Ask me about being a Traffic Engineer!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about being a Traffic Engineer!

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CopperHound: Feb 14, 2012

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Joining this group has made going to Facebook a joy again.

I thought there was too much Chaff to sort through, so thanks for posting some of the better ones.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 20:29

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# ? May 28, 2024 02:40

vanity slug: Jul 20, 2010

I wake up every day with like 15 NUM4TOT notifications. It's great.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 20:30

Hippie Hedgehog: Feb 19, 2007; Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

What are those?

Anyway, here's a thing someone wrote about roads recently.
https://harpers.org/archive/2017/11/bumpy-ride/

# ? Oct 30, 2017 08:11

nimper: Jun 19, 2003; livin' in a hopium den

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

What are those?

Anyway, here's a thing someone wrote about roads recently.
https://harpers.org/archive/2017/11/bumpy-ride/

New Urbanist Memes For Transit Oriented Teens

it's a facebook meme circlejerk group about transit and urbanism

# ? Oct 30, 2017 15:07

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

Funny thing is, most new urbanists are idiots that do a good job of destroying transit in the name of improving it. Fundamentals like area coverage, layovers and connections take a backseat to headway, headway, headway! Headway doesn't matter when you can't get to your point B via transit or your buses all get piled up at the same intersection. :downs:

They also don't understand the base rule of politics: money talks.

Varance fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Oct 31, 2017

# ? Oct 31, 2017 14:54

nimper: Jun 19, 2003; livin' in a hopium den

Counterpoint: it's a meme group made for shitposting

# ? Oct 31, 2017 15:47

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Also one of the mods is literally works in planning for a major US bus system.

# ? Oct 31, 2017 17:37

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Baronjutter posted:

Also one of the mods is literally works in planning for a major US bus system.

Oh, so they're incompetent then.

# ? Oct 31, 2017 20:45

Peanut President: Nov 5, 2008; by Athanatos

Varance posted:

Funny thing is, most new urbanists are idiots that do a good job of destroying transit in the name of improving it. Fundamentals like area coverage, layovers and connections take a backseat to headway, headway, headway! Headway doesn't matter when you can't get to your point B via transit or your buses all get piled up at the same intersection.

They also don't understand the base rule of politics: money talks.

I'd rather have idiots posting about BRT on facebook than idiots building a 9 lane highway through a nature reserve, personally.

# ? Nov 1, 2017 00:24

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Slate posted:

How Can You Stop Cars From Plowing Into Crowds?
The sturdy posts called �bollards� are our best defense against the use of vehicles as weapons. They�re also the rare anti-terrorism policy that makes cities more pleasant.

After terrorist attacks in Berlin, Barcelona, and Charlottesville, Virginia, local officials in three countries were confronted with the same question: Where were the bollards? Bollard is a fancy word for the sturdy posts deployed in and around cities, generally intended to nudge entitled drivers not to park on the sidewalk, drive in bike paths, or turn into pedestrian plazas. But in recent decades, the bollard has shouldered a new burden: It�s seen as the cheapest, simplest way to prevent terrorists from using vehicles as lethal weapons. City officials around the world are under pressure to install them anywhere a car could potentially plow into a crowd�which is to say, basically everywhere.

�I understand the debate, but this is not practical ... we can�t fill up Barcelona with bollards,� Catalonian minister Joaquim Forn recently told Spanish radio. We can�t put bollards in every Christmas market in Germany, the Berlin police chief explained to reporters in December after a jihadi drove a truck into the fair at Breitscheidplatz, killing 12 people and injuring dozens. �My initial inclination is we should keep striking a balance between public safety in our civic spaces with an eye toward having an open society rather than a closed one,� said Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer a few weeks ago. But if recent incidents of vehicular terrorism are any guide, that defensive post-attack posture will yield to a familiar response across all three cities: Glistening all�es of bollards flanking the roadways. And from an urban design perspective, that wouldn�t be the worst thing.

Counterterrorism is generally hostile to architecture and urban design. After the 1983 bombing of the U.S. embassy in Beirut, for example, the U.S. revised its design protocols to call for suburban, walled embassy compounds set far away from center cities. �We are building some of the ugliest embassies I�ve ever seen � I cringe when I see what we�re doing,� then�Sen. John Kerry said in 2009. Other counterterrorism innovations in public space have included the shuttering of the courtyard at the Washington, D.C., headquarters of the FBI and the phalanx of metal detectors that force fans to line up for a half-hour before entering Yankee Stadium in the Bronx. Fear tends to make places more closed, more distant, and more private. Bollards just might be the exception: A security protocol that could be making the world both a safer and more pleasant place.

Fear tends to make places more closed, more distant, and more private. Bollards just might be the exception.
Rob Reiter is a bollard guy. He�s the chief security consultant for Calpipe Security Bollards, one of about two-dozen major U.S. bollard manufacturers, and the firm that installed the bollards in Times Square that halted the carnage when a rampaging driver drove onto a Manhattan sidewalk in March, killing one and injuring 22. Reiter is also a co-founder of the Storefront Safety Council�whose mission statement is �working to end vehicle into buildings crashes��and has collected more than 10,000 news items about cars running into commercial buildings. �Dunkin� Donuts gets hit about four times a week,� he says. �7-11 gets hit about 1.3 times per day.�

Reiter�s case for bollards is less about terrorism, which remains rare, than about the everyday chaos we accept in exchange for a society where everyone between the ages of 16 and 100 steers a multi-ton chunk of metal around town. �For most folks in my line of work, the thing that crystallized this about vehicles was Santa Monica,� says Reiter. In July 2003, an 86-year-old man at the wheel of a Buick plowed through the Santa Monica farmers market in California, killing 10 people and leaving 63 injured in less than 20 seconds. Defense lawyers said it was �pedal error�; the city and other defendants wound up paying $21 million to settle lawsuits.

Before it was the anti-terror device du jour, then, the bollard was merely a device to help planners reclaim public space from wayward cars. But fear of terrorism drives changes to the built environment in a way that city planners cannot. After Richard Rojas jumped the sidewalk on 42nd Street, prompting fears of another vehicular terrorism attack, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo were on the scene within the hour. And yet Reiter observed: �One killed, 20 injured? That�s an average day in New York [traffic].�

The threat of terrorism is a powerful force for galvanizing changes to public spaces. At first, those changes are ugly, like the scene outside Trump Tower in New York, where dump trucks full of sand lined 5th Avenue during the president�s recent visit. But as time goes on, pressure from business interests and civic groups mounts, and more elegant solutions take their place. The New York Stock Exchange, ensconced by a cavalcade of concrete Jersey barriers along Wall Street after 9/11, is now protected by a row of elegant crystalline Nogo bollards, costing between $5,000 and $8,000 a piece. �A bollard for security is like Chairman Mao�s little black suit�one size fits all,� Nogo architect Rob Rogers told the Chicago Tribune. At the other end of the spectrum of famous American streets, the Las Vegas Strip is installing $5 million of bollards in what county chairman Steve Sisolak has called �a matter of life or death.�

Strong evidence for the alliance between city-builders and counterterrorism experts is on display in Washington, which in addition to serving as the nation�s capital may be the world�s pre-eminent museum of security architecture, from the onerous to the invisible. The Washington Monument is encircled by an award-winning arc of high-security �ha-has,� recessed trenches with roots in English garden design. A good example is the stretch of Pennsylvania Avenue that runs just north of the White House. Shut down in the mid-2000s behind a militarized cordon, it has since evolved into a pleasant and popular public space bounded by rows of bollards.

�What they indirectly did was create a people street,� says Gabe Klein, the former D.C. transportation commissioner. �I sort of like it! I find it to be a nice, peaceful place to hang out. People play roller hockey there.� Other times, the city took the lead, and federal security officials nodded their heads in approval, like when planners installed a bike lane lined by plastic bollards on 15th Street adjacent to the Treasury Department. �We thought they�d hate it,� Klein recalled. Instead they said, �We�ve been looking at how to push traffic away from that building, and we like that idea.�

Washington, D.C., may be the world�s pre-eminent museum of security architecture, from the onerous to the invisible.
Not everyone loves the bollard. Bollarded landscapes like the U.S. Capitol, which is said to be surrounded by approximately 7,000 four-foot bollards, can be monotonous. The period after 9/11 in particular was marked by an overreaction, says Jean Phifer, an architect and former president (between 1998 and 2003) of the New York City commission that reviewed streetscapes. �When people saw how extreme too many bollards were, they used other elements like newsstands, trees, benches so you had a more mixed urban streetscape thing going on.�

That was a change that Klein pushed for during bollard-mania, too. �We didn�t want it to feel like a police state, or a place that people should be fearful,� he says. These days, you�re just as likely to see planters functioning as vehicle barriers�flowers against terrorism.

Bollards can be beautiful, insists Andrew Choate, the world�s foremost bollard photographer (Instagram: SaintBollard). He argues that architecture really begins with bollards. �They�re the first thing you see. You can look at them as an invasive species of architecture, but if you incorporate them into the environment they can become something meaningful, not only as protection but as design and aesthetics,� he explains. �Whether the top is tapered or bulbous or has some insignia, there�s certainly a lot of freedom in there.�

(Continued)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/metropolis/2017/08/bollards_are_our_best_defense_against_the_use_of_vehicles_as_weapons.html

So obviously bollards are in the news with box trucks running over pedestrians and cyclists being such an easy thing to do. Las Vegas announced that they're planning on lining parts of the Vegas Strip with bollards, at the cost of nearly $5 million. My question is where do these costs come from, and how affordable is it to put these bollards in throughout urban areas? $5 million for 700 bollards comes to more than $7,000 per bollard. If you assume that you need to place a bollard every five feet on both sides of a street, then it covers an length of only 1,750 ft - only a small percentage of the entire length of the strip. So obviously they're only covering the most important locations. But from poking around online, it looks like you can easily buy a steel pipe bollard for $100 - $150 when buying in bulk. Why are these bollards so expensive, and what are more affordable ways of protecting sidewalks, bike lanes, and buildings?

http://www.allcostdata.info/detail.html/027201001/6%22-Steel-Pipe-Bollard,-Concrete-Filled-Painted,-8%27L-in-13%22D-x-4%27Dp-Hole

Now obviously there's labor costs, but according to some online estimates, it looks like they come to about half the cost of installation. It seems to me that if you estimate that the "average" American roadway costs around $5 million per mile, and that you'd need about 2,000 steel pipe bollards to line that roadway on both sides, then adding basic bollards to a road would increase costs by only about ten percent (an additional $520,000). Is my math off here?

Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 2, 2017

# ? Nov 2, 2017 00:11

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

Kaal posted:

So obviously bollards are in the news with box trucks running over pedestrians and cyclists being such an easy thing to do. Las Vegas announced that they're planning on lining parts of the Vegas Strip with bollards, at the cost of nearly $5 million. My question is where do these costs come from, and how affordable is it to put these bollards in throughout urban areas? $5 million for 700 bollards comes to more than $7,000 per bollard. If you assume that you need to place a bollard every five feet on both sides of a street, then it covers an length of only 1,750 ft - only a small percentage of the entire length of the strip. So obviously they're only covering the most important locations. But from poking around online, it looks like you can easily buy a steel pipe bollard for less than $100 when buying in bulk. Why are these bollards so expensive, and what are more affordable ways of protecting sidewalks, bike lanes, and buildings?

This is the Vegas strip you're talking about. Do you honestly expect them to put in a steel pipe or an old piece of railroad track?

Many parts of the strip already feature decorative fencing or k-rail to keep pedestrians and cars separated along Las Vegas Blvd. They're likely going to finish the job in similar fashion. Examples:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1143584,-115.1729289,3a,75y,228.99h,84.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sscicWbrVSUi03k0HeTBEzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1013407,-115.1727216,3a,75y,18.97h,89.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWtnTSkMNAvIil2FARFf4Kw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Nice, low-profile bollards that double as benches:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9494566,-82.460866,3a,43.5y,193.57h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr0HtUVCGfidsR1FOT0L5zQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The cheap poo poo:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9740735,-82.5027155,3a,75y,330.29h,97.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBf_9ZrJ3d0STDK_1D7z1_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9440517,-82.4459848,3a,42.5y,157.76h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMB3uxyJ9B2191pQFIB44Ug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Varance fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Nov 2, 2017

# ? Nov 2, 2017 00:35

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Varance posted:

This is the Vegas strip you're talking about. Do you honestly expect them to put in a steel pipe or an old piece of railroad track? Most of the strip is already covered in decorative fencing to keep pedestrians out of Las Vegas Blvd.

I mean, I understand that, it's just amazing that the costs are so high when you look at what they're installing. These things look like totally normal bollards:

http://news3lv.com/news/local/construction-kicks-off-to-install-new-safety-bollards-on-the-las-vegas-strip

These are the bollards that Wall Street installed, which were apparently $5000 - $8000 each:

http://www.allenmetals.com/project/wall-street-bollards/

Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Nov 2, 2017

# ? Nov 2, 2017 00:44

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

Those look to be twice as thick as standard bollards. Probably an element of price gouging in here as well, since it's a rush order.

Anyway, here in Tampa, we're building a new land bridge to connect one of the bay bridges with an expressway. This is Florida, and our expressways have to be decorative. This is exactly what a rail structure would look like on the same road, but we're building it for cars instead. Unfortunately, it will be a traffic clusterfuck from day one, as it's only one lane wide in each direction with some horrible merges.

Here, have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVLiYuMOXIc

Varance fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 2, 2017

# ? Nov 2, 2017 00:51

Watermelon Daiquiri: Jul 10, 2010; I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

Varance posted:

Those look to be twice as thick as standard bollards. Probably an element of price gouging in here as well, since it's a rush order.

Anyway, here in Tampa, we're building a new land bridge to connect one of the bay bridges with an expressway. This is Florida, and our expressways have to be decorative. This is exactly what a rail structure would look like on the same road, but we're building it for cars instead. Unfortunately, it will be a traffic clusterfuck from day one, as it's only one lane wide in each direction with some horrible merges.

Here, have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVLiYuMOXIc

oh tampa *sigh*

# ? Nov 2, 2017 01:15

ColonelDimak: May 1, 2007; Guardian of the Salsa

Are the left hand exits along the Katy toll road in Houston an epic troll of Houston?
As far as I can tell all they do is gently caress up traffic for everyone with minimal speed gains for those paying the toll.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 01:34

Lobsterpillar: Feb 4, 2014

Part of the costs associated with those bollards is likely to include: temporary traffic management if they need to do anything on the road, underground services location / excavation for the foundation of the bollards, plus all of the other things mentioned.
The bit you see above ground is only part of it - if its expected to stop a vehicle its going to need a strong foundation.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 06:42

Queen_Combat: Jan 15, 2011

Also, it's the loving strip. I bet that 24-36 inches below the surface, there's a ton of poo poo that they'll have to mark out, map, and avoid/plan for. And the most expensive part of any installation, humans, are required at every step.

Traffic management is a huge burden. You've got to make a plan, get that plan approved, hire the subcontractor (Trafficade :argh:

), do evaluations, print business signs for the signposts, deal with accidents/lawsuits due to the traffic redirect, etc.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 06:45

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Lobsterpillar posted:

Part of the costs associated with those bollards is likely to include: temporary traffic management if they need to do anything on the road, underground services location / excavation for the foundation of the bollards, plus all of the other things mentioned.
The bit you see above ground is only part of it - if its expected to stop a vehicle its going to need a strong foundation.

And the other side of the coin would be those fancy bollards pictured on wall street. They're usually not the primary protection so they don't need to be as firmly secured. And their above ground parts are bulky heavy pointy metal too which does a good enough job providing resistance the way a sheared off standard bollard couldn't.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 06:50

El Mero Mero: Oct 13, 2001

Can anyone here explain to me why it is that this spot (the Macarthur Maze) in the bay area is bogged down even at like 10:00PM with no accidents?

Everyone bitches about bay area traffic, but I think this is one of the few spots that genuinely bothers me because it seems be poo poo regardless of how many people are on the road.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 07:26

Hippie Hedgehog: Feb 19, 2007; Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Varance posted:

Nice, low-profile bollards that double as benches:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9494566,-82.460866,3a,43.5y,193.57h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr0HtUVCGfidsR1FOT0L5zQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Those look like they just popped down some concrete blocks on the ground, though. Are they really anchored? Less bollards, more like jersey barriers, then.

In the incident in Stockholm last year, there were similar concrete blocks supposedly protecting the pedestrian street, but the driver just plowed through them. He was driving a stolen lorry, and those blocks were only designed to stop a car.

quote:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170607/sweden-strikes-political-anti-terror-deal-after-stockholm-attack

The Swedish Contingencies Agency (Myndigheten f�r samh�llsskydd och beredskap, MSB) has been tasked with reviewing protection for pedestrians and others in the public sphere, in busy places like streets and squares. Bollards were mentioned as a measure to prevent truck attacks like the one in Stockholm's pedestrian Drottinggatan street.

Varance posted:

The cheap poo poo:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9740735,-82.5027155,3a,75y,330.29h,97.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBf_9ZrJ3d0STDK_1D7z1_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9440517,-82.4459848,3a,42.5y,157.76h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMB3uxyJ9B2191pQFIB44Ug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Those, on the other hand, may well be properly anchored to stop even lorries. Can't tell that from above-ground, I guess.

Here is the BBC making a seemingly very positive video about a certain brand of high-security bollard. Crash is around the 4:00 mark. I'm sure this costs a fortune, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAkCypsQIQk

# ? Nov 2, 2017 10:45

The Deadly Hume: May 26, 2004; Let's get a little crazy. Let's have some fun.

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Those look like they just popped down some concrete blocks on the ground, though. Are they really anchored? Less bollards, more like jersey barriers, then.

In the incident in Stockholm last year, there were similar concrete blocks supposedly protecting the pedestrian street, but the driver just plowed through them. He was driving a stolen lorry, and those blocks were only designed to stop a car.

Reminds me of the concrete cubes they've dropped around Melbourne (Australia) in the past year, which I think could also only stop a car. Being Melbourne of course they've been painted by randoms and people have even sewed and knitted covers for them.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 10:57

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Honestly I imagine most installations are like highway guardrails - designed to handle the results of crashes on the road or some drunk swerving into the sides. But not usually designed and planted such that they'll stand up to a large vehicle aiming to go right through.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 14:28

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

This is one of those topics that really doesn't need to be discussed in great detail on the Internets, but the bollards going in on the strip are top ASTM spec and specialized for install anywhere. Top rated, stop everything in its tracks at 50 MPH type deal. Most joe average bollards without a steel base 12 inches into the ground aren't quite as good, and can be overpowered. Ground stone-style bollards will cause extreme damage to and very much slow down a rig, but a speeding rig will penetrate 20-30 meters before it stops, same as bollards that don't have that underground steel.

# ? Nov 2, 2017 18:21

Hippie Hedgehog: Feb 19, 2007; Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Yeah, if a terrorist learned the exact specs for bollards in a particular spot, they might choose to attack some place else instead. Oh, wait, that's exactly the point of putting up bollards in the first place.

I mean, if you're a terrorist scouting the Internet for good locations to attack, I don't think you're the kind of attacker that will be deterred by clever traffic engineering. You just take your attack some place else.

# ? Nov 3, 2017 09:07

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Varance posted:

Those look to be twice as thick as standard bollards. Probably an element of price gouging in here as well, since it's a rush order.

Anyway, here in Tampa, we're building a new land bridge to connect one of the bay bridges with an expressway. This is Florida, and our expressways have to be decorative. This is exactly what a rail structure would look like on the same road, but we're building it for cars instead. Unfortunately, it will be a traffic clusterfuck from day one, as it's only one lane wide in each direction with some horrible merges.

Here, have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVLiYuMOXIc

I mean...it looks like they'll at least keep the normal road as-is once it's done so it's not the worst idea even if it really should be 2 lanes each way. It at least siphons the through-traffic off of the road so the local traffic has less to contend with...at least until someone goes full Florida-Man and blocks one or both directions with a wreck and you now have people stranded 30 feet up in their cars

# ? Nov 3, 2017 10:08

Watermelon Daiquiri: Jul 10, 2010; I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

I'm going to give the video the benefit of the doubt about the size of the cars, which means that technically it could fit two lanes and keeps a sizable shoulder to allow for accidents

# ? Nov 3, 2017 11:27

Devor: Nov 30, 2004; Lurking more.

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

I'm going to give the video the benefit of the doubt about the size of the cars, which means that technically it could fit two lanes and keeps a sizable shoulder to allow for accidents

Yeah, those cars are WAY too big. The close one down on the ground is completely filling up a lane, which is at least 10', probably 11' wide. Passenger cars are ~6 to 6.5 feet wide, so the graphics person responsible for that probably screwed up the car size to make them fill the lanes. They're usually pretty good about getting the lane and bridge sizes consistent, because someone hands them a set of plans/CADD file showing all the dimensions.

# ? Nov 3, 2017 13:41

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

Remember, this is Florida we're talking about. Traffic wrecks that shut down 2-3 lanes are an everyday thing. The main elevated deck is 3 reversible lanes wide plus medians, no divider, so incidents are manageable. When fire rescue can't get to an incident on this elevated structure in a one lane scenario, they're going to have to block both directions up top with standard engines, and possibly lanes down below with aerial equipment (and its twice as tall as it should be to appease local businesses, so quints are the minimum response).

The I-4/Selmon connector has the same setup, and has similar problems. It's our answer to the time-tested question of "How can we make Malfunction Junction worse?" (I-4/I-275 interchange)

# ? Nov 3, 2017 18:04

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Varance posted:

The I-4/Selmon connector has the same setup, and has similar problems. It's our answer to the time-tested question of "How can we make Malfunction Junction worse?" (I-4/I-275 interchange)

I mean, could be worse. Could be underground instead of above ground.

# ? Nov 3, 2017 19:40

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

I've always wondered if extensive underground segments scare off some of the normal traffic demand that would otherwise use the exact same size and quality of roads.

# ? Nov 3, 2017 23:53

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

fishmech posted:

I've always wondered if extensive underground segments scare off some of the normal traffic demand that would otherwise use the exact same size and quality of roads.

Claustrophobia is a thing, so yes. Some people won't use a subway because of that. Same thing with aerial transportation modes like planes, monorails and gondola lifts wen it comes to acrophobia.

That's an argument I had with Busch Gardens management at one time. The train always got the shaft in favor of the skyride. Problem is, a lot of people don't want to ride the skyride. It's both claustrophobic AND acrophobic. I'd have packed trains all day long, 350-400 passengers with not a seat to spare, and two extra trains sitting in the yard... but no manpower to run them. Meanwhile, I see skyride employees screwing around on platform, doing nada with gondolas going by empty. You'd tell people to go ride the skyride, but half of them would give you a "Hell no!" answer.

# ? Nov 4, 2017 04:04

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Varance posted:

Claustrophobia is a thing, so yes. Some people won't use a subway because of that. Same thing with aerial transportation modes like planes, monorails and gondola lifts wen it comes to acrophobia.

That's an argument I had with Busch Gardens management at one time. The train always got the shaft in favor of the skyride. Problem is, a lot of people don't want to ride the skyride. It's both claustrophobic AND acrophobic. I'd have packed trains all day long, 350-400 passengers with not a seat to spare, and two extra trains sitting in the yard... but no manpower to run them. Meanwhile, I see skyride employees screwing around on platform, doing nada with gondolas going by empty. You'd tell people to go ride the skyride, but half of them would give you a "Hell no!" answer.

The Skyride is basically the best way to get across the park, for this very reason. Only losers and foamers ride the train.

# ? Nov 4, 2017 04:26

Varance: Oct 28, 2004; Ladies, hide your footwear!; Nap Ghost

Well, that and the 5 MPH average speed these days. Back in '09, the train was faster than the skyride. If I were on duty and we weren't running every 10 mins on a 3 train operation, I would start timing radio calls to see who was dragging their feet. 40/20/10 or bust. Now, it's more like 70/35/20. That kind of attitude is why SeaWorld is going down the tubes, not Blackfish.

I have tons of theme park stories, but that's for another thread. :v:

# ? Nov 4, 2017 05:10

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Varance posted:

Well, that and the 5 MPH average speed these days. Back in '09, the train was faster than the skyride. If I were on duty and we weren't running every 10 mins on a 3 train operation, I would start timing radio calls to see who was dragging their feet. 40/20/10 or bust. Now, it's more like 70/35/20. That kind of attitude is why SeaWorld is going down the tubes, not Blackfish.

I have tons of theme park stories, but that's for another thread.

# ? Nov 6, 2017 03:17

Eclogite: Mar 15, 2010

Instead of spending thousands of dollars on a single bollard, why not buy 1-2 ton flat-faced boulders for a few hundred dollars each from a local quarry and cement them to the ground? Simple, quick, much cheaper, and aesthetically pleasing. :effort:

# ? Nov 6, 2017 06:45

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Eclogite posted:

Instead of spending thousands of dollars on a single bollard, why not buy 1-2 ton flat-faced boulders for a few hundred dollars each from a local quarry and cement them to the ground? Simple, quick, much cheaper, and aesthetically pleasing.

Some places have done that, I think. Especially parks blocking non-motorized paths.

# ? Nov 6, 2017 07:28

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

Eclogite posted:

Instead of spending thousands of dollars on a single bollard, why not buy 1-2 ton flat-faced boulders for a few hundred dollars each from a local quarry and cement them to the ground? Simple, quick, much cheaper, and aesthetically pleasing.

You want to spend MY TAX DOLLARS on ROCKS?

# ? Nov 8, 2017 04:13

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

This has probably been covered before, but as my now one lane of traffic crawled along a road with cones up for 2 miles before coming to about 100 feet of actual roadwork, then another mile before the cones stopped and I could rage-pass everyone on the right:

Why does road construction work seen to involve closing dramatically more road than will be worked on that night? If construction companies are being fined based on the amount of road closure they require, why not have a huge truck with blinding lights 200 yards back from the actual work with cones tapering into there?

For that matter, why not only close the sections that are being worked on or drying, then have a couple guys go back or forwards to lay out more cones to expand the space as needed later on?

# ? Nov 8, 2017 05:14

Queen_Combat: Jan 15, 2011

Because people rage pass on the right when they think there's no construction and hit and kill construction crews. So people need the huge fuckoff warning, and even then still gently caress it up.

# ? Nov 8, 2017 05:21

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# ? May 28, 2024 02:40

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Why does a construction zone with 70mph construction-area speed limit signs and no lane closures cause people in Miami to brake down to 39mph in the left lane?

People are loving stupid, and they also drive.

# ? Nov 8, 2017 05:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about being a Traffic Engineer!

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