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FTAs and free trade as a concept are very different things. Conflating them isn't helpful.
open24hours fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 02:30
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open24hours posted:Free trade and neoliberalism are not the same thing. Only in that neoliberalism encompasses other ideas as well.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:33
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The kind of free trade promoted by neoliberalism is a specific form of trade. There are plenty of arguments for free trade that can be made from a socialist or other non-neoliberal perspective.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:38
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Number 1: that's neoliberalism. Number 2: that's neoliberalism.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:39
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open24hours posted:FTAs are free trade as a concept are very different things. Conflating them isn't helpful. Removing barriers to capital while maintaining barriers to workers gives another major piece of power to capitalists. How are you this bad? open24hours posted:The kind of free trade promoted by neoliberalism is a specific form of trade. There are plenty of arguments for free trade that can be made from a socialist or other non-neoliberal perspective. Market socialism is capitalism and needs to be destroyed.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:39
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Proper free trade would cover trade in labour. I’m not sure the communist utopia is on its way in anytime soon, so we’re stuck with markets for the time being.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:49
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Well it doesn't, so why bother defending the practice as if it didn't contribute to the weakening of worker's rights and calling criticism of it racist?
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Nov 6, 2017 02:52
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Also important to note that markets and the means of production are distinct from each other and even if the latter is commonly owned, markets would probably still be necessary for the distribution of commodities without a massive bureaucracy.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:54
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Endman posted:Also important to note that markets and the means of production are distinct from each other and even if the latter is commonly owned, markets would probably still be necessary for the distribution of commodities without a massive bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is better than a market. The production and exchange of commodities is a fundamental part of capitalism.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:56
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Well it doesn't, so why bother defending the practice as if it didn't contribute to the weakening of worker's rights and calling criticism of it racist?
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Nov 6, 2017 02:57
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Tired of dumbopenchat? We are too! So relax with a thrilling tale of definitely-not-broken-capitalism and inadvertent tax havens! They wouldn't lie to us, would they?
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Nov 6, 2017 02:57
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Nah mate it's not a total lack of financial regulation that's the problem, it's that cheap Chinese steel.
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Nov 6, 2017 03:04
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Bureaucracy is better than a market. The production and exchange of commodities is a fundamental part of capitalism. The production and exchange of commodities is a fundamental part of any economic system, capitalist or otherwise. What defines capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. I agree bureaucracy is better when you’re talking about things with inelastic demand such as water, electricity, pharmaceuticals, schoolbooks, etc. but other goods don’t need to be distributed by the state and can be left to markets. So long as those markets are regulated so that trade is done in good faith between unexploited parties.
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Nov 6, 2017 03:06
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Endman posted:The production and exchange of commodities is a fundamental part of any economic system, capitalist or otherwise. What defines capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. No it's not. Unless you're discounting communism as an economic system. And private ownership of the MoP is too broad a definition. Feudalism and Mercantilism had private ownership of the MoP, as did Classical economies. It's the extraction of surplus value that defines capitalism. Why though? A market means you have to keep wage labour. You'd be better off having a very flexible rationing system of luxury goods. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 03:18
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just gently caress off
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Nov 6, 2017 03:25
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The best thing is how the politicians arguing for removing tariffs and support for local industry with no requirement of reciprocity are the same ones who say the loudest that there is no point doing anything about carbon emissions here until the rest of the world does it first.
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Nov 6, 2017 03:27
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open24hours confirmed for being the guy who told George Lucas that space taxation and space trade routes should definitely be the very interesting and cool thing to kick off the entire star wars saga episode I being obviously the most interesting and best episode due to
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Nov 6, 2017 03:28
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Recoome posted:
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Nov 6, 2017 03:31
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Keep arguing about trade and trade policy, its educational for those of us who don't know a great deal about it. Arguing isn't always futile and this argument is at least factual and constructed which is a hell of a lot better than arguing with some loving moron on facebook about whether or not male power structures exist.
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Nov 6, 2017 03:34
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Me irl every time I open the thread.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:01
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Cartoon posted:I wonder whether anyone let Lena know she was on stage with actual Nazis? #notcool 
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Nov 6, 2017 04:02
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Why though? A market means you have to keep wage labour. You'd be better off having a very flexible rationing system of luxury goods.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:17
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I suppose you could argue that Mathius Corman (or any of the liberal front bench/ministers) isn't a Nazi. Please try.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:17
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:No it's not. Unless you're discounting communism as an economic system. And private ownership of the MoP is too broad a definition. Feudalism and Mercantilism had private ownership of the MoP, as did Classical economies. It's the extraction of surplus value that defines capitalism. In a vacuum, maybe, but if you’re taking a strictly evidence based approach to your distribution of luxuries, the cost for the state would be astronomical. Sometimes (re: luxury goods) it’s best to just let people decide what they want and to let them buy it themselves rather than have the state do it. I’ll concede that extraction of surplus value is a defining part of capitalism, though, and just defining it through private ownership of MoP is too broad.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:20
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When the distributive system inevitably fails you'll end up with unregulated black markets anyway.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:23
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Turnbull just did a presser announcing that all MPs and senators will have to disclose their citizenship status to Parliament.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:44
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CrazyTolradi posted:Turnbull just did a presser announcing that all MPs and senators will have to disclose their citizenship status to Parliament. Just watched that, what the hell is with his pronunciation of 'resolution'?
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Nov 6, 2017 04:56
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norp posted:Just watched that, what the hell is with his pronunciation of 'resolution'? Turnbull has a weird "I'm posh and I want people to know I'm rich, but I also want people to like me so I'm gonna try toning it down and making it a bit more Australian" accent. Like IMHO he started off with a posh accent and had to learn how to make it less British.
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Nov 6, 2017 05:01
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CrazyTolradi posted:Turnbull just did a presser announcing that all MPs and senators will have to disclose their citizenship status to Parliament. This seems like a terrible decision based on what has happened so far. I'm guessing they are really hoping that Labor are hiding some folk?
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Nov 6, 2017 05:06
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Cartoon posted:I suppose you could argue that Mathius Corman (or any of the liberal front bench/ministers) isn't a Nazi. Please try. Oh, you're talking about that tweet where if they hadn't mentioned it was Mathius Corman we would've been wondering who the gently caress anyone on that stage was, right.
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Nov 6, 2017 05:08
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Zenithe posted:This seems like a terrible decision based on what has happened so far. I'm guessing they are really hoping that Labor are hiding some folk?
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Nov 6, 2017 05:09
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CrazyTolradi posted:My feeling is that while ALP might have one or two folks that could get caught, this is probably going to be a major self-own for the LNP. It's in keeping with their progress of late. Why stop when you're on a roll?
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Nov 6, 2017 05:11
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The only citizenship I have to declare is that I, (((bird;-Strike))), the Posting Soul am a Free Being of the Inter/Net and that I have already emailed citizenbgone@putin.ru to confirm this. As further proof please see the attached affidavit of Mr. P Murray, Live as stamped by the Admiralty Court.
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Nov 6, 2017 05:18
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norp posted:Just watched that, what the hell is with his pronunciation of 'resolution'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAAXorA4pg8
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Nov 6, 2017 05:26
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This is definitely a good thing coming shortly after they ensured tens of thousands of young people were encouraged to get on the electoral rolls.
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Nov 6, 2017 05:36
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Birdstrike posted:The only citizenship I have to declare is that I, (((bird;-Strike))), the Posting Soul am a Free Being of the Inter/Net and that I have already emailed citizenbgone@putin.ru to confirm this. nice (((anti-Semitism))) there mate
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Nov 6, 2017 05:42
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Maybe Turnbull reckons the right wing backbench has the most number of dual citizens
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Nov 6, 2017 05:43
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Don't you get it?!? Labor MPs have names like Wong, Plibersek and Georganas! Clearly they must be secretly dual, no, triple citizens!!!
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Nov 6, 2017 05:48
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I could be wrong, but based on my knowledge of the Labor vetting system (spoiler: it's very thorough), my money would be more on "they're refusing to hand over documentation in order to stretch this out for as long as possible in the media whilst knowing they're fine and hoping a few more Libs are not".
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Nov 6, 2017 05:51
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CrazyTolradi posted:Turnbull just did a presser announcing that all MPs and senators will have to disclose their citizenship status to Parliament. At the time of nomination, not now. It's not going to solve anything because the questions are being asked of serving senators and MP's. BTW, all markets are regulated. Who they're regulated for, that's the question. For instance, the GST wasn't intended to end the cash black market, although it was sold that way. edit: apparently he does mean it to apply to current politicians, after resolutions are passed. Good luck with that, Malcolm. ewe2 fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 06:03
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