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First Geist blog is up
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Nov 1, 2017 13:53
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Good stuff here. I appreciate krewes getting some structure and not being just 'we made up an explicitly false religion and all decided to follow it, for reasons.'
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Nov 1, 2017 13:59
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Mors Rattus posted:Good stuff here. I appreciate krewes getting some structure and not being just 'we made up an explicitly false religion and all decided to follow it, for reasons.' I mean, building your own religion is still a big part of having a krewe, but it's more likely to be a syncretism of stuff you dig out of obscure fringe heresies, krewes that came before you, and weird poo poo you've observed in the Underworld directly than made up out of whole cloth, and it's no more "explicitly false" than, y'know, any other religion. Also, the system works whether you (that is, you the players) really groove on teasing obscure theology out of psdeudo-Tertullian and Akhenaten, or just say "we now have a deeper understanding of how and why the Underworld is bad." But the main design goal of krewes is to provide a collective focus for the game--between their own Burdens, investigating their geists' lost humanity, and their own personal entanglements, there's a lot of reasons for Sin-Eaters to spin off in their own directions. Tying your krewe religion to an actionable doctrine helps balance that and give the whole group something to focus on together. We're putting a lot more emphasis on works than faith, at least insofar as the mechanics go.
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Nov 1, 2017 14:36
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It kind of sounds like Geist is to Werewolf what Demon is to Changeling, which sounds great to me.
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Nov 1, 2017 14:50
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GimpInBlack posted:But the main design goal of krewes is to provide a collective focus for the game--between their own Burdens, investigating their geists' lost humanity, and their own personal entanglements, there's a lot of reasons for Sin-Eaters to spin off in their own directions. Tying your krewe religion to an actionable doctrine helps balance that and give the whole group something to focus on together. We're putting a lot more emphasis on works than faith, at least insofar as the mechanics go. I've never seen having personal story goals as a negative. It's one of the aspects that drew me to the world of darkness in the first place. But you're spot on that Sin-Eaters needed something to bind them together. I'm interested in seeing if there's anything above the Krewe tier in terms of just basic communication from one place to the next or if they're only burdened with one level of having to deal with other Sin-Eaters because the ghosts and bigger badder dead things are more than enough social/political to deal with managing. I've always seen those higher tiers as a sort of checks/balance system for the players that BBEGs just don't have the capacity for. It has been a long time since I've read the Geist book, and the most I've ever managed to play it was maybe two sessions, but I was struck by the realization that the Krewe was basically an island in a sea of dead and there was not really anyone to call for basic advice. Then again, maybe this is part of the charm/curse that is being a Sin-Eater. Either way, I'm almost as excited for this project to come out as I am about more mage books. So be prepared to take my money.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:02
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GimpInBlack posted:I mean, building your own religion is still a big part of having a krewe, but it's more likely to be a syncretism of stuff you dig out of obscure fringe heresies, krewes that came before you, and weird poo poo you've observed in the Underworld directly than made up out of whole cloth, and it's no more "explicitly false" than, y'know, any other religion. Also, the system works whether you (that is, you the players) really groove on teasing obscure theology out of psdeudo-Tertullian and Akhenaten, or just say "we now have a deeper understanding of how and why the Underworld is bad." Yeah, I just remember some of the 1e krewe examples being like 'all of our geists are actually Founding Fathers!! or Elvis!!' and it was badly written. This, on the other hand, makes more sense, especially with the more active role the geist itself is taking. Tying in your weirdo ghost cult to actual, actionable beliefs around some actual basic truths ('the Underworld is completely awful and must be fixed somehow') makes things work better.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:26
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I realise that it's a real-life world but I still think "krewe" is the worst find-and-replace substitution for "coterie" in any WoD or CoD game.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:45
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Loomer posted:I'm afraid to touch it, given that NWW directed a bunch of rewrites. I grilled the dev (Neall Raemonn Price) about this, and he says the rewrites were pretty minimal. So far I've seen nothing egregious except a few references to the Sabbat moving eastward looking for antediluvian graves to smash.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:52
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Warthur posted:I realise that it's a real-life world but I still think "krewe" is the worst find-and-replace substitution for "coterie" in any WoD or CoD game. It's right down there with Motley. I would just use group names for birds instead. A Watch of Sin-Eaters, or an Unkindness of Sin-Eaters just has a tongue in cheek flavor to it that I'd expect a more savory writer would ignore.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:53
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeah, I just remember some of the 1e krewe examples being like 'all of our geists are actually Founding Fathers!! or Elvis!!' and it was badly written. The 1e krewe example of Nu-Atheist Calvinists who hung out with Marquis de Sade's funky phantom is definitely not the kind of baseline krewe I wanted to see as the example in Geist 2e.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:58
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TwoWordName posted:The 1e krewe example of Nu-Atheist Calvinists who hung out with Marquis de Sade's funky phantom is definitely not the kind of baseline krewe I wanted to see as the example in Geist 2e. I have some good news for you.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:01
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GimpInBlack posted:I have some good news for you. It's this isn't it? 
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Nov 1, 2017 16:06
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Kurieg posted:It's this isn't it? DAMMIT WHO LEAKED THE DEVELOPMENT DRAFT?
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Nov 1, 2017 16:08
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Krewe is a really good name? Like, it comes from Carnival krewes and really fits the trash culture of Geist.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:12
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It's poking a bear because Scientology doesn't like people mocking their alien ghosts or Tom Krewes.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:16
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Warthur posted:I realise that it's a real-life world but I still think "krewe" is the worst find-and-replace substitution for "coterie" in any WoD or CoD game. Maybe it's because I grew up in South Louisiana but seeing the word "krewe" made me smile and go "neat!".
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Nov 1, 2017 16:22
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The idea of the Geists themselves having mechanical weight and be unleashable is super good and cool. The Haunt system soooouuuunds like a decent way to keep Stats manageable, but adding new Haunts has me wary if some of the extant conceptual redundancies haven't gotten dunked.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:53
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Gumball Gumption posted:Krewe is a really good name? Like, it comes from Carnival krewes and really fits the trash culture of Geist. It's kind of niche though. I had never heard it before Geist 1e so it just came off as a weird misspelling. It seems odd that Sin Eaters would adapt such a specific term and it would disseminate. I don't mind it in the book but I doubt I would use it in play unless it was a New Orleans game. The preview looks very nice though and I'm looking forward to it's release. Between Geist, Deviant, and Scion it looks like Onyx Path will have a good 2019.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:57
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:The idea of the Geists themselves having mechanical weight and be unleashable is super good and cool. The Haunt system soooouuuunds like a decent way to keep Stats manageable, but adding new Haunts has me wary if some of the extant conceptual redundancies haven't gotten dunked. Cutting every Haunt down to 5 powers (and really, one "power" with up to four add-on effects) from 50-odd goes a pretty long way toward eliminating redundancy. neaden posted:It's kind of niche though. I had never heard it before Geist 1e so it just came off as a weird misspelling. It seems odd that Sin Eaters would adapt such a specific term and it would disseminate. I don't mind it in the book but I doubt I would use it in play unless it was a New Orleans game. That's pretty much how it's used in 2e--it's a catch-all term for "Sin-Eater led mystery cult" (and there's an in-setting reason for that), but if you asked most celebrants they'd describe themselves as members of a church, temple, or what have you. It's sort of like how "mafia" has come to be a catch-all term for organized crime syndicates, even those that don't really bear much similarity to the original Sicilian group and a member of, say, the Yakuza probably doesn't describe himself as a mafioso.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:07
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Kibner posted:Maybe it's because I grew up in South Louisiana but seeing the word "krewe" made me smile and go "neat!".
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Nov 1, 2017 17:22
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GimpInBlack posted:That's pretty much how it's used in 2e--it's a catch-all term for "Sin-Eater led mystery cult" (and there's an in-setting reason for that), but if you asked most celebrants they'd describe themselves as members of a church, temple, or what have you. It's sort of like how "mafia" has come to be a catch-all term for organized crime syndicates, even those that don't really bear much similarity to the original Sicilian group and a member of, say, the Yakuza probably doesn't describe himself as a mafioso.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:23
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Warthur posted:Like neaden said, it probably absolutely makes sense for a very local audience but is terrible for a book that they're trying to sell across the entire English-speaking world. Point being, if you've picked up a book called "Geist" it's extremely unlikely that a strangely used word is going to be the thing that puts you off it
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Nov 1, 2017 17:34
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Warthur posted:The difference with the Mafia is that the Cosa Nostra actually did have a wide, international impact which spread the term all over the globe. The term "Krewe" has not broken out of the local sphere in the same way, and in particular hasn't really much traction outside the very specific subculture it arose in. I lived a few streets away from the Notting Hill Carnival for years and never once heard or saw the term; even people who don't pay much attention to organised crime know what the term "Mafia" refers to in a generic sense. I'm talking about within Sin-Eater culture here, not the wider world. Ask the average person on the street and they'll probably call it "that weird cult." Krewe has specifically become a catchall term among the Bound, for cultural and historical reasons.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:37
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Is there anyone who thinks the Underworld is good? I mean, it seems pretty evidently godawful, but is that an opinion so common to those in the know that it's not worth mentioning, or are there pro-Underworld-existing factions out there?
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Nov 1, 2017 18:09
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeah, I just remember some of the 1e krewe examples being like 'all of our geists are actually Founding Fathers!! or Elvis!!' and it was badly written. I think there's some really fun gnostic mystery to weave around the events of his life and death too. Like when he basically charmed his way into being given a DEA badge and forced down a plane. Or the weird martial arts fixation he had that led to a wave of karate fever in the US. on the other hand I do play way more Unknown Armies than WoD right now so thIs tone miiiight be more suited to that game line. TL;DR I am trash and I play with trash and I want to make a little trash religion.
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Nov 1, 2017 18:20
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Poltergrift posted:Is there anyone who thinks the Underworld is good? I mean, it seems pretty evidently godawful, but is that an opinion so common to those in the know that it's not worth mentioning, or are there pro-Underworld-existing factions out there? There absolutely are are on the NPC side, in flavors ranging from "well, this sucks but what's the alternative?" to "I can exploit this for my own benefit" to "this is the correct natural order off things and must be defended." As far as PC splats go, not really. Being opposed to the Underworld is kind of the definition of Sin-Eater. Pilgrims are maybe the closest, with their belief that a post-death pilgrimage through the Underworld should be a path to passing on, but even they recognise that the Underworld as-is is horribly broken. Strange Cares posted:TL;DR I am trash and I play with trash and I want to make a little trash religion. You could do this really well with an Astral-focused mage character, actually. GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 18:26
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Strange Cares posted:So I'm all about exploring dead religions through spooky eyes but this absolutely makes me want to write up a Sin-Eater Krewe where each Geist is some aspect of Elvis as he's seen through pop culture. There's The Poor Boy, The Rebel, The Sex Symbol, The Spectacle and The Husk, just off the top of my head. My last Changeling: The lost game had Glen Miller, Amelia Earhart and Ambrose Bierce as the PCs so like I can't really say anything bad about your trash Elvis religion. (We almost had DB Cooper and Jimmy Hoffa but they never finished their character sheets)
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Nov 1, 2017 18:40
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Strange Cares posted:So I'm all about exploring dead religions through spooky eyes but this absolutely makes me want to write up a Sin-Eater Krewe where each Geist is some aspect of Elvis as he's seen through pop culture. There's The Poor Boy, The Rebel, The Sex Symbol, The Spectacle and The Husk, just off the top of my head. Honestly this sounds like the foundation of a Free Council cabal. Admittedly, one that the Diamond isn't going to invite to any parties, but Elvis Impersonation is absolutely a functional techne praxis by my understanding of techne.
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Nov 1, 2017 19:20
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Poltergrift posted:Is there anyone who thinks the Underworld is good? I mean, it seems pretty evidently godawful, but is that an opinion so common to those in the know that it's not worth mentioning, or are there pro-Underworld-existing factions out there? also GimpInBlack posted:Cutting every Haunt down to 5 powers (and really, one "power" with up to four add-on effects) from 50-odd goes a pretty long way toward eliminating redundancy.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:07
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Dealing with magic through the lens of Elvis in his various stages of life is cool, my problem was when Geist 1e was like 'and your PCs are now claiming that your ghosts are all 1950s rock stars returned (PS they're not)' Fortunately this is not a problem for anyone any more!
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Nov 1, 2017 20:13
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Oh, also the chthonic native beings of the underworld would presumably prefer it to continue existing. So they're probably mad if you want to blow it up.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:15
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:also Shroud lets you do this: https://youtu.be/SPSz7T1c80I Caul lets you do this: https://youtu.be/PYpY_UWRCTk (In other words, Shroud is about making yourself ephemeral and ghostly, Caul is about gross, goopy shapeshifting and body horror shenanigans.)
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Nov 1, 2017 20:20
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Is there still a version of every Haunting for each Key, or do Keys do something besides complicate everything now?
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Nov 1, 2017 20:25
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Mors Rattus posted:Is there still a version of every Haunting for each Key, or do Keys do something besides complicate everything now? Keys do something different now.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:26
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GimpInBlack posted:Shroud lets you do this:
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Nov 1, 2017 20:28
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I liked the key/manifestation idea in concept, but in execution it was clearly the cause of a lot of problems so I’m not too sad to see it go.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:30
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GimpInBlack posted:There absolutely are are on the NPC side, in flavors ranging from "well, this sucks but what's the alternative?" to "I can exploit this for my own benefit" to "this is the correct natural order off things and must be defended." Makes sense. I like my Seers of the Throne-style "but the world refused to change" groups, but I'm also happy to have a game where none of the PCs are expected to say/consider the merit of "the natural order is fine and no one should try to change how the metaphysics work or reduce human suffering, because Twas Not Meant To Be." Poltergrift fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 20:45
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Poltergrift posted:Makes sense. I like my Seers of the Throne-style "but the world refused to change" groups, but I'm also happy to have a game where none of the PCs are expected to say/consider the merit of "the natural order is fine and no one should try to change how the metaphysics work or reduce human suffering, because Twas Not Meant To Be." You have both sides of that in Mage, with the Seers (obviously) and folks like Theumiel, trying to make the world (what they believe would be) a better place. In Forsaken, the latter are more on the Pure side of things, humanity not ready at all for the resurgence of something like Father Wolf or Pangaea. nofather fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 21:52
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Strange Cares posted:TL;DR I am trash and I play with trash and I want to make a little trash religion.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:31
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I'd venture to say most of us in the WoD fan thread are enough fans to know White Wolf did a crazy Street Fighter RPG...but the story behind it is something I never knew, and boy is it exactly what you'd expect. https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/gyjjy3/the-story-behind-the-street-fighter-rpg-you-never-heard-of quote:"I recall there was a world bible, although it didn't have a whole lot beyond some character backgrounds," remembers Bill Bridges, former Werewolf: the Apocalypse developer and a writer on Street Fighter. "One of the appealing things to writers like me was that we could fill in a lot of the world." quote:At any point, Street Fighter could've done the opposite, going with irony and a refusal to accept the goofiness inherent in a world of electric animal people. Today, it probably would have. The Street Fighter RPG we actually have is a marvel of straight-faced ludicrousness, the ultimate earnest martial arts movie which says that, yes, the ninjas, Thai crime ring dabbling in psychics and Soviet wrestlers should all be taken deathly seriously.
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Nov 1, 2017 23:07
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