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pidan posted:There is no equipment, only three wires. The black one is the phase as confirmed by our equipment. We can't get current to flow from black to blue, but it flows as expected from black to green, if green is the neutral wire that should be blue. I assumed they just used the wrong color wire, could we really close a circuit with the ground wire? (And if so, is that bad?) Bad choice of wording on my part, I believe in the EU they call it the "earth wire". Forget the equipment stuff I said, that's American terminology. And yeah, it's possible to use the earthing wire to complete the circuit, but it's against code and good practice for several reasons. I'm going by kid sinister's color coding here because I'm not familiar with EU stuff at all, but if the blue is typically neutral and it's not competing the circuit, it is open somewhere and that needs to be corrected, and the fixtures need to be properly wired.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:48
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I just looked it up and it confirmed what you said, connecting to the earth wire will make the lamp work and connects back to neutral somehow, but it's bad because the earth wire is not supposed to carry current on a regular basis and might even cause a fire. Fortunately we only had each of the lamps on for a few minutes, we'll call an electrician tomorrow and keep you updated. Thank you!
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Nov 6, 2017 21:54
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pidan posted:So you're saying that the green wire is the ground after all? Yes it's the ground. It should always be the ground. Even if it wasn't, you'd need to correct it anyway. Check the other end of that cable! Your blue wire isn't connected at the other end. Yes, you can complete a circuit with the ground. Like I said before, ground and neutral are bonded to each other at the main panel. Every electrical circuit needs both a power source and a return. Ground is normally not energized and is only supposed to be used as a return path during a short. In fact, using it as the regular return path is dangerous since metal cases and stuff are grounded. Under the right conditions, it's possible to touch an energized ground and get shocked. edit: you shouldn't need to call an electrician. Turn off that circuit and check the nearby boxes on that same circuit. I'd be willing to bet that someone forgot to strip and connect it at the other end. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 01:05
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Weird problem I've been trying to figure out: moisture in my electrical panel. When it rains or when it's especially moist outside, one side of of breakers in the panel have moisture between the breakers. I've confirmed that water is not entering through the service entrance; it just appears to be moisture buildup from condensation. This is in a basement which is technically conditioned space but does get humid. Moisture buildup is worse in the fall and winter. This is a Cutler Hammer panel with a copper bus bar so I'm not too concerned about bus bar corrosion, but there is some rust buildup at the bottom of the panel and some rust staining on the breakers themselves. Can there be enough residual heat from the breakers to cause moisture if the ambient air temperature is cool enough? And can moisture degrade the breaker internals to prevent the breaker from tripping? In any case, looks like it's time for a new dehumidifer.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:33
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Helvetica Sucks posted:Weird problem I've been trying to figure out: moisture in my electrical panel. When it rains or when it's especially moist outside, one side of of breakers in the panel have moisture between the breakers. I've confirmed that water is not entering through the service entrance; it just appears to be moisture buildup from condensation. This is in a basement which is technically conditioned space but does get humid. Moisture buildup is worse in the fall and winter. Is the panel mounted directly to a cement wall? I've found that mounting a piece of plywood to an unfinished basement wall (between panel and wall) prevents this.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:42
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Blackbeer posted:Is the panel mounted directly to a cement wall? I've found that mounting a piece of plywood to an unfinished basement wall (between panel and wall) prevents this. It's mounted on some lovely particle board. The board is only nailed at the top so I should be able to slip a piece of plywood or foamboard insulation behind it to get it further away from the cold wall.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:49
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Oh and while moisture is obviously bad for your panel and breakers, modern breakers are meant to fail in an open state. Wouldn't hurt to exercise the breakers by turning them off and on.
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Nov 7, 2017 04:00
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kid sinister posted:Yes it's the ground. It should always be the ground. Even if it wasn't, you'd need to correct it anyway. Check the other end of that cable! Your blue wire isn't connected at the other end. We called the electrician this morning and he claims that old houses only have two wires (it is grounded in some other way), that the green wire should be used and that he won't change the wire colors. I have my doubts, since iirc the lamps in the hallway (that have always worked) are connected to black & blue as they should be. And having a third wire for no reason seems unlikely. I don't feel comfortable taking apart the fuse box by myself, so I think my next step is to ask the other tenants how their lights are wired.
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Nov 7, 2017 09:09
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Buddy has a stove (220v) that is causing his breaker to trip, it's happened a few times, last night he said breaker was warm. He wants to replace the breaker but I'm not sure it's going to fix the issue.. I told him first thing was to take the back off the stove and check his connections on the lug. What else should he try?
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Nov 7, 2017 14:49
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pidan posted:We called the electrician this morning and he claims that old houses only have two wires (it is grounded in some other way), that the green wire should be used and that he won't change the wire colors. I have my doubts, since iirc the lamps in the hallway (that have always worked) are connected to black & blue as they should be. And having a third wire for no reason seems unlikely. I don't know much about Euro wiring, but this smells a lot like "old buildings don't have ground, so you just bond the ground and neutral together in the box for new installations" to me.
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Nov 7, 2017 15:26
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pidan posted:We called the electrician this morning and he claims that old houses only have two wires (it is grounded in some other way), that the green wire should be used and that he won't change the wire colors. I have my doubts, since iirc the lamps in the hallway (that have always worked) are connected to black & blue as they should be. And having a third wire for no reason seems unlikely. Call another electrician because that guy is lazy and stupid
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Nov 7, 2017 15:35
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pidan posted:We called the electrician this morning and he claims that old houses only have two wires (it is grounded in some other way), that the green wire should be used and that he won't change the wire colors. I have my doubts, since iirc the lamps in the hallway (that have always worked) are connected to black & blue as they should be. And having a third wire for no reason seems unlikely. If it's really an old 2 wire set up, that's "fine"...but you'd have to look inside the fuse/breaker box to verify. It's strange to me that you have 3 wire cable installed down this hallway, even if retrofitted on a building without a dedicated separate earthing conductor they should have used the typical colour for neutral. It's possible that part of it was retrofitted by a homeowner and/or hosed with by someone who didn't know their business.
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Nov 7, 2017 21:17
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angryrobots posted:If it's really an old 2 wire set up, that's "fine"...but you'd have to look inside the fuse/breaker box to verify. Update: we opened up one of the old lamps, and there are only two wires from the wall there (black and blue, work as expected). This itself makes me a bit uncomfortable given that it's a metal lamp at perfect bumping-into height and is apparently not grounded. We had the neighbor look at it, who said he used to live in this same unit. He didn't remember the wire configuration, but in his opinion, if the lamp lights up it's fine. My boyfriend wrote an email to the house management, to get them to send someone to check it out. And to get it in writing if they want us to use dubious wiring and it ends up causing problems. We don't dare look inside the breaker box, because it's dangerous, we wouldn't understand what we see anyway, and we might not be able to put everything back together. I guess we'll try to get an electrician to look at it at least for our own peace of mind. Until then we'll use plug-in lights.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:14
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Hopefully quick question. We are in a new house built in 1987. I'm in the process of replacing the current 30" electric stove with a 36" induction, but due to having to rip up the floors to run a new electric supply cable, it will take a week or two to get the new stove installed correctly (gently caress the PO that thought just pushing romex into thinset was a good idea). Anyway, the contractors disassembled the current stove and now I want to put it back for the next couple of weeks while we are getting everything installed. I reseated the cooktop in the island and pulled the original installation instructions, but I'm a little confused and want to check something before I finish up. The instructions say to: quote:1. Disconnect power. However, the supply cable for the cooktop has three wires: black, white and bare. Also, the green wire from the cooktop is wire-nutted to a small bare wire which is tapped to what looks like a ground screw on the casing of the cooktop. Pictures below. Supply Line:  Ground Line:  Cooktop wiring harness:  So, I'm not sure how to connect this up - if someone could correct me before I light myself on fire, I'd appreciate it. The supply has black, white and bare. The cooktop has black, white, red and green. Connecting black to black seems obvious for the hot, but not sure what to do with the red/white on the cooktop vs the white/bare on the supply. Also not sure if I need to care about the green on the cooktop being wired to the cooktop frame. Here are the cooktop installation instructions if they are useful: https://jennair.com/digitalassets/JED8230ADS/Installation%20Instruction_EN.pdf
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Nov 8, 2017 02:01
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jarito posted:
The new cable will have 3 conductors and a ground, right? The 3-wire instructions assume the supply wires are red (phase), black(phase), and white(neutral and ground). Your romex wire is (I assume) wired for 240V and is black(phase), white(phase), and bare copper (ground, which you don't want to use for a neutral). Hook line black to stove black, line white to stove red, and line bare ground to stove white and green. This is according to their instructions (except for the bare copper) and the assumption that this supply romex is wired for 240V and your ground and neutral are bonded in the panel. You really don't want to be using a bare copper as a neutral, but if this is the way it was hooked up before and you're fixing it, it is what it is. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 02:22
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tater_salad posted:Buddy has a stove (220v) that is causing his breaker to trip, it's happened a few times, last night he said breaker was warm. If connections to breaker are good and tight and it's tripping intermittently, I'd probably try replacing the breaker (assuming you don't have a current meter to monitor draw and there's no sign of arcing/melting on the plug and receptacle).
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Nov 8, 2017 02:29
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Helvetica Sucks posted:Weird problem I've been trying to figure out: moisture in my electrical panel. When it rains or when it's especially moist outside, one side of of breakers in the panel have moisture between the breakers. I've confirmed that water is not entering through the service entrance; it just appears to be moisture buildup from condensation. This is in a basement which is technically conditioned space but does get humid. Moisture buildup is worse in the fall and winter. Is it cold air coming in through the service entrance, and condensing on the slightly warm breakers?
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Nov 8, 2017 14:50
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devicenull posted:Is it cold air coming in through the service entrance, and condensing on the slightly warm breakers? I don't think that's how condensation works... wouldn't it have to be air coming in and hitting something colder than the air temp?
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Nov 8, 2017 15:40
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This could be the issue given the change in temperature over the course of the day. Cold enclosure w/ slightly warmer air coming in as the day warms up. Should condense on the enclosure, but sealing the service entrance with duct putty would cut down on overall water vapor.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:50
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Can anyone tell if this box can support a ceiling fan? Its hard to make out, but there's a large threaded rod at the back of it.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:30
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There's really no way to know for sure from that picture. It does look like the shape of a fan rated box but it could still be improperly supported. If you're feeling adventurous one way to find out is a few pull-ups  I don't know how comfortable you are with taking it apart more but getting a clearer shot of the inside without that bracket and the wiring in the way might help.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:13
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We bought this 1,500 watt space heater last week. This morning we had it plugged into our den, and the lights in the playroom (other side of the house) went out with a breaker reset. At the time, we only had lights on in the house - no major appliances consuming energy other than the fridge. We do have overhead recessed lights in all rooms though so a lot of lightbulbs were being powered. Is there a way I can look and tell which outlet we should be using for this heater? I imagine there's a way to get it on a circuit which isn't drawing so much energy.
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Nov 9, 2017 19:55
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me your dad posted:We bought this 1,500 watt space heater last week. 1,500 W is 100% of a 15 amp breaker (15A * 120v * 80%) for continuous load. You should try to find a 20A circuit on which to run this monster heater. If your lights aren't LED, switch them.
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Nov 9, 2017 20:00
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H110Hawk posted:1,500 W is 100% of a 15 amp breaker (15A * 120v * 80%) for continuous load. You should try to find a 20A circuit on which to run this monster heater. If your lights aren't LED, switch them. Thanks! I will look at our box to see which has 20 amps. I will also look into LED lights.
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Nov 9, 2017 20:28
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me your dad posted:Thanks! I will look at our box to see which has 20 amps. I think it says that if you put your space heater on the "low" setting, it caps it to 1000 watts which will probably heat you fine if it is near you, and will give a lot more wiggle room.
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Nov 9, 2017 22:45
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opengl128 posted:Can anyone tell if this box can support a ceiling fan? Its hard to make out, but there's a large threaded rod at the back of it. Remove that metal bracket across it and take another picture.
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Nov 10, 2017 02:13
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Zero VGS posted:I think it says that if you put your space heater on the "low" setting, it caps it to 1000 watts which will probably heat you fine if it is near you, and will give a lot more wiggle room. That's handy to know, thanks. I'll probably still invest in LED lights though since we use so many.
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Nov 10, 2017 15:16
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me your dad posted:That's handy to know, thanks. I'll probably still invest in LED lights though since we use so many. LED lights aren't really an "investment" because they're dirt cheap these days. In MA there's a store that sells them for a buck each, and gives you a store credit for the amount you spend on them with no limit. So like spend $20 on bulbs, get $20 GC for net time.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:38
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Zero VGS posted:LED lights aren't really an "investment" because they're dirt cheap these days. In MA there's a store that sells them for a buck each, and gives you a store credit for the amount you spend on them with no limit. So like spend $20 on bulbs, get $20 GC for net time. Which store is this?
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Nov 10, 2017 23:33
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devicenull posted:Is it cold air coming in through the service entrance, and condensing on the slightly warm breakers? Blackbeer posted:This could be the issue given the change in temperature over the course of the day. Cold enclosure w/ slightly warmer air coming in as the day warms up. Should condense on the enclosure, but sealing the service entrance with duct putty would cut down on overall water vapor. Hmm, hadn't thought of this. This is service entrance cable, not conduit--where would the duct seal go? In the panel where the cable sheath is cut? The seal where the SE enters the meter box looks OK but guess it wouldn't hurt to seal it again.
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Nov 11, 2017 15:27
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Helvetica Sucks posted:Hmm, hadn't thought of this. This is service entrance cable, not conduit--where would the duct seal go? In the panel where the cable sheath is cut? The seal where the SE enters the meter box looks OK but guess it wouldn't hurt to seal it again. Not an issue w/o conduit. Normally you'd seal the lb outside and the male connector terminating in the panel.
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Nov 11, 2017 15:51
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sharkytm posted:Which store is this? Ocean State Job Lot, there's a bunch of them and if you've never shopped there you're in for a treat. Edit: might want to call you make sure they're still doing it but they've had the "Crazy Deal" offer on LEDs going for about a year now. I've gotten piles of 9w/60eqivilent, 40w retro styled bulbs that look like old filaments, outdoor floods etc. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 19:48
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Zero VGS posted:Ocean State Job Lot, there's a bunch of them and if you've never shopped there you're in for a treat. Oh, I've been there, just didn't know about that deal. I've lived here on the Cape for a decade, Job Lot is a favorite. 6-packs of Polar seltzer for a buck? Sign me up. Thanks for the info.
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Nov 11, 2017 23:24
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sharkytm posted:Oh, I've been there, just didn't know about that deal. I've lived here on the Cape for a decade, Job Lot is a favorite. 6-packs of Polar seltzer for a buck? Sign me up. Thanks for the info. Honest to god now that LED lights are cheap-to-free they should ban the widespread sale of filament bulbs. You still see them in Home Depot with this new bullshit marketing about how they give off a "fuller spectrum of light" or other horseshit. You should have to special order them if you need them as an easy bake oven replacement or something else that gives off heat, but if feels like an environmental/economical crime to try to do this audiophile-type push to bring them back in style. From a wiring perspective they give me so much more wiggleroom before blowing a breaker, across the whole house even over compact florescent it saves like 100 watts.
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Nov 12, 2017 03:43
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Oh, I'm an LED convert. My entire basement workshop is 100% LED, and I've put retrofit bulbs into our recessed fixtures. Thanks for the info on job lot.
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Nov 12, 2017 04:25
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Zero VGS posted:Honest to god now that LED lights are cheap-to-free they should ban the widespread sale of filament bulbs. You still see them in Home Depot with this new bullshit marketing about how they give off a "fuller spectrum of light" or other horseshit. California is heading this way. You cannot sell a lamp without a energy efficient bulb in it. It's why like target.com will not ship lamps to a CA address. (at least a year ago.)
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Nov 12, 2017 04:53
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Zero VGS posted:Honest to god now that LED lights are cheap-to-free they should ban the widespread sale of filament bulbs. You still see them in Home Depot with this new bullshit marketing about how they give off a "fuller spectrum of light" or other horseshit. You should have to special order them if you need them as an easy bake oven replacement or something else that gives off heat, but if feels like an environmental/economical crime to try to do this audiophile-type push to bring them back in style. my grandpa fought efficent bulbs because they weren't bright enough.. surprise even a 100w filament bulb isn't bright enough for his 95 year old rear end.. basically we'd need a search light to light up the whole room and he'd still maybe say he can't see well.
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Nov 12, 2017 06:53
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Zero VGS posted:Honest to god now that LED lights are cheap-to-free they should ban the widespread sale of filament bulbs. You still see them in Home Depot with this new bullshit marketing about how they give off a "fuller spectrum of light" or other horseshit. You should have to special order them if you need them as an easy bake oven replacement or something else that gives off heat, but if feels like an environmental/economical crime to try to do this audiophile-type push to bring them back in style. Is there a good alternative for appliances yet? I'm talking like oven lights, fridge lights, etc. Stick a CFL in a fridge and it won't be very bright for the 5-10 seconds the door is open. As for the oven, what's out there that can take 450F? tater_salad posted:my grandpa fought efficent bulbs because they weren't bright enough.. surprise even a 100w filament bulb isn't bright enough for his 95 year old rear end.. basically we'd need a search light to light up the whole room and he'd still maybe say he can't see well. You can get 400W-equivalent screw in CFLs... kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 19:49
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For the fridge, I would think an LED would be absolutely ideal. But ovens may be stuck with incandescents for the foreseeable future.
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Nov 12, 2017 19:51
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pidan posted:We called the electrician this morning and he claims that old houses only have two wires (it is grounded in some other way), that the green wire should be used and that he won't change the wire colors. I have my doubts, since iirc the lamps in the hallway (that have always worked) are connected to black & blue as they should be. And having a third wire for no reason seems unlikely. My uncle came by today and we discovered that there's a post-it note in the fuse box that says "green-yellow = 0" from which we have concluded that the wiring in this house is just weird and it might not burn down. Re: LEDs, we have them everywhere but in the dimmable lamp it looks really weird so we switched it for a halogen bulb. One of our LED lights whistles when it's on, is that something that can happen? We'll return it whatever the reason may be, but I'm curious.
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Nov 12, 2017 20:48
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