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So many posts have nobly died for this page...Spikeguy posted:Her with the kid gives her character a better arc. exquisite tea posted:Morrigan overall is a much less sympathetic character. Strongly disagree, actually. Evil woman humanized by motherhood is a terrible cliché.
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Nov 6, 2017 20:35
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To be fair Mom Morrigan does get a nice burn on Flemeth for being a poo poo mother and it lands nicely. gently caress off evil grandma.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:12
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Oh dear me posted:So many posts have nobly died for this page... She's not evil, though. She's more of a tearaway who is grounded by having a kid. Is that still a cliche?
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Nov 6, 2017 21:30
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Yeah Morrigan's not evil, isn't she like 18 in Origins? She just wants to get on with it and not gently caress around with side bullshit because she knows what has to happen at the end. She's a sheltered kid then who grew up over the decade to Inquisition, she doesn't need motherhood to do so but Kieran is an interesting part of it. I like her better when he's around. Tbf I didn't care for her in Origins.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:32
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Taear posted:She's not evil, though. She's more of a tearaway who is grounded by having a kid. Is that still a cliche? Yes. However I think you are too easy on Morrigan. In DAO she opposed any kind actions by the Warden, while supporting the slaughter of Circle mages because they were weak enough to have been locked in a tower by an army. She had no compassion and only admired power. And Inquisition doesn't show her being that different: plenty of otherwise heartless bastards manage to love their own children.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:43
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Morrigan having her kid enhances her character so much it really bums me out about the end of Origins. Because suicide by dragon has always been my way of ending that game, and I love the Orlesian Warden stuff. But if I want that, Morrigan doesn't get a kid.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:45
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I like following Morrigan into the mirror + kid, as she sort of describes the Warden as some eldrich lord of dong.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:30
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In addition to Morrigan cheering you on to murder the Circle, children and all, she also wants you to leave Redcliffe Village to be destroyed by the undead horde. Sure we need to get into the castle and that be easier if the castle wasn't surrounded by zombies that were created when we let every last villager be killed but that would entail...(gag) helping people and we can't have that. Zevran is a murderer-for-hire and he never comes off as even half as evil as Morrigan. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 00:36
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That's because Zevran's primary motivation is to just be alive. He doesn't really have interest in gaining power over anyone else, just to galvant about. The murder thing is a job and also for a long time someone would kill him if he didn't do it.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:47
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Morrigan may be a solipsistic person with poor fashion sense, but look who her goddamn mom is. Imagine Flemeth's parenting style as she is presented in Origins. She gets a bit more classy/less crazy with each iteration, but in the first she was basically a crazy bag lady with magic spells. If you can get Morrigan's approval up high enough that she'll actually have a semi normal conversation with you she tells you she'd never received a present just because. Of course she's got loving issues.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:48
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Man when you put it that way it's astounding that a world famous assassin guild can manage to raise less screwed up kids than anyone A broken shadow of a vengeful goddess is probably the only worse parent
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Nov 7, 2017 00:53
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SubponticatePoster posted:Morrigan may be a solipsistic person with poor fashion sense, but look who her goddamn mom is. The woman who keeps saving you? The woman who merged with the goddess of love and justice? We only have Morrigan's testimony for the bad things, and children get things wrong.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:59
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Ah yes, love and justice. The one who screamed "I will have my revenge!"
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Nov 7, 2017 01:07
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SubponticatePoster posted:Ah yes, love and justice. The one who screamed "I will have my revenge!" We know from Anders that justice gets twisted. But I would point out that Flemeth is massively powerful and yet has not wrought hideous vengeance upon the world. She has a better track record than any other significant power in the game (see eg wardens, templars, mages, chantry, teyrns).
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Nov 7, 2017 01:24
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Ehhh she absolutely wants vengeance, she just wants vengeance on a specific handful of beings and not the whole world. The fact that Solas absolutely flipped his poo poo and changed the fundamental workings of the world has further complicated the matter.
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Nov 7, 2017 01:42
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I'm going to play this game finally, but probably just once. Is there a guide to what is the "best" Keep state to start with or an explanation of what changes for everything? What I've found so far is sort of vague for fear of spoilers. I don't want to be spoiled needlessly, but am happy to get spoiled to the amount necessary to feel like I'm getting the most out of my one play through.
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Nov 7, 2017 02:17
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i cant believe that thru all the patches, dlc & changes the skyhold pyjamas remained
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Nov 7, 2017 02:22
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TEENAGE WITCH posted:i cant believe that thru all the patches, dlc & changes the skyhold pyjamas remained There's a wardrobe in your quarters that lets you change to better-looking clothes.
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Nov 7, 2017 02:26
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the idea that flemeth never intended harm to either morrigan or her child is a huge waste of the story arc and a huge loss of nerve on the part of the writers. it means flemeth was never a complicated or dangerous character for much of the series and that there were never any real stakes to morrigan's decision. it's especially grating when solas--a complicated and dangerous character on the same level as flemeth--was successfully carried off in the very same game.
Zane fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 03:35
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Luceo posted:There's a wardrobe in your quarters that lets you change to better-looking clothes. "better-looking" All of the cosmetic outfits are garbage.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:41
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So, four months and one major hurricane later and i've finished the game. I feel so liberated. also, i cant imagine going through trespasser as anything but a 2h combat roll reaver. that last boss fight was tough.
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Nov 7, 2017 06:11
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Shugojin posted:Ehhh she absolutely wants vengeance, she just wants vengeance on a specific handful of beings and not the whole world. Agreed, but that isn't unreasonable of her. She hasn't flipped and blown up a lot of innocents to make things happen. Zane posted:the idea that flemeth never intended harm to either morrigan or her child is a huge waste of the story arc and a huge loss of nerve on the part of the writers. In DAO Flemeth saves first your treaties and then your life, and does no one any harm at all. But Morrigan tells you bad things about her and then asks you to kill her because of what it says in a book that conveniently only she can read. I think making that turn out to be true would have been disappointingly simplistic. But I do hope that Flemeth is somehow a significant force in DA4, one way or another, because her story is shapeless now. What was she doing with that eluvian?
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Nov 7, 2017 10:09
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Sub Rosa posted:I'm going to play this game finally, but probably just once. Is there a guide to what is the "best" Keep state to start with or an explanation of what changes for everything? Honestly, not much matters. If you keep everyone you can from DAO/2 alive, some people in DAI will have a line or two to say about them, and you'll have some war table operations available. Mild spoilers ahead, but I've kept them vague: People you will definitely meet again in Inquisition are Leliana, Morrigan, Dagna (the dwarf who wanted to go to the Circle), Hawke. So maybe romance Leliana or Morrigan in DAO, to get more conversation choices. Alternatively defile the ashes and kill Leliana in DAO, to see how the writers get out of that. The people from earlier games you can meet in Inquisition, depending on your Keep choices, are Morrigan's child via the Dark Ritual, Anora (briefly) if queen, Alistair if ruler or warden, and Loghain. Obviously you need to keep the last two alive to meet them; if you want extended contact with Alistair, make sure he is just a warden, not king. (This will prevent you meeting Loghain.) If you keep everyone alive via the Dark Ritual, Morrigan will have a child who will briefly figure in DAI's plot. Lots of people like her story this way, I much prefer it without. E: I'd also add that if you're planning one completionist runthrough, you'll probably burn yourself out on the filler areas and be horribly overlevelled for the main quests. It would be better to resign yourself now to playing the game twice. It's the only way to see a chunk of early content anyway. Oh dear me fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 11:00
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Luceo posted:There's a wardrobe in your quarters that lets you change to better-looking clothes. woah completely blocked these from my memry, dragon age 3's aesthetic fits were still garbage tho
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Nov 7, 2017 11:58
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I think Morrigan talks about killing Templars hunting for them with her mother in DAO, so her hatred of the Circles isn't without any basis. She does e.g. speak up for Jowan. Flemeth can still be complicated and dangerous without being evil. There's not actually that many 'evil' characters in DA. The revelation that possession by Flemeth is voluntary is pretty consistent with our changed understanding of spirits and so on after DAO. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 12:30
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Fangz posted:I think Morrigan talks about killing Templars hunting for them with her mother in DAO, so her hatred of the Circles isn't without any basis. This would not make a decent person think that the mages imprisoned by the Templars deserve to be slaughtered. They didn't have the luck to be protected and trained from childhood by a powerful witch, so kill them all? Morrigan is all FYGM and power worship.
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Nov 7, 2017 12:50
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What I thought was weird is that I let Morrigan have that demon baby with Alpha Mac Tyr Loghain in one of my playthroughs, he survived against the archdemon, and they both helped out the Inquisition despite neither of them saying anything about their demon kid or even acknowledging one another's existence. I bet Loghain doesn't even pay child support.
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Nov 7, 2017 12:54
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SubponticatePoster posted:Morrigan may be a solipsistic person with poor fashion sense, but look who her goddamn mom is. Imagine Flemeth's parenting style as she is presented in Origins. She gets a bit more classy/less crazy with each iteration, but in the first she was basically a crazy bag lady with magic spells. If you can get Morrigan's approval up high enough that she'll actually have a semi normal conversation with you she tells you she'd never received a present just because. Of course she's got loving issues. Morrigan’s description of her childhood paints Flemeth as a massively abusive, smothering figure that has no understanding of the difference between “tough love” and just being an rear end. Every time she demands you do something terrible that makes no logical sense? That’s Morrigan parroting one of Flemth’s lessons with no real understanding of it like the dumb teenager she was back then. There’s a good reason she calls Flemeth out so much in the temple.
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Nov 7, 2017 13:25
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exquisite tea posted:What I thought was weird is that I let Morrigan have that demon baby with Alpha Mac Tyr Loghain in one of my playthroughs, he survived against the archdemon, and they both helped out the Inquisition despite neither of them saying anything about their demon kid or even acknowledging one another's existence. I bet Loghain doesn't even pay child support. Probably something like 2% of players did that outcome so I can see why they wouldn't bother to do anything with it. I still can't believe the next Dragon Age is probably about two years away.
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Nov 7, 2017 14:03
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Oh dear me posted:I'd also add that if you're planning one completionist runthrough, you'll probably burn yourself out on the filler areas and be horribly overlevelled for the main quests. It would be better to resign yourself now to playing the game twice. It's the only way to see a chunk of early content anyway. Thanks. Actually, yeah, the one time I tried playing it before I burned 20+ hours on the first area that apparently you should get out of as quick as possible. Could I get some more light spoilage of what the two different branches are if playing twice so maybe I can come up with two different Keep world states to match those two playthroughs? exquisite tea posted:What I thought was weird is that I let Morrigan have that demon baby with Alpha Mac Tyr Loghain in one of my playthroughs, he survived against the archdemon, and they both helped out the Inquisition despite neither of them saying anything about their demon kid or even acknowledging one another's existence. I bet Loghain doesn't even pay child support. There is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3W9rSzZu6c
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Nov 7, 2017 14:13
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Time to sacrifice posts again, let’s write some “inflammatory” things and if they live, welp. Hmm or maybe not? This is showing up....anyway people who totally dislike Sera because “bees” and “random” didn’t bother to listen to her for two seconds (if even captioned on mute) and interpret how hosed up her life has been and it sorta makes me judge-y. I always figured Kieran isn’t canon because of how poorly he seems to be included in the game. I mean yeah he’s a kid, but I’m unsure if it’s bad writing due to limitations of including random events from previous games in a story or just flat out bad writing. I mean if DA4 timeskips a decade he could be a potential companion, but there doesn’t seem to be enough care for that? I feel like he’d be an NPC who sends you a side mission via letter at best. SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 14:21
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exquisite tea posted:What I thought was weird is that I let Morrigan have that demon baby with Alpha Mac Tyr Loghain in one of my playthroughs, he survived against the archdemon, and they both helped out the Inquisition despite neither of them saying anything about their demon kid or even acknowledging one another's existence. I bet Loghain doesn't even pay child support. Was replaying Origins recently with just this outcome in mind. I did a City Elf murder lady with a couple of daggers. Pretty fun and different because I've never done a female pc in Origins. Though Alistair hated my murder elf after she spared Loghain even though she was romancing him and hardened him. Oh well. Loghain rules. I think I'm gonna sacrifice Hawke in this playthrough too because Loghain isn't getting out of paying child support that easily. e: I think to see the above linked Morrigan/Loghain scene you have to go recruit Morrigan before Adamant. So you have to do WEWH first. SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Time to sacrifice posts again, let’s write some “inflammatory” things and if they live, welp. He doesn't really matter now that Flemeth took his destiny from him. He's just a regular old kid now. I guess he might be a mage still though that hasn't been made clear. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 15:51
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Sub Rosa posted:Could I get some more light spoilage of what the two different branches are if playing twice so maybe I can come up with two different Keep world states to match those two playthroughs? You will have a quest to get support from either the mages or the templars, you can't do both. As a result of your choice you'll also have a different minor quest chain to follow later, dealing with the group that doesn't support you. So you could do a pro-mage run (be a female elf mage romancing Solas for maximum content) and a pro-templar run. The Keep doesn't matter much but it does mean you could do one run with godbaby and one without, and possibly also one with Alistair a warden, and one with him not a warden but Loghain alive if you want to see him again. (If neither are alive there is a substitute, you won't miss anything.) Oh dear me fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 17:03
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Anyway people who totally dislike Sera because “bees” and “random” didn’t bother to listen to her for two seconds (if even captioned on mute) and interpret how hosed up her life has been and it sorta makes me judge-y. I didn't care for her personality just because LOLRandom isn't to my taste, but that's a personal thing. My main issue was that she never sheds her prejudices and willful ignorance, on magic in particular but also the value of order and structure. I was a mage who ranked up a lot of favor with her and the best outcome is she can grudgingly admit that you're an exception that proves the rule. It wears thin after awhile, especially when you've got to walk on eggshells to keep her favor up. You are right that there is justification for why she is the way she is though, and she does occasionally have a valid insight on things.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:14
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FunkMonkey posted:I didn't care for her personality just because LOLRandom isn't to my taste, but that's a personal thing. My main issue was that she never sheds her prejudices and willful ignorance, on magic in particular but also the value of order and structure. I was a mage who ranked up a lot of favor with her and the best outcome is she can grudgingly admit that you're an exception that proves the rule. It wears thin after awhile, especially when you've got to walk on eggshells to keep her favor up. You are right that there is justification for why she is the way she is though, and she does occasionally have a valid insight on things. I feel the same way about Fenris. I was nothing but nice to him on my mage and he still hated my guts at the end. By the end I was basically like gently caress you dude I'll gladly kill you because I've bent over backwards to be nice to you and you still hate me and want to kill me.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:16
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I will say that I found the back and forth oneupmanship between Sera and Vivienne in their companion dialogues to be one of the most entertaining things in the game.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:21
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Oh dear me posted:This would not make a decent person think that the mages imprisoned by the Templars deserve to be slaughtered. They didn't have the luck to be protected and trained from childhood by a powerful witch, so kill them all? Morrigan is all FYGM and power worship. Whether Morrigan is a decent person or not, her reasoning would probably be that those mages chose to be complicit in the system and turn the blind eye as their fellows were made tranquil, as kids were killed for failing the pointless harrowing, as their 'protector' templars ran rampant. They signed up to this system, with what the Rite of Annulment implies, so her logic is that it's hypocritical now for them to ask for help from *her* when they reap the predictable consequences of such a surrender. She doesn't evilly want to kill them all, but rather she doesn't think she should step in and help. Especially help people like Wynne who in this quest will attack her when she learns she's an apostate.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:43
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Oh dear me posted:This would not make a decent person think that the mages imprisoned by the Templars deserve to be slaughtered. They didn't have the luck to be protected and trained from childhood by a powerful witch, so kill them all? Morrigan is all FYGM and power worship. Whether Morrigan is a decent person or not, her reasoning would probably be that those mages chose to be complicit in the system and turn the blind eye as their fellows were made tranquil, as kids were killed for failing the pointless harrowing, as their 'protector' templars ran rampant. They signed up to this system, with what the Rite of Annulment implies, so her logic is that it's hypocritical now for them to ask for help from *her* when they reap the predictable consequences of such a surrender. She doesn't evilly want to kill them all, but rather she doesn't think she should step in and help. Especially help people like Wynne who in this quest will attack her when she learns she's an apostate.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:43
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Nov 7, 2017 17:47
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Sacrifice
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