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Quorum posted:A national holiday would not meaningfully benefit most working class people, you'd need a national day where businesses are required to offer people the whole day off, which isn't impossible but would be a staggeringly huge endeavor. or vote early by mail. voting should be a two week thing and if you can't manage to find a loving stamp and send in your ballot then maybe you should be fined. e: this is all hypothetical because i'm not sure compulsory voting would be a good thing for the good guys
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Nov 3, 2017 20:34
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Rappaport posted:"lol US isn't Scandinavia there's only four people there" and all that, but you do realize this is a thing some industrialized nations do, right? Why should the government subsidize the creation of more business majors/MBAs?
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Nov 3, 2017 20:36
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you've forced the millions of detached nonvoters to glance at a ballot
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Nov 3, 2017 20:37
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No Butt Stuff posted:e: this is all hypothetical because i'm not sure compulsory voting would be a good thing for the good guys This is my stance. Sure, hypothetically mandatory voting seems ideal for us because Dems win when turnout is high, but I think a shitload of of the non-voting public are idiots who would be easily swayed by conservative bullshit. Absolutely I'm in favor of mail in voting, early voting, and paid voting holiday. Make it easy as gently caress to vote everywhere, but not mandatory.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:37
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No Butt Stuff posted:or vote early by mail. You do realize that the United States is currently a country where ~42 million people are below the poverty line, millions more are poor in practice, and many of them work long hours at hard jobs with no flexibility? “Having free time” is a privilege in our corporate nightmare world, friend. Broadly speaking, more people voting is a good thing for non-conservatives. I just remain skeptical that a system of mandatory voting wouldn’t be used to harm minorities and the poor in a country with a proven track record of using voting regulations to do just that. “Oh sorry, we didn’t receive your vote on time. You now have a bill.”
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Nov 3, 2017 20:38
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Lightning Knight posted:You do realize that the United States is currently a country where ~42 million people are below the poverty line, millions more are poor in practice, and many of them work long hours at hard jobs with no flexibility? in this context you are arguing against something that would take 45 seconds and 45 cents (hell include a postage included envelope to return the ballot)
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Nov 3, 2017 20:40
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No Butt Stuff posted:in this context you are arguing against something that would take 45 seconds and 45 cents (hell include a postage included envelope to return the ballot) What happens when someone loses it, or their mail is stolen, or etc. I really don’t see the value in implementing a system that would be very easy to abuse to harm the most vulnerable in a country that routinely, explicitly uses the voting system to harm the poor and minorities. I also can’t imagine we wouldn’t see the votes of non-white people conveniently disappear with more frequency that white people.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:43
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i dont think your skepticism is unjustified at all, I'm simply observing that mandatory voting has been employed in a country nearly as lovely the US with regards to minority rights and the poor, and its been very effective in getting people to vote
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Nov 3, 2017 20:43
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Lightning Knight posted:What happens when someone loses it, or their mail is stolen, or etc. You drop the ballot in a mailbox. How are they gonna know which envelopes to lose? If they get to a collection/counting area and the barcode is fed in, it would just show they had voted. This is like arguing that you should never issue parking tickets because the meter might have eaten someone's quarters
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Nov 3, 2017 20:44
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Any flat fine is regressive as gently caress. Just expand voting to the Friday before through the 2nd Tuesday and require that everyone have at least one day off in that time frame.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:47
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I generally like mandatory voting but if we're going to advocate radical change to the US voting system it's not something I'd choose to focus on. And lol if you think they wouldn't practice redlining on undesirable districts. We were able to pick up all the mail from the white suburb but we missed a lot in the black part of the city. Just the way it goes . . .
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Nov 3, 2017 20:47
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No Butt Stuff posted:You drop the ballot in a mailbox. How are they gonna know which envelopes to lose? If they get to a collection/counting area and the barcode is fed in, it would just show they had voted. You really don’t seem to understand how pervasive historically the usage of voting regulations has been to poo poo on minorities and the poor. Also arguably our entire system of parking and traffic tickets is discriminatory and poorly conceived, soooooo. Calibanibal posted:i dont think your skepticism is unjustified at all, I'm simply observing that mandatory voting has been employed in a country nearly as lovely the US with regards to minority rights and the poor, and its been very effective in getting people to vote This is fair.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:47
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Lightning Knight posted:What happens when someone loses it, or their mail is stolen, or etc. if you don't vote, you get a letter telling you that you didn't vote and to pay a 20 dollar fine. you can then write to the voting commission and explain why you were unable to vote. if there is a "valid and sufficient" reason your vote never came through, you're exempt from the fine. (this post is not intended as an argument for or against mandatory voting, just as information.)
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Nov 3, 2017 20:48
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Lightning Knight posted:You really don’t seem to understand how pervasive historically the usage of voting regulations has been to poo poo on minorities and the poor. how the gently caress is parking discriminatory? and yes I understand the history of how voting regulations have been abused but i think you use that to bake protections into a new system (especially when you're doing something as radical as instituting mandatory voting), not use it as an excuse for inaction.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:49
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Potato Salad posted:I mean, depending on how twisted your media consumption has become in the last two years, you could absolutely believe 💯% that he's among the worst people alive. Potato Salad posted:I've been given a 24h probe for this before, not it's right so I'll say it again: Potato Salad posted:I'm so loving furious with you right now that I'm nearly frothing. It's been fascinating watching the paranoia develop and escalate into psychosis. Ogmius815 posted:Obama was a good president though. Ogmius815 posted:This is what you don't understand about the dead-ender leftist crowd. For them, how you campaign matters much MORE than boring poo poo like how many felons get their voting rights back. These people are motivated exclusively by opportunities for self righteous caterwauling, and these opportunities are created mostly by superficial nonsense like campaigns. What matters is getting to feel morally superior and telling others about that feeling. A leftist would rather have a "pure" candidate who does nothing than a less pure candidate who does a lot of good things because of how the pure candidate makes them feel. This guy too, though the smug arrogance is interfering with the patterns. Calling Northam out on adopting Trump's racial rhetoric is "self-righteous caterwauling" now, which is one of the more impressively delusional takes I've seen all week.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:51
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No Butt Stuff posted:how the gently caress is parking discriminatory? As noted, flat fees are inherently regressive. A 50 dollar parking ticket means a lot more to someone who makes 400 dollars a week than to someone who makes 4,000. There was a very good article a few weeks back about poor people entering cycles of fines because of parking situations near their work, losing their licenses, and having to drive illegally to keep working to pay off the fines. It’s never as simple as we wish.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:52
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Calibanibal posted:you've forced the millions of detached nonvoters to glance at a ballot “Awesome! I can vote for Kid Rock!”
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Nov 3, 2017 20:57
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OTOH, fines are probably the most humane enforcement mechanism we have, and parking enforcement is a thing that needs to exist. Yes, it's tougher when you're poor, but so is interacting with literally every other aspect of the government.
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Nov 3, 2017 20:58
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No Butt Stuff posted:how the gently caress is parking discriminatory? In a poor area where I used to live street parking was every 1st and 3rd Wednesday on one side and every 1st and 3rd Friday on the other. It was that way for ~2 square miles. If you left town, boom, ticket. In richer neighborhoods it alternates weeks so 1st and 3rd on one side and 2nd and 4th on the other. Longer trips need more planning but day to day business travel isn't affected.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:06
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You know how DT's election is evidence that being an awful person nets free advertising from the news?? And how big money donors don't want the DNC to move leftward and will spend against it? It makes it sound like in addition to entryism, lefties need to diversify their propaganda to include propaganda of the deed. Knocking over banks and flinging the cash at people is pretty classic social banditry. Support with graffiti and narcocorridos.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:08
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Rockopolis posted:You know how DT's election is evidence that being an awful person nets free advertising from the news?? And how big money donors don't want the DNC to move leftward and will spend against it? It makes it sound like in addition to entryism, lefties need to diversify their propaganda to include propaganda of the deed. Knocking over banks and flinging the cash at people is pretty classic social banditry. Support with graffiti and narcocorridos. So basically the left needs to become a socialist mafia.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:17
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Crabtree posted:So basically the left needs to become a socialist mafia. Also Payday needs a Bernie mask.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:24
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Rockopolis posted:Worked for Stalin, certainly. Or the revolutionary societies in China. Or unions! It “worked” for the Soviet Union or PRC in the very limited sense that they were able to materially improve the conditions of many people at the expense of millions of lives and survive outside attempts to destroy them, but not in the sense that I would ever characterize those countries as role models for the ideal socialist state.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:26
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SKULL.GIF posted:It's been fascinating watching the paranoia develop and escalate into psychosis. Hey look, Skull.gif jumped at an opportunity for self righteous caterwauling.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:26
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Not going to lie, that low-content personal attack felt kinda good, I can see why it's so addictive.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:30
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Pages ago, someone said that the AFL CIO withdrew support from the Dems. Is that true? I can't find anything on google that isn't from 2011.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:35
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Potato Salad posted:Not going to lie, that low-content personal attack felt kinda good, I can see why it's so addictive. i have to assume there's a hell of a rush in dismissing people upset by democratic candidates openly embracing racism as "self-righteous," the alternative is that the people who do so are genuinely just terrible people.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:37
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gowb posted:Pages ago, someone said that the AFL CIO withdrew support from the Dems. Is that true? I can't find anything on google that isn't from 2011. They drafted a resolution with unspecific language calling for distancing from lesser of the two voting and the creation of a new labor party. In practice it’s essentially a warning, not material action.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:39
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gowb posted:Pages ago, someone said that the AFL CIO withdrew support from the Dems. Is that true? I can't find anything on google that isn't from 2011. not in any real sense, no. they passed a resolution that basically warned the dems not to take the union vote for granted and demanded a return to pro-worker politics. there is, however, nothing that would translate that resolution into action. so for now it's basically a press release. nothing substantial has changed.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:39
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Lightning Knight posted:It “worked” for the Soviet Union or PRC in the very limited sense that they were able to materially improve the conditions of many people at the expense of millions of lives and survive outside attempts to destroy them, but not in the sense that I would ever characterize those countries as role models for the ideal socialist state.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:39
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Rockopolis posted:While that is doubtless true, I was being specific when referring to it working for Stalin, in that he went from being a cobbler's son to being the Tsar of the Russian empire like a fairytale hero. He was also a shitter all things considered and I wouldn’t look to him as a role model any time soon.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:40
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remember, everyone: it is important to remain decorous and civilized in your discussion of democratic candidates. when one of them announces Mexicans are a lesser class of human being than white people, in order to avoid accusations of "self-righteous caterwauling" please limit your criticisms to privately questioning the specific word choice involved. anything more than that is Letting The Terrorists Win.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:40
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectProject/status/926222450836361216 Filthy centrist vote looking good so far, good work YourBoyFancy! 
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Nov 3, 2017 21:44
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Lightning Knight posted:He was also a shitter all things considered and I wouldn’t look to him as a role model any time soon. Good and bad, it's probably worth analyzing his successes - and failures.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:51
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volts5000 posted:Wife is sending me articles about Brazile backtracking and how they got the years wrong. Apparently, they're saying that the public has already seen the Joint Fundraising Agreement because it was in the Wikileaks dump. I know some shady poo poo happened in the primary, but I don't know what to think. I doubt Brazile's publishers would've gone through the hassle over something so easily disprovable, but Cruz and Huckabee get to publish bullshit all of the time. I just don't know. What am I missing? https://twitter.com/ahumorlessfem/status/926252308068958208%5C If only Bernie had known the primary was a charade all along, maybe this could have been avoided?
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Nov 3, 2017 22:07
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kind of a bizarre argument to make that they were hamstrung from disbursing that money to state parties when the dnc recently argued successfully in court that they're not legally obligated to follow any of their own internal bylaws, nor that there should be any expectation from state party fundraisers that any money raised for hvf will ever come back to local orgs
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Nov 3, 2017 22:17
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Ze Pollack posted:remember, everyone: it is important to remain decorous and civilized in your discussion of democratic candidates. gently caress, which right wing "no u" talking point did this all stem from again, the Latino Victory Fund ad? The sanctuary cities that don't exist in Virginia? I feel like I'm missing something here, because there seems to be something substantive driving the claims in this thread. So far, all I've found is the typical: -Republican candidate runs horrifyingly racist ads for weeks -Right gets called out for being racist fucks -Right finds a way to take something out of context or just straight up lies. Regardless, the message spreads like disease online, attack dog variants of the left pick it up as an attack of opportunity. This kept happening during most special elections earlier this year, so please someone explain to me why Northam is very very racist. I have an open mind on this; I'm looking for something I had to miss recently. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 22:20
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The Muppets On PCP posted:kind of a bizarre argument to make that they were hamstrung from disbursing that money to state parties when the dnc recently argued successfully in court that they're not legally obligated to follow any of their own internal bylaws, nor that there should be any expectation from state party fundraisers that any money raised for hvf will ever come back to local orgs Contracts and internal bylaws are very different things.
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Nov 3, 2017 22:22
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Potato Salad posted:This kept happening during most special elections earlier this year, so please someone explain to me why Northam is very very racist. I have an open mind on this; I'm looking for something I had to miss recently. Because he said he would support a ban on sanctuary cities, from what I can tell. Did he say something more?
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Nov 3, 2017 22:23
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Because he said he would support a ban on sanctuary cities, from what I can tell. Did he say something more? That can't be all. People are full-bore equating the two candidates or at the very least posting "I'd proudly write someone in" in a race where Gillespie is basically running on the Stars and Bars. Like, there's a voice clip somewhere released today and I didn't see it. Or Northam has a loving awful vote in his history that's just been brought up. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 22:31
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