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the old ceremony posted:ariel says al-saqr is the only real man in this thread agreed
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Nov 4, 2017 23:37
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antisemites and zionists: the thread is on fire 2: the eletric boogaloo
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Nov 4, 2017 23:38
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Its doubly funny when you realize he must have never even heard the song that his avatar references to post like he does
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Nov 4, 2017 23:43
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why can't al saqr just post dispassionately about the decades long brutal apartheid regime? kind of telling that he's emotionally invested in all of this untold human suffering
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Nov 5, 2017 01:44
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I'd say emotional outbursts aren't improving the conversation, but lately the conversation has largely been "surely, defeated people should accept oppression without complaining, it's a fair cop after all" so...
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Nov 5, 2017 02:03
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Absurd Alhazred posted:You know, if Zionism, and particularly Israeli policy in and around the 6 Day War, had failed, I would be worried, as a Jew, at someone being so blind and spiteful against another Jew, ignoring any specifics of what they did, LOL. holy poo poo. What a dumb statement. so basically what I'm getting here is that you're OK with invasions and occupations of other peoples countries cause you're worried that people might be mad at someone who ethnically cleansed an entire people and subjugated them under apartheid. I hate ISIS, and I think they all deserved to die. I dont give a poo poo about them being muslims because they are evil vicious people according to every humanitarian moral standard. I will never ever forgive or reconcile or whitewash them SPECIFICALLY because of what they did. I hate Yhitzak because he SPECIFICALLY committed massive crimes against humanity and ethnically cleansed people and put people under decades of enslavement and illegally invaded and occupied multiple countries and murdered countless people all for the sake of a racist apartheid regime. I will never forgive or reconcile with that sort of person because my values are anti-racism, democracy and human rights. so I'm WRONG to hate and spite racists and apartheid regimes and it's core leadership? I'm WRONG for hating people who murder, oppress and ethnically cleanse the weak & helpless? I’m WRONG for hating someone who oversaw the invasion and occupation of multiple countries and the deaths of their citizens? Just listen to yourself. you're talking like a blind sectarian nationalist, Try to live up to human rights as your standards sometime. Absurd Alhazred posted:and for which they were murdered - among other things, for being in charge of the first Israeli government depending on the majority-Arab parties to keep going because of his policies - to fit them into your antisemitic (sorry, "anti-Zionist") worldview. *yawn* another tripe casting of my views as anti-semitic, cant you do better and argue the actual historical facts on the ground? We’ve already gone through this before. Also, the same Arab Parties who are treated like third class citizens and dirt and their leadership was hounded out the country. but dont take my word for it, I listen to what they have to say:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg8B9dgf7As https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWoyAyr78o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_yZ3B-ZE58 quote:But Zionism succeeded, and now the idea that people like you are a threat to me or my kind, that Jews are at a constant threat of genocide, an idea entirely tenable not 50 years ago, is laughable. So, you know, go gently caress yourself. I think this comment in and of itself is a really quality demonstration of the many fallacies, let’s peel this onion, shall we? 1) The framing of themselves as under threat. What’s amazing about this comment specifically is how much it ignores the reality of the fact that from day zero it was the Zionist apartheid project that was on the offensive and was entirely the people actually doing the threatening to everyone else, like we can go over the history of who was it that was actively suppressing the Palestinians from day one (even going all the way back to 1936 when the Zionists helped the british put down the Palestinians independence movement by force), we can go over who did all of the invasions and occupations, we can go over who had all the military power and who was unequivocally supported in an unlimited fashion by the great superpowers of the world, etc. but I think anybody with half a braincell and some reading comprehension would easily tell you that the threat and offensive action was primarily coming from the apartheid regime from the very beginning. It’s the Palestinians who are actually threatened with extinction and not vice versa. 2) Don’t equate the regime of Israel with all jews, I can easily pull up lots of left leaning human rights supporters and activists who share my views and lots of academics in America who were actively harassed and had their careers ruined by the supporters of apartheid, we’ve already discussed this at great length before in this thread. The government of Israel and it’s supporters are a fundamentally a ethno-nationalist reactionary racist apartheid regime, and I refuse to allow you to hide behind the typical tactic of painting people who hate apartheid and those who commit it and support it as anti-semites. 3) the sneaky tactic Zionists like to pull that people who oppose the apartheid regime, people who hate what they’ve done to the Palestinians and the other countries that surrounds them, who hate the war criminals and racists and murderers who built that disgusting regime, who want to see a future in which Palestinians are treated like human beings and live as equals either in a democratic state for all it’s citizens or hell even be left alone in the west bank and gaza, that somehow it’s the same thing as the genocide hitler committed against the jews of Europe. you're being stupid. Get a loving grip. 4) Also, this plays into the cartoonish vilification of Palestinians and the arabs who support them, what you're doing now is painting my disgust for a war criminal racist who was central to setting up a vicious apartheid regime, and twisting that into the typical 'you hate him cause he's jewish' argument. a tactic that only works on a bunch of right wing evangelical Christian rubes, when anyone who does even the most basic research will find that the reality is that the Palestinian struggle from day one was never to ‘erase the jews’ or to commit genocide or anything like that but to fight back against a historical crime against humanity being perpetrated against them buy a cruel and unrelenting colonial apartheid regime, the leadership of which Yhitzak belonged to and played a key role in. I’m not interested and neither were the Palestinians interested in becoming a threat to you and 'your kind' or whatever lie you tell yourself, what people are and have been is for the human rights and freedom of people from apartheid and terror and freedom from a racist regime bent on erasing them little by little. The second the Palestinians are left alone free to either decide their own fate, or free as equal citizens in a democracy, then the problem will be solved. Finally what I hope this discussion shows that, proving my point, that ultimately, when confronted with facts, the mask will slip little by little and Zionists will drop any pretensions of being anything other than a might makes right oppressive apartheid force. When I show you the crimes against humanity of the people who led the Zionist movement, your response ultimately is a fascist 'might makes right' mentality. at the end of the day they don’t give a poo poo and they’ll use force to get their way. At this point your moral failure is clear as day and I am in the right after all. My friend, the arc of history is long and fluid, and despite your arrogance and your belief in your weapons and guns and apartheid, the struggle for democracy, human rights, freedom, equality for all human beings against the forces of reaction, racism and apartheid will continue to the end of time if it must and all people who hold those values dear will fight for those things hand in hand, Muslims, Christians and Jews, until everyone gets their democratic human rights and nobody is oppressed and subjugated under apartheid, racism or fascism, whether you like it or not. No group of people are more emblematic to the struggle for freedom and humanity in the middle east than the Palestinians, neither me nor any other Arab democrat want anything more than that freedom for them. And you too, can pick different people and ways to define yourself! you dont need to define yourself and hang your identity with with these vicious racist fucks like Rabin, Peres etc. or by vicious crones like Meir or anybody else in that lovely edifice to racism. you can pick the path of human rights, freedom and democracy, you can choose a different path for yourself and fight or align yourself on the side of what's right rather than allow your own identity be taken by those criminals, cool dudes fight for freedom and human rights, and against racism and apartheid even if they dont benefit, and unlike zionism, membership isnt exclusive. so I hope one day you hop on in. Until then, gently caress all racists, gently caress all apartheid supporters, gently caress all ethno-nationalist and religious fanatics and colonialists till the end of time. and especially gently caress the people who hurt the Palestinians, Yhitzak and all his poo poo friends included. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 02:37
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Hobologist posted:Interestingly the Nuremberg trials included charges against the Germans for waging aggressive war going back to the invasion of Poland in 1939, and since a settled maxim of the law is that you can't punish people for actions that weren't illegal until after they did them, the only logical solution, if you believe in the Nuremberg verdicts, is that waging war to acquire territory was already illegal in 1939. At any rate, it certainly was by 1945, or 1948 when al-Naqba happened. While he would agree with every sentence handed out at Nuremberg because he believes in victor's justice so anything the winner does to the vanquished is by definition moral, he would disagree with the charges because under his morality the only crime the Nazis committed was losing the war.
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Nov 5, 2017 03:07
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Oh lookit there, Al Saqr can count to 1936 (and ignore some pogroms) but he can't count to 1929 or 1921. Oh well, I'm just glad my horse faced pig loving murderer brain can count that far back.
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Nov 5, 2017 05:42
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Al-Saqr posted:so I'm WRONG to hate and spite racists and apartheid regimes and it's core leadership? I'm WRONG for hating people who murder, oppress and ethnically cleanse the weak & helpless? I’m WRONG for hating someone who oversaw the invasion and occupation of multiple countries and the deaths of their citizens? Got it in 1 there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw
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Nov 5, 2017 06:24
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You can in fact be a Saudi Arabian AND a walking pile of poo poo shaped vaguely like a human being. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's almost like growing up in a country where the textbooks cite the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historic fact has some sort of correlation to being an Anti-Semitic piece of dogshit. But that can't be, because we already established Al-Saqr could totally have Jewish friends... you know, if he had any Jewish friends. Which he absolutely could have. But doesn't, actually. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 06:56
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as the first shots are fired across the borderline i'm seen on the horizon dancing sorrowfully, my body a writhing grapevine laden down with breasts
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Nov 5, 2017 07:15
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Xander77 posted:You can in fact be a Saudi Arabian AND a walking pile of poo poo shaped vaguely like a human being. The two are not mutually exclusive. help im choking on my dates from laughing too hard
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Nov 5, 2017 08:17
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One would think that having a biased education and education that is wholly lies are two different things but hey antisemites got to stick together. Why would antisemitism surprise anyone though? After all this thread is collection of people that consider stabbing a piece of paper worse thing then stabbing a living breathing human being. As long the paper bears image of an arab and living breathing human being is a Jew. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 5, 2017 08:34
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It's the sweet sound of unsubstantiated libel and my favourite; that in caring about the Palestinians we don't care enough about the Israelis. Truly, in centering our cares around the victims and not the perpetrators, we are the true monsters. Let me just go right now and suggest the Palestinians line up in the street in an orderly line so an Israeli tank can (carefully!) drive over all of them.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:47
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Ahahahaha oh my god it's an Israeli accusing another national of having a biased and nationalistic history education (Which... is definitely on way to describe teaching The Protocols of Zion)
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Nov 5, 2017 08:47
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Deceitful Penguin posted:It's the sweet sound of unsubstantiated libel and my favourite; that in caring about the Palestinians we don't care enough about the Israelis. Deceitful Penguin posted:Truly, in centering our cares around the victims and not the perpetrators, we are the true monsters. Let me just go right now and suggest the Palestinians line up in the street in an orderly line so an Israeli tank can (carefully!) drive over all of them. Lady Morgaga fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 08:49
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Xander77 posted:Do tell. What do you actually know about "biased and nationalistic history education" in Israel? Or you can listen to the woman discuss the topic herself, I suppose. Lady Morgaga posted:You care about palestinians??!!?? Ahahahahahahahahaha You will fight Israel to the last drop of their blood.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:04
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"Palestinians are not shown in Israeli text books. Ok, they're shown, but they're depicted as terrorists. Ok, they're shown as something other than terrorists, but they're stereotypical, with no resemblance to real life (showing a Bedouin in traditional garb - I can literally walk down to the center of my town and take a picture of a Bedouin who looks like that). Ok, all / none of the above, and they're described as a 'problem'". "Israeli maps show blank spaces where Palestinians live (show a map with a blurry 'white space = Palestinian authority territory' label)" "The natural colors of the country are desert-like. Anything green in Israel was imported by European settlers (and that's a BAD thing)" That's... a point of view really designed to appeal to people who don't know actually know a lot. Like you. ... It's been a while since I've read Israeli history books, but I guess it's entirely plausible that their perspective is "we always sought peace with our neighbors, and any wars that took place were due to aggressive actions on their part".
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Nov 5, 2017 09:25
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Xander77 posted:"Palestinians are not shown in Israeli text books. Ok, they're shown, but they're depicted as terrorists. Ok, they're shown as something other than terrorists, but they're stereotypical, with no resemblance to real life (showing a Bedouin in traditional garb - I can literally walk down to the center of my town and take a picture of a Bedouin who looks like that). Ok, all / none of the above, and they're described as a 'problem'". Google 'Pallywood'. There's your modern Protocols.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:33
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I'm sure there are better ways to debate Al-Saqr's assertions than attacking him for his racial heritage.
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Nov 5, 2017 11:21
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Xander77 posted:"The natural colors of the country are desert-like. Anything green in Israel was imported by European settlers (and that's a BAD thing)" That's factually true; anything green and not imported by settlers has been bulldozed by Israel. Also, it is indeed a bad thing because growing stuff in the desert means depleting aquifers, so you can get two or three decades of agriculture out of it, tops. Then the whole thing comes tumbling down. Lady Morgaga posted:Of course. Pity Jew cannot be a victim and arab cannot be perpetrator isnt it? And yes you do that. And these black thugs in US cities, with their anti-white racism, why don't we talk about it????
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Nov 5, 2017 12:14
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Cat Mattress posted:That's factually true; anything green and not imported by settlers has been bulldozed by Israel.
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Nov 5, 2017 12:27
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2/3rds of Israel are the Negev, a desert I'm pretty sure. But I'm also pretty sure that this territory, a part of the 'fertile crescent' has had agriculture and lush indigenous flaura and fauna since just about forever. I don't even know if this is hasbara or counter-hasbara anymore, help.
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Nov 5, 2017 12:45
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emanresu tnuocca posted:2/3rds of Israel are the Negev, a desert I'm pretty sure. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 17:23 on May 29, 2018 |
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Nov 5, 2017 13:11
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Lady Morgaga posted:One would think that having a biased education and education that is wholly lies are two different things but hey antisemites got to stick together. You get a swastika, and you get a swastika, and you get a swastika! Look under your seats, swastikas for everyone!
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Nov 5, 2017 13:15
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Sure is a shame that Israel is the most anti-semitic country on this planet.
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Nov 5, 2017 18:46
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Xander77 posted:"Israeli maps show blank spaces where Palestinians live (show a map with a blurry 'white space = Palestinian authority territory' label)"
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Nov 7, 2017 00:29
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In conclusion, Ytzhak Rabin is a land of contrasts.
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Nov 7, 2017 01:47
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Ograbme posted:Is this actually true? It radicalizes the Israeli center. Justly or not, the only way to solve the conflict is to win an Israeli election. The right of return is a non starter in Israeli politics, and there's no realistic scenario where they'd ever accept it. Therefore, supporting BDS means supporting perpetual war, and the occupation never ending. Nebalebadingdong posted:You talk a big game about being pro-immigration and anti-bibi, but you're against anything would put these beliefs into practice. Writing checks you know can't be cashed is a form of cowardice. BDS is the same reactionary bullshit that has repeatedly failed on both sides. The peace process hasn't failed, it's been repeatedly sabotaged. I support the peace process and a two state solution. I repeatedly argue with supporters of Likud and Jewish Home elsewhere, they just aren't very prevalent here. What exactly else do you expect me to do as an American with otherwise no ties to the conflict? tentative8e8op posted:Hey, a quick question I've had on my mind for a while is whether you consider the entry of Palestinians into the State of Palestine as part of the "right of return," or if you are referring exclusively to Israel itself having to accept returning refugees when you say so. The latter. This has been a point of contention for me with plans that don't give the PA full sovereignty over their borders for instance. They should be two distinct states with the discretion to set any internal policies they want. ModernMajorGeneral posted:Has anybody ever meaningfully proposed this? If someone proposes a policy, they're responsible for the implications of it, even if the initial claim was just an attempt to push the overton window. If is is really meant as a symbolic thing, then make that the literal text of the BDS platform. I have not seen a workable argument for how this policy this would actually be implemented in practice. If that's not what they meant, no one forced them to use that language. A literal reading is a completely fair reading, just as it is when someone is criticizing, say, some idiot Knesset legislator who proposes something horrific. team overhead smash posted:You are a literal war crimes apologist FYI. This isn't how US law works at least, so your point about justice is wrong. If something can't realistically be returned, equivalent monetary consideration is the usual remedy. And no, it can't be returned. Mass expulsions was a bad idea in 1948, it was a bad idea when it happened to Mizrahim, and it'd be a bad idea today. History proves there is no way to do this without horrific levels of human suffering. The rest of your post is irrelevant, as I clearly indicated I was talking about Israel proper, not the settlers.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:12
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https://twitter.com/RonanFarrow/status/927698523306516482
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Nov 7, 2017 03:13
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Kim Jong Il posted:BDS is the same reactionary bullshit that has repeatedly failed on both sides. The peace process hasn't failed, it's been repeatedly sabotaged. Either you dont know what reactionary means or you're lying again. What I EXPECT is for you stop covering for your unpalatable opinions with lies
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Nov 7, 2017 03:54
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Kim Jong Il posted:I support the peace process and a two state solution. * *the greater union of Israel and more Israel, inaugurated after the total surrender of the Palestinians.
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Nov 7, 2017 04:01
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Either you dont know what reactionary means or you're lying again. Where have I lied? It's literally reactionary because they want to press a magic button and turn the clock back to 1947. It's reactionary because it's a right-wing, ethnonationalist movement devoted to endless, perpetual war regardless of its "progressive" trappings.
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Nov 7, 2017 04:17
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Kim Jong Il posted:It radicalizes the Israeli center. Justly or not, the only way to solve the conflict is to win an Israeli election. The right of return is a non starter in Israeli politics, and there's no realistic scenario where they'd ever accept it. Therefore, supporting BDS means supporting perpetual war, and the occupation never ending. So at least you are aware that you are charging BDS with Israel's crimes. The next step is to recognize that only Israel is responsible for Israel's crimes. Can you do it?
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Nov 7, 2017 04:32
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i think we should charge america with israel's crimes
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Nov 7, 2017 04:51
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bibi is from loving philadelphia there are a lot of pigs in israel but only some of them are israeli
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Nov 7, 2017 04:51
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's reactionary because it's a right-wing, ethnonationalist movement devoted to endless, perpetual war regardless of its "progressive" trappings. But enough about zionists
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Nov 7, 2017 05:11
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we must destroy israel... from within
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Nov 7, 2017 05:17
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Kim Jong Il posted:Where have I lied? This is a lie
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Nov 7, 2017 13:29
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Nebalebadingdong posted:This is a lie congrats, you've discovered his gimmick
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Nov 7, 2017 14:21
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