glassware, sitting on her bed, petting her dog thats the closest geordi comes to getting laid
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Oct 31, 2017 15:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:I would say a lot of that is just the time period the show was written in. Not at all, a major plot point of the episode was that Kirk's attitude was wrong. It doesn't stop him from retaining that attitude in future missions, either I always found it sort of... a shocking sort of doublethink the number of times that Kirk and his team beam down, draw their phasers and point them and in the same breath say "We come in peace but we'll defend ourselves!" I mean, I get it, but it's still pretty hosed up. Also the number of times "I was following orders" can be used as an excuse in one episode and an indictment in another. The TNG writers were guilty of doing that once or twice too, though. To their credit the DS9 writers were the only ones to handle that (and a shitload of other things) in a more 'tolerant' or 'realistic' way. Despite going way too far in that direction for an episode or too ("Melora" ugh) before hitting its stride in the third and fourth seasons. kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 16:07
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kaworu posted:Hm. You know, that I have seen every TOS episode at least 3 times (embarrassingly enough) due to Star Trek's status as my "comfort television" when I need to put on something comforting predictable and immersing in terms of both its setting and soundtrack, so yeah I just cycle through TOS/TNG/DS9 as needed and it's very convenient they're both so easily accessible on both Amazon and Netflix. You missed the point of that episode. Completely. Kirk wasn't really supposed to be the "good guy" in that episode. You're supposed to question his motives and zeal for revenge against the Gorn. That's why the Metrons put him in that situation in the first place: to demonstrate to him that the Gorn captain was a living being, and not just an enemy to be killed, and that the Gorn may have had a reason for attacking Cestus III. It drives me nuts when people take this episode out of context and go on and on about Kirk being dictatorial when the entire episode was an attempt to show Kirk that he had crossed the line. The fact that Kirk didn't kill the Gorn captain in the end was supposed to demonstrate that he had learned his lesson.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:14
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I think a real problem on a lot of these shows are different writers that don’t get what the characters are fundamentally about.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:14
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VitalSigns posted:If Harry Mudd has a time loop generator aren't there way easier and also 100% legal ways to make a ton of money with zero risk of being prosecuted afterwards instead of robbing banks and committing espionage? I said this in another thread but I feel like The Dark Knight made a bunch of writers want to do their own take on the "crazy, seemingly omniscient and impossibly well-resourced mastermind who is three steps ahead of everyone else" concept.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:21
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Ferengi Love Songs Why was this episode allowed to happen. I want the last 45 minutes of my life back.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:57
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:You missed the point of that episode. Completely. You may have missed *my* essential point, which is that Kirk's "redemption" at the end winds up being reset to status quo - like much other seeming character development. I could talk about how in "Requiem for Methuselah" he appears to show virtually no concern whatsoever for the vast majority of his crew suffering in the throes of the space version of Bubonic plague. While they suffer, he leisurely drinks brandy and dances a waltz with a girl who looks about 16. He later "falls in love" with this girl and behaves like a goddamn madman to try and creepily and near-forcibly take this synthetic child with him to be his lover. She ends up dying and they apparently *just barely* saves the crew from literally making GBS threads their intestines out or whatever. Good thing it was scripted so that loover's quarrel stopped at *just* the write time. It's stuff like that which makes me really loathe his character. I certainly would not call him "dictatorial", not at all. By all appearances he would seem to be a quite capable (and unless with Spock or McCoy, utterly humorless) commander who is highly skilled at Starship battles. He nearly always follows orders (unless Spock's life is in jeopardy) often to a fault. In the latter's instance, I feel obliged to mention one of the better Season 3 episodes (written under pseudonym by Gene Coon), Spectre of the Gun, which has a truly insane beginning. Kirk has been ordered by Starfleet to "make contact with" a race called The Melkotions, of which they know little about. Kirk accomplishes this mission just a few minutes into the episode, in fact! They reach an Alien Buoy, which allows them to contact the Melkotians. The Melkotian contacts the bridge crew telepathically, each perceiving it in their own native tongue - that's definite "contact", if you ask me. They told that they have encroach on "The space of the Melkot", that they must leave immediately, and that they will receive no further warnings. How does Kirk takes that? Apparently, it is now also his mission or intent to establish "friendly relations" with them. Spock says he prefers being a welcome guest, but that they have "little choice". Kirk flatly states "none whatsoever". And they beam down, armed with phasers. And then feel as if the Melkotions are out of line by setting them up to die. It's just... ridiculous. One of the basic tenets of Starfleet, as I understood it, was that whole... prime directive, non-interference directive. Yeah? I mean there was that horribly boring arc in the latter part of season 2 with all kinds of horrid episodes like Friday's Child or Omega Glory dealing with the important of this directive, And I'd always thought that a big part of this directive was not just not interfering with developing civilizations, but also civilly respecting the privacy of any civilization that does not desire contact. It doesn't seem like showing up pointing a powerful firearm is a particularly friendly way to "establish friendly relations." Ohh, I know it all works out in the end, but not in any way that makes sense. Still a drat fun episode - Star Trek (and lots of other retro genre shows, really, like pre-revival Doctor Who) benefit from stuff like this, in my opinion. You need a *powerful* suspension of disbelief, and unlike shows today you are given a chance to actually use your imagination at times. That's one of the things I'll always love about TOS, despite any of its flaws and shortcomings.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:04
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I'm watching Waltz, and Dukat ranting about Bajorans is so much like white supremacists defending the Confederacy.
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Oct 31, 2017 18:01
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Soldiers of the Empire Quite possibly my favorite Klingon episode in all of Star Trek, looking at what life is like on a Klingon warship and what the Klingons are like when they're on the back foot. Martok is a great character, and I like that he's allowed to be flawed, especially in such a believable way. I also like seeing the views of the common Klingon soldiers on their various foes - they may dislike the Cardassians and Federation intensely, but they also tremendously respect them for following their own codes of behavior and fighting for their homes. The Klingons understand and respect that. But the Jem'hadar are grown in vats, programmed to revere the Founders as gods, and have scarcely any life or souls of their own. There's nothing to respect there, even if individual Jem'hadar can at times rise above that. Good episode, and a sorely needed palette cleanser after Ferengi Love Songs.
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Oct 31, 2017 18:01
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 It's kinda cool to see the idealized heroic ferrengi action hero form has huge grand nagus style lobes.
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Oct 31, 2017 18:03
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Baronjutter posted:
I guess Ferenginar had a roided-out 90's action figure phase too
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Oct 31, 2017 18:17
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kaworu posted:You may have missed *my* essential point, which is that Kirk's "redemption" at the end winds up being reset to status quo - like much other seeming character development. But there again: in Requiem For Methuselah (if I'm remembering correctly; it's been a while since I've seen it) they were cozying up to Flint in order to get the meds they needed. Flint was loath to help them and needed time to synthesize the drugs, so it's not like they were there for pleasure. I agree with you that Kirk falling so hard for (spoiler just in case) an android that Spock has to make him forget is pretty ridiculous. I appreciate the character moment they were trying to go for there, but Edith Keeler had a much more impact on Kirk than whatshername in Requiem. One of the things I really like about TOS was how real the characters seemed. TNG depicted its characters so squeaky clean and conflict free that they were sometimes like caricatures. Kirk was a complex man. He was a man of peace, but he also had a tendency to jump the gun before he had all the facts (this happened both in Arena and Errand of Mercy, and in both episodes, Kirk was not depicted as the one in the right). In many ways, he was a disciplined, "by the book" type, but he wasn't afraid to bend his orders when the situation called for it. The fact that the TOS characters (for the most part) were so complex and non-utopian is part of what makes it such a great show.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I guess Ferenginar had a roided-out 90's action figure phase too
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Oct 31, 2017 19:09
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Thanks for the replies to my previous post. I've since watched Dragon's Teeth. Verdict: It was okay. My thoughts are pretty much the same as Doggles'. It was an interesting premise but it just kinda falters toward the end. They try to make it sound like there might be consequences in the future, but that rings hollow. Anyway, thanks for the episode suggestion. I'm looking forward to seeing those. Baronjutter posted:
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Oct 31, 2017 19:13
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah last night's Discovery was a fun ride if you don't think too hard about it. Which is sort of broadly true for the whole show. I no longer have access to All Access so I haven't watched the past few episodes of STD. If I've picked this up right across Star Trek threads, it sounds like Harry Mudd got the crew stuck in some sort of time loop. Can anyone confirm/deny if the series is still doing the Alice in Wonderland retelling route? Did the Mad Hatter really get stuck in time? quote:The Hatter character, alongside all the other fictional beings, first appears in Lewis Carroll's 1865 novel Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. In it, the Hatter explains to Alice that he and the March Hare are always having tea because when he tried to sing for the foul-tempered Queen of Hearts, she sentenced him to death for "murdering the time", but he escapes decapitation. In retaliation, time (referred to as a "he" in the novel) halts himself in respect to the Hatter, keeping him and the March Hare stuck at 18:00 (or 6:00 pm) forever. Doggles fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 19:16
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Children of Time Interesting moral dilemma undermined by a simple fact: we know the series won't end here, and certainly won't end like this. It's the problem with every episode like this, and particularly bad on Voyager with its "Will they make it home this week?!?!" episodes. The answer is always no, they will not, and we in the audience know they will not because then the show would be over or at least radically retooled, and we know that's not happening. So why bother with attempting drama from that? Not a bad character episode if you're willing to overlook that, I suppose, but still falls hard on Odo and Kira and I don't have the most respect for either of them as being able to carry this kind of drama. Sisko? Absolutely. Worf? Sure. Garak? Yes. Bashir? Would be nice to give him a chance to chew on something like this. But probably not Kira and certainly not Odo.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:26
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END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:I wish we had seen the Ferengi military at least a little in DS9. Once their culture was established, I always wondered how the soldier Ferengi from TNG fit into that. Are they a normal military, or are they all mercenaries, or privateers, or contractors operating ships owned by the Nagus, or something else? It's a lot like the Klingons though. We hear a lot about them, but they never touch on what it's like to be a Klingon farmer or scientist or anything like that. I think that could be interesting. Ferengi soldiers are magnificent.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:26
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Ferengi soldiers are probably Nausicaans.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:25
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Daimon Bok: Are you a Nausicaan or Nausicaan't?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:30
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Nausiwon't
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Oct 31, 2017 21:16
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Blaze of Glory Good riddance to a plot that outlived its usefulness at the beginning of last season.
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Oct 31, 2017 21:16
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