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Therapy for this stuff IS a mess, though. It isn’t even necessarily a mental illness. The idea that “go get help” is a quick solution is just as wrong as the fairytale teenage romance thing.
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Oct 31, 2017 07:46
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I was just reading in the 600 lbs thread about a man who was so fat he got fused to his chair and was covered in feces and maggots. And he had a girlfriend. My first reaction was to think of the incels and chuckle
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Oct 31, 2017 07:47
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El Padrino posted:Chad deity is Zeus, god of thunder and banging everything under the son 
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Oct 31, 2017 09:09
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hyphz posted:Therapy for this stuff IS a mess, though. It isn’t even necessarily a mental illness. The idea that “go get help” is a quick solution is just as wrong as the fairytale teenage romance thing. no it actually is exactly that simple. here is the brilliant trick though: the person receiving therapy has to want to change. no treatment or technique will ever work unless this is true. but wanting to change means you have to accept responsibility for your situation and your decisions, and NOT doing that is a part of their lovely identity.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:17
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I was just reading in the 600 lbs thread about a man who was so fat he got fused to his chair and was covered in feces and maggots. And he had a girlfriend. My first reaction was to think of the incels and chuckle What the. Also I didn’t know there was a thread for that. My wife would love it? but I doubt even that would get her to look at these forums for herself. She’s wise that way.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:24
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Coolguye posted:no it actually is exactly that simple. here is the brilliant trick though: the person receiving therapy has to want to change. no treatment or technique will ever work unless this is true. Well, that’s true, but it’s more why inceldom isn’t a mental illness per se and thus therapy isn’t really appropriate. People with actual mental illnesses often very much want to not have them, but they can’t just “not have them” any more than you can just choose not to have a cold.
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Oct 31, 2017 11:01
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hyphz posted:Well, that’s true, but it’s more why inceldom isn’t a mental illness per se and thus therapy isn’t really appropriate. I choose to have a cold on Mondays all the time
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Oct 31, 2017 13:38
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joylessdivision posted:Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it went. Which then makes me question why the Old Testament is even kept around in Christianity because OT God was a real rear end in a top hat. Just wiping people out left and right, not to mention poor Job. God: I love all my children equally! [earlier that day...] God: I don't care for Job.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:57
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hyphz posted:Well, that’s true, but it’s more why inceldom isn’t a mental illness per se and thus therapy isn’t really appropriate.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:17
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i like nice words
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Anne Whateley posted:Therapy isn't just for mental illnesses, it's for all kinds of reasons. Bonkers delusions, not knowing how to handle your emotions, inappropriate reactions, etc., are all very good reasons for therapy. Incels do not seem to be caused distress by their delusions/reactions etc. It may be an unhealthy way of dealing with that distress about other things. But it’s unlikely to be seen as a mental illness, especially when it relates to behaviour on the Internet, which many therapists just disregard.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:46
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hyphz posted:Incels do not seem to be caused distress by their delusions/reactions etc. It may be an unhealthy way of dealing with that distress about other things. But it’s unlikely to be seen as a mental illness, especially when it relates to behaviour on the Internet, which many therapists just disregard. They are loving miserable people who are self-labeling as failed, unfixable human beings.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:48
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hyphz posted:especially when it relates to behaviour on the Internet, which many therapists just disregard. Is this actually true? It seems like as a larger part of human interaction takes place with an electronic intermediary it'd kind of be a super important avenue of investigation for an analyst? Or maybe I'm just dumb.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:48
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Literally A Person posted:Is this actually true? Sounds like a bad therapist, which there are unfortunately a lot of. VV OK This I can believe, I interpreted the original comment differently. univbee fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 15:54
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Literally A Person posted:Is this actually true? I’ve seen therapists before (not for inceldom, for OCD) and any mention about trouble integrating with internet communities was met by “well, they’re just random people and don’t matter”. Others confirmed this. It might be changing since then (it was a while back) but the position was that there are so many trolls, sock puppets, baiters and just liars in places online - and people filter their own posts so much - that trying to using it as a diagnostic is a losing battle.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:54
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hyphz posted:I’ve seen therapists before (not for inceldom, for OCD) and any mention about trouble integrating with internet communities was met by “well, they’re just random people and don’t matter”. Others confirmed this. I misinterpreted your earlier post. I was thinking more in terms of communities that people are already embedded in.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:04
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hyphz posted:Incels do not seem to be caused distress by their delusions/reactions etc. quote:But it’s unlikely to be seen as a mental illness Anne Whateley posted:Therapy isn't just for mental illnesses, it's for all kinds of reasons. quote:especially when it relates to behaviour on the Internet, which many therapists just disregard.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:55
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Anne Whateley posted:Incels cause themselves enormous amounts of stress with their delusions. See every post about how Stacy didn't smile at them which means they're monsters and she was on her way to gargle ten Chad cocks. It’s much easier to believe that than to believe that you might be alone just because there was never any guarantee you wouldn’t be and that might never change. I mean, “gargling Chad cocks” is just sour grapes.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:03
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It's totally delusional, it's not a healthy way of coping with anything, and it obviously causes them a lot of stress. It's also the kind of thing a therapist could help with if you're open to it.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:19
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yeah for real most therapists could not only provide different ways of looking at this they can also back up calling it a delusion with facts that they have the time to look up and substantiate because they're, you know, being paid for it but the ultimate thing here, again, is that their patient must honestly want to change their situation. step one of that is accepting that you're the one who got here in the first place. this 'bad roll of the genetic dice' stuff is their layers-deep denial that they have anything to do with their own problems.
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Oct 31, 2017 17:50
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hyphz posted:Therapy for this stuff IS a mess, though. It isn’t even necessarily a mental illness. The idea that “go get help” is a quick solution is just as wrong as the fairytale teenage romance thing. Yeah I’m not sure if most of this incel stuff is even mental illness. A lot of it sure seems like hormonal angst. I guess the better advice would be “grow up”
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Oct 31, 2017 18:43
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Therapy "for" something is looking at it the wrong way. That's as ineffective as short-term dieting. In both cases, the actual key to lasting success is to see the process as a permanent lifestyle change
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Oct 31, 2017 18:48
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hyphz posted:Well, that’s true, but it’s more why inceldom isn’t a mental illness per se and thus therapy isn’t really appropriate. "actual mental illness can't be treated" oh okay, so you agree therapy is appropriate.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:01
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Sentient Data posted:Therapy "for" something is looking at it the wrong way. That's as ineffective as short-term dieting. In both cases, the actual key to lasting success is to see the process as a permanent lifestyle change
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Oct 31, 2017 19:20
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Right, that was poorly worded, I just meant that saying going to therapy for one specific something (like being an incel) sounds like attacking a symptom rather than a root cause
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Oct 31, 2017 19:57
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Ghostlight posted:"inceldom isn't really a mental illness" Er, no, I didn't say mental illness can't be treated, I said you can't just choose not to have it. Those are far from the same (what would it mean if they were? That there was nothing to therapy but persuading you to make that choice?) Therapy is best when it's for a mental illness that has defined symptoms on which an effect can be observed. Thing is, unless the patient is in the "danger to themselves or others" category, often a key diagnostic of mental illness is internal conflict or distress. That's important because it prevents Cuckoo's Nest poo poo where a person is deemed mentally ill just because someone else or "society" doesn't like how they think. But given that context, it's impossible for a mentally ill patient to "not want to change" - if they're happy how they are, they don't have internal distress and most diagnoses won't apply. Now, they can be unwilling to do the specific treatment but that's not entirely their fault because maybe there is a better treatment that hasn't been invented yet (or just a straight up drug, which are much more commonly used than people seem to think) The problem is that when you start going to therapy for things that are vaguely defined then it quickly becomes unscientific. And while it's quite true that someone who "doesn't want to change" won't, that fact you end up even making that assertion shows that the condition they're trying to treat isn't defined, which means success of the treatment can't be defined either and before you know it you are measuring your thetan level on the floating needle. (I mean seriously I was once in a community therapy waiting room where there were posters actually advertising "colon hydrotherapy" - as in, having enemas for fun - as a treatment for "anxiety". Sorry, but I really have to write "no poo poo.." after that..)
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Oct 31, 2017 20:15
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quote:Therapy is best when it's for a mental illness that has defined symptoms on which an effect can be observed
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Oct 31, 2017 20:27
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hyphz posted:"danger to themselves or others" Elliot Rodgers, their near-constant posts about how much better off they would be dead
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Oct 31, 2017 20:28
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Anne Whateley posted:This is where the fundamental disagreement is coming from. "Can be measured most easily" isn't the same as "is best." Therapy is definitely not just for people with diagnosed mental illnesses. It doesn't matter to what extent it's "unscientific," it matters how much it improves an individual's life. By all means skip the enemas, but learn healthy coping strategies. But cope is the enemy.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:35
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I feel like a deep question comes down to inceldom, when does being a piece of poo poo slide into mental illness? Like a good portion of those in the incel community seem to have deep mental illness, but how many are just total hateful dickheads?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:35
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Normies, if you truly believe that personality matters, answer this How am I able to talk to multiple girls for HOURS online about a multitude of topics when catfishing, but not with my real lovely face, even though I'm the exact same person behind the monitor? They literally straight up compliment my PERSONALITY and how much they love talking to me, but ONLY when using the pictures of a good looking Chad. Why's that?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:38
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Improbable Lobster posted:Elliot Rodgers, their near-constant posts about how much better off they would be dead Elliot was a single case and, as Walter Fate pointed out, was actually fairly atypical incel. And suicide threats on the internet are a dime a dozen when all you have to do is type and you can just make a new account anytime. Anne Whateley posted:This is where the fundamental disagreement is coming from. "Can be measured most easily" isn't the same as "is best." Therapy is definitely not just for people with diagnosed mental illnesses. It doesn't matter to what extent it's "unscientific," it matters how much it improves an individual's life. By all means skip the enemas, but learn healthy coping strategies. It matters completely that it's unscientific, unscientific therapy is how Dianetics and other associated crap get out there. And yes, there are people who will say Dianetics improved their lives, but that doesn't mean it was ever a good idea.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:43
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Shut the gently caress up thread about that dumb poo poo, instead look at this:quote:Cultural appropriation for incels. "My boyfriend and I dressed as a Neckbeard and his Waifu for Halloween".
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Oct 31, 2017 20:49
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fruit on the bottom posted:Normies, if you truly believe that personality matters, answer this I imagine that the shock of the fake profile pic is what turns off the woman. Already the relationship is based partly on a lie so the woman is immediately put on guard when they come face to face so no amount of personality can help this guy. I bet she thinks, "Well if this guy was lying with his profile pic, can I trust his words?" I'm completely armchair psychoanalysing though.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:53
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Palpek posted:Shut the gently caress up thread about that dumb poo poo, instead look at this: Wait don't listen to my dumb bullshit, this owns 
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Oct 31, 2017 20:54
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That's a good idea, but that girl looks way too old and to 3D to be a waifu imo
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Oct 31, 2017 21:01
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fruit on the bottom posted:Normies, if you truly believe that personality matters, answer this They compliment his personality while he is catfishing. Isn't catfishing online basically straight up lying? Like just showing and saying only what you think the victim wants to see and hear? Maybe some of these guys should just live the lie as their actual personality is so caustic. Might improve things.
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Oct 31, 2017 21:02
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Palpek posted:Shut the gently caress up thread about that dumb poo poo, instead look at this: This is probably the best post to come out of that shithole
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Oct 31, 2017 21:33
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Fathis Munk posted:That's a good idea, but that girl looks way too old and to 3D to be a waifu imo waifu costume should be a pillow case with a picture of herself on it
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Oct 31, 2017 21:37
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Brother Entropy posted:waifu costume should be a pillow case with a picture of herself on it
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Oct 31, 2017 21:58
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fruit on the bottom posted:Normies, if you truly believe that personality matters, answer this /r/incels discovers the halo effect
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Oct 31, 2017 22:07
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