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You meant they aren't works created solely to feed the writer and pander to otakus?  That would break the basis of my reasoning of why only Shannon can be the culprit even if you have minimal knowledge of the series in general (say, only watching the first half of episode one).
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Nov 6, 2017 11:51
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  Video: The Siege, Part 2 "I see, if the opponents are calling it a mystery...!"Blood-red longsword in hand, Dlanor slowly walked forward. Behind her walked Will, tapping his back with his black blade.  BGM: Justice  "I cannot wait to hear your OPINIONS."The crowd of goats stepped back. Though they had been so vicious against the fantasy creatures, they stepped back when faced with this pair wielding swords of mystery. "...There have been a great many closed room murders on this game BOARD. Choose whichever you please, and we will parry all of your ATTACKS." "No. We don't have to defend anything." "...INDEED. A mystery is always the source of the CHALLENGE. Why should we be forced to play DEFENSE?" "Do you guys get it yet?" Blue truth cut the goats apart. That blue truth dwelt within each and every one of the riddles in Beato's games so far. What about the closed room with the chain, first game, second twilight? What about the closed room of the chapel, second game, first twilight? What about the trick to killing Nanjo, third game, ninth twilight? There was no end to the blades. The countless riddles Beatrice left behind became blades, 'challenges' that tore the goats apart. If they wanted to deny fantasy, they would have to make a counterargument. They would have to deal with every single trick as a mystery. However, while most of the goats called themselves anti-fantasy, they had no answer for the mystery. Well, every now and then, there was a goat who did have an answer.    "...There were multiple culprits all working separately, and it just happened to look like a single culprit..." "Van Dine's 12th. There must be but one true culprit." "...Y, you mean... everything but that is... f, forbidden...?!" "Boring, right? To have a genre like that. Personally, I think mysteries should be more flexible." "...The Ten Knox Commandments... and the Twenty Van Dine Rules... a, are behind the times..." "The definition of the mystery genre is... changing with the era... I think..." "Tch. They're getting rebellious." "Perhaps we are behind the TIMES." "In that case, let's see if you have any theories that can satisfy us." "...COME!!"The whole crowd of goats charged them. In their fangs, each of them carried theories to crush Beato's closed rooms. The bodies of these goats were different than the ones who had become corpses so easily just now. They had mystery-style answers to several closed rooms. So, it would take several blade hits to give them a fatal wound. However, Beato had left many blades behind. All of them were exceedingly sharp. So, the pair of inquisitors didn't think this would be a desperate battle.  The goal is to use all your imagination and knowledge to challenge each of the riddles head on. Doing this is the greatest enjoyment of the mystery genre. So they laughed. Both Will and Dlanor laughed. With smiles of admiration at the theories the goats had put everything they had into, they countered with blades from all the closed rooms. The crowd of goats was no longer an encirclement, but a great wave threatening to swallow the pair up. And yet, the pair repelled the enemy without giving an inch. They resisted firmly, cutting through the wave of wailing goats. It was like an ice breaking ship knocking a path through a frozen sea.  "Knox's 3rd, it is forbidden for hidden passages to EXIST!!" "...After the hidden passage was used, it was welded shut and became unusable, so no hidden passages existed at the time of the inspection..." "...These are all fake murders, so no one is actually dead... So, all closed rooms were constructed by the so-called victims..." "?!"Dlanor hesitated for just an instant. After all, this cliched and simple theory managed to get around both Beato's closed rooms and the Knox Commandments. Dlanor saw nothingness inside the goats' massive jaws... "...Nngghkkk...!!" Surely, the jaws of that goat had closed over Dlanor's head. However, the upper and lower jaw were no longer connected, so the upper half slid off to the side. "Look like even the great Knox never forbade fake murders." "There are many splendid mysteries besides murder."The goats hadn't backed off far enough to let the pair have a nice, long chat about mystery. The next massive figure immediately enveloped them. Will's blade drew a diagonal slash across its chest, but it only cut through its clothes, leaving no wound.  "...?! The Twenty Wedges don't work on this one."Dlanor also hit it with her longsword, but still, it just cut its clothes without leaving a mark on its body. Could it be that this goat... had a theory that didn't violate Knox or Van Dine...?!  In an attempt to stop the goat from saying any more, Will and Dlanor hit it with blades from every closed room, as well as stakes from the Ten Commandments and the Twenty Rules, but none of it had any effect. Slowly, the goat clenched its massive fists together, and raised them up high. "...After all, after all...!!" "Will...!!!"With a roar, Will slammed into the goat giant with his body. Though its massive bulk bent back slightly, Will was still leaping into a deathtrap. However, if he hadn't done so, he wouldn't have been able to protect Dlanor. The goat grabbed Will. It lifted him up and held him high in the air. It was like a little kid showing off his favorite toy and waving it around...  "Let's hear your theory. If I'm to hear a great theory before I die, it'll be a fitting end for me." "...Van Dine and Knox are useless for making theories..." "Gyagg... gghh... gghhh...!"The goat's massive hands closed on Will like a vise. All the bones in Will's body were creaking. "...Let's hear... your theory. Guh, aah..." "...What...?" "After all, making theories for any of Beatrice's games... is a waste of time..." "What do you mean... gggyahh...!" "...This isn't an orthodox mystery, so thinking about it is just a waste of time... I won't... accept Beatrice's game as a mystery... There are no answers to the tricks. It's all, all... just an illuuuuusion..." "..." "...?!?!" "...Gg... gwhh-"Will's head was lowered, so his face couldn't be seen. However, the arm of the goat holding him was shaking. The embrace of those log-sized arms with superhuman strength... was being slowly pushed away by Will's shaking arms...  "...Thinking is just a waste of time...? You say that... and call yourself a mystery fan...?" "Gwah... ooh..." "...Mystery is like chivalry. You fight with the noble rules that you've created, with pride in the stance you've taken. Is it worth being a coward if it'll help you win? Does losing make the whole fight meaningless if you fought with everything you had? It isn't about winning and losing, it's about applauding the will to fight even in the most dire circumstances..." "...Guh, ghh, ghh, gggg!!!"The goat's arms were now spread wide, and it looked as though Will was now the one pushing it back. Will's face was covered in shadow and couldn't be seen. "...People like you, who call themselves mystery fans even though they never even try to solve it like a mystery... You're the ones I really can't stand!!!"Will slammed his forehead into the goat's now unprotected head.  Will hit it with his head over and over again. His forehead had been torn apart by the goat's fangs, but he kept on hitting it. Van Dine and Knox may be behind the times. The mystery genre does progress with time, just like the world around it. However, there's one thing that never changes. That is... pride. What is a knight proud of? Not victory. He's proud of the courage that lets him stand up to anyone without fear. Will couldn't forgive the kind of coward who could turn tail from a fight and then brag about it. People who call themselves mystery fans but who have no pride were the only ones Will just couldn't bear. The goat, unable to put up with this anymore, threw Will down to the floor. Then, he lifted his fists again, determined to crush Will to pieces this time. "Come! You probably will beat me to a pulp, but that'll be no victory for you. You'll destroy your own pride with your own hands!!" "...Pointless, pointless... This is no mystery, so why make theories? Thinking is just a waste of time, useless, useless, useless, die, die, die..."A fist like a cannonball swinging down towards him... was the very last thing Will saw before he shut his eyes.  "...!" BGM: Rebirth Battler smashed his fist into the goat's mouth... and smashed teeth bounced off the celling.  "BATTLER-sama...!" "If you stop thinking, it means you've given up on the story being a mystery. Which means... as far as you're concerned, this game is a fantasy."Battler lifted up his arm. Realizing this was a signal, Lucifer and Chiester 00 jumped.  "If you've stopped thinking, you don't deserve to be an actor on the stage. Stop trying to sound smart, and go eat some popcorn from the stands or something."The goat lifted his fist again, then swung it down at Battler like a hammer.  "...If you've surrendered to fantasy!!" "That just makes you another target nyeh...!"  "Begin recognition of hostile elements...!! Mark all targets vulnerable to magical attacks in our HMDs!!" "Kids who surrender to fantasy get to deal with us!!" "...And if you have a theory, we will hear it OUT." "We'll welcome those people with open arms. Out of respect for them, we won't hold anything back!" "Oh, but it would seem that this is BATTLER-sama's time to shine." "...While I would like to listen to all your favorite theories, both mystery and fantasy, this isn't your game right now. No matter how much you future Fragments try to deny us, this is no time for me to be defeated..."A golden glint gathered in Battler's hand. It was so bright that the whole hall was bathed in gold. Golden butterflies flitted about, as though the whole room was being swallowed up by the Golden Land. Battler lifted... his golden longsword high.  A slice of the golden longsword flooded the hall with a sea of golden light. Then, the whole group of goats clambering about the hall turned into clouds of gold butterflies and scattered. Even so, only about a hundred of them had been wiped out. Before long, the massive crowds of goats outside would probably come pouring in. "...Just a bit longer until the seal is finished. Sorry, but I'll have to ask you to hold out here a bit longer." "Of course, Lord BATTLER!" "Otherwise, we wouldn't get to show off!" "You know, you two could try fighting just a little." "But-" "We're-"  ""Just the MCs!!""Their excessively blunt refusal drew a few strained smiles. However, it had lessened the tension in the room just a bit.  "BATTLER-sama, leave this to us!" "We won't allow the corrosion to proceed any further!" "And not one of us will be left behind." "Of COURSE. We are all precious pieces on Lord BATTLER's game BOARD."The Seven Sisters of Purgatory, the Chiester Sister troops, and everyone else nodded forcefully.   "They're managing to hold their ground down below!" "The door to the Golden Land is still opening slowly. It will still take some time though." "There you have it. We'd better start buying some time ourselves...!"The sea of goats that covered the ground below them was jostling about more and more. By now, even the sea surrounding the island had disappeared. The horizon was gone, and the chewed up island was now floating on an eerie emptiness like space. The goats that flooded the edges of Rokkenjima seemed to be spilling off the sides.  "Looks like that's it for this game board..." "As long as there's a Game Master and pieces, the game board can always be laid out again. As long as you have two people together, you can create any sort of game." "...True. Where on Earth is Ange...?" "Where did you hide it?" "That's right, the chapel...! What's happened to the chapel?!" "It's still there...!"The chapel looked like a white building floating in the pitch-black sea of goats. Yes. This was strange. There was no way those goats, who consumed everything, would go out of their way to avoid just the chapel.  BGM: None Outside the chapel was a sea of goats. Very soon, the earth around the chapel would be eaten away, and it would probably end up floating on nothingness. The rampage of the goats, as they devoured everything and chanted the tragedy they imagined with one voice, was truly making a lot of noise. However, none of that reached the inside of the chapel. Ange finally broke the magic seal on the entrance and stepped inside...  However, in the face of ANGE Beatrice, Witch of Truth, the one who sought the truth and could sweep aside all forces that prevented her from finding it, no barrier was absolute...  "...There it is."A single book, tightly locked, rested on the altar. It was the hidden diary that Ushiromiya Eva had written in even in her later years.  It was the one Featherine had shown her in the world of 1998. This time, I have the key. I gripped the gold key that sat in my pocket, the key Onii-chan gave me. As I approached the altar, I saw that the Book of the Single Truth was wrapped in a strange bending of the light. "...So, this is that seal of the Game Master that Bernkastel talked about."The Book of the Single Truth was sealed in something like a crystal. It was a seal made by the Game Master's authority. This was on a different level than the breakable magic seal on the chapel door. No matter how Ange used her power as a Witch of Truth, this couldn't be broken by anyone except the Game Master. However, this time, Battler wasn't the only Game Master.  "Hmph. So sorry, Onii-chan. Bernkastel is also a Game Master. I just need to take it with me and have her break the seal."Ange slowly approached the altar...   "This is my little sister we're talking about, so yeah, probably not." "Then what will we do?" "Looks like we've got nothing to go on but brute force...!"At that moment, a fierce impact hit the pair of them.   "drat, what the hell is this?!!" "Battler...!! Gghh, what is this?!"It was a barrier, a massive cage of crystal. Battler was shut inside a crystal cage like a tower, so large that you had to look up to see the top.  "Beato, I need you to take care of Ange...!" "What will you do?! Can you break this from the inside all by yourself?! Is this... a closed room barrier?! Who could have-" "...There's only one person who'd challenge me with a closed room. Looks like our final guest has finally arrived." "You don't mean..." "Go, and take care of Ange...!"Beato left Battler to handle this on his own and headed for the chapel. Battler took a deep breath, then smiled daringly...  BGM: Where The answer was a laugh. Yeah, that's right. That laugh is enough.  "Looks like you're doing well."  "I'll bet you did. I believed too."Battler flung off the cape of the territory lord. It would only get in the way. And, it would be a rude way to welcome his final guest.   "So, this crystal cage is the ring for our duel. A chain deathmatch with nowhere to run." "...Now that you mention it, we're always fighting over closed rooms with chains." "Then let's use that. Make it a real chain deathmatch." "I'm prepared, but what about you?" "...I am. I told you, didn't I? I believed too."At the same time, they both brandished their mysteries, sealing the other in a chained closed room.   BGM: Dread of the Grave - More Fear (remake) At the same time, they were both sealed inside a closed room locked with a chain. Of course, it was easy to set and unset the chain from the inside. However, stepping into their opponent's chained room would be difficult. They were fighting to the death with two chain closed rooms at once. There could be no better closed room duel for this pair, which had battled with theories concerning chained rooms so often.   "It wasn't a suicide, it wasn't an accidental death, it wasn't a death by illness! I really was killed by you, Battler-san!!!" "It was a murder committed by slipping poison gas through the crack of the door, by filling the room with water and drowning you, by sucking the oxygen out of the room and making you suffocate!!" "There was no poison gas, there was no drowning, there was no death by suffocation!!" "Hahahaha, ahhahahahahahahahahaha!! A closed room murder with poison gas? Death by drowning? Suffocation?! *giggle*giggle* Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!!" "Crazy, right? It's funny, isn't it?"  "Red truth!! Ushiromiya Battler was stabbed to death!! Let's say the weapon was a knife, stuck right into his back!!" "<Good>!! Nothing beats a classic closed room!!" "Then why don't you try it too?!" "I'll take that challenge with the red truth!! Furudo Erika was stabbed to death! The weapon was a knife, stuck right in her back!!" "Interesting!! I'll tear your closed room to biiiiiiiiits!!" "Battler is busy at the moment with other business. For now, I shall be your opponent." Unless that riddle was smashed with blue truth, Ange wouldn't be able to leave the chapel. After shrugging impatiently, Ange finally faced Beato. "Is this the first time I've fought you directly...?" "Oh, is it now...? Very well, let's see what you've got. However, Battler isn't here at the moment. When he's not around, I sometimes forget to hold back." "What a coincidence. I feel the same."  
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Nov 6, 2017 13:36
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Oh, I definitely think R07 is taking someone to task, but I don't think it's as simple as just an attack on his fans. Consider this passage:ProfessorProf posted:
Notice that this doesn't actually come up until after the goats start saying that this is an illusion, and stop thinking about the mystery- which is the cue for all the creatures of fantasy to come up and start fighting. This is important here: it indicates that R07's umbrage falls where it always has- on people that, when presented with a mystery, give up when the first few solutions don't work, or expect an easy, all-encompassing answer to eventually be given out. It's sort of a betrayal of the genre of mystery, isn't it: to engage with something without really wanting to put in the effort to do so, seeking the easy answers. These aren't the only emotions we can find here- I think it's safe to say, for example, that the author has feelings regarding people who spout off about a real tragedy and appropriate it as their own amusement, without understanding anything about it or being evolved directly- but it is a big part. I suppose one could include Ange in the party of the "seeking easy answers" problem, but her situation is somewhat different. To her, the One Truth is not the "easy" answer but the most true, and she's not pursuing it out of some twisted sense of amusement, but because she believes it's all she has left, and thus she must pursue it. Is it myopic? Yes, but it's a myopia borne of desperation and legitimate illness, rather than curiosity... and it's something that only someone else that's been similarly backed into a corner can really address. So, once again- 
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Nov 6, 2017 16:53
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It's kinda funny how the part of the goat giving up on thinking made me feel a bit called out myself. I know before reading this LP I tended to not really try to figure out a mystery much myself, figuring that at the end I would be told the answer anyway, so why bother trying to come up with some theories that will probably get disproven by some stuff I missed anyway. However this series kinda started giving me more of an appreciation for just sitting down and trying to figure out how something could've been done, even if I might be wrong it's still a fun brain exercise. I remember a while ago Auaurora near the end of the sixth game told Ange (and by proxy I felt, the reader) to try and figure out the mystery of how Battler could be saved from his self-made locked room and I actually felt pretty clever when I managed to figure out that the window seals got never mentioned and might be a possible way for someone to save Battler. Also man, I didn't expect to see a just straight up duel about figuring out who can figure out the other's locked room first. Gonna be interesting to see how such a direct confrontation is gonna work out. Also, we'll get to see Beato do what she does best one more time so that will be exciting.
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Nov 6, 2017 17:57
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So. Incredibly. Hype. I'm glad Ange gets a showdown with Beato. Beato is in a way better position to convince Ange than Battler is.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:06
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I got into the series when the anime was announced, so either just before or just after End of the Golden Witch. Even then, there were so many people arguing that the mystery wasn't solvable, and there was no point in trying to figure it out. I imagine that's the goat he's ripping on with this scene, someone going "This mystery is bullshit and impossible so I won't bother" rather than "This is a bit above my paygrade, I'll leave it to the detectives and just enjoy the ride" 
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Nov 6, 2017 18:09
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Danaru posted:I got into the series when the anime was announced, so either just before or just after End of the Golden Witch. Even then, there were so many people arguing that the mystery wasn't solvable, and there was no point in trying to figure it out. I imagine that's the goat he's ripping on with this scene, someone going "This mystery is bullshit and impossible so I won't bother" rather than "This is a bit above my paygrade, I'll leave it to the detectives and just enjoy the ride" I got the impression that throwing out wild and improbable theories was preferable than not trying at all. What I'm saying is Chimpatrice is good and honorable.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:13
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Hello I am actually Goat-kun please forgive my laziness.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:13
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ZiegeDame posted:I got the impression that throwing out wild and improbable theories was preferable than not trying at all. Chimpatrice was still a better theory than Battler's small bombs Wild and improbable theories are fair game
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Nov 6, 2017 18:17
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Danaru posted:Chimpatrice was still a better theory than Battler's small bombs You shut the gently caress up, small bombs are the best and I will hear none of your slander against it.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:34
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bman in 2288 posted:Hello I am actually Goat-kun please forgive my laziness. 
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Nov 6, 2017 19:27
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bman in 2288 posted:You shut the gently caress up, small bombs are the best and I will hear none of your slander against it. Also in a way it was the answer to everything anyway, seconded.
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Nov 6, 2017 19:41
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Fabulousvillain posted:Also in a way it was the answer to everything anyway, seconded. Those bombs are not small in the slightest, that's the beauty of it. If Battler had only thought on a bigger scale...
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Nov 6, 2017 20:44
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So it appears that asking Bern to bring Erika back was a stupid idea. Battler needs to stop saying he will never forgive someone cause he clearly never means it. And Erika is an rear end in a top hat who is one again trying to ruin everything.
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Nov 6, 2017 20:51
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Kids. Heh, goat kids.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:12
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bman in 2288 posted:Hello I am actually Goat-kun please forgive my laziness. Hi fellow Goat-kun  Still I must say that episode 4 is rather BS in the sense that Battler got so few reference points that everything is possible.
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Nov 7, 2017 01:32
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What a journey it's been to be able to see an image like this...quote:and think "yessssss  ".
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Nov 7, 2017 08:03
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 BGM: Sukashiyuri "Of course, we'll then move on with a movie version and a TV drama bundled in...! We here at Company X would be honored to accept your manuscript...!!" "And will there be prize money?" "But of course...! The 10 million yen prize for Company X's first mystery novel contest will all go to you! And much more besides!!" "Splendid. You've caught my interest. That's why I've decided not to write up a manuscript." ""Whaaaaaaaa?!?! M, Madam Hachijo, whyyyyyyyy...?!!!""Everything had seemed to be going so smoothly up until then, so this sudden refusal made the people from the publishing company fall over in their sofa.  BGM: Love Examination "In that case, it wouldn't be fitting to hand it over to you. It was always a worthless story. Just something for my ignorant readers to put on their shelves and let them think that they've managed to solve a great puzzle. I was hoping that they'd recognize the irony and laugh at their own foolishness, but it looks like you've taken it seriously. Yes, I can say I'm ashamed at my own failure as a writer.""O, o, of course not!! Please, forgive us!! Please, let us use your-!!" "...I have no need for money, but some pet food would be nice." "Pet food? O, oh, for your cat...!!" "Th, there was a rumor that you had a cat who liked dried plums! Y, yes, as you wish...! Quickly, let's have a high-quality assortment of dried plums in here!!" "She only eats the ones that are packaged separately, at 200 yen apiece. At this rate, she'll die of high blood pressure. She snacks on kimchi and spicy miso soup all the time too... Really, there must be something wrong with that cat's tongue."Mii! The cat meowed an objection from where it lay on top of the bookshelf. "I cannot give you this manuscript, but why don't I write up a new one for your company's contest? However, I won't write it under my name. It's estimated that thousands of manuscripts will be sent in for your contest. If you manage to pick out mine from the pack, and if you also find it deserving of the prize, then I would be happy to continue our discussion just now. How does that sound?" ""H, haha--!! Just the honor of receiving your manuscript is more than enough!!"" "You people truly are amusing, fawning and cringing all the time. But I've grown weary of this for today. Leave now. Meeting with children of men can be so tiring." ""Haha--!! We are deeply grateful for your kindness in allowing us this meeting!!!""A servant guided the people from the publishing company to the door. In the study that was now finally quiet, Hachijo Toya let out a sigh, slumped down in the sofa, and gazed at the ceiling.  BGM: en-counse  "...It's good for you to talk to people every now and then. You'll go senile if you stay shut in all the time."The black cat leapt from the bookshelf and landed softly on the carpet. Then its form silently twisted and became that of Bernkastel.   "What's all this about pet food? How rude." "Well, that's what it is. Here."Hachijo picked up a jar from a shelf, then took a dried plum out and threw it into the air. In an instant, Bernkastel turned back into a black cat, caught it in midair, and started munching away. "...Miss Hachijo, your guests have departed."A servant knocked on the door before making this announcement. "Thank you. Let me know if that one wakes up." "As you wish. Would you like some tea?" "No. I'm going to write for a bit. Please do not disturb me." "Yes ma'am."After waiting for the servant's footsteps to disappear into the distance, Hachijo moved to her desk. The desk certainly looked as though it belonged to a great writer, with pages of manuscript scattered across it.  The black cat spoke as it tore the dried plum apart with its mouth. "Tales are to be written with ink. To me, that is an unbreakable rule." "...So, you write it once with ink, then type the whole thing over again with a keyboard. Pretty stupid, doing the same thing twice." "In that case, why does a child of man draw up a tale in their mind, and then spit the whole thing out again on a keyboard? How foolish of them to do the same thing twice." "Look at it that way, and you're doing the same thing three times." "...Pft, *cackle*cackle*. That was a good one."Even as Hachijo laughed, her fountain pen was already sliding across the page. Beautiful letters appeared almost as fast and proficiently as a typewriter. Only humans called her creations 'manuscripts'. With her fountain pen and writing paper, she was creating a world... As she did, the hands of the clock would spin around like a top. The light and shadows that came in through the window changed their angle so fast, they might have been the hands of a clock themselves... Slowly, she drew a large X across the tightly packed words on the paper.   "...I can't draw it out well. Writing a manuscript to please people is truly a pain. After all, I don't usually write for other people to read." "Why don't you just try taking whatever it is you're trying to say and writing that down...?"Bernkastel curled up on the sofa, a mocking smile on her face. Normally, whenever Hachijo was writing, Bernkastel would never let herself be noticed, much less talk to her. However, Bernkastel realized that the other was apparently getting bored with her manuscript, so she yawned and started talking.  "What is it you're writing, anyway?" "...A tale to give to a child of man." "Which child of man?" "...It's a tale I promised to write for a miko who once Read for me." "Ah... You're still writing that?" "I can't think of anything to write, that would give her satisfaction." "...Looks like Auau's giving up yet again. You always promise to write a story, then get stuck before you're finished and give up." "If I had given up, I wouldn't be worrying over it like this." "...There's only one tale that Ange's wanted from the beginning." "Ange said she wanted to know what happened that day. No matter how many tales you write distorting the truth, she'll never be satisfied." "And yet, I do think my tales are far more interesting than the Single Truth." "Ange doesn't want to read an interesting tale." "...I promised that child of man that I would write a tale for her sake. So, I'm writing a tale to please her." "No matter how interesting or uninteresting it is, everything you write is an illusion. Ange doesn't want any of that. Haven't you figured that out yet?" "...The Book of the Single Truth... was written by Ushiromiya Eva."Hidden amongst the pile of writing paper... was Eva's diary.  "...Don't make me laugh. Is this coming from the person who entertains herself by taking a tale and tearing out its guts?" "The truth... is uninteresting." "Is that your opinion after tearing apart the guts of so many tales?" "...You might as well say that."With a self-mocking laugh, Hachijo set down her fountain pen. "I certainly have aged. The first thing age taught me was that 'not knowing' is more precious than 'knowing'." "That definitely sounds like something an old person would say, but I'll play along. What do you mean?" "'Knowing' and 'not knowing'. These two things have a one-way relationship." "True. It's possible to switch from 'not knowing' to 'knowing', but you can't do it the other way around." "When I realized that, I saw the noble purity resembling virginity... that exists in not knowing." "..." "In my attempts to escape boredom, I've torn apart and eaten the guts of as many games and tales as there are stars in the sky. But always, my relief from boredom is short-lived. It's all so fleeting that I've started to ignore each tale as an individual story." "...That's right. If you eat a cat, then you only get to enjoy it for one night. But if you let it live, it might start calling you names and getting sarcastic." "Indeed. Even the annoying way they break into your sweets cupboard or sneak into your bed can be part of their charm."Hachijo looked around at the books covering every square inch of the room, then softly pet the cat's back.  Hachijo laughed with self-derision.  "...Even in Beato's game, you've tried to tear the guts out." "I just wanted to check my answers. I did try to do it in a way that respected Beatrice, the weaver of this tale." "...Yeah. I think it was pretty well Read, all done so that people who didn't understand wouldn't find the answers." "Will it make for a better tale if Ange learns the truth, or if she doesn't? To be honest, I don't know anymore. So, fully aware that you'll scorn me for it, I've decided to stop writing the rest of this tale." "...What do you mean?" "I won't write it. I will merely show it. The tale that Ushiromiya Ange weaves herself." "So, you're going to do that sort of thing again?" "After growing tired of a thousand years of life, I've decided that choosing not to know the truth is the more noble path. However, I now see that it isn't fair to force my opinion on Ange, who hasn't lived even a hundred years." "So, you're going to leave it in Ange's care?" "Yes. I will write it as it plays out." "...If you're leaving it to Ange, then most of what's left of this tale is pretty much set in stone already, right...?" "It would seem so. Let it be so. After all, in the end, a tale that a child of man weaves for herself will be more fun than any story I could create." "In that case, why don't you lend a hand in Ange's tale? You've already given yourself a role in it, haven't you...?" "...Hmm. So, it is my role to bring this tale to its conclusion." "Come on, that's no way for someone in Beato's game to talk. It's your job to tear the guts out of the cat box." BGM: None Then, she opened a locked drawer. "...That is what Ange desires. Perhaps fate has decided that this book's seal is to be broken. Ange will reach the Single Truth, the Single Truth will break the seal on the cat box, and everything will be exposed to the light of day. And so, all of those countless message bottles and Fragments made up of delightful imaginings, which have been scattered across the ocean of the internet, will fade away like foam on the sea. After all, even that person has surely tired of such Fragments." "It's about time for that kid to finish her journey too." "...Yes, let us accept this task. Let us bring this journey to its final destination."At that moment, there were sounds of someone in the hallway. The instant someone knocked on the door, Bernkastel turned back into a black cat. "...Miss Hachijo, please forgive me for interrupting."It was the voice of Hachijo's servant. "What is it? If it's a phone call, tell them I'm busy." "It isn't that. Toya-sama has woken up." "Thank you. Prepare a light meal. Enough for the two of us." "As you wish."Hachijo stood up. Then, she shut the open drawer and locked it again. 
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Nov 8, 2017 14:33
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Kinda been trying to think what this conversation could all mean, it seems like Featherine (Or whatever her human/real world version was called, I am bad with names ) is speaking from the authors perspective in a way. The way they imply how they could keep creating tales and how that might be more fun that learning the truth, which would end up being boring reflects how up until now we have heard all these versions of how it all could happened, and how we all got enjoyment out of figuring out these mysteries, trying to find meaning in the meta-layers and all that, but once we learn the actual facts of the incident there won't be anymore of that. We will learn the actual circumstances of everyone's deaths and what they did during those two days of which we heard so many variants of, and the story will wrap up there. I guess you could also essentially see it as a way of thinking about what trying to find every single bit of information of a piece of media can add if your imagination could let you think of so many different ways the plot or characters could go. Maybe sometimes leaving something unexplained can be for the better since it allows your imagination to fill in the blank with something that might be way more interesting or imaginative than what the devs could think of. I am kinda reminded of a certain sidequest in Deadly Premonition (Spoilers for a certain questline involving driving and pottery): When York finally has a chance to take a look inside that weird pot that Sigourney carries around and complains about getting cold, he declines. Reason being that keeping the mystery of what is inside is alive is better than lifting up the top and seeing what might end up being a potentially very mundane thing inside. Has been a while since I have seen that scene though so I can't remember the exact reasoning he gave sadly In other words, the truth of Rokkenjima is fast approaching and once we are finally there that will probably mean the end of our theory crafting and such as well since there won't be any more games after that. After writing all that I still have to say that I want to see the truth though, as fun as it may be to imagine endless games being played on the gameboard/cat box of that island, I still want to find out what really happened during those two days. Besides, what I am describing is in a way the ability to keep creating endless fanfiction of what might have happened and it's not like fanfiction cares about such nonsense like continuity anyway, right? fake edit: Sorry if this all sounds pretty rambly/weird/nonsensical. I am not running on a whole lot of sleep right now and I figured I should try my own attempt at interpreting this kinda stuff. Real edit: My god, I just realised something. Bernkastel is being a CAT here, she is able to traverse the SEA of fragments. Sea Cat, aka Umi Neko (I think), her hair is even blue like the ocean, further showing that connection. And the title refers to Umineko crying, though the name also refers to sea gulls. Sea gulls that I remember being talked about much earlier, and how the characters looked forward to hearing them cry again. Maybe the final piece to the puzzle of saving everyone is to add these facts together and realise that clearly what needs to be done is to make Bernkastel cry. And who else could do this but the person who at this point seemed like the least related to what is going on, seemingly only involved by sheer bad luck: Gohda. With his masterful skills as a chef he will manage to approach Bernkastel and cut up an onion in front of her nose, after which she cannot help but cry, finally allowing everyone to safely come home. Thinking about it, we did never see Bern in the same room as an onion so that must be a clever hint to her weakness we all just overlooked. Pack it in everyone, I just blew this entire case wide open. Greader fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 19:49
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Some goats like analyzing every nook and cranny, some goats just like to have a good story told to them. I'm not going to begrudge either type of goat.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:16
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dotchan posted:Some goats like analyzing every nook and cranny, some goats just like to have a good story told to them. I'm not going to begrudge either type of goat. What if I'm just the kind of goat who'll eat anything put into their mouth?
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Nov 9, 2017 01:59
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Greader posted:(Or whatever her human/real world version was called, I am bad with names Her pen name is Toya Hachijo (八城 十八), her real name is Ikuko Hachijo (八城 幾子).
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Nov 9, 2017 03:20
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bman in 2288 posted:What if I'm just the kind of goat who'll eat anything put into their mouth? That's the kind of goat always welcome to dinner at our place. Can't abide a picky goat.
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Nov 9, 2017 23:01
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Greader posted:Real edit: My god, I just realised something. Bernkastel is being a CAT here, she is able to traverse the SEA of fragments. Sea Cat, aka Umi Neko (I think), her hair is even blue like the ocean, further showing that connection. And the title refers to Umineko crying, though the name also refers to sea gulls. Sea gulls that I remember being talked about much earlier, and how the characters looked forward to hearing them cry again. Maybe the final piece to the puzzle of saving everyone is to add these facts together and realise that clearly what needs to be done is to make Bernkastel cry. And who else could do this but the person who at this point seemed like the least related to what is going on, seemingly only involved by sheer bad luck: Gohda. With his masterful skills as a chef he will manage to approach Bernkastel and cut up an onion in front of her nose, after which she cannot help but cry, finally allowing everyone to safely come home. Thinking about it, we did never see Bern in the same room as an onion so that must be a clever hint to her weakness we all just overlooked. So this is what the Golden Land is like. A theory after my own heart. 
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Nov 10, 2017 04:18
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 Video: Simultaneous DuelsBGM: lixAxil "I refuse!! By definition, it is impossible for a closed room murder to take place inside a perfect closed room!" "The chain might have been repaired after it was destroyed! The door might have been repaired after it was destroyed! The wall might have been repaired after it was destroyed!!" "My closed room doesn't involve anything being repaired!!" "<Good>! This really is getting fun, Battler-san...!" "Sorry, but I don't have time to play with you right now!" "I'm sorry too, but as a fellow Witch of Truth, I can't let you get in Ange-san's way." "...Come to think of it, you're a Witch of Truth too, aren't you? I see, that makes you a sort of mentor to Ange." "The Single Truth!! It is the supreme, the ultimate!! Only a Witch of Truth can break down all barriers that stand between her and that truth!" "Is this Single Truth of yours really so important...?! There are lots of things in this world that aren't worth knowing. How important is 1986 to Ange, really?! It isn't important at all!" "*giggle*giggle*! You're probably right! No matter what happened or didn't happen in 1986, it won't change anything for the Ange living in 1998! There's no point in learning that truth. However, there is just one thing that will change." "What's that?" Erika transformed her reasoning into a scythe's blade and lashed out at Battler over and over. Battler also created a blade from his reasoning and attacked Erika over and over. In the middle of all this, he questioned Erika, the girl who, like Ange, called herself a Witch of Truth. Just what is the point of exposing the truth?  "You're right. Knowing certain things often changes the way a person lives her life. In that case, I have one hope as her blood relative. I hope that, at the end of my game, Ange finds a better way to live her life." "By learning things, people change the way they live, but not always in a good direction. There are plenty of things in this world that you'll be more comfortable not knowing." "The number of ticks living in the seats on a train. Those urban legends about nasty stuff in the tap water. The world's full of things you'd be better off not knowing...!!" "The Book of the Single Truth probably can teach Ange what happened on this island. But what's the point in her knowing that?! It'll just increase the sadness she's felt for 12 years! How many more years will it take for her to find happiness as an ordinary girl...?! How many years will it take for her wounds to be healed...?!!"Ange's desire to find the truth is hurting her, regardless of what the truth actually is. Though her deep wounds were slow to heal, they did begin to do so during those 12 years. However, Ange kept picking at the scabs. In her search for the truth, she tore at those wounds herself, opening them up once more...  "Who cares about that?! The truth is everything! The truth is justice!!" "It's a disease everyone gets at least once, usually in middle school...! They just love to find out all those things adults are hiding!" "And don't you think it's fun to find that out?" "Yeah, totally. Reading dirty books wouldn't be nearly so fun if you didn't have to do it in secret." "...Pft."   "..."Ange was breathing heavily. The Book of the Single Truth was right before her eyes. If she could just defeat Beato, she'd be able to take the book to Bernkastel, and then she could read what was inside. Even though the truth of the final family conference on October 4th and 5th, 1986, was right there... the Golden Witch stood in her way. Her anger and hatred spun around inside her head, wiping out the composure that she needed to create theories. Ange shook her head several times, clearing away everything that got in the way of thinking. However, no matter how many times she thought it through, the closed room sealing her in the chapel was perfect. Ange wasn't particularly familiar with the mystery genre. However, she knew about all the Fragments containing Beato's games so far. Her knowledge was shallow, but it should still have been enough to give her a good foothold. However, no matter how many blue truths she shot at Beato, none of them even made the witch flinch... Beato just blew them apart with the red truth and an elegant wave of her pipe.   "...Are you trying to say that I could never solve this puzzle?" "I'm just buying time until Battler finishes dealing with Erika. He's the only one who can bring you to your senses." "Bring me to my senses? You're the ones doing this to me by hiding the Single Truth!! That's why I'm fighting you!! This is my right!! As the final member of the Ushiromiya family, I have a right to know the truth!" "Indeed. And that is the purpose of this final game." "...That's right. Without this final game, I wouldn't have been given a chance to reach the truth. At least for that one thing, I'm grateful." "But as for what happened in 1986... As for who took your relatives and your family away from you... As a human, your desire to know the truth is quite natural. However, even knowing this, Battler decided that it would be best if you didn't return to 1986." "I know what Onii-chan's trying to say...! He's telling me to look to the future and live, instead of being stuck in the past, right?!" "Correct. Battler wanted to use this final game, to show you that." "In that case, there's no need to keep waiting for my answer. The answer's <No, thank you>, Golden Witch...! Back in 1986, I was already dead. I've wandered about like a ghost for 12 years since then...! And when Aunt Eva died, I lost my only reason to stick around on this Earth as a ghost! That's why I decided to do one last thing before ending my life!!" "And that thing would be learning the truth of 1986?" "Yeah! Something wrong with that?!?!" "Indeed there is, foolish girl!! So, when you do reach the truth, you plan to die...! In that case, I can't let you have it...!! I must trick you and blind you as much as I can... to keep you alive! Battler wants you to live...!!" "Living without truth is no better than dying!! I'm trying to find the truth so I can live!!" "You just admitted you were searching for the truth so you could die." "Yeah, that's true. Then let me rephrase that...! I'm trying to find the truth so I can die!! I offered up my life when I made my contract with Bernkastel!! All so that I could learn what happened that day!! That Single Truth will be the souvenir I take with me to hell!!!" She had tried every theory, idea, and even nonsense that she could think of. However, none of it had any effect on Beato. Powerless and frustrated, with the Book of the Single Truth right before her eyes, Ange bit her lower lip. "At first, this was supposed to be a game in which you were given a key. A key that would let you decide your future." "Liar. You wanted to hide the truth in this chapel, them make me choose a door that leads to some optimistic future. That's not a choice! You're trying to decide for me!!" "Parents have the right to prevent their children from making unsuitable choices." "I'm not a kid!! I'm an 18 year old woman, who can think and act for herself...!!" "Fool!! You're just a six-year-old girl, who can't think of anything except the past!!" "And whose fault is that?!! Because of you, I've been stuck as a six-year-old all this time!! Now it's time for me to tear apart your illusion covering the truth!! Yes, now that I think about it, it's not this chapel that you've locked me inside! Since that day in 1986, for all these years... you've had me locked away in a closed room where I'm all alone, and where no one will tell me the truth!!" "And now... I'll tear your closed room apart with my own hands!! Yeah, it's useless, it's all useless. I know the trick to your perfect closed room!! Repeat it!! 'You murdered me immediately after shutting me into this closed room!'" "...! I refuse." "Of course. You've been killing me for 18 years. Thanks, Beatrice. If you hadn't reminded me, I wouldn't have figured out the trick." "...Ange. You are young, and you have a long future ahead of you. In fact, you are a Golden Witch living in the future, are you not? Then live in the future. Just how much is a truth of the past really worth? Isn't the truth of the future, the truth that you will create yourself, far more important...?!!" "My life is trash. My whole family died, leaving just me behind. That's why I'm going back to them once I've gotten my Single Truth." "If you learn the truth, you'll just have to accept your family's deaths...! Haven't you ever thought about living on, hoping that by some miracle, one of them might have survived? And that someday, you might get a chance to see them again...?!" "I'm not worried about that. Even the Witch of Miracles couldn't find a Fragment like that." Some days, I hoped that this might be a sign that they had escaped the explosion and survived. That hope gave me the strength to live on. However, that hope wasn't strong enough to support me for 12 long years. "So, even though I wanted to know the truth, I was unconsciously averting my eyes. I felt that learning of my family's deaths for certain would force me to deny any possibility of someone miraculously surviving. But I'm tired of living on and on, with nothing but that impossible hope of a miracle to keep me going." "That's why I decided to accept my family's deaths. I decided to accept the truth, no matter what it is. That's why I became a Witch of Truth...!!" "...How foolish, to be blinded by the truth of the past and unable to see one's own future...! Forgive me, Battler. I was not strong enough to guide your sister to a proper future..."A blazing blue wedge appeared in Ange's hand. It was long, thick, and shaped like a spear.   "It looks like being overly vague with the cause of death backfired on you. So long, witch of illusions. <See you in hell>." BGM: Life The blue spear seemed to crucify Beato against the window. "...Nng... gah..." "Game set. So, this is Aunt Eva's diary, the Book of the Single Truth."Ange picked the book up from where it lay on the altar, sealed in crystal.  "...If you read that, then by your contract with Bernkastel, you will die... Learning the truth just to die? Ridiculous...!!" "That's right. I'm looking for the truth so I can die. At least let me choose how I go. I'm not an idiot. I know the real me is still floating in that starry sky." I won't be able to return here again. When Bernkastel told me that and walked off the roof into the black sky, I followed her into the empty air. That was the contract. I wanted two things from Bernkastel. One was for someone from my family to come back. The other... was revenge. I wanted to destroy the Illusion of the Witch that hid the events of that day. I wanted to reach the truth. However, the first of my wishes couldn't come true. After all, even the Witch of Miracles couldn't find a Fragment where my family came home. So, she wordlessly questioned me. She told me that I couldn't reach the truth unless I had the courage to end this worthless life, living like a ghost and hoping someone might come back. So, she walked out into the open air, and I followed her. Yes, now I can understand. When I offered to trade away my life, I made one wish and gave up on another. I wished for revenge against the illusion that hid the truth. And now, I have succeeded in that revenge, defeating the master of that illusion and obtaining the Book of the Single Truth. What I gave up was my naivety, my continuing belief that someone from my family might come back. And now, I can accept that my entire family is dead.  "You really think you can heal my wounds by saying they'll always be watching over me from the clouds, like some kind of fairy tale?! I'm ANGE Beatrice, Witch of Truth!! I'll free myself from that life as a ghost, waiting for a miracle that'll never happen! I'll end my life as a noble martyr who's reached the truth...!!" "...Didn't you come to understand the power of magic through Maria's grimoire...?" "Yeah, I understood it. And then I despaired when I realized how powerless it was. And that's what Onii-chan is trying to force me to use now, isn't it? If I believe, if I use magic, then my family will always be by my side." "...Don't take me for a fool!!! You think that kind of magic, that illusion, that daydream... can heal those 12 years?! And how am I supposed to go on for decades and decades into the future?!" "Someone, come back to me, someone!! But no one's coming back!! So, at least tell me what happened that day!! Bernkastel said she'd tell me...!!" A blinding light poured out of the chapel. It seeped from the windows and the cracks of the door, even reaching as far as Battler's and Erika's eyes.  "It would seem that comrade Ange has completed her task. It looks like you've used some useless seal, but to my master, that'll be easier than thawing frozen saury fish." "...D, drat...!!" "Master said I could play with you until Ange finished her task. I've had enough fun from this reunion, so I think it's time for me to leave."Erika gave an elegant curtsey. "Why did you talk Ange into looking for the Single Truth?! Your master must know...! That truth doesn't mean anything for Ange!" "Yes. All truths in this world are meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a Single Truth, it can mean different things to different people! The truth has no meaning in itself! There's just one reason why I'm still stuck on the truth despite it all!" "Because you're a detective!" "<Good>!! But Ange-san isn't a detective. To her, the truth itself is the finish line. A way to mark the end of her unhappy life. Now, she's finally finished the last purification ceremony...!! She's a one-night Witch of Truth, focused on learning a certain Single Truth before she dies! A temporary witch for the short time until she slams against the ground!!" "I won't let Ange die!! No matter how tough it gets, she has to live!! That's the only thing all of us want...!! If she lives, all sorts of magic and miracles would be possible...!!" "If only you'd put your arm around her shoulder and told her that directly, you might not have lost. What do you say? Just by hearing you howl, see how far Furudo Erika's reasoning takes her." He yelled towards the chapel, but Ange probably wasn't even there anymore. Battler's yell was swallowed by the empty pitch-black sky and the sea of rampaging goats...  "Comrade EVA. Our mission is complete. Let's withdraw." EVA appeared in midair and cackled.  "Sorry, Battler-kun. I wasn't strong enough. For 12 years, I protected that kid my own way." "...I'm grateful." "However, she's decided this for herself. She's 18 years old now. Don't you think people should decide how they live their own lives?" "...Sorry for being an overprotective big brother." "Later. I'm Lady Bernkastel's piece at the moment. It's time for me to leave." "I'll see you later, comrade EVA."EVA held her palm open... and a small, pointy, blue Fragment appeared there. The Fragment burst, and with a blinding flash of light, EVA vanished. It was the same light that had seeped out of the chapel earlier. Pieces cannot leave the game board. However, the Voyager witches alone could come and go. This was probably some sort of magic that Bernkastel had given them. Erika opened her palm as well, and the same sort of Fragment appeared there.   "...Wait. We haven't settled our fight yet."If he could steal the Fragment in Erika's hand, he would be able to go to where Bernkastel was. The seal surrounding the Book of the Single Truth would probably be melted easily with Bernkastel's power. However, even so, it would take her some time. If he could steal that Fragment, he would have a chance at bringing Ange back... "What is there to settle? Time's up. However, if you feel like taking one last hit, I'd be happy to oblige."He had known that Erika couldn't resist the challenge. After all, Battler already knew what Erika's trick was. He'd figured it out just a second ago. Even while he spoke with Erika, he had been thinking about it inside his mind. He could finish her with this last strike... and take the Fragment... "Let's go, Erika. This'll decide it...!!" "This'll be the last one before I go, so go ahead and give me the craziest of your hilarious theories." "Your closed room definition claimed that the walls, windows, floor, ceiling, and chain were all unbeatable!! However, there was one possibility that I didn't check because it was too ridiculous!" "And that was whether or not the chain could be set from the outside!!" "...!" What a ridiculous answer. However, if you blindly assume that a lock made by an unbreakable chain makes a closed room unbeatable, then this truly would be a perfect closed room. The blue wedge flung from Battler's hand plunged straight into Erika's chest. As she winced in pain, her hand shook, and the Fragment she held flew into the air.  Erika's blue scythe swung out from behind her back, catching Battler in the side as he stretched his hand out towards the Fragment. Battler's hand... didn't reach it. The Fragment returned to Erika's hands once more. "It looks like our tricks were equally ridiculous. The mystery nuts would've been furious, don't you think?" "But I disagree! To me, the process of exposing that ridiculousness is ecstasy!! That's why I'm Furudo Erika, the detective!!" "...Dammit... You figured out the answer a while back, didn't you...?" "Not true. I thought it up between the time you let loose your blue truth and the time you stretched your hand out to grab the Fragment. I've just been buying time since the beginning. I only started reasoning a second ago!"Erika broke the crystal barrier that surrounded them. Then, she flew high up into the sky, looking down on Battler and laughing at him as she gave a final bow.  "W, wait!!!"Like she'd actually wait just because I told her to. With a blinding flash, Erika vanished. Ange had gotten the Book of the Single Truth and returned to Bernkastel. Battler and the others had no way to leave the game board. Everything... had come to an end...  BGM: Voiceless "...My apologies, Battler... I let Ange get away..." "I'm sorry too. I've let them get away. It's all over..."Battler had created this game for Ange. Now that Ange was gone, the game board no longer had any purpose. And even if that weren't the case, even now, the game board was being chewed apart by the goats, like a single leaf floating on a sea of nothingness... Thanks to Gertrude and Cornelia's seals, the mansion was protected from the second floor up. The door to the Golden Land was now open wide enough for a child to slip through. The smaller people, including Maria and Sakutarou, slipped through it.   "Indeed. To my eyes as well, it seems to be so." "..." "F, Father...! Is the door open yet...?! It looks like they're about to break in through the windows...!!" "Krauss-sama, there is no need for you to fear. An Eiserne Jungfrau barrier is not so easily broken." "Very soon, it'll be big enough for adults to go through too. Don't worry. We'll make it in time." "B, but... there's knocking and banging everywhere, and-" "Stay calm and wait. After all, there is nothing for us to do but wait." And they were plunging their fangs and fists into the walls and windows, trying to crush them. So, there were goats stuck to all the windows in the hallway, smashing their thick arms against the windows in a way that would terrify anyone, even if they knew about the barrier. However, anyone watching the group of goats gathered at the top of the big staircase on the other side of the barrier would probably feel a different emotion. Instead of terror, it was a sad, empty sort of emotion. The barrier was drawn across the landing at the top of the hall's great staircase. Beyond that barrier, everything had already been eaten away. Was it even possible for those who stood in the hallway of the upper floors to believe that this was the Rokkenjima mansion? By now, no one looking at this scene would be able to imagine such a thing. Forget the hall or even the whole first floor... Even the ground itself was almost gone. The sea of goats had eaten everything apart long before this. They had eaten apart the hall, the pillars of the mansion, the floor, the ground, the sea, the very concept of the island... every part of the game board Battler had created. And now, the only leftover was the upper part of the mansion, which floated along in empty space.   "To what do you refer?" "...The goats, in their eagerness to chew this island apart, have eaten up even the ground they stood on, dropping themselves into NOTHINGNESS."This had once been a huge entrance hall. Beyond it had been a vast rose garden. There had been so many places to stand upon. However, now, holes had been dug everywhere, and nearly everything outside the mansion was completely gone. Some goats were clutching to the few remaining footholds and pillars, still eating away at them.  "...It should be known that to expose the truth is to kill." "Why can't humans live without killing, I WONDER. Throughout their long history, so many have prayed for miracles, but in the end, they eat up their own chances at receiving a miracle, eating up the very ground they stand on and falling into the ABYSS..."They saw a goat chewing the same pillar that was holding it up, which, unsurprisingly, fell into empty blackness along with the goat...  "..." "...If learning means eating away at the same hopes and dreams that keep you alive, that would mean humans are born just so they can die. We're taught that we have to live. However, almost everything that we accomplish in life ends up killing us..." "...Don't think about it. You'll just get a headache." "As a single human, I want to ask. Is learning a crime?! Is living in ignorance the only way we can have hopes and dreams...?!" "...Both living with knowledge and living in ignorance have their benefits, as well as their shortcomings. You're even free to choose which path you take. That's what makes humans powerless." "While people can learn, they cannot 'unlearn'..." "And so, the all-knowing god has stepped in for the sake of the humans who cannot do this, marking out things that should be learned and things that should not be learned." "...Too much curiosity... can kill... your hopes and dreams." "Humans are pitiable beings, who are unable to simply avoid those things which should not be LEARNED. Lord BATTLER can hardly be blamed for failing to teach this to Ange." "...And now Ange's gone. This game... is over."Struck dumb by Will's words, everyone fell silent. Only the sound of the goats eating everything away rang out hollowly... Even if they escaped to the Golden Land, these goats of emptiness would probably chew into that realm as well. Even if they got away for the time being, nothing would be resolved. It was all set in stone now. They had no way to resist the future's violent attempts to tear the cat box of the past open.   "..." "If a human's foolishness makes them throw away their own hopes and dreams in the end, then I want to believe in those things until the last second." "...Your resolve is impressive." "I'm the embodiment of the one hope held by the Beatrices of a million worlds. So, even at times like this, I have to be everyone's hope. I'm not giving up on this game yet." "...You're not giving UP?" "I'll keep waiting, believing in a miracle, until the last second." "So, you'll keep struggling on and on until it's all over?" "That's right. After all, last time, when we were surrounded by that pack of terrifying cats, we were prepared for death, weren't we...?! But Lambdadelta-san saved us...! If we had given up, if we hadn't had the strength to believe in a miracle, then I'm sure we'd have been erased before help could come." BGM: About Face How long had she been there? Lambdadelta was leaning on the handrail of the staircase, eating popcorn. Want some? She held the cup of popcorn out, but Lion declined the offer. "...Battler-kun told us. He said Ange-chan made a contract to learn the truth in exchange for her own life." "Going by your conversation just now, that was no contract. After all, living and seeking the truth so they can die is what humans do anyway, right? In other words, Ange has spent all of her life trying to learn the truth. All Bern did was shorten that time to a single instant." "...When Ange-chan lost her hopes and dreams, she stopped valuing her own life. How can she be given hopes and dreams again? What can be done to help her find a reason for living?" After tossing the last bits of popcorn into her mouth, Lambdadelta threw the empty cup into the abyss of nothingness...  "...Bern wasn't really pushing that kid to do something she didn't want. She was giving Ange a chance. Or should I call it a choice? Then, Ange made the choice she wanted, appeared on the game board, and now, in her game against Battler, she's making her own choices again. From start to finish, Ange's game has always belonged to Ange. Right now, I'm just a casual observer." "...So, not a particularly enthusiastic observer." "Maybe. It's a play with an obvious ending. So, I've decided I might as well take my leave." "...So, you'd stop watching a play just because you think you know how it will end? Even though it might reach a climax you didn't expect?" "..."Lambdadelta licked her salty fingers. Then, she stared at Lion challengingly and grinned.   "...Huh...? Are you talking to me, the Witch of Certainty, and saying that the outcome is certain...?" "That's right. I guarantee it. Ange-chan's game won't end like this. So please, don't leave your seat. We won't leave either. There must be something we can do. And... that will surely lead her to a better future. This tale will definitely have a happy ending. So keep watching until the end. I beg you." "...Even though I, the Witch of Certainty, have already announced that this tale won't have a happy ending...?" "Who gets to decide what makes a happy ending?"For a while, there was a tense silence. With a confident gaze that seemed to be saying 'are you serious?', Lambdadelta stared at Lion. However, Lion's eyes didn't even twitch. For some time, they both stared into the other's eyes without flinching...  "...Ha...!"Suddenly, Lambdadelta let out a large sigh and stretched. "Well, I have nowhere better to be. Sure, I'll stick around a bit longer. If you get me some more popcorn, that is. I'm feeling like caramel flavor this time." "If you come to the Golden Land, we'll serve you as much as you like."Lambdadelta waved at them with a thin smile. No one was quite sure what this meant, but it apparently signified her surrender in her own way.  "...That's pretty thin, actually." "And as gentle as the Sea of Japan!" "That is a very rough SEA." "...Please, allow us to speak." "It would seem that she mixed up her metaphors."There was some muffled laughter. Lambdadelta is the witch who gives strength to those who possess unshakable willpower. She might have given Lion a bit of magic for that absolute belief in a happy ending. "You better not let me get bored, okay? If you do, I'll leave right away." "Of course. I'm sure Battler-kun will be glad to welcome you as well."Lion understood. In order to fight back against Bernkastel, who had taken Ange outside the board, they would need the power of another who was capable of leaving the board. Their last hope was to make sure Lambdadelta didn't abandon this game. However, judging by Lambdadelta's expression as she hummed to herself cheerily, actually asking her for help was probably going to be a problem...  "What a spectacle! Not a sight you see every day!" "...How have matters progressed UPSTAIRS?" "Ah, right, we came here to tell you that!" "Hey, everyone, sorry to keep you waiting!"  ""They say the door to the Golden Land has opened...!!"" "...Finally." "Let us GO. This place will not be safe for LONG."Everyone who had been sitting on the staircase got up. "I guess this is goodbye, Rokkenjima the beautiful." "...True. It may be a shadow of its former self, but this is the last time we'll see it, isn't it?" 
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Nov 10, 2017 14:36
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With all this talk about the truth being "meaningless" to Ange, it really does kind of seem like the explosion was just a stupid accident. Revenge is meaningless if there's no one to get revenge on. Or, if I may be forgiven for getting particularly crazy with the theorizing, what if Ange herself was actually somehow responsible for the explosion but has repressed it? Like, maybe she actually did come to the island with her family in 1986 and somehow caused the explosion, and Eva managed to get her out and convince her that she'd actually stayed home sick the whole time... In that case, the party Battler orchestrated earlier in the episode could even be part of the truth, and it would also be a pretty understandable reason for Eva to resent Ange and for Battler to be desperate to keep Ange from knowing the truth. There's an issue of plausibility, though.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:17
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Confused Llama posted:With all this talk about the truth being "meaningless" to Ange, it really does kind of seem like the explosion was just a stupid accident. Revenge is meaningless if there's no one to get revenge on. Ange unsupervised just played around at the cathedral, accidently got the letter stuff right (After climbing up there and somehow not falling off, if the rest of the family had seen that they would've gotten a heartattack) and ended up finding the hidden room full of gold. Cue her playing with the switch on a clock to see what happens, then Eva who for whatever was send to find Ange followed her into the room as well. Cue further shenanigans leading to Eva and Ange finding the hidden mansion somehow in what Eva figured would just be a fun way to bond with her brother's daughter in the middle of the night when suddenly the mansion everyone is staying at turns into a crater. ...yeah, extremely unlikely. Possible, unless we know 100% that Ange could have not been there, but extremely unlikely since it is very doubtful she was there. Also man, I really am gonna hope that Lion is correct here. The last thing the Rokkenjima incident needs is one more casualty after 12 years.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:12
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Lambdadelta: still a Good Witch So yeah, we've got two completely unrelated matters tangled up together here: Learning the truth and continuing to live. Somehow Ange has decided that they are mutually exclusive and Battler, lovable incompetent that he is, somehow accepted this premise and tried to argue against the former instead of arguing for the latter, which is what he actually cares about. Meanwhile, Lion is the only person talking sense.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:18
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ZiegeDame posted:Meanwhile, Lion is the only person talking sense. I mean, they are the once in a billion miracle of the family, of course they'd also be the only one to have common sense.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:46
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Ange said that none of her family made it out. But Eva did. And she's Ange's aunt, which makes her family. Me thinks that Ange is just looking for an excuse to die. Her logic to look for the truth is just twisting itself to justify her rage. I don't think I can really fault her for being difficult, she just wants her pain to end. And that she's allied herself with Erika just shows how she views her life now, which is
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Nov 10, 2017 21:54
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Once again a reminder that all witchs wish for death both their own and others. Also this truth of what happened is indeed foolish, the key of who is already reveled, the true identity of the one who set this off, the child and grandchild of Kinzo. So the who is answered already,and the heart of why is shown, all other parts doesn't matter, not the how, not exact where, . The mystery is solved, all this is trying to rip out the heart.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:55
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I'm sad Erica was not being a hero. I'm holding out hope for that.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:38
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SystemLogoff posted:I'm sad Erica was not being a hero. I'm holding out hope for that. Heros are people who are able to put others before themselves and act for the greater good. Erika has demonstrable been unable to do this. Ever. Which, I feel, is the main point of Erika in the first place.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:32
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SystemLogoff posted:I'm sad Erica was not being a hero. I'm holding out hope for that. Yeah and all I could think was. Battler what did you think would happen when you asked Bernkastsel to bring her back. Given that she never stopped being awful to you, and has now shown that she plans to continue to be awful.
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Nov 11, 2017 10:38
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Forgive Erika
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Nov 11, 2017 16:15
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It's about a month late, but the profiles page has been updated.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:56
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To me, having closure would mean having access to the truth if it's available and then taking on a nuanced perspective on things after some time, then moving on. I could understand Battler's attempts to throw Ange off the single-minded pursuit of the truth if at this point there's no realistic way of finding out what happened on that day, but throwing a completely sugary coat over everything was definitely not what Ange needed. I'm kinda looking forward to an apology for messing with a grieving person's heart. 
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Nov 11, 2017 18:39
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Battler is actually right, though.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:45
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Tired Moritz posted:Battler is actually incompetent, though. Ftfy. Battler should not be a therapist. Ange: And so my life has been a terrible hell from which I want to escape from by any means possible, made so in no small part due to my extremely abusive aunt putting me into situations in which ensured my isolation and ostracism from my fellow human beings. Battler therapist: Have you... tried loving them more? I'm pretty sure they're a good person underneath. Can't judge a book by its cover! Ange: *flips a table*
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Nov 12, 2017 02:35
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| # ? May 21, 2024 06:35 |
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more like Battler: have you tried not holding a grudge over your dead aunt? she's dead ange
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Nov 12, 2017 02:37
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