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JP sucks big time. That's not judgment on how far he could go, it could be pretty far, but Jeff is getting pissed at him in Tribals because of how much of a dud he is. We also know he said nothing at all in the Katrina tribal, while Alan was going off like crazy on him. All he ever does is sit there. I think his winner equity is zero. I think he's a big casting misfire.
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Nov 6, 2017 20:56
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I'm just kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt that he might just be laying low because everyone around him is overplaying and you shouldn't make a big target of yourself this early or do a ton of gaming while the dynamics are still shifting around. Its hard for me to see the way Ryan handled Ali and Chrissy handled Roarke and then take it all that seriously when they announce that JP is a bad player who doesn't game enough even though he outlasted both of those people. You know what I mean? Maybe he's just got a better game approach and strategy than the gamebots? I mean... I don't REALLY think that. I think he's probably just a basic Ken/JT guy who wants to prove his worth in camp and comps and probably is never going to start hardcore gaming or get into a ton of drama. But I just feel we're probably a little influenced by Alan, Ryan, and Chrissy bad mouthing him (in fairness I think Ben did too and he seems more balanced).
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Nov 6, 2017 21:47
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Nihonniboku posted:That said. I'm rewatching Cook Islands, and god drat, Candice is the very epitome of white privilege. Each time she was sent to Exile Island, I giggled with glee. Fun fact: her parents bought her a Cadillac Escalade for getting a 1600 on the SAT.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:48
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Why would you ever publicly boast that past the age of 17?
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Nov 6, 2017 21:50
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Ken and Ozzy were both terrible and couldn’t win. Hell, both have made it to the end and couldn’t win. “If you vote me out, I won’t provide fish for the tribe anymore.” They’re both so terrible and thought this that you’re probably not quite sure which one said it. No one who thinks that can make a winning impression at FTC.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:54
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I think, based on what we were shown, Ken played a game that could have won in a season where the cast was less focused on Building A Resume. It seems like he was edited more sympathetically than he might have been perceived on the island though so who knows
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Nov 6, 2017 22:31
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Yeah, Ken was just an "old school" survivor who had a cast of "new school" players who were all gameboty. Ken didn't think that way and didn't adapt so he couldn't win their respect. He didn't really seem to do anything actively wrong and seemed generally well liked and respected beyond the couple of kids who resented dad/older brother talking down to them. But it was a bad fit for that cast and for a lot of recent casts. If this cast thinks the way Ryan and Chrissy do than JP might be dead in the water the same way. But its early still and right now Joe's the only other "gamebot" I can sense. I actually think there's a potentially weird thing happening where Ryan, Joe, and Chrissy are voting out all the other people who think like them and might be inadvertently creating a jury of people who don't. They seem to be taking the "take the game threats" approach but it might end up having an affect of losing the jury members who would be most sympathetic/open to their resumes.
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Nov 6, 2017 22:39
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It's not just about if the cast thinks a certain way, it's also about if JP deserves the benefit of the doubt. He really could just be a basically non-verbal idiot.STAC Goat posted:Yeah, Ken was just an "old school" survivor who had a cast of "new school" players who were all gameboty. Ken didn't think that way and didn't adapt so he couldn't win their respect. He didn't really seem to do anything actively wrong
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Nov 6, 2017 23:09
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Fast Luck posted:It's not just about if the cast thinks a certain way, it's also about if JP deserves the benefit of the doubt. He really could just be a basically non-verbal idiot. I still believe that Ken’s “test” was good for his alliance if bad for Ken. By outing Will it forces him to swap because his original alliance can’t trust him anymore. If Will doesn’t switch he gains all the fallout of switching with none of the benefit. The “test” fails if Will reacts spitefully instead of strategically. But Will showed he tended to approach the game strategically. That being said, I don’t believe Ken thought through that move and even if he had it basically guarantees he loses Will’s jury vote.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:27
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Yeah, if Ken was cast even as far back as Worlds Apart with a similar game he could have won. Wrong cast, wrong time. That isn't to say he plays a perfect game since he definitely has flaws; he gets along with certain people well but man he does not relate to people like Will or Chris at all. So his strategic game is poor and his social game is... limited. But he plays a good, loyal, physical game and certain juries will respect that. As for JP, he's doing even worse than Ken. At least Ken was very sympathetically edited for the first half of the game (which they wouldn't really do if he was that hapless). JP's been dead in the water past the first episode.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:28
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If you read between the lines with the way the cast talks about him, Ken got on a lot of people's nerves. They talk about him like they're trying really hard not to say bad things about him. Like they like and respect him as a person, but they don't really like being around him. Apparently, he was very preachy and didactic. Bret said he talked at people more than he talked to them. You know that one confessional Will had where he compared working with Ken to having your finger and toenails slowly ripped out? That's because the conversation he was having with Ken that day was not the first time they'd talked. Ken had been sort of "mentoring" Will for several days at that point, which basically entailed taking him on "fishing trips" and talking at him for hours at a time, only occasionally pausing to ask personal questions about Will's political beliefs. Sure, he was a good guy and his heart was in the right place. I could see Ken being a great guy to have dinner with every now and then; best in small doses. But being stranded with him for six weeks with no escape? I'd go insane. Most people would. And he had no idea he was chafing people that badly. That's why he got no votes.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:48
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Ok, Ken was definitely a weirdo and I think he kind of openly acknowledged that he had spent most of his life alone or in other countries/cultures or something and didn't really connect with people naturally? I think? Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else. And it was pretty obvious that a number of the millenials didn't like the way he kind of talked down to them, even though I don't think he meant it in a disrespectful way but Ken clearly saw himself as a "teacher" with a lot of useful knowledge for "surviving". And he's probably right. But ultimately his biggest game flaw was that he wasn't able to recognize that wasn't working with his cast and adjust. That's the biggest skill you can have in this game. But I think Ken still really could have worked with a different cast. Maybe an older one. Maybe a less gameboty one. He's just a bad fit for the "modern" Survivor game and casting. Although he was an interesting addition to give them something different. Fast Luck posted:It's not just about if the cast thinks a certain way, it's also about if JP deserves the benefit of the doubt. He really could just be a basically non-verbal idiot. He absolutely could be. I'm not saying he definitely isn't. I'm just not fully ready to close the book on the guy. Its seems at least plausible that he's just been rigidly sticking to a strategy of laying low pre-merge and proving his worth to the team and he might shift that up when its no longer a team game. But he also might not and be exactly what he appears to be. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 00:06
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Propaganda Machine posted:Fun fact: her parents bought her a Cadillac Escalade for getting a 1600 on the SAT. When she was a teenager, she definitely snuck one of her mom's wine coolers from the 4th of July party 2 years prior, thinking she was so bad. Of course she grew up to be the woman to betray her alliance for a cute boy.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:31
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Nihonniboku posted:When she was a teenager, she definitely snuck one of her mom's wine coolers from the 4th of July party 2 years prior, thinking she was so bad. I had no idea any of the Villians were cute boys. Lots of cute girls though.
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Nov 7, 2017 08:49
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Maybe Nihonniboku meant that other time she betrayed her tribe. You know, the one that landed her a spot on the "Heroes" tribe.
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Nov 7, 2017 09:25
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ApplesandOranges posted:I had no idea any of the Villians were cute boys. Lots of cute girls though. Right. She mutinied to be with Adam, who she hadn't been on a tribe with since day 7. And yes, I'll never understand how she was considered a "Hero". Jeff really had to jump through a lot of hoops to justify that.
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Nov 7, 2017 13:10
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They needed an even number of guys and girls on the Villians tribe and all the girls already picked for the Villians side were better. Meanwhile I feel like some of the Hero choices, while not bad, seem like a lopsided bunch; did they really think Sugar was going to do anything different her second time round? I don't know much about Danielle since I never watched Panama but she came in second so I assume she's better than Candice (which is not a very high bar).
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Nov 7, 2017 16:01
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It doesn't actually matter but I always thought it just weird she was designated a "Hero" when the only really memorable thing about her first season was betraying her tribe and not even benefiting from it. And then hilariously she did it a second time. I would have swapped Sandra because while i get her "Villain" designation with the poo poo talking and fish stealing and general "will do anything" attitude the circumstances of Pearl Islands and Fairplay basically made her the "hero" (or anti-hero, maybe) in memory. But like I said, it doesn't matter and it actually ended up working out rather beautifully because Candace went and repeated her one move and Sandra ended up tormenting Russell. So score one for the questionable tribe designations. I don't remember a lot about Danielle from either season really. I remember her being kind of a brat but there were so many bigger characters and assholes that it didn't stand out. Her Panama tribe is infamous for being a collection of lunatics and hotheads and characters. I wanna say she outlasted them for the same reason she kind of outlasted the Villains. She wasn't as crazy or as threatening. Not a terrible player, but just a mediocre one who gets by. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 18:27
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Yeah, Candice was blatantly a villain her first season and they could have easily just swapped her with someone like Danielle who was in the villains tribe for no reason. But I guess since she's a pretty blonde doctor she was a hero?
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Nov 7, 2017 18:32
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Casaya was the single greatest Survivor tribe of all time. This is not an arguable opinion, but rather a very simple fact.
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Nov 7, 2017 18:35
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Fast Luck posted:Yeah, Candice was blatantly a villain her first season and they could have easily just swapped her with someone like Danielle who was in the villains tribe for no reason. Yeah, the audacity of that woman to blow up on Penner several times for being a rat that couldn't be trusted. He mutinied WITH her because he thought that they were in a tight alliance. Fast Luck posted:But I guess since she's a pretty blonde doctor she was a hero? Hence my original argument that she is the epitome of white privilege.
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Nov 7, 2017 18:35
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I mean, I get WHY they put Candice as a Hero. The balance thing, beautiful blonde doctor, and that even though her mutiny was "villainous" the rest of her season she really was just there. She wasn't a season villain on Cook Islands. But one of the only two things anyone remembers her for from that season is a pretty villainous move (and the other one doesn't really have anything to do with her). Still in a way I kind of love that Candice's legacy is: 1st Try: Doesn't do anything until she betrays her tribe and then just gets picked off anyway. 2nd Try: Doesn't do anything until she betrays her tribe again and then just gets picked off again. 3rd Try: Her tribe just votes her out on Day 1 and she spends the rest of the island on Exile Island screaming at people. I mean, that's honestly gotta be one of the most embarrassing Survivor resumes.
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Nov 7, 2017 18:40
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oh my god, I completely forgot she came back a third time. oh my god, I just realized that she not only lives in my city, but she also works at the hospital where a lot of my friends also work. oh my god, she named her son after a confederate general. Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 18:47
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ApplesandOranges posted:I don't know much about Danielle since I never watched Panama but she came in second so I assume she's better than Candice (which is not a very high bar). Panama post-merge was the Terry Deitz show where the young people kept trying to get him out but he kept winning immunities and being awesome in general. I know Aras pretty well from his later appearance on the show and his podcast guest spots but I don’t remember a thing about him other than he and Danielle were villains to Terry’s game. Danielle even less so because she lost.
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Nov 7, 2017 18:51
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Panama post merge really is kind of an amazing narrative with characters that are so wacky that if it was a sitcom you'd call it too cartoonish to believe. My memory of Panama Aras is that he was a mostly ok kid who was basically Cirie's slower running partner. He got super obsessed with proving he was better than Terry and went kind of insane when he couldn't do it. Then at the end he finally beats Terry and comes to his senses, realizes he can't beat Cirie, and betrays her to take Danielle as his goat (before "goat" was really a thing... she was just easier to beat). I wouldn't call him a villain, especially compared to so many of his tribe mates. But he basically made himself Terry's arch rival for his "heroic" run against the numbers and eventually got consumed by it. Now that I think of it Aras' Panama was almost Oedipal. He spent the whole time trying to beat "dad" and he hosed "mom." STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 19:08
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What? No. Aras wanted Cirie at the end with him. She lost on a fire making tiebreaker against Danielle.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:18
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I hope they do HvV2 with the cast members after HvV, excluding the all-star seasons. A whole bunch of new potential there.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:24
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Propaganda Machine posted:What? No. Aras wanted Cirie at the end with him. She lost on a fire making tiebreaker against Danielle. Oh? I'm misremembering that completely, I guess. I thought Aras screwed her over at the end for the better shot. My bad. Its been awhile since i saw it.
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Nov 8, 2017 07:23
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STAC Goat posted:Oh? I'm misremembering that completely, I guess. I thought Aras screwed her over at the end for the better shot. My bad. Its been awhile since i saw it. No worries man. It's actually why Aras is generally considered a poor winner. Wanting to take Cirie to the end was Woo-style suicide, except even worse.
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Nov 8, 2017 07:32
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There's probably a balance between 'taking such an obvious goat that it'll lose you respect' and 'take someone who's good to earn you brownie points but not good enough that they'll beat you'.
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Nov 8, 2017 11:27
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ApplesandOranges posted:'taking such an obvious goat that it'll lose you respect' When did this ever happen?
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Nov 8, 2017 13:17
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Lone Goat posted:When did this ever happen? Never.
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Nov 8, 2017 13:56
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Lone Goat posted:When did this ever happen? I kind of lost respect for Boston Rob in Redemption Island, even though he won, because Natalie and Philip were total followers/goats. But I'm sure that doesn't count anyway, and that season was pretty blah overall.
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Nov 8, 2017 14:36
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Is there a statistic for million dollar mistakes? By which I mean, how many people A. Had the power to eliminate whoever they wanted at penultimate tribal council B. Could have beaten the other finalist, but C. Chose instead to take the season's winner. So it doesn't count if the winner wins final immunity (Cambodia), if the losing finalist loses no matter what (MvGX), or if there is a fire-making challenge. Off the top of my head, I can think of Brad Culpepper (would've beaten Tai via Troyzan tiebreaker), Woo Hwang (would've almost certainly beaten Kass), and Lillian Morris (would've beaten Fairplay because Drake-minus-Burton loving hated him). Those are all the examples I can think of from the seasons I've seen.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:19
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blue squares posted:Never. That's what I figured. AWarmBody posted:I kind of lost respect for Boston Rob in Redemption Island, even though he won, because Natalie and Philip were total followers/goats. But I'm sure that doesn't count anyway, and that season was pretty blah overall. His whole loving season was goats except for like two people.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:11
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Spergatory posted:Is there a statistic for million dollar mistakes? By which I mean, how many people Colby was the originator of this by taking Tina instead of Keith.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:12
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Brad over Tai isn't too clear, so I don't think even it can be included on this list. Sand Monster already said it but I think Colby taking Tina over Keith is the classic version of this blunder
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Nov 8, 2017 18:28
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AWarmBody posted:I kind of lost respect for Boston Rob in Redemption Island, even though he won, because Natalie and Philip were total followers/goats. But I'm sure that doesn't count anyway, and that season was pretty blah overall. That whole season was stacked in his favor, it was ludicrous. Easily one of the worst seasons in Survivor history.
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Nov 8, 2017 18:48
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ApplesandOranges posted:There's probably a balance between 'taking such an obvious goat that it'll lose you respect' and 'take someone who's good to earn you brownie points but not good enough that they'll beat you'. Nah, actively choosing to go into the finale with 'competitors' over goats is always dumb and mostly a Big Brother thing.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:21
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Spergatory posted:Is there a statistic for million dollar mistakes? By which I mean, how many people It doesn't quite fit your criteria but Ian in Palau will always be the dumbest thing I've ever seen someone do in regards to throwing away a million dollars
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Nov 8, 2017 20:28
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