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SpacePig posted:Early Bleach was very good for a surprisingly long time, but some switch got flipped at the Soul Society arc that immediately turned it into a power levels manga, and it only got worse from there. I got to the beginning of the Vaizard/Arrancar stuff before dropping it. The switch was "battle manga are insanely popular compared to every other genre". The editing department explicitly made Kubo go in that direction and he's been openly, bitterly complaining about it ever since.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:05
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Vigilantes is actually really drat good
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Nov 1, 2017 20:08
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Dog Kisser posted:Makoto is actually really drat good
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Nov 1, 2017 20:09
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Swap her out for Pop-Step
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Nov 1, 2017 20:10
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Vengarr posted:The switch was "battle manga are insanely popular compared to every other genre". The editing department explicitly made Kubo go in that direction and he's been openly, bitterly complaining about it ever since. Bleach was a battle-manga way before Soul Society.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:39
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NO LISTEN TO ME posted:Horikoshi put more details in Uraraka's shoes than he does in her fights heyoooooo What fights?
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Nov 1, 2017 20:41
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ichigo fought stuff but the fighting wasn't really the important part, like with grand fisher for example. it wasn't the constantly escalation of power that tends to be the bread and butter of fightmans until soul society either mha does have a good interpretation of that in that we see early on what 100% looks like and everything else has been building deku up to that point before he can even think about going beyond
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Nov 1, 2017 20:43
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I remember when Ichigo was characterized as someone relatively clever
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Nov 1, 2017 22:01
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Remember when Sado pulled out a pole from the ground to bat at a hollow he couldn't see as a regular dude. Basically early bleach was great.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:08
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Bleach ran the same arc like three, four times? Tite can come up with whatever poo poo reasons for it being poo poo but battle manga can have different structures and go different places. He boxed himself in hard. (early Bleach is insanely overrated fwiw, it would have hit the same hitch) It'll be fair to describe MHA in the same tone when he runs the Chisaki base rescue arc nearly identical again. If Deku loses his powers though, yeah, then get really loving alarmed.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:09
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TheKingofSprings posted:I remember when Ichigo was characterized as someone relatively clever His bio listed the person he respected most as William Shakespeare.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:17
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SpacePig posted:I mean if, like Venngar said, Kubo's hand was forced and his characters basically had to stay in their robes and poo poo for the sake of keeping it a battle manga, then that's not something I can blame him for. Kubo very obviously still cared about drawing good poo poo from what he did in his characters spreads, which were always pretty phenomenal. And Horikoshi very obviously still cares about his art as well, and seems to still care about the story to some extent. But if his heart isn't in it, or his hand is being forced to draw and write something he doesn't want to, then no amount of spectacular art will change that. The classic problem of applying rules to a power system after designing the power system. God it was so dumb when baby Ichigo wrecked a bunch of captains but then they beat way way strong enemies later without powering up at all. e: also pretty quickly Ichigo had like no character. Like what was his main motivation?
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Nov 1, 2017 22:45
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Soul Society was loving excellent and battle shounen as gently caress. It was just handled really poorly after that. Like Orihime is probably the most insanely frustrating female lead I've ever seen. She has such a potentially cool power and literally nothing was done with it ever because she was "too nice" to ever properly fight. Same with Sado. Also all of the random ret-conning of various stuff; like how Sado/Orihime got their powers. I think at some point Urarhara or someone explicitly says the Hoagie gave Sado and Orihime their powers because they both cursed themselves so much for being unable to fight beside Ichigo. But then later I guess they're just fullbringers afterall. My dream version of Bleach would've been it going back to a monster-of-the-week manga for a long time and the supporting cast in the living world developing their own powers and being able to fight hollows, with the Soul Society people maybe showing up at the end for a final serious arc. Kanonji turning out to actually have real potential as a powerful psychic would've been a fun arc.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:47
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Also Aizen's original plan was cool and great but then when he literally planned everything that ever happened it was dumb. I dropped it after they beat Aizen and then I read some synopses years later of some of the later arcs and goddamn it got even worse somehow.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:48
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EmmyOk posted:The classic problem of applying rules to a power system after designing the power system. God it was so dumb when baby Ichigo wrecked a bunch of captains but then they beat way way strong enemies later without powering up at all. yea the vaizard and espada made no sense. they say that the espada should be infinitely stronger than the captains... except they weren't. the vaizards should have been straight up better in every way but everyone except hachi was totally useless trash. ichigo would get power boosts but never actually seemed to get stronger
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Nov 1, 2017 22:50
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Ichigo using eleven different hollow forms to defeat the number 4, meanwhile two captains he beat one before Bankai and one just after effortlessly beat the number 0. "ten Vasto lordes could overwhelm all of Soul Society" anyway a captain beat the number 1 Arrancar who is a vastly powered up Vasto Lorde using only his shikai The Visored were so cool in design and concept it's a shame they were literal trash
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Nov 1, 2017 22:57
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My Hero Academia Manga: My Bankai is 100% PLUS ULTRA Edit: also that Vigilantes was pretty good. Pop step complaining about miniskirts while Hauler's just like 'stare...' is great.
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Nov 1, 2017 23:09
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Hori hopefully is feeling better. He did his first twitter sketch in a long time.
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Nov 2, 2017 02:32
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EmmyOk posted:Ichigo using eleven different hollow forms to defeat the number 4, meanwhile two captains he beat one before Bankai and one just after effortlessly beat the number 0. The Yammy 0 thing makes no sense, but to be fair, I think the databook says that the Espada are ranked by their raw energy output rather than overall combat ability. Shunsui had help from Ukitake against Starrk. I have no problem believing that 10 Starrk/Barragan level guys, plus the rogue Captains, would pose a serious threat to Soul Society.
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Nov 2, 2017 03:13
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EmmyOk posted:The classic problem of applying rules to a power system after designing the power system. God it was so dumb when baby Ichigo wrecked a bunch of captains but then they beat way way strong enemies later without powering up at all. Protecting people because he got his mom killed. (But Lol that was his Grandpa and Aizen) Fabricated posted:
I believe that's what Aizen says and he just makes poo poo up and is strong enough that no one questions it. And if you do he just makes it true with his power anyway.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:16
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didn't that joke "I'm not Aizen, you're Aizen" comic actually play out for real in Bleach a couple years afterwards
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Nov 2, 2017 06:47
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Spiderdrake posted:(early Bleach is insanely overrated fwiw, it would have hit the same hitch)
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Nov 2, 2017 06:49
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I probably enjoyed Soul Society more than this MHA arc.
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Nov 2, 2017 08:56
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Soul Society was some solid shonen. I don't think it's too weird to rate it higher than some of MHA's less good stories.
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Nov 2, 2017 09:00
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Vengarr posted:This wasn't really true until after the SJ editing department forced Kubo to turn Bleach into a battle manga. His heart was really not in it, and it showed.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:42
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but YYH was also a battle manga? also I've never heard this "SJ editors forced Kubo to do anything with Bleach" stuff before.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:50
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When I think back to early Bleach, which to me is soul society and before, I think of the following things: -Very, very boring monster fights. Anime in general has a problem where it is not fun to watch humans fight monsters, which is a shame, and Bleach is no exception. -Generic and underdeveloped cookie cutter characters made to pad out the cast then promptly forgotten. Remember Kon? Don't worry, nobody does. -A setting (soul society) that makes no sense and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. How do people in the afterlife have children? Are those children born dead? I would take an "I don't know" for an answer if at least somebody questioned that. -Blatant power levels bullshit. At one point Ichigo outmaneuvers and tricks Renji but Renji goes "that was a good trick but my spirit level is higher than yours so I win anyway". -Uncharismatic and dull antagonists. Byakuya at least has the "oppressive family authority figure" theme going for him but he's still got a black hole for a personality and Aizen's absurd asspull might have caused an emotional reaction if he'd been around as a character for more than like five minutes. This MHA arc might be the weakest one so far but I'll take another hundred chapters of it before going back to early Bleach.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:59
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Renji lost that fight.
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Nov 2, 2017 11:02
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GimmickMan posted:When I think back to early Bleach, which to me is soul society and before, I think of the following things: Renji lost, Kon was good, Kon was even in the last arc. Hell I'd much rather have any of that 'padded cast' than the ACTUAL padded cast of the Captains, their lieutenants and their ranked seats or their counterparts of Espada and Fraccion and the Other Espada. Power Levels only got stupid after Soul Society. You're saying Ikkaku and Kenpachi were bad antagonists or do they not count for you or something? Mayuri is also good but Ichigo didn't fight him. Only Royalty can have children (why? Who knows.) Kild fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 11:30
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i remember kon
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Nov 2, 2017 11:30
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he was kind of like mineta only angrier and a stuffed toy instead of a bowl of fruit
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Nov 2, 2017 11:33
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Please don't lorecraft Kubo as a Togashi level writer. I really liked Deku punching Chisaki into the sky, it felt really dynamic and instant. I thought the rotated panel gave it a nice sense of vertigo I guess? It was disorienting in a really good way. I don't think Eri allowing Deku to go at 100 percent or if she rewinds him when he dies is a particularly satisfying conclusion to the Sir Night Eye narrative. "Well I didn't think you were the right choice as the successor but now that you've been fighting using Eri's abilities you're actually a rude dude with 'tude".
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Nov 2, 2017 11:38
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Blockhouse posted:I probably enjoyed Soul Society more than this MHA arc.
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Nov 2, 2017 11:45
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It's a bit unfair to judge the Soul Society arc with the hindsight knowledge. Back when it was running it did a great job of setting things up. By introducing a lot of cool concepts and questions. For the purposes in that arc, it was fantastic. It all went to hell after that arc, which is a shame, but back then it was on par with the best shounen series out there.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:00
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Kild posted:Renji lost, Kon was good, Kon was even in the last arc. Hell I'd much rather have any of that 'padded cast' than the ACTUAL padded cast of the Captains, their lieutenants and their ranked seats or their counterparts of Espada and Fraccion and the Other Espada. I stand corrected, I had a memory lapse. Renji lost in the end, yes. My criticism still stands because Ichigo won by raising his power level. I don't know much about the Captains and their Lieutenants so I didn't even go there. To be more precise about the antagonists, my complaint is about the ones that are driving the plot. Ikkaku, Kenpachi and Mayuri were okay but they're just roadblocks and not major antagonists. After his fight, Mayuri decided he was done with this and watched the rest from the sidelines. Kenpachi was even fighting the traitors by the end of the arc. I'll say I liked the Mayuri fight and the Kenpachi vs blind traitor fight though.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:00
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Power Levels are definitely a thing that is in Bleach by Soul Society. No numbers are given but they still exist and Ichigo needing some big last minute training to unlock some ultimate power to stand a chance against him really reminds me of hyperbolic time chamber stuff from dragonball. I don't think all that's really a problem though, in dbz or Bleach, but that's a matter of taste. I don't think Soul Society's the exemplar shonen story or anything it's just a good solid arc. An enjoyable read.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:15
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Mordaedil posted:It's only overrated in the sense that people seem to imply it is the best thing ever, but I think most people just mean it felt like it had the most potential and seemed the most like it could go off in any direction at the time. yea it was good and there was a lot of squandered potential in bleach. the early stuff could have lead to a great shonen but instead it was bleach
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Nov 2, 2017 12:32
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Most of the stuff in the SS arc that might be remembered as bad/dumb only became that in retrospect because of what happens in later, much worse arcs. This can happen to MHA too if Hori isn't careful.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:56
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EmmyOk posted:Please don't lorecraft Kubo as a Togashi level writer. I think that Nighteye being critical and not believing in Deku even after all this would be a good end, because one of the things Deku should have to deal with is the fact that there will always be people second-guessing your decisions, telling you how you should of done it, etc. As much as I love seeing him grow with OfA, I do want the series to have to deal with the unsaid side of being a hero, and that hassle of being in the spotlight. All Might was able to get away from it by basically sacrificing everything to always be doing good, but you can't expect that from a high-school kid.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:27
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I liked that the Ichigo vs. Byakuya fight was more about Ichigo trying to win over Byakuya than it was about defeating him
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Nov 2, 2017 13:47
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