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interesting stuffquote:- Frost felt there needed to be an origin story for the evil in this world and that's where episode eight came from. The script for the entire episode was only around twelve pages. He said, without any further explanation, "I hope you figured out who she (the little girl in episode right) was by the end." Confirmation that the girl was Sarah Palmer?
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Nov 3, 2017 23:40
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Shageletic posted:Is it still true that Frost and Lynch wrote about 8 eps worth of material, then Showtime gave more eps, and Lynch wrote the rest on his own? Typically the rule of thumb with screenplays is that a page is more or less approximate to a minute of running time, and usually scripts are longer than what is ultimately contained in the film. So an average script length for a movie is about ~120 pages - but obviously this can vary heavily depending on the style and writing habits of the author and the habits of the director and the nature of the intended film and so on. For instance, it was mentioned somewhere that the script for Episode 8 was only 10 pages long? Good example. But still - a massive 600 page script is actually about what you'd need if you're gonna shoot an ~8 episode series as a giant film. And with Lynch, well, he probably could have shot all 18 episodes with a one-page outline for each. God knows what we would have gotten would have contained even more lingering shots and bizarrely extended scenes with deeply unsettling things happening that never get revisited or explained, though. I wouldn't have minded. But really, one of the things Lynch is very well-known for being a bit of a genius about is writing and shooting scenes on the fly based on his own intuition. I don't believe he had any kind of a "normal" script when he made Inland Empire, for instance - supposedly he wrote most of it as he filmed each scene based largely on an outline in his head and a loose written one for organization purposes. I imagine those skills served him quite well for filling the extended season up with enough content for 18 episodes. For example, remember that the scene with Candie accidentally whacking one of the Mitchum Bros. in the face (Knepper) with a remote control was written totally on the fly to compensate for him getting hit in the face by a light. Now think about how he interwove that wound into all this other cool stuff - Candie's odd behavior, the dream Belushi has when they go to meet Dougie, etc - it's seamlessly integrated totally into the plotline and you'd never even know otherwise. I dunno, I haven't thought enough about the series in retrospect in general, yet. It was so radically different than all the other television out there that I almost can't believe it actually happened, or got made at all. Thinking about the series in retrospect the whole thing actually does feel like a foggy dream I might have had. Like, "Whoa, lastnight I dreamt there was a Twin Peaks season 3, but it was ALL crazy and Lynchian. It was about Cooper coming back from the Red Room except he was in Las Vegas and repeating everything everyone else said while still somehow being a badass. And Michael Madsen was playing his doppleganger except his eyes were totally black instead of white and he had super-human power. And BOB was actually a big ORB inside him that a British kid with a green gardening glove punched to pieces, and somehow James was STILL cool. Oh yeah and there were all these black-skinned hobos running around doing stuff. That's the last time I smoke an entire eighth of weed and eat an entire wheel of cheese before bed."
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Nov 3, 2017 23:41
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I like the Audrey scenes a lot more on a rewatch. You guys still trying to figure everything out with the show? Wanna catch me up on the newest theories and explanations we're throwing around? Anything crazy involving Steve?
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Nov 3, 2017 23:42
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Shageletic posted:interesting stuff Frost has outright said so, yes.
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Nov 4, 2017 00:18
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Cromulent posted:http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/twin-peaks/268645/the-secrets-of-twin-peaks-season-3 Plus Charlie's emphasis of "going back on a contract" which I always thought was a weird way to talk about a marriage/divorce.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:47
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Slum Village posted:Plus Charlie's emphasis of "going back on a contract" which I always thought was a weird way to talk about a marriage/divorce.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:54
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eSporks posted:The book doesn't give a lot of details, but it flat out says she married her accountant in loveless contractual marriage So Charlie's an accountant huh? There's another bald accountant later in the season...maybe a bit of a stretch but considering the many other parallels... It would be interesting to actually list all of them. So much duality featured.
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Nov 5, 2017 03:16
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Let's say I want to show The Return to someone who hasn't seen the first two series, you think there's a way to boil them down to the absolute essentials you need to know to get what S3 is all about? Like in the area of 5-6 episodes and Fire Walk With Me? I realize it's a tall order to condense a show down to a fifth of its runtime but I don't want to be all like "we have to sit through these 24 hours of TV before we can start with the good stuff." I figure you gotta at least know about the red room, the essentials of the murder investigation (i.e. whodunnit), what Albert, Gordon, Bobby and Major Briggs are all about, and definitely Just You.
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Nov 5, 2017 12:26
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That person isn't gonna have a loving clue what's happening
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Nov 5, 2017 12:40
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why not just ... watch something else? why rush twin peaks? twin peaks is supposed to be watched by watching the first two seasons, FWWM, then WAIT 25 YEARS then watch season 3
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Nov 5, 2017 12:51
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Okay, let me open another nuance to the question: those of you who actually did watch The Return without knowing the original two seasons, was that a fairly good time, did you ever wish you knew the background of certain things etc? that is, the background insofar as the first two seasons actually provided it.
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Nov 5, 2017 12:59
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My Lovely Horse posted:Okay, let me open another nuance to the question: those of you who actually did watch The Return without knowing the original two seasons, was that a fairly good time, did you ever wish you knew the background of certain things etc? I'm pretty sure literally no one did that. People tend not to like to just jump into the middle of a heavily serialized show. There is no way in hell your friends will be able to understand season three at all unless they've already seen BOTH the original series and FWWM. There's just no way to rush this, sorry.
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Nov 5, 2017 13:37
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i mean, even rewatching S1 and 2 and FWWM recently its still hella confusing
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Nov 5, 2017 14:05
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I think the only part that could be legitimately skipped without missing too much is the lovely third of S2. I really don't think 5-6 episodes, even the most "important" ones, will do the series justice. I definitely remember at least one person here who watched S3 without watching any of the previous seasons or FWWM.
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Nov 5, 2017 14:38
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My Lovely Horse posted:"before we can start with the good stuff." I was under the impression that Twin Peaks was the good stuff. How are you gonna get to Twin Peaks if you skip it?  Maybe just watch episode 18 since episode 17 undoes everything that happened in Twin Peaks.
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Nov 5, 2017 15:03
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Original Twin Peaks is loving great, even if it has a few not so great episodes towards the end. And the revival series definitely doesn't work without it and FWWM as a background.
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Nov 5, 2017 15:11
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why would you want to skip any part of the best show ever made
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Nov 5, 2017 15:32
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Yeah like the intergal part of the return is knowing everything about the characters beforehand because the series gives you no context or backstory on anything. The entire series is great so just tell them to watch it.
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Nov 5, 2017 16:49
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Even if you watch the first two seasons , watch the movie AND read the book the third season is confusing as hell. If you didn't have any frame of reference I can't imagine it would be a fun confusing.
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Nov 5, 2017 17:02
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Cromulent posted:I think the only part that could be legitimately skipped without missing too much is the lovely third of S2. I really don't think 5-6 episodes, even the most "important" ones, will do the series justice. Even those have the Briggs disappearances and introdiction of the White and Black Lodges that become so important to later in the season and the newest one.
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Nov 5, 2017 17:49
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Frankly the way people try to strategically figure out what part of Twin Peaks they don't have to watch will always be weird to me. People that want to watch Twin Peaks should just watch the whole show. Even with season 3 its still shorter than like Breaking Bad or The Wire are.
Raxivace fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 18:22
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What kind of sucks is I have a few friends who I know would love the new season, but would hate the soap opera 90s-ness of the first two seasons.
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Nov 5, 2017 18:44
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Frankly, I don't even think binging through the first two seasons and FWWM/Missing Pieces and then going into Season 3 would be all that good a time, and you'd kinda be.. missing that whole time aspect with the 25-year-gap. It's not like Season 3 just.. picks up where either Season 2 or FWWM leaves off. I guess I'm being a bit of a snob about it, but I honestly think it's true - with ANY show that gets revived after an absence of decades there's really no way to recreate the experience of watching the original Twin Peaks back from like 1990 to... well, I dunno about the time The Sopranos began to really permeate and take over the television landscape. Between then in the '90s, there was SO MUCH awful TV and even more awful hair, you really need to have lived through it to truly appreciate just how dire things were. The pinnacle of drama at the time was reruns of TNG, the X-Files, and Friends/Seinfeld. To be serious though, Twin Peaks *really* did have a profound effect on the TV landscape in the nineties, and there really was a slow and steady buildup of boundary after boundary after boundary being progressively broken in the nineties, and in some ways Lynch and Frost kicked it all off. A show like the X-Files wouldn't have existed in the first place and certainly wouldn't have been able to explore some of the more disturbing psychological territory it tended to cover in it (IMO) much better and more episodic non-Alien episodes,
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Nov 5, 2017 19:00
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kaworu posted:Frankly, I don't even think binging through the first two seasons and FWWM/Missing Pieces and then going into Season 3 would be all that good a time, and you'd kinda be.. missing that whole time aspect with the 25-year-gap. I dunno, that's how me and my friend did it and we had a great time. I guess we did have to wait a few months for The Return, which is kinda like 25 years.
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Nov 5, 2017 19:52
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My Lovely Horse posted:Let's say I want to show The Return to someone who hasn't seen the first two series, you think there's a way to boil them down to the absolute essentials you need to know to get what S3 is all about? Like in the area of 5-6 episodes and Fire Walk With Me? I realize it's a tall order to condense a show down to a fifth of its runtime but I don't want to be all like "we have to sit through these 24 hours of TV before we can start with the good stuff." Having re-watched seasons 1 and 2 recently, every episode has something essential in it, even the bad ones, and the bad ones aren't as bad as I remembered. Outside of the James story line, the "bad" parts are all entertaining even if stupid.
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Nov 5, 2017 19:53
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My Twin Peaks order was S1, Mulholland Dr., Inland Empire, Lost Highway, FWWM, and S3, and I loved it. The movies may be more essential than S2, who knows.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:41
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Pinterest Mom posted:My Twin Peaks order was S1, Mulholland Dr., Inland Empire, Lost Highway, FWWM, and S3, and I loved it. Inland Empire better right before Season 3, though.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:53
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I was a bit iffy on the timeline change, but I like how the book implies it worked: The FBI, Tammy, Gordon etc all remember the original events of Laura's murder, and the FBI notes might have remained the same, but the people affected in Twin peaks are in a "dream" and remember the version where Laura went missing, and any inconsistencies don't matter to them. So the original series both DID and DIDN'T happen at the same time. Only the discovery of Laura's body and Leland's fate really changed, the rest both did and didn't occur at the same time. Or as Laura said "I'm dead, but yet I live". It's a paradox, but one the people of Twin peaks can live with. And since Judy took Laura's "essence" and remade her as Carrie in the pocket world, it doesn't matter because the only person left is Sarah and if Judy was destroyed by Laura's scream, that resolves that.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:27
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OldMemes posted:I was a bit iffy on the timeline change, but I like how the book implies it worked: Mark Frost indicated at the Austin Film Festival that he thought of Cooper changing the past as an act of hubris: "it's an act of hubris to think you can change history and change the course of time" I don't think the good guys win in this one.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:21
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I'm actually feeling more and more like that's the less interesting take on time travel. I'm not entirely comfortable with the morality of most time travel stories advocating that we should keep the status quo and not do what we can to make the world a better place.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:30
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I get why Cooper felt like he had to try though - having Judy runing around in Sarah's face is too dangerous to ignore, plus his existing emotional attachment to Laura. He just kind of blew it, especially since it seems like Laura is already in The White Lodge at the end of the film. And More posted:Mark Frost indicated at the Austin Film Festival that he thought of Cooper changing the past as an act of hubris: There's a certain irony that Windom Earle's downfall was him thinking that he could bend the lodge to his will, and Cooper displayed the same arrogance, even if it was for unselfish reasons. I read the ending that Cooper did manage to stop Judy, but at best he's going back to the waiting room, at worst he gets killed when the dimension collapses. The most hopeful reading of Cooper's fate is that the final scene of FWWM goes after the scream. It did seem like Cooper knew that going into Judy's dimension is a risk, considering he made a new Dougie, and the stress of being in the dimension seems close to making him fall into the dream of being Richard, like how Diane fell into the Linda dream. Things don't look good for Cooper, but he might have saved the day, even if it cost him a lot. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 00:35
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Hansen85 posted:I'm actually feeling more and more like that's the less interesting take on time travel. I'm not entirely comfortable with the morality of most time travel stories advocating that we should keep the status quo and not do what we can to make the world a better place. Like in Twin Peaks terms, instead of chasing ghosts Cooper could have gone after the Renault family, who are now once again systemically exploiting women. That's a problem Coop entirely ignores and goes unresolved in season 3 for a reason.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:45
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Yeah I agree that a lot of the violence and exploitation of men against women goes unresolved in the season precisely to drive that point home. "Laura is the one" only in the sense that she represents the town's original sin in a way, not that she is more special than any of the others.
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Nov 6, 2017 03:34
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I kinda think that a lot of this analysis is far too literal in a way, and that the answer's not... The "answer" and the "meaning" of the last two episodes is not something which I believe can truly be deduced, and that's intentional. Quite literally, what happens after Laura's scream is darkness, and any other answer is pure speculation. ...Hmmm. Maybe it's a result of my history with drug use, but I was just sitting here about to type something and I had a brief moment of clarity regarding season 3 and the things that were happening and it had something to do with Lynch's Monica Belluci dream, a dream that *I* had recently, and Odessa. And about how some of the inspiration for the story was from The Odyssey. Like smoke through a keyhole.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:41
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kaworu posted:I kinda think that a lot of this analysis is far too literal in a way, and that the answer's not... The "answer" and the "meaning" of the last two episodes is not something which I believe can truly be deduced, and that's intentional. Quite literally, what happens after Laura's scream is darkness, and any other answer is pure speculation. Drug use... that explains a lot. 
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Nov 6, 2017 04:46
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...! posted:Drug use... that explains a lot. 
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Nov 6, 2017 07:51
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you guys cant help but reach for that low hanging fruit, huh
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Nov 6, 2017 13:49
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I'll concede that you can't rush watching Twin Peaks and that you shouldn't make people rush it but I still feel like there should be a provision for when the goal isn't "watch Twin Peaks" but specifically "watch Twin Peaks The Return together." Whatevs I'ma just be like "here's the gold box call me when you're done."
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Nov 6, 2017 15:13
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I just think it would be such a fundamental betrayal of what made The Return so good to me to watch it and not be sure if you're confused because you are supposed to be confused or if you just are missing information.
The Walrus fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 15:22
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Okay now THAT is a sentiment I can get behind 100%. Nicely phrased.
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Nov 6, 2017 15:29
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