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Owlofcreamcheese posted:None of that is true, presidents don't have any legal immunity to anything. Just a very strong and longstanding agreement among everyone of "it'd be hosed up if we tried a sitting president lets all agree to just back off that". A couple of presidents have been charged with minor crimes or had lawsuits they had to face but it's just a rare thing we as a society decided was bad form, but it's not actually legally codified or anything. This is wrong. The constitution is unclear on the matter and it has never been decided in court. The prevailing view by most legal experts is that a sitting President cannot be indicted. Impeachment must happen first. WorldsStongestNerd fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 16:24
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Vladimir Putin posted:This is confusing. So the alt-right is basically fighting one of its own by masquerading as another group and having them protest against Cernovich? An attempt to paint people who hate the alt-reich as pedophiles. Nothing more to it.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:26
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There Bias Two posted:The most frustrating part is that the article ends with the statement, "So we may just have to live with a president indicted for collusion with a foreign power." You know as well as I do that such a scenario would mean nothing less than war. There won't be a civil war over the conservative voters living in their own version of reality. There's too much at stake and too many have too much to lose. The country is way more likely to succumb to one-party authoritarian rule than spasmically resist it violently. If there is a civil war it will happen much later due to some other systemic causes and this might be the prelude to that, but it's not the direct cause. I think people are optimistically expecting way more resistance out of large swathes of the population to undemocratic development when the brutal cold fact is that people are too busy to do that working multiple jobs and mainly care about keeping themselves and their kids clothed and fed. So a one-party authoritarian Trumpist government will not cause a violent revolution, but said government abandoning the 99% to their own devices while ruthlessly exploiting them might, over a decade or two. Gimme a hand, is this a lot of time or not? For a complex white-collar case it doesn't sound like a lot.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:30
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SulphagneSocialist posted:Gimme a hand, is this a lot of time or not? For a complex white-collar case it doesn't sound like a lot. Presumably the arrest was only done at the tail end of a long investigation, so now they only need time to go over what was obtained during the arrest.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:35
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Chilichimp posted:They've been calling Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas for a very long time, you guys. They perceived her as a threat and they slandered her and the name has stuck. In actual reality you can just blow her up by pointing out that she bought a home foreclosed on by a big bank and flipped it for profit. That's an interesting context of the word "slander" though.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:36
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Phoix posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/926456409260285952 just more  about winning since he has literally nothing else to show it. Everything's been a flop, scandal, or hated by an ever growing margin. His election has driven a wedge through the people deeper than the Vietnam war did to the point even politicians from his own party that worshipped him are bailing out.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:40
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SulphagneSocialist posted:There won't be a civil war over the conservative voters living in their own version of reality. There's too much at stake and too many have too much to lose. The country is way more likely to succumb to one-party authoritarian rule than spasmically resist it violently. Well yeah, it'd take awhile to get to that point for sure. People have to become sufficiently uncomfortable first.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:43
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There Bias Two posted:Well yeah, it'd take awhile to get to that point for sure. People have to become sufficiently uncomfortable first. I'm sorry if I came off too strong, I just see a lot of #resistance people online who are like "if Mueller gets fired we'll take to the streets" and, that's just not gonna happen. And even if you marched on Washington in the millions, Congress would just shrug behind an army of policemen and soldiers.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:45
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There Bias Two posted:Well yeah, it'd take awhile to get to that point for sure. People have to become sufficiently uncomfortable first. And there lies the problem. Most of the poo poo that Trump is pushing for doesn't directly hard most of America in the short term. It's only when the country starts to collapse that majority of people will really start to care, and by that point it's probably too late.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:45
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Presumably the arrest was only done at the tail end of a long investigation, so now they only need time to go over what was obtained during the arrest. That's their estimate of how much time they'll spend presenting their case in court, not how soon can they be ready to go.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:47
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On that note, I'd like to welcome the thread to day 150 of Infrastructure Week
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Nov 3, 2017 16:49
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SulphagneSocialist posted:I'm sorry if I came off too strong, I just see a lot of #resistance people online who are like "if Mueller gets fired we'll take to the streets" and, that's just not gonna happen. And even if you marched on Washington in the millions, Congress would just shrug behind an army of policemen and soldiers. Unironically, ignoring Mueller finding Trump guilty would cause dozens upon dozens of copycats to the baseball game shooter. It's about the only thing that could cause an actual resurgence in left-wing terrorism in the US.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:50
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Was this the thread that freaked out about last month's bad job's numbers?SulphagneSocialist posted:Gimme a hand, is this a lot of time or not? For a complex white-collar case it doesn't sound like a lot. There was a theory that Mueller might have jumped the gun when Trump asked that one guy to resign. It's more difficult for Trump to end an investigation that has indictments and Trump, being an idiot, has now claimed the money laundering charges prove there was no collusion. That means he can't easily end the investigation as he's already kind of defacto approved of the charges. I don't think he's even implied Manafort is innocent like he's claimed other people are. So Mueller may not have been completely ready to indict. Hence the delay.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:50
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:This is wrong. The constitution is unclear on the matter and it has never been decided in court. The prevailing view by most legal experts is that a sitting President cannot be indicted. Impeachment must happen first. As someone mentioned grant had his speeding ticket. Clinton had his lawsuit trial. There has never been a legal immunity. Just a decorum immunity that it'd be too weird to use it much. Absolutely nothing in the constitution even hints at presidents having legal immunity.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:52
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Republicans may try to stick a repeal of the individual mandate into their tax bill. Surely that won't cause an problems.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:55
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The start of the solution is admitting the to the problem. America is already in a state of Civil War. Faster the centrist, sane people and left gets this get this faster the US recovers. You need to win first then sort your poo poo out. There is no moral high ground anymore. It has been flatten into a crater and trying to rebuild it while it is getting shelled, gassed and mined is pointless. The Democrats are willing to govern and can govern, but they must abandon any idea of bipartisanship and bring about massive changes instead of putting out the burning building every time they get into power. They must win at any cost if they truly believe they want to save America.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:56
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Do any of the major news orgs know about healthcare.gov's 12 hour shutdown every Sunday?
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Nov 3, 2017 16:56
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PhazonLink posted:Do any of the major news orgs know about healthcare.gov's 12 hour shutdown every Sunday? I think Maddow talked about it a while back, but I haven't seen much else about it anywhere else.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:58
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Lol prepare for Trump tweets about Bergdahl.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:58
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oohhboy posted:The start of the solution is admitting the to the problem. Okay that's great and all but when we say "civil war" we don't mean that we are metaphorically going to take back the government, we mean literal violent uprising.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lol prepare for Trump tweets about Bergdahl. A dishonorable discharge carries basically all the social stigma of jailtime and more, with all the associated employment issues, so he's hosed regardless.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:04
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Al Borland Corp. posted:https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/746080905761034240 Deposition? For what? When was this? drat, no way clinton's presidency survives this
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Nov 3, 2017 17:07
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Okay that's great and all but when we say "civil war" we don't mean that we are metaphorically going to take back the government, we mean literal violent uprising. Why not? It is an option on the table now considering how god awful the current trajectory is. If violence is what it takes then that is the solution. Longer you keep putting up with this extreme political violence higher the cost of actual violence and death.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:08
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empty whippet box posted:Deposition? For what? When was this? Trump University, I think. Over a year ago.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:09
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oohhboy posted:Why not? It is an option on the table now considering how god awful the current trajectory is. If violence is what it takes then that is the solution. Longer you keep putting up with this extreme political violence higher the cost of actual violence and death. Unfortunately, the side with all the gun-toting fascists has a high chance of winning, despite being outnumbered
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Nov 3, 2017 17:10
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Pakled posted:A dishonorable discharge carries basically all the social stigma of jailtime and more, with all the associated employment issues, so he's hosed regardless. No free meals either. His only real hope for making a living would be to write a book about it but imagine him ever trying to show his face in public after that. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 17:10
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/926481563214376961 On the plane
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Nov 3, 2017 17:14
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Isn't it just Scavino tweeting from his account?
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Nov 3, 2017 17:15
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PhazonLink posted:Do any of the major news orgs know about healthcare.gov's 12 hour shutdown every Sunday? Sadly because there are so many incompetent computer janitors out there every single time the topic comes up you have a few idiots willing to say "Well I run cloud computing for a fortune 100 company and that sounds completely normal. We shut out systems down weekly just like they do!  " And most reporters don't understand tech enough to really get it is bullshit.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:15
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i would love to hear him try to explain how it was rigged the connection is pretty tenuous - basically, Hillary bailed them out so she had outsized influence - and while I'm still not sure exactly how bad it was I do know that Donna Brazile is exaggerating
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Nov 3, 2017 17:16
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Rex-Goliath posted:Yep. If this happens it's basically the beginning of the end to the American experiment. They've spent decades delegitimizing every intellectual institution we have and now we're seeing the end-game of that. I'm hoping that we can recover from this but I'm not optimistic. I hate to say this but I think a lot of it has to do with this generation moving away from newspapers as their primary news source (whether it’s hard copy or digital copy). I’m sorry but you should not be getting your news from Facebook twitter or reddit or email or whatever horrible source is out there. Even TV news is better. People should understand the value of trusted news sources like the NYTimes, Washington Post, etc.... I think it’s no coincidence that these traditional sources have really declined in the last 5-8 years and the emergence of the ease of foreign manipulation of the American populace via these unvetted and questionable news sources (Facebook, Reddit, twitter, etc....)
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Nov 3, 2017 17:18
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Man this has been going on for decades. The fix is to go back in time 30-40 years and teach people critical reasoning skills in school so they have the ability to figure this poo poo out for themselves. Or to put it another way, we're boned.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:19
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Ague Proof posted:Right wing blogger Jenna Abrams, who has 70,000 followers, does not exist, was created by St. Petersburg troll farm  pretty sure I shitposted on some of her threads
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Nov 3, 2017 17:21
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uh oh https://twitter.com/AP/status/926473310086541314
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Nov 3, 2017 17:22
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Mozi posted:Man this has been going on for decades. The fix is to go back in time 30-40 years and teach people critical reasoning skills in school so they have the ability to figure this poo poo out for themselves. No just restore the newspapers as a main source of information. If you’re not getting the right information you can’t even use your reasoning skills to make a good decision. Garbage in garbage out.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:22
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theflyingorc posted:i would love to hear him try to explain how it was rigged He couldn't even know, he just heard about it on Fox News. I mean, what kind of chump President even reads up on stuff, pshaw.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:23
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Fake News Network isn't an actual thing, so this checks out.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:23
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I think he paid enough by being imprisoned for 5 years in a hellhole.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:23
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Mozi posted:Man this has been going on for decades. The fix is to go back in time 30-40 years and teach people critical reasoning skills in school so they have the ability to figure this poo poo out for themselves. My cousin is a high school teacher, and had to attend a seminar for a media literacy course that's going to be rolled out in a lot of schools over the next few years, and from what he told me it sounds pretty legit. Unfortunately, I think it's an AP level class, which probably won't actually help all that much in the long run
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Nov 3, 2017 17:24
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The judge previously mentioned he'd take Trump's comments about Bergdahl into consideration so expect some really fuckin' angry tweets.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:25
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