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Ytlaya posted:So while I actually agree with the general logic of "staying home in the general election doesn't help anything," I can't help but wonder why the same people who complain about lack of leftist support virtually never direct criticism towards Democratic politicians. It's like you don't hear or see when people poo poo on the Dems. Or something. You aren't totally wrong, I think there's a perception issue. For example, I never really see you talk about lovely fuckwad republicans.... Maybe because we both take that for granted.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:31
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Potato Salad posted:It's like you don't hear or see when people poo poo on the Dems. Or something. You aren't totally wrong, I think there's a perception issue. For example, I never really see you talk about lovely fuckwad republicans.... Maybe because we take that for granted. Potato Salad... is learning? Like yes, obviously people on the left oppose horrific Republicans, that's why we want good Democrats to vote for. Voting for horrific Democrats doesn't really cut it.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:32
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shrike82 posted:lol at people who were jerking off about Tulsi being one of the good dems Not sure what your point is with this one. Is supporting Berghdahl cool just because it pisses off Trump?
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Nov 4, 2017 15:34
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Potato Salad posted:It's like you don't hear or see when people poo poo on the Dems. Or something. You aren't totally wrong, I think there's a perception issue. For example, I never really see you talk about lovely fuckwad republicans.... Maybe because we both take that for granted. That's because there's basically no Republicans to talk to here, but there are plenty of centrist Dems that I would love to see finally get it, which is why I keep trying. I legit wonder if it's an income thing. Am I wrong in assuming that the JCs and Nevvy Zs of the world are making six figures? That would explain the total and overwhelming resistance to the slightest leftist movement. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 15:38
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SimonCat posted:Not sure what your point is with this one. Is supporting Berghdahl cool just because it pisses off Trump? It's because Tulsi Gabbard is somehow a tankie and jerking off about R Toops, which is pretty impressive honestly Also the man is mentally ill and was tortured for five years, throwing him in jail wouldn't help anybody, but would appeal to authoritarians desperate to punish someone who broke the rules.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:45
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Hot take, guys, but Trump making it a campaign promise to have Bergdahl executed and that resulting in Bergdahl getting off with time served isn't a reason to attack people in the military for being upset that he got off with time served. ~Trump~ hosed that up for them, so feel free to point that out.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:45
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WampaLord posted:That's because there's basically no Republicans to talk to here, but there are plenty of centrist Dems that I would love to see finally get it, which is why I keep trying. False consciousness is a hell of a drug, comrade.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:47
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Quorum posted:It's because Tulsi Gabbard is somehow a tankie and jerking off about R Toops, which is pretty impressive honestly She's a Veteran who is pissed off that a dude skated on desertion charges. I really don't see the problem there.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:52
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SimonCat posted:She's a Veteran who is pissed off that a dude skated on desertion charges. I really don't see the problem there. He was tortured for five years and is being kicked out with a dishonorable, denying him medical and psychiatric support and severely damaging his job prospects. Someone having a background that inclines them to want him to suffer more than that does not excuse the desire to inflict additional suffering. Tulsi Gabbard sucks.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:54
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Quorum posted:He was tortured for five years and is being kicked out with a dishonorable, denying him medical and psychiatric support and severely damaging his job prospects. Someone having a background that inclines them to want him to suffer more than that does not excuse the desire to inflict additional suffering. Tulsi Gabbard sucks. Along with pretty much every Veteran or active service member I know, by this logic.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:11
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Chilichimp posted:Along with pretty much every Veteran or active service member I know, by this logic. I mean... yes? Time served is a very appropriate punishment in this case, Bergdahl was inappropriately admitted to a military that used him and broke him. He deserves our pity as a society, not to be broken further.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:18
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Chilichimp posted:Along with pretty much every Veteran or active service member I know, by this logic. I, too, have lost some respect for the judgement of a few vets I know based off of their reaction to this ruling. They should be mad at Trump for recklessly loving up Bergdahl's prosecution, not the poor guy that got tortured by the Taliban for five years.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:23
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Quorum posted:I mean... yes? Time served is a very appropriate punishment in this case, Bergdahl was inappropriately admitted to a military that used him and broke him. He deserves our pity as a society, not to be broken further. Inappropriately admitted? Can you elaborate on that? He rose to the rank of Staff Sergeant. You don't do that by being someone who's unmotivated, a gently caress-up, or has no desire to be there. While anyone with any measure of empathy can see what Bergdahl's been through and conclude "time served and dishonorable discharge is fair", to be devoid of empathy for what veterans and service members feel about the situation seems pretty callous. Zeno-25 posted:I, too, have lost some respect for the judgement of a few vets I know based off of their reaction to this ruling. They should be mad at Trump for recklessly loving up Bergdahl's prosecution, not the poor guy that got tortured by the Taliban for five years. I'm with you on this, but you have to remember that to service members this is a deserter who was tortured by the Taliban for five years. He's a monumental piece of poo poo to that community. Veterans and service members want him punished not because he deserted, but because of how his desertion affected his fellow soldiers. I'm not familiar with any specific people who died trying to find him, but I've seen enough people reference that to at least acknowledge it's possible, though I still need to confirm it. One of my college frat brothers was in his Battalion in Afghanistan and yeah, they went through some serious poo poo trying to get this guy back.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:33
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Chilichimp posted:While anyone with any measure of empathy can see what Bergdahl's been through and conclude "time served and dishonorable discharge is fair", to be devoid of empathy for what veterans and service members feel about the situation seems pretty callous. "If you were truly empathetic, you'd be empathetic to the people demanding blood" is certainly a fresh argument, i'll give you that.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:35
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Well, if he had stayed in and completed his term of enlistment, he'd be lumped in with all the other baby killers. As it is, he's become a political cause to line up behind. Leftists and Democrats are just as fickle about the troops as Republicans.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:38
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WampaLord posted:"If you were truly empathetic, you'd be empathetic to the people demanding blood" is certainly a fresh argument, i'll give you that. Right. Explanatory factors are not exculpatory. I can understand why, say, suburban white people are afraid of the spooky browns, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to block the extension of bus lines and vote for Republicans. I get it. The military instills a certain mindset that leads people to demand blood. But they don't deserve to get it, because this is a human being and we ought to try to be a better society than that.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:38
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WampaLord posted:"If you were truly empathetic, you'd be empathetic to the people demanding blood" is certainly a fresh argument, i'll give you that. "Wanting punishment" and "demanding blood" is a pretty big gap to cross, but hyperbole isn't anything new. The thing about vets and service members... they know politics of command is bullshit. They're not going to start protesting for him to be put down, but they'll grumble good and long about it. Quorum posted:Right. Explanatory factors are not exculpatory. I can understand why, say, suburban white people are afraid of the spooky browns, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to block the extension of bus lines and vote for Republicans. I get it. The military instills a certain mindset that leads people to demand blood. But they don't deserve to get it, because this is a human being and we ought to try to be a better society than that. Warrior ethos and esprit decor are the same thing as ignorance and racism... only in US pol, gat dam. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 16:45
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Chilichimp posted:"Wanting punishment" and "demanding blood" is a pretty big gap to cross, but hyperbole isn't anything new. Are we going to pretend the American prison system isn't uniquely awful because you want to play semantics? Quorum posted:this is a human being and we ought to try to be a better society than that. loving this
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Nov 4, 2017 16:45
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Chilichimp posted:Hot take, guys, but Trump making it a campaign promise to have Bergdahl executed and that resulting in Bergdahl getting off with time served isn't a reason to attack people in the military for being upset that he got off with time served. You're optimism about human nature is impressive. The redhat brigade isn't blaming the Anger Mango because of his actions. They're calling for the murder of both Berghdal and the commie pinko liberal traitor judge that let him go because it hurts 'real America'. It's being used as a rally point for the cult of personality to further incite distrust against anything that does not portray absolute, servile obedience to Chief Pussy Grabber. Like the law.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:50
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WampaLord posted:Are we going to pretend the American prison system isn't uniquely awful because you want to play semantics? The UCMJ is all kinds of bullshit, but it's also discrete from the US prison system. We ought to be better as a society. I can't disagree. I don't mind him getting "time served" as a prisoner of the enemy. At the same time, he's been kicked out of the army with no job prospects and no benefits. I hope that dude's gonna be okay, because the hard part for him starts now. No money, on insurance, and a pile of issues that will require continued counselling. LIVING with what he's been through with nothing will not be easy. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 16:56
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bird food bathtub posted:You're optimism about human nature is impressive. The redhat brigade isn't blaming the Anger Mango because of his actions. They're calling for the murder of both Berghdal and the commie pinko liberal traitor judge that let him go because it hurts 'real America'. Dude, -gently caress- the redhat brigade. The Venn diagram of dipshits calling for blood and veterans/service members isn't a single circle, and one is not contained within the other.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:57
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Isn't five years of torture enough of a punishment?
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Nov 4, 2017 17:02
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I feel like the dishonorable discharge and likewise ruination of his future is the least of Berghdal's problems right now. An attempt on his life doesn't seem all that unthinkable and I have no idea when it's actually going to happen but it's only going to get more likely as the right wing loses its mind as an accelerating pace.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:05
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Chilichimp posted:esprit decor 
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Nov 4, 2017 17:05
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Chilichimp posted:
Soldiers on the radio are talking about how they don't really right for country or ideas it's just fighting for each other and a sort of brotherhood. It's loving terrifying. That's the kind of attitude that should have died at Nuremberg. "I don't care why I'm killing brown people, I'm just doing it out of a sense of comraderie.". It's loving terrifying and people treat it like a given.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:12
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Net neutrality will come under vote on November 22nd. That's when they will strip away the regulation protecting us from isps charging us through the roof. There is a site that made a phone mod that makes it easy to call all your representatives. If you don't want to be charged for ridiculous amounts of money for no reason, please call your representatives. https://www.battleforthenet.com/#bftn-action-form
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Nov 4, 2017 17:16
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Chilichimp posted:Warrior ethos and esprit decor are the same thing as ignorance and racism... only in US pol, gat dam. I'm not sure what you're even arguing here anymore. You've already conceded that he doesn't need to be punished further, you just seem to be upset that people are saying soldiers and vets who want him punished are wrong. Like, is this a tone argument or something? Would it help if I said they're probably not bad people for wanting him punished further, they're just motivated by the desire for punishment which is a darker feature of the human psyche?
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Nov 4, 2017 17:19
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lol
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Nov 4, 2017 17:28
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Quorum posted:I'm not sure what you're even arguing here anymore. You've already conceded that he doesn't need to be punished further, you just seem to be upset that people are saying soldiers and vets who want him punished are wrong. Like, is this a tone argument or something? Would it help if I said they're probably not bad people for wanting him punished further, they're just motivated by the desire for punishment which is a darker feature of the human psyche? I'm saying stop attacking veterans for "thinking he got off light" and stating it publicly.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:29
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Chilichimp posted:Along with pretty much every Veteran or active service member I know, by this logic. I'm a veteran and yeah anyone who thinks 5 years of torture isn't enough to inflict on anyone definitely sucks Chilichimp posted:I'm saying stop attacking veterans for "thinking he got off light" and stating it publicly. No.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:44
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VitalSigns posted:I'm a veteran and yeah anyone who thinks 5 years of torture isn't enough to inflict on anyone definitely sucks I'm a veteran and I think he got off light. So there.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:46
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SimonCat posted:I'm a veteran and I think he got off light. And I'm not going to shy away from saying you're a lovely person for it
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Nov 4, 2017 17:49
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VitalSigns posted:And I'm not going to shy away from saying you're a lovely person for it And you're a self-righteous twat.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:51
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SimonCat posted:And you're a self-righteous twat. Bergdahl is free to live his life and there's nothing you can do about it, shitbag
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Nov 4, 2017 17:54
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SimonCat posted:And you're a self-righteous twat. Lmao go gently caress yourself, you always settle on the worst opinions. Bergdahl is a loving moron but the only reason he was ever in that position is because of our country’s stupid forever wars, and now he’s a felon with no job prospects, no healthcare, and a third of the country wants to murder him - after spending years getting tortured. But nah, let’s add on. Gotta make sure the country knows Democrats are tough on crime, motherfuckers. PS he was promoted to Staff Sergeant mostly in absentia, he was a PFC when he was captured. Definitely cool and good to punish the rank and file for the sins of command, right proper thinking there.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:58
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Shbobdb posted:Soldiers on the radio are talking about how they don't really right for country or ideas it's just fighting for each other and a sort of brotherhood. That's what they've always fought for. You should be way more worried about people that fight for ideals.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:00
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SimonCat posted:And you're a self-righteous twat. Jesus christ, you're a lovely person. Hasn't the man suffered enough?
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Nov 4, 2017 18:00
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SimonCat posted:I'm a veteran and I think he got off light. turns out you're a lovely person!
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Nov 4, 2017 18:01
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VitalSigns posted:Bergdahl is free to live his life and there's nothing you can do about it, shitbag Ok, that harms me not at all. I think he got off light, but it's not slowing me down. You seem pretty worked up about it though.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:06
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