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Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.
Yeah what everyone else said. The people who are well compensated are the ones who won't get dicked around by management and then stick around at the same job doing the same work for the same inappropriate pay.

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a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
Thanks dudes. I updated my resume today at work and started looking at places to work in Reno where I'd like to move.

I work for a large company and I know most people don't make any money staying in the same position long but even if I move somewhere internal I feel like I'll be leaving $ on the table.

Mr Newsman
Nov 8, 2006
Did somebody say news?

a dingus posted:

Thanks dudes. I updated my resume today at work and started looking at places to work in Reno where I'd like to move.

I work for a large company and I know most people don't make any money staying in the same position long but even if I move somewhere internal I feel like I'll be leaving $ on the table.

Just be careful about doing things like that at work. No reason why you can't do it at home. Finding a new job can take a while (and it can be super fast too), you don't need to give your employer a reason to axe you before you're ready to move on.

Maybe it's just my lovely company but there's stuff in the employee handbook that forbids job searching at work.

liz
Nov 4, 2004

Stop listening to the static.
I'm not sure this is the right thread to post in as I'm not going to negotiate my offer because it's actually pretty good, I really just need a general opinion...

My offer seems above average (from what I've looked at on a few sites) for someone like myself with no experience in this particular field. They said they are willing to train and this was an add on role not one they were filling from a previous employee. There also seemed to be a sense of urgency that I could start asap... Is any of this a red flag? I'm just wondering why they are willing to pay so much for someone they would have to train?

I probably sound paranoid but I'm coming from a retail banking background where I've never made an actual liveable wage so things seem almost too good to be true...

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
Probably what you think is an overpayment is in fact an underpayment, because you lack the proper context.

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
I disclosed to a recruiter what I would like to make, have I screwed myself already? I asked if she was going to disclose this to the potential employer before I answered and she said no. She used this number to figure out what jobs I might be interested in. I realize that these people can hook me up but at the same time I don't trust them.

Edit* the caveat being I only have a rough idea what I am worth and half of this endeavor is to figure out what I can get paid

a dingus fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 5, 2017

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


a dingus posted:

I disclosed to a recruiter what I would like to make, have I screwed myself already? I asked if she was going to disclose this to the potential employer before I answered and she said no. She used this number to figure out what jobs I might be interested in. I realize that these people can hook me up but at the same time I don't trust them.

Edit* the caveat being I only have a rough idea what I am worth and half of this endeavor is to figure out what I can get paid

If she’s a good recruiter she’ll use it for what she said and not disclose it to future employers. If she’s a bad recruiter she’ll tell you she didn’t but will do it anyways and you’re 0-1 before you start negotiating.

If she’s on Michael Page/Robert Half (not sure which one it was again) level then she’ll call your current employer and tell them you’re looking for another job while showing your boss several resumes of people who will do your current job for less money than you’re doing it for now.

Bottom line: never tell people what you (want) to make unless you know the recruiter very well and are 200% positive he/she will not gently caress you over for a quick buck.

Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.
Did you pay the headhunter anything?

If you didn't (you didn't), then you're the product, not the consumer, and they represent the person who is paying them.

Don't work with recruiters, this recruiter will almost positively gently caress you over to the advantage of prospective employers.

teen phone cutie
Jun 18, 2012

last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself

LochNessMonster posted:

If she’s on Michael Page/Robert Half (not sure which one it was again) level then she’ll call your current employer and tell them you’re looking for another job while showing your boss several resumes of people who will do your current job for less money than you’re doing it for now.

:aaaaa: No fuckin way

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

Did you pay the headhunter anything?

If you didn't (you didn't), then you're the product, not the consumer, and they represent the person who is paying them.

Don't work with recruiters, this recruiter will almost positively gently caress you over to the advantage of prospective employers.
They can be valuable in landing interviews, but yeah, don't trust them further than you can spit. They are not your friend.

Zauper
Aug 21, 2008


a dingus posted:

I disclosed to a recruiter what I would like to make, have I screwed myself already? I asked if she was going to disclose this to the potential employer before I answered and she said no. She used this number to figure out what jobs I might be interested in. I realize that these people can hook me up but at the same time I don't trust them.

Edit* the caveat being I only have a rough idea what I am worth and half of this endeavor is to figure out what I can get paid

The good news is that there are a ton of recruiters out there. Work with a different one, and don't make the same mistake!

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe

Zauper posted:

The good news is that there are a ton of recruiters out there. Work with a different one, and don't make the same mistake!

I've had 4 or 5 try to call me in just a couple days but most of them seems lovely.

Never gonna tell anyone my $$ again.

teen phone cutie
Jun 18, 2012

last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself
Quick question about bringing up a salary in a final round interview.

I get that the basic idea is to get the employer to disclose a number first, but is there any good way into leading the conversation that way if they don’t want to be the one to say the first number?

For example, what would i do in this situation:

:11tea: Employer: What would you like as a target salary?

:kiddo: Me: I’m definitely looking for market range and I’d like to hear about all the benefits, etc before making a decision on that

:11tea: Employer: *talking about benefits and package*

:kiddo: Me: Ah okay. Is there a salary range this company had in mind for this position??

:11tea: Employer: What number did YOU have in mind?

At that, point I’m not really sure how to control the conversation. Am i overthinking this?

Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Grump posted:

Quick question about bringing up a salary in a final round interview.

I get that the basic idea is to get the employer to disclose a number first, but is there any good way into leading the conversation that way if they don’t want to be the one to say the first number?

For example, what would i do in this situation:

:11tea: Employer: What would you like as a target salary?

:kiddo: Me: I’m definitely looking for market range and I’d like to hear about all the benefits, etc before making a decision on that

:11tea: Employer: *talking about benefits and package*

:kiddo: Me: Ah okay. Is there a salary range this company had in mind for this position??

:11tea: Employer: What number did YOU have in mind?

At that, point I’m not really sure how to control the conversation. Am i overthinking this?

If someone's that cagey about disclosing the salary alotted that position, I'd highball them.

Either they'll give you a number you're happy with, or they're gonna be enough of a dick about negotiating down from that, that you now know enough to cut ties and move onto the next opportunity.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

My wife has a position through a consulting firm (Tek Systems) and they called her this morning to cut her hourly rate by 3%, saying that the client company is cutting rates across the board and they don't have a choice. It seems that their stance is she has to sign a new contract at the lower rate by Friday.

Anyone have any insight into likely outcomes if she simply said that she won't accept the lower rate, and she can be done effective immediately if they can't keep paying her the rate she agreed to when she took the contract? I assume there's plenty of profit built into these things that if she really decided to take a stand it would work out just fine, but it's hard to tell since I've never worked on that side before. We also don't really care too much if they call her bluff, she doesn't need to work and this job is really boring and stupid.

Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Droo posted:

My wife has a position through a consulting firm (Tek Systems) and they called her this morning to cut her hourly rate by 3%, saying that the client company is cutting rates across the board and they don't have a choice. It seems that their stance is she has to sign a new contract at the lower rate by Friday.

Anyone have any insight into likely outcomes if she simply said that she won't accept the lower rate, and she can be done effective immediately if they can't keep paying her the rate she agreed to when she took the contract? I assume there's plenty of profit built into these things that if she really decided to take a stand it would work out just fine, but it's hard to tell since I've never worked on that side before. We also don't really care too much if they call her bluff, she doesn't need to work and this job is really boring and stupid.

Either:

a) they'll call her bluff and she won't be working at a job that compensates inadequately

OR

b) they'll cave and she won't be working at a job that compensates inadequately

Does her contract communicate any minimum time (e.g. 3 months) that the hourly rate agreed upon up front will be paid for?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

Does her contract communicate any minimum time (e.g. 3 months) that the hourly rate agreed upon up front will be paid for?

Nope, nothing like that. I don't see anything that prevents them from simply terminating employment effective immediately if she refuses to sign the new contract at the lower rate.

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

Grump posted:

Quick question about bringing up a salary in a final round interview.

I get that the basic idea is to get the employer to disclose a number first, but is there any good way into leading the conversation that way if they don’t want to be the one to say the first number?

For example, what would i do in this situation:

:11tea: Employer: What would you like as a target salary?

:kiddo: Me: I’m definitely looking for market range and I’d like to hear about all the benefits, etc before making a decision on that

:11tea: Employer: *talking about benefits and package*

:kiddo: Me: Ah okay. Is there a salary range this company had in mind for this position??

:11tea: Employer: What number did YOU have in mind?

At that, point I’m not really sure how to control the conversation. Am i overthinking this?

Make sure beforehand to get an idea of what the market value is for that position. Ask for like the high end of that plus 10% from glassdoor or indeed (for example if it's 70-85k, ask for 93k or something) and make sure you say this is based on your research of comparable salaries for similar positions. That way they really have no cause to be flippant about that and now they're on the defensive. Just my opinion though.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

Grump posted:

Quick question about bringing up a salary in a final round interview.

I get that the basic idea is to get the employer to disclose a number first, but is there any good way into leading the conversation that way if they don’t want to be the one to say the first number?

For example, what would i do in this situation:

:11tea: Employer: What would you like as a target salary?

:kiddo: Me: I’m definitely looking for market range and I’d like to hear about all the benefits, etc before making a decision on that

:11tea: Employer: *talking about benefits and package*

:kiddo: Me: Ah okay. Is there a salary range this company had in mind for this position??

:11tea: Employer: What number did YOU have in mind?

At that, point I’m not really sure how to control the conversation. Am i overthinking this?

:11tea: "What would you like as a target salary?"
:kiddo: "lol, a million bucks. Are we negotiating an employment offer?"

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

fantastic in plastic posted:

:11tea: "What would you like as a target salary?"
:kiddo: "lol, a million bucks. Are we negotiating an employment offer?"

Literally* this if you are otherwise secure and comfortable in your current employment.

*Without the 'lol'.

zynga dot com
Nov 11, 2001

wtf jill im not a bear!!!

A dossier and a state of melted brains: The Jess campaign has it all.
Does anyone have any good resources for estimating your fully-loaded total comp? I’m considering an offer to give up a W-2 position for an hourly 1099 partnership, and I want to make sure I’m doing the math correctly.

Cacafuego
Jul 22, 2007

My wife was pretty much topped out at her current position in healthcare IT and had no room for progression. She interviewed at the other big hospital here for a similar role, but it’s more in line with what she wants to do and will give her good experience to roll that into something more lucrative in the future. She had a great interview and we knew a few people on this inside and high up in finance.

She was offered about 10k less than she currently makes for this job and considered it as it was a stepping stone to something better. We discussed and she held out for a little more. They ended up offering her about 2k (about 11k more than the first offer) more than she makes now, which she thought was on the extremely high end of what the market is paying.

Always ask for more, especially in this job market!

OhHiMaahk
Jan 8, 2014

zynga dot com posted:

Does anyone have any good resources for estimating your fully-loaded total comp? I’m considering an offer to give up a W-2 position for an hourly 1099 partnership, and I want to make sure I’m doing the math correctly.

I don't have a specific resource, but I recently did this exercise and here are the factors I considered to estimate my total compensation. Maybe others will be able to plug in some holes I missed.

-Salary
-Employer portion of Social Security (Salary * 6.2%)
-Employer portion of Medicare (Salary * 1.45%)
-Estimated employer health insurance contribution
-Employer 401k match and/or pension contribution
-80 hours of paid holiday time at current estimated hourly rate
-160 hours of paid time off at current estimated hourly rate (Including sick, vacation, and personal time)
-Estimated annual bonus
-Any miscellaneous benefits your current employer might provide (health subsidies, parking reimbursement, etc)

Salary / 2000 is a typical way to estimate your current hourly rate. Adjust the holiday/PTO hours to your current situation and you should get pretty close to your annual total compensation.

OhHiMaahk fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 10, 2017

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Definitely also for things like how long the commute is, basically you gotta think about how your expenses will change after any transition.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 10, 2017

zynga dot com
Nov 11, 2001

wtf jill im not a bear!!!

A dossier and a state of melted brains: The Jess campaign has it all.

OhHiMaahk posted:

I don't have a specific resource, but I recently did this exercise and here are the factors I considered to estimate my total compensation. Maybe others will be able to plug in some holes I missed.

-Salary
-Employer portion of Social Security (Salary * 6.2%)
-Employer portion of Medicare (Salary * 1.45%)
-Estimated employer health insurance contribution
-Employer 401k match and/or pension contribution
-80 hours of paid holiday time at current estimated hourly rate
-160 hours of paid time off at current estimated hourly rate (Including sick, vacation, and personal time)
-Estimated annual bonus
-Any miscellaneous benefits your current employer might provide (health subsidies, parking reimbursement, etc)

Salary / 2000 is a typical way to estimate your current hourly rate. Adjust the holiday/PTO hours to your current situation and you should get pretty close to your annual total compensation.

Great, this lines up with what I was using for figures - much appreciated. I knew I had to add the self-employment taxes as well, but I wasn't sure if I was missing anything else major for a 1099 that I wouldn't calculate for a W-2.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Definitely also for things like how long the commute is, basically you gotta think about how your expenses will change after any transition.

Big raise and shortens my commute by 75% - what's not to love?

mattwhoo
Aug 26, 2009
The general rule I use for 1099 vs W2 is to double the value at a minimum. You also need to make sure you start making quarterly tax payments, if not your going to get hit with penalties. Get a good tax guy and start keeping receipts as well. It's really worth talking to a tax guy before heading down this road. I have always had a W2 job but I have done a bunch of 1099 side work in the past and hosed myself the first time I got a tax bill for over 10k.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe
I had a pretty great interview last week and the company already wants to bring me back in to meet the team. They're likely to meet my ask salarywise, which is going to be really nice, but I'm wondering when to talk about benefits -- when the offer is extended? Any tips on negotiating benefits?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Flying Leatherman posted:

They're likely to meet my ask salarywise, which is going to be really nice, but I'm wondering when to talk about benefits -- when the offer is extended? Any tips on negotiating benefits?

You talk about market competitive total compensation and wait for them to make the first offer on a comp package. There is no way to negotiate salary without knowing benefits and other comp.

Fhqwhgads
Jul 18, 2003

I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID
How does negotiating an internal move work?

I was hired a few months ago by one of the big banks, and like most big banks, it's actually multiple companies that have different ladders. I work in the Private Bank, but at the end of the year, my group is moving over to the Investment Bank. New reports, new structure, but providing the same job/same responsibilities. In general, people in IB get paid more than people in PB, so naturally I'd want a raise to at least get on the IB pay scale. Here's where there are a few wrinkles.

The job my boss and I do is basically providing a specialized service for a large program within the Private Bank, but what we actually do (bond trading/hedging) is more of an IB job which is why they're moving my group, but are most likely going to come at us with "You're providing a service to the Private Bank, so they will continue to pay your salary" as an opener to keep our pay down. One counter to that I was thinking is that the MD over on the IB side who will be our new boss has been avoiding hiring any new staff at all this year, because he is expecting our group to move over there at year end. So in effect, he is saving a ton of money by not having to hire new IB staff at IB salaries if we come over on the PB's dime. So if the PB is still paying our salary, why can't the IB then pay us a premium on top of that for services performed for their benefit (of which of course we will be doing)?

The way I see it, using fake numbers: A VP in the Private Bank makes $100k. A VP in the Investment Bank makes $150k. If they're going to move us over and keep us on PB's dime, what's stopping the IB from paying the VP that extra $50k out of their own budget? That way the VP gets the IB salary, but the IB budget looks like it's getting an employee worth $150k for only $50k. To me that sounds like a win-win. My direct boss sees it the same way I do.

But this is all internal, and I feel like it's going to end up being just a "here's your new contract take it or leave it" and I can't exactly say no. But I want to be able to have the above conversation with our future boss if possible.

And further complicating things, I'm currently not a VP, though I should have been. I interviewed for and was hired for a VP role, but they pushed back with an AVP title/pay. I took it anyway because 1) coming from a small advisory firm, I didn't care what you call me as long as the money is there, and 2) they were still paying me more in base than my total comp at the old job. Shortly after they hired me, legal/compliance came in and said "You know he's not allowed to actually do the job you hired him for because he needs signing authority and that's VP-and-up-only". So there have already been rumors of promoting me at end of year if only because I should have been a VP in the first place. So this title jump alongside the move over to IB really muddies what I should be asking for/who I should be talking to. One saving grace I have is my direct boss is extremely on my side about getting both the promotion and IB money, but she's not going to be the person signing the papers.

What are my options here, if any?

Ghostnuke
Sep 21, 2005

Throw this in a pot, add some broth, a potato? Baby you got a stew going!


Nothing really, if you don't have an offer from someplace else.

EAT FASTER!!!!!!
Sep 21, 2002

Legendary.


:hampants::hampants::hampants:
Reminder that without a BATNA you don't have a leg to stand on, and given that your internal transition is mandatory (over or out) you can "should" all day about what they're going to pay you but you don't have any leverage whatsoever if you plan on staying gainfully employed.

You can hope your company will do right by you, and I have at times, and mostly it's worked out, but without a knife behind your back it's not a negotiation, it's an assignment.

Fhqwhgads
Jul 18, 2003

I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID
Figured as much, we'll just see what happens.

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


Fhqwhgads posted:

Figured as much, we'll just see what happens.

Get an offer at a different firm and tell them to give you the number you want or you’re out.

I’ve worked at several banks and have seen plenty of internal moves. The only way you’re getting a promotion is if a) your new boss really likes to keep you happy (read can’t afford to lose you right now), b) you get a promotion/different role or c) you effectively threaten them to leave (which may see you getting replaced as soon as they have trained your succesor).

If you think you can get paid more, make it happen. They’re not gonna give you payraise for nothing.

mod saas
May 4, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Hey thread,

I've spent the last week reading this from beginning to end and it's been a huge win for helping me to internalize the right mindset for negotiations. I'm anticipating a situation I haven't really seen come up previously and I would love some insight and perspective that isn't colored by my own biases.

I've been with a large, international company for 12 years. I started front-line (think retail) before moving into more back-office style roles. I made a pivotal change 5 years ago when I joined a technology team supporting call centers. Programming/SQL had been largely a hobby up to that point, but I carved out a niche on the team with those skills.

Being on this team gave me the flexibility to also go to school full time. I've used this to finish 2x two year degrees in programming and IT. I've continued the programming with an AS>BS program at a state university and I graduate this coming Spring.

Formal education is important to this company; pay bands for positions are determined on the basis of education requirements. Having a four-year degree is nearly a prerequisite for anything that pays well.

The people I report to have no direct control over my pay, but they do end-of-year rankings (which determine raise %) and can engage HR in the laborious process of re-leveling an employee. This will come up later.

I immediately made a splash with my ability to automate repetitive tasks (increased accuracy and time savings) and provide unprecedented reporting. There ARE dedicated reporting teams, but they tend to focus more on revenue than call traffic. Before I arrived, there had been irregular (at best) answers to questions like "How many calls transferred from Team A to Team B had to be transferred again? To where?"

However, things like that were fundamentally not my job. I was hired for a more helpdesk-style role and I did fine at that. My reviews were always solidly middling because in the end, I did good/fine at my actual job and excelled when I had the opportunity to work on things that weren't. My attention during the first 3-4 years was also increasingly on school.

In spring of 2016, there was a restructuring in some parts of the company and my team got headcount for another administrative position. This position officially focuses on billing, but my boss told me to apply anyway. I was offered the position without an interview (very uncommon); it was a multiple dollar raise and it officially moved me out of the helpdesk so I could focus more on my skills.

In the last two years, I've applied for the last several Technical Analyst openings on my team. I haven't been selected for them. Frankly, I'm not qualified and I will never be qualified unless they're willing to give me the position and let me get up to speed. There's intense hesitation to hire people without relevant experience because our boss/the other analysts have enough to do without also having to train. The work we do also isn't something taught in school. (Unlike say, Cisco networking).

About 9 months ago, we had an Analyst posting we couldn't fill. I applied both times it was posted. We had the same situation a few years ago; I didn't apply because I was focused on school. That time they promoted someone else from the helpdesk (who I trained) who had similar-enough experience in a different department that they decided to give them a shot. (In the years since, my boss has commented occasionally they were surprised I hadn't applied then; it's painted a picture that my experience might have put me ahead if I'd applied).

This time, they didn't go that route and instead reached out to a contracting/placement firm our company uses in other business units. Given that this was my best shot for an Analyst role, I started looking for other jobs in the company. I found one that would technically be a demotion to tech/field work but would have been a $2/hour raise. They offered me the position and I approached my boss about a counteroffer. I was told that frankly, the company just doesn't do that for hourly employees, and only selectively for salaried. (I'm 50/50 on whether I believe that).

I ultimately didn't take the job since it just wasn't a right fit; I'd be graduating in a year (so I wouldn't stay at new job) and I had a good life rhythm going with school and all. Even several months later I'm confident that I made the right decision, but it definitely didn't help my paycheck.

My boss and their boss basically were making GBS threads themselves the entire time I was working on this. No one is irreplacable, but it would be pretty much impossible to backfill my skillset by hiring just one person. After I turned down the other job, I made it clear that I'm seeking new opportunities post-graduation (about a year away) and they either need to ramp me down and get people up to speed, or I'll need a dramatically improved situation to stay.

My boss strongly prefers that I stay and started working on a plan to get me up to speed with Analyst style work. Since then, I've been given two projects that are much more Analyst level than other smaller (but still important) projects that fell under my current job description.

Remember the mention of re-levelling? I'm aware that my immediate boss is working to create a new position on the team for me to fill. The title would likely be Business Analyst (because it wouldn't have the same qualifications as our Technical Analysts) and would be specifically tailored to my skills. I'm certain this isn't just blowing smoke; we've collaborated on things like determining the list/proportion of responsibilities of the proposed role.

A few additional notes that didn't really fit into the narrative above:

- I have the foundational skills to be a Developer, Data Analyst, and pretty much anything else in the software/data wheelhouse. One reason I stay with this job is because I get to do a little of everything and haven't had to dedicate myself to focusing on just one.

- My boss was originally working on a raise/relevel before I applied elsewhere, but boss' boss didn't support it and so it got shelved (boss' boss is a physical manifestation of the thread matra that Your Boss Is Trying To Take Advantage Of You).

- I do really like my job, and my boss. Other than knowing I'm leaving too much money on the table, I would legitimately be comfortable staying indefinitely.

- Our company places everyone into 5 buckets at review time. Bucket 3 is where almost everyone falls and people in Bucket 5 should probably have already been fired. My first several years on the team, I was in bucket 3. Last year, where I spent most of the time in my new job, I was in bucket 2. This year, the entire time in this new job and working on these huge projects, I was placed in bucket 1.

- I've done a little bit of research on glassdoor; it's hard because the job I do is such a mishmash that it basically doesn't exist elsewhere. Our Technical Analysts are on the lower end of their salary scale, but not bottom. I don't know how to do more research to come up with an actual number, and I'm willing to wait until I graduate to start applying and interviewing and finding a market rate.

- The company is known for not paying a lot. It can get away with that because it's not going anywhere, there's good benefits, and frankly people just want to work here.

- It's my understanding that negotiation may not be possible at my company. Our last round of Analyst hires had a very narrow range of salary that was being offered, with blanket declines for requests higher.

- My BATNA is continue being underpaid for a job I enjoy until I graduate and figure out what the right course of action is.

With all that said, here where I need perspective:

1) I'm officially over doing these Analyst-level projects within the hour and pay constraints of my existing hourly position. My inclination is to say that I won't accept another one in my current job status, but it's also unlikely that anything this large will come around again for at least a year. Thoughts on being that direct?

2) I'm currently hourly, 40 hours per week standard. I work about 2 hours of overtime many (but not most) weeks and a few times a year might have a 6th day. This new position would almost certainly be salaried. I've heard enough to be confident that all our Analysts make somewhere in the 50 thousands per year, make 60s if they're a Senior analyst. Salaried is based on a 50 hours per week expectation. My hourly rate times 50 is 48k. My hourly rate times 50 hours (but accounting for time and a half) is 53k. I believe these should be the absolute bottom of any offer, not accounting for a raise for the exceptional performance and what I bring to the team. Thoughts?

3) Related to number 2 and possible non-negotiation from my company, is there consensus/guidance about taking an improved job title and more overall money (even if my time is being compensated less) versus not accepting a crappy offer?

4) I'm refocusing on my career post-graduation. Any other opinions/thoughts/tough love?

mod saas fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Nov 14, 2017

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
You should see what other companies are like.

When do you graduate? Don't wait to graduate to find an offer...

e: Sorry I missed that you said this Spring.

You should already be looking for a new job based on your graduation date. Take advantage of any career office stuff your college / university offers.

1) Don't say no to doing interesting work if you're not leaving the company, even if you're underpaid.

2) Base your salary on what you can find in the market. You know your floor (55k), so go out and find out if the market agrees.

3) Seriously, leave your company. You're in a mindset that you need to stay there because you've been there so long. Change is hard. Don't let yourself get stuck because you don't want to make a change.

4) I think you need to really think about what your skillset is. You should be able to nail it down to a sentence or two, based both on what you're good at, and what you love doing. You don't need to tell anyone what you're thinking here, but use that to frame the type of work you want to do and the type of companies you try to work for. ".

Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 14, 2017

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah, seriously, 12 years at a company where you started as retail sounds...stifling. I'm sure you like your job but no way are they properly valuing your contributions. Don't let complacency and fear of change rule you.

I agree, interview other places, tell companies when you're graduating and that you can start then. You're fighting a losing battle because they know you like it there and are inclined to stay - negotiations with them might take you from really underpaid to only somewhat underpaid, but neither is great and you don't need 12 years of baggage of being "the underpaid hero". Other companies can be just as cool and good and it's not personal. I repeat this a lot but loyalty to a company, for better or worse, buys you nothing - the company would fire you the instant it became profitable to do so, treat them(and any future companies) the same way.

mod saas
May 4, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Jordan7hm posted:

Don't wait to graduate to find an offer...

Take advantage of any career office stuff your college / university offers.

This Spring, I'm getting Internship credit just for doing my job and doing an hour of "homework". I did this over Summer and it'll be drastically preferable to having to take a third class in Spring or delay graduation.

Thanks for spelling this out; this is a mindset shift I need to make. Already having a job in industry has been in my favor so far, but I'm at the point where it'll just hold me back.

Jordan7hm posted:

1) Don't say no to doing interesting work if you're not leaving the company, even if you're underpaid.

3) Seriously, leave your company. You're in a mindset that you need to stay there because you've been there so long. Change is hard. Don't let yourself get stuck because you don't want to make a change.

4) I think you need to really think about what your skillset is. You should be able to nail it down to a sentence or two, based both on what you're good at, and what you love doing. You don't need to tell anyone what you're thinking here, but use that to frame the type of work you want to do and the type of companies you try to work for. ".

1) So to make sure I understand what exactly you mean, if current job offers me the new role before I'd take an outside job: you vote that I take it even if they lowball me, because better is still better and I'm looking for much better regardless. This is what I was thinking but I'm also suffering from comfortable.

3) I've been coasting since the 10-year mark for school. The need to change is why I'm posting here -- I've seen how incredible a support group this thread has been and I know I need the help.

4) I can probably do that boil-down, but I'm still not sure where to go with it. That's probably a school career office thing.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Yeah, seriously, 12 years at a company where you started as retail sounds...stifling.

It wasn't retail, but there's no real way to describe it without giving up too much about the company and therefore start getting too personal. Frankly, it was an absolute blast.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I repeat this a lot but loyalty to a company, for better or worse, buys you nothing - the company would fire you the instant it became profitable to do so, treat them(and any future companies) the same way.

Yes, this is very true; especially for where I work. There is definitely some loyalty, but there's also the fact that Work + School is enough for me right now.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

mod saas posted:

1) So to make sure I understand what exactly you mean, if current job offers me the new role before I'd take an outside job: you vote that I take it even if they lowball me, because better is still better and I'm looking for much better regardless. This is what I was thinking but I'm also suffering from comfortable.

If you are being offered more interesting work than what you are currently doing, I think you should take it, yeah. Obviously you should negotiate as hard as you can, but at the end of the day they hold the cards right now. If your BATNA is keeping your current, less interesting, job... as you say, better is still better.

Looking for new work needs to be your top priority though. Unless you're a 22 year old just wasting time, school is not over until you have a job as a result of that degree.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

zynga dot com posted:

Does anyone have any good resources for estimating your fully-loaded total comp? I’m considering an offer to give up a W-2 position for an hourly 1099 partnership, and I want to make sure I’m doing the math correctly.

I dont have the hard data but you should be aiming to bill at least double what you want to make per hour to account for benefits, vacation and possible downtime as a consultant.

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poe meater
Feb 17, 2011
How do you guys negotiate with your current employer in regards to a pay increase about a fairly unique position where it's hard to compare? I would say I'm almost close to indispensable but really who knows.

I'll try to post more details but I'm on the phone ATM. Just wondering your general thoughts.

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