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I have not seen too much of Defranco, but to me, he seems like he secretly harbors a lot of right-wing opinions and he's too much of a wuss to own up to it.
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Oct 31, 2017 22:41
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i don't even know if it's right wing or he's just a generic ignorant white guy. like when boogie et al semi defended jontron because they just want everyone to be friends and poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2017 22:44
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Groovelord Neato posted:i don't even know if it's right wing or he's just a generic ignorant white guy. like when boogie et al semi defended jontron because they just want everyone to be friends and poo poo. Well, I find it hard to respect/listen anyone that cant talk for more than 10 seconds without a jumpcut so I will probably never find out if he's really dishonest or naive.
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Oct 31, 2017 22:47
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It seems pretty wild to label Singal a TERF when he's going to all that work and writes lines like "In the long run, we’ll be better at this stuff — we’ll be better at understanding how to best help gender-dysphoric kids grow up to be confident, happy adults, whether they end up trans or cis, gay or straight or bi." I don't see it.
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Oct 31, 2017 22:57
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DeFranco is a self-described liberal libertarian, which means he's constantly flirting with right-wing opinions but never openly commits to them. He tends to get really excited when he finds (what he thinks to be) examples of "reverse racism," tries to make sure both sides* are portrayed "fairly" even when one of those sides is ridiculous or harmful, and above all he's very, very good at presenting himself as being a reasonable, thoughtful, empathetic person in his youtube videos no matter how much that isn't the case in fact. * If one of those sides is something like feminism or BLM, then it may or may not actually get portrayed. See his coverage of the Sargon/Sarkeesian thing from VidCon, for example.
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Nov 1, 2017 00:49
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Have you guys heard of Jesse Lee Peterson? Holy poo poo, so much of this is cringe worthy, yet at the same time I can't help at laugh at the way he pronounces "lesbian". I don't know who Stevie Boebi is but I'm amazed she went on this guy's show assuming she checked up on him first. Watching it is almost like watching a comedy sketch where the guest is the straight man (irony not intended) and Jesse Lee is a comedian playing a character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QVchsI9puY
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Nov 1, 2017 00:50
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The original uncle ruckus. I used to listen to him on the net before podcasts were a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4XhR0lYlE edit: I think he was one of those radio hosts that followed rush, depending on your area. That should tell you everything you need to know. temple fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 00:58
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Midig posted:Ok, so to entertain my wishful thinking again. Is there any way we can use debate to our advantage? Yes, by debating moderates and people who want to indirectly empower Nazis on why it's actually ok to silence the spread of the message of Nazis. People who want to pretend that words can't cause harm or people who want to pretend that "jokes are just jokes" when they see some YouTuber dressing up as an SS officer is some hilarious double-ironic joke that people just don't get. Those are the kind of people that you can (hopefully) reason with and teach that no, those things aren't ok. If you mean debating with Nazis, no, that is always a bad idea. Feel free to take down their arguments, mock them and show how absurd they are. But don't bother trying to start a dialog.
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Nov 1, 2017 01:07
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ClancyEverafter posted:It seems pretty wild to label Singal a TERF when he's going to all that work and writes lines like "In the long run, we’ll be better at this stuff — we’ll be better at understanding how to best help gender-dysphoric kids grow up to be confident, happy adults, whether they end up trans or cis, gay or straight or bi." I don't see it. this is how he deflects criticism of the fact that he thinks using conversion therapy to 'cure' trans kids is a great idea
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Nov 1, 2017 01:16
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temple posted:The original uncle ruckus. I used to listen to him on the net before podcasts were a thing. There's a great moment in the Blaire White episode where he talks about being scared of black lesbians beating him up.
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Nov 1, 2017 01:37
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ungulateman posted:this is how he deflects criticism of the fact that he thinks using conversion therapy to 'cure' trans kids is a great idea I would generally be suspicious of people who include "just stop being trans" as an option in a list of desirable outcomes.
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Nov 1, 2017 01:38
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OwlFancier posted:I feel it necessary to point out that the "convince the onlookers" approach can be done more directly, and is in fact exactly what pressuring platforms to remove nazis is an example of. You are ignoring the actual nazis and appealing to bystanders to take action against them.
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Nov 1, 2017 02:17
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ClancyEverafter posted:It seems pretty wild to label Singal a TERF when he's going to all that work and writes lines like "In the long run, we’ll be better at this stuff — we’ll be better at understanding how to best help gender-dysphoric kids grow up to be confident, happy adults, whether they end up trans or cis, gay or straight or bi." I don't see it. He says this to disarm critics because he immediately follows it up with poo poo like "Actually gender conversion therapy is good and cool for trans people and transgender people are all sick in the head and it's better for them to just stop."
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Nov 1, 2017 02:18
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https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/925465219425587200
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Nov 1, 2017 11:12
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I truly don’t understand what the criticism of Contra is even about here. A journalist did a feature on her and the journalist has some dumb ideas about trans people. So now by the transitive property Contra is now responsible for everything the journalist has ever written? I live in the United States. Does this mean I deserve to die because of the Vietnam War?
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Nov 1, 2017 11:24
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business hammocks posted:I truly don’t understand what the criticism of Contra is even about here. A journalist did a feature on her and the journalist has some dumb ideas about trans people. So now by the transitive property Contra is now responsible for everything the journalist has ever written? I think what people were worried about was not so much he going milkshake duck but her going Laci Green. Whether she wants to be or not, she is a role model and when she starts engaging with TERFs people get nervous.
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Nov 1, 2017 11:30
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business hammocks posted:I truly don’t understand what the criticism of Contra is even about here. A journalist did a feature on her and the journalist has some dumb ideas about trans people. So now by the transitive property Contra is now responsible for everything the journalist has ever written? The fear is that the journalist will use the Contra article or similar things to point to & say "look, I'm not a transphobe, I get on with popular trans person X", or something like that. Personally I trust Contra in this, but some of her audience who have been similarly let down in the past by other people are concerned because it looks similar. It'll all blow over soon enough, though, so long as nothing else happens.
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Nov 1, 2017 11:31
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I’d hope people would be smart enough to see through something like that. Even Laci Green is an obvious transparent grift with literally dating a younger Sargon, and I give Contra way more credit than a woman of average intelligence and no formal education. Even if Contra started dating Golden One, I’d wait a while to see where it was going.
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Nov 1, 2017 11:45
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It's hard to find the arguments people have with Contra because for some reason she hasn't addressed any of the arguments. Part of the problem is that Contra has framed this as her "engaging with" or "debating with the problematic world," when in fact it seems all that's happened is her getting a signal boost. To Contra, Jesse has been very respectful of her, of her identity, etc. But other trans women have told her their experiences with dealing with him and being interviewed for pieces and she's chosen, essentially, to disbelieve them because Jesse was nice to her and wrote a glowing article about her.
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Nov 1, 2017 11:46
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contra is incredibly smart so i trust her to make the right choices. it seems kind of messed up to me that there are people who think she has to represent like all trans people or whatever, that's just too much pressure to put on one person to be some kind of perfect super-being. i know i'd have an immediate meltdown if there was so much pressure from so many people put onto me. she's doing good work and being herself so that's anyone can hope for really.
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Nov 1, 2017 12:08
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jackofarcades posted:It's hard to find the arguments people have with Contra because for some reason she hasn't addressed any of the arguments. I don’t want to ask you specifically to do my homework for me, but I’d like to see these other profiles or interviews. Contra has earned a lot of good will from me by being rigorous and thoughtful. I can be convinced otherwise, but I haven’t yet seen evidence of her making a mistake in reasoning like that. Except maybe being on friendly terms with shoe on head.
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Nov 1, 2017 12:30
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Reposting from another thread. I think a lot of this comes from the fact that a lot of Trans and NB people have experience dealing with poo poo heads who demand a debate about if they are really trans. Mostly in the guise of "Just Asking Questions". This tends to make a lot of Trans and NB people put up a permanent shield. And we do need to get better at explaining to cis people what being trans means in general. That does mean talking to people may not be the friendliest to trans people. Otherwise groups like the Daily Mail are the ones who tell our stories and they are going after anyone who says anything remotely positive about Trans People. And the "Problematic" Stuff needs to go away. Because it's basically become another form of respectability politics. And gently caress THAT poo poo. Im seeing way to many people chased out of queer and left spaces simply because they still think Hillary Clinton would have been a good president. And it's a lot of trans people being chased out by Cis people. I trust that Contra knows what shes doing when she agrees to an interview with someone like that. Or agrees to a debate with the likes of Sargon and Blair White. I think shes wasting her time with the likes of them but I trust that shes not going to suddenly become a truscum. If you are cis and you see a trans person talking to a conservative or someone who hates Trans people, Trust Us. We Know what we are doing. And she's not going to turn into Laci Green. Stop that. If/when the sex tape between her and the Golden One get's released then I'l entertain that idea but...god dammit. Please trust Trans people on this stuff. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 13:01
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Midig posted:Ok, so to entertain my wishful thinking again. Is there any way we can use debate to our advantage? Is it possible to get them with their pants down and hold their balls to the fire? David Pakman seemed to do a good job of this in his interview with Richard Spencer. If you can make it easy for those seeing it to make the right choice, I hope it might do good. If we ask: You can't actually "win" an argument against one of these guys. Not by any rule set that requires them to "lose." They don't adhere to the rules. There is something you can do, though. "I know you're smart. So I know you can understand where I'm coming from. Hear me out on this." It's the same tactic that worked on you, Midig. Most of these guys have pride in their intelligence. Use that to your advantage. Break stuff down to basics and make them build it back up, make them see where they're going wrong. Present the way forward as a puzzle for them to solve rather than a set of rules for them to adhere to- you know, be honest with 'em. And if they see reason- if you get even a glimmer of it out of them- then you keep working on them. They'll come around. It's a hard loving road sometimes and they will keep making mistakes but "be good to people" is pretty infectious and if they're not driven off, they'll learn and adapt and come up with a solution, same as the rest of us. If there's nothing there after you try to get them to see, then they're a lost cause. Either too stupid or too proud to save. Somfin fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 13:38
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business hammocks posted:I don’t want to ask you specifically to do my homework for me, but I’d like to see these other profiles or interviews. Contra has earned a lot of good will from me by being rigorous and thoughtful. I can be convinced otherwise, but I haven’t yet seen evidence of her making a mistake in reasoning like that. I meant that there were accounts out there of other trans women talking about interacting with him. He interviewed some people for the Zucker piece but none of it ended up being used. Here's Julia Serano and Parker Molloy talking about it. As far as I can tell, this is kind of a continued topic from him. Lots of posts about it. This isn't to say I think Jesse irredeemable or should be shunned, that you shouldn't debate him, that you can't have a professional relationship, or anything like that. But she's saying: I've talked to this guy and I found some of his statements troubling, but he's not a transphobe or a TERF. Which - she can feel how she wants on that, but of course people are going to be upset. People have been dealing with him on this subject for nearly 2 years now. I think she's handled the whole thing pretty poorly.
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Nov 1, 2017 13:51
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BigRed0427 posted:If/when the sex tape between her and the Golden One get's released then I'l entertain that idea Don't tease me
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Nov 1, 2017 14:01
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By god I think she can turn Golden One. That is what I would expect from their sex tape.
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Nov 1, 2017 14:14
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click to hear a republican's brain explode in real time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3gsp3J3HKc&t=3308s
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Nov 1, 2017 15:45
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LOL that's the guy that tweets at trump thinking he can get a pardon for his fraud charges.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:58
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Lovechop posted:click to hear a republican's brain explode in real time: That jerkoff just said poor people will buy $1,000 iPhone because almost all of them have microwaves. 
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Nov 1, 2017 20:12
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What the gently caress are you trying to say with your eyes, Sargon? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZZ08icGvlQ&t=855s
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Nov 1, 2017 21:17
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fallenturtle posted:What the gently caress are you trying to say with your eyes, Sargon? Do you know what they call it in Virginia when you cause someone to have a heart attack during the commission of a crime? Second degree murder. He should look sidelong at that.
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Nov 1, 2017 21:51
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fallenturtle posted:What the gently caress are you trying to say with your eyes, Sargon? God loving dammit. How is he this big of a loving moron?
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Nov 1, 2017 21:56
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BigRed0427 posted:God loving dammit. How is he this big of a loving moron? Too much food, not enough exercise. Anyone got a video summary for those of us unable/unwilling to give views to Sargy?
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Nov 1, 2017 22:16
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BigRed0427 posted:And she's not going to turn into Laci Green. Stop that. If/when the sex tape between her and the Golden One get's released then I'l entertain that idea but...god dammit. Please trust Trans people on this stuff. I agree wholeheartedly with this. I am very aware (mental health issues) how much of an rear end in a top hat and how many wrong opinions I probably have, but it seems like people aren't allowed to be mistaken or an accidental poo poo on occasion without people piling up to go "All of your ideas are fake and you are horrible". It just seems like people who have never truly scrutinised themselves to understand that often you are the rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:47
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Somfin posted:Too much food, not enough exercise. Anyone got a video summary for those of us unable/unwilling to give views to Sargy? He's live-commenting on a video, and it mentions the death of Heather Heyer (the woman who was killed by the nazi in Charlottesville). His immediate response is "How did she die again? Oh yeah, she had a heart attack." [side-eyes at the camera] Which I guess is something they're pushing in the Nazi community? I don't know if it's supposed to be "she got hit by a car, and then completely coincidentally had a heart attack, therefore the Nazi did nothing wrong when he hit her with a car," or "she died of a heart attack and the mainstream media false flag crisis actors Benghazi, therefore that Nazi did nothing wrong," or what.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:52
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fallenturtle posted:What the gently caress are you trying to say with your eyes, Sargon? Fat carl is legitimately a piece of poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:52
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i don't know if the fat guy with the fat guy voice can make jokes about a fat person dying from a heart attack.
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Nov 1, 2017 23:09
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He's not fat, he's just unpleasantly plump.
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Nov 1, 2017 23:20
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Goon Danton posted:He's live-commenting on a video, and it mentions the death of Heather Heyer (the woman who was killed by the nazi in Charlottesville). His immediate response is "How did she die again? Oh yeah, she had a heart attack." [side-eyes at the camera] Wait, what? 
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Nov 2, 2017 01:59
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Goon Danton posted:He's live-commenting on a video, and it mentions the death of Heather Heyer (the woman who was killed by the nazi in Charlottesville). His immediate response is "How did she die again? Oh yeah, she had a heart attack." [side-eyes at the camera] Yeah, the nazis were on damage control non-stop since the attack. First they just spammed claims that it was a black woman, then some random teenager in Michigan, I think they settled on "heart attack" and calling Heather Heyer a fat childless degenerate. To answer your question, it's all of the above, they don't care what actually happened.
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Nov 2, 2017 02:05
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