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Shadin posted:See above. It's a new version of a game that came out in 1988. I'm sorry that companies make new products based on their existing IPs. Some people don't want just flat reissues of games from the 80s and 90s, I prefer that they actually update them. If they just re-launched old Necromunda, it wouldn't be half as interesting, because we've been playing that game for almost 25 years. We've been playing football since before the Berlin Wall fell too, but nobody has decided that there should be 33% more players on the field or that the ball should be 33% bigger. Just because a game is old doesn't by necessity make it bad, as evidenced by the still-thriving Epic community despite GW not supporting the game in over a decade.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:53
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moths posted:It's really stupidly hard to collect an Epic army, and this is a kind of huge gently caress you to players who have done more to keep it alive than GW over 20 years. Maybe how rare it is makes it all matter less? LIke sorry to all 17 of you globally holding GW to a scale they've decided against. Ilor posted:Nobody is arguing that updated games are better (although given GW's track record with new editions of rules, that's not really a guaranteed certainty either). What people are objecting to is the fact that this invalidates all of the time, effort, and money people have put into this same GW property in the past. Nice strawman bro.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:55
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Titanicus isn't Epic 
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Nov 8, 2017 15:57
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Hamshot posted:Just step back for just a second and look at how much it's worth getting mad over this, seriously. Have just a touch of self awareness about it please. How much time/money have you sunk into Epic over the years? I'm gonna guess the answer is "none," which is why you're so blasé about it.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:58
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Ilor posted:Nobody is arguing that updated games are better (although given GW's track record with new editions of rules, that's not really a guaranteed certainty either). What people are objecting to is the fact that this invalidates all of the time, effort, and money people have put into this same GW property in the past. Every time the ball in a field sport is changed in some way people freak out.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:58
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Ilor posted:Hahaha, nice troll. but, gently caress, that's easy for me - I don't even play this stupid game. But I totally get why people are salty about it, and it's completely justified. That makes me as qualified to comment on it as you just admitted to? "You asked me to calm down, lol nice troll!"
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Nov 8, 2017 15:59
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moths posted:It's really stupidly hard to collect an Epic army, and this is a kind of huge gently caress you to players who have done more to keep it alive than GW over 20 years. Ilor posted:Nobody is arguing that updated games are better (although given GW's track record with new editions of rules, that's not really a guaranteed certainty either). What people are objecting to is the fact that this invalidates all of the time, effort, and money people have put into this same GW property in the past. How does them continuing to not support a line they dropped suddenly invalidate the armies that people are still playing and enjoying despite it not being supported? That's like saying you had to stop playing AD&D2E (which people also invested countless time and money into) when 3e launched. And then their game was "invalidated" much sooner, with Adeptus Titanicus we're talking about almost two decades. Also, this is not Epic, it's a new game inspired by the original Adeptus Titanicus that came out in 1988, but it is not the game you're complaining about them insulting the honor of. Also, don't tell anyone , but you could still use your old Epic titans in the new AD because the scale is close enough to not even really matter, as long as you and your opponent agree.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:01
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Hamshot posted:Maybe how rare it is makes it all matter less? LIke sorry to all 17 of you globally holding GW to a scale they've decided against. I guess telling the entire target customer base to get hosed is a good way to launch a product now.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:01
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moths posted:I guess telling the entire target customer base to get hosed is a good way to launch a product now. Yeah, a whole customer base of 17 people upset to get fuuuuuuuucked by this change of a whole massive 2MM wowo.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:03
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2mm is a 33% increase at 6mm, I hope this helps your understanding.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:04
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moths posted:I guess telling the entire target customer base to get hosed is a good way to launch a product now. Thankfully this isn't Epic, so people that still play Epic aren't necessarily the ones that the new game inspired by AT-1988 is solely marketed towards and they probably hope that the new game will sell well to a broad base of customers that play it and enjoy it.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:05
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moths posted:2mm is a 33% increase at 6mm, I hope this helps your understanding. You can keep mathing at us like it matters, but it's still only 2mm meaning that if you're really that salty about it, you could use your Epic miniatures in this new and different game.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:06
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moths posted:2mm is a 33% increase at 6mm, I hope this helps your understanding. And 33% is something I don't care about when it's only 2mm? Are you seriously arguing that GW has taken a huge dump in your bowl of cheerios because you'd need to rebuy 8mm tall marines because your 6mm tall marines simply won't fit? Besides, it's only a 25% increase. 6mm to 8mm.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:06
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Did you all know that 2mm is 100% increase from 1mm meaning that anything 2mm is literally loving gigantic to something only 1mm.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:07
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Improve your forums experience put Hamshot on ignore. He adds nothing to any conversation and just trolls the thread.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:08
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Indolent Bastard posted:Improve your forums experience put Hamshot on ignore. He Fixed it for you.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:11
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Shadin posted:2. Primaris/Truescale changes don't mean you have to rebuy your SM army. Nor will it ever. I'm glad they update sculpts, it's not my dream to still be playing with Space Marines from 1993 (though, I would like to point out, you absolutely can do. Your entire army could be made from 1993 metal sculpts and be valid). It's not a drat sculpt update, numarines are distinctly not old marines in fluff, rules and models. They can't ride Rhinos or Land Raiders, your old Tacs can't ride in the Repulsor, and so on. Also, the bits are incompatible outside of shoulder pads and helmets. So it's a big change, in that it's a new army growing on top of the old one. Also, 6 mm -> 8 mm increase is 33%, like you would have your 28mm models suddenly becoming 37mm.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:12
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 My god! The new one is bigger than the old one! Won't someone think of all the people that brought the old one? This is GW making GBS threads on its customers! 
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Nov 8, 2017 16:14
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JcDent posted:It's not a drat sculpt update, numarines are distinctly not old marines in fluff, rules and models. They can't ride Rhinos or Land Raiders, your old Tacs can't ride in the Repulsor, and so on. Also, the bits are incompatible outside of shoulder pads and helmets. So it's a big change, in that it's a new army growing on top of the old one. You still don't have to rebuy your armies no matter what the fluff says. Also, you know drat well that percentages matter more or less depending on the size of the numbers to start with, so knock that poo poo off.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:15
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Shadin posted:You can keep mathing at us like it matters, but it's still only 2mm meaning that if you're really that salty about it, you could use your Epic miniatures in this new and different game. It's more an issue that 6mm is the scale, not the size. It's relatively negligible for 6mm infantry, but it'll look goofy af on tanks, superheavies, titans, etc. Which is fine since is a new game not meant to be mixed with Epic. But it signals that this will be another case of Dreadfleet instead of Man o'War.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:17
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Ilor posted:No, it's not just a board game. It's re-release of an existing miniatures game, one for which GW has already put out (and people have already purchased) huge quantities of stuff. It isn't, but even if it is just a straight rerelease... so what?  I mean, unless you would buy more of this game if it was 6mm you don't matter. Let that sink in. I for one and glad they are doing a cool new game in a different scale from any game I currently own. I am only in my early 30's I am too young to have ever bought any Epic stuff at retail.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:17
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Ilor posted:How often do we think we'll be seeing regular Blood Bowl releases now that Newcromunda is out? One team every quarter is their goal. This year was kind of bad because they realized partway through that it was popular enough for all the teams to be plastic and not just dwarfs, skaven and goblins and they had to hire additional people to accommodate that. The elf team thats coming out before christmas was supposedly going to be resin.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:21
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Shadin posted:You still don't have to rebuy your armies no matter what the fluff says. Well, that's like saying you don't need to buy any Space Marines released after rogue trader and you'll be fine to play WYSIWYG. Eventually, your Tacs and Assault Marines and Termies are gonna get dropped just like GW is now cutting up the legacy Warscrolltomes in AoS. And size differences really matter in 6mm vs. 8mm. Which is also a weird loving scale choice that nobody really uses. It's like starting 17mm scale WWII game/line.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:23
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Wait, are those marines titanicus legal or are you trying to pass off some of those old lovely 20 year old epic marines as titanicus models? Let me just get out my micrometer to see the difference in size!
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Nov 8, 2017 16:25
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Lord_Hambrose posted:It isn't, but even if it is just a straight rerelease... so what? Yeah, this is the thing. Even specialist games stopped selling them four years ago. The last edition was published fourteen years ago. To use a comparison earlier in the thread, if MtG was ended as a product line and no new sets released, then ten years later they stopped selling even the extant cards, then four years after that they released a new version of the game with slightly larger cards, that would seem to be pretty reasonable. You're angry about a lack of continuity. There isn't any continuity. That's because there hasn't been for years. Epic died. They killed it. They're releasing a new game set in the same universe. I doubt they'll even have similar rulesets.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:26
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Unlike some strawmans that haw been made here, I'm salty over new releases being new. Epic was a good ruleset, but it can be improved. Same goes for Mordheim, Gorkamorka, etc. But when the similar-not-same game is released in some weird fuckoff hipster brewery scale, it seems like it's done on the off chance that some nerd will bring his Epic titan instead of buying the miniatures, which, if I recall correctly, will sold separately from the starter which will have rules and terrain, but no miniatures, thus not really counting as a starter (but some people argued about that anyways). E: some matter of good/bad faith also plays into this, and with GW, there's not much of good.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:35
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Getting mad that a game is coming back in a slightly different form (and 33% larger scale  ), rather than remaining dead and gone forever? You guys are loving insufferable.This thread should be one of the happiest places in TG; so so so many Specialist Games are coming back, with cool new sculpts, and a lot of hype. Instead we get a bunch of grognards crying about not being able to have a perfect re-release of a game that is literally older than I am, calling other people trolls and putting them on ignore for disagreeing. Bravo. Such owns. Very posting. Wow. Me? I'm psyched as poo poo for Titanicus, Necromunda Underhive, and the rest, and will happily be giving GW all the money I've been saving by avoiding the majority of 8th Edition.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:44
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Safety Factor posted:Titanicus isn't Epic I am the target audience for this game. Epic wasn't really a thing when I got into 40k back in 2001, but I have always wanted to give it a shot. Additionally, I love titans, but I would never buy a 28mm scale version. They've stated that a typical list will be 6-8 titans and maybe some knights with the knights being roughly equivalent to a 28mm marine in size which is all pretty manageable. The opportunity to play a smaller-scale game set in the 40k universe and centered around titans is 100% my poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:44
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Shadin posted:That's like saying you had to stop playing AD&D2E (which people also invested countless time and money into) when 3e launched. It's one thing if you are releasing an entirely new game using a previously-unexplored part of your IP. But you're not. You're releasing a giant stompy robot game, specifically one using titans, which is something you've already done before. Like three times before, actually (Adeptus Titanicus, Titan Legions, and Epic). And saying, "But this time it's different! Because the... models... will be... bigger!" doesn't fill customers with confidence, and worse it pisses off the customer segment to which you're trying to appeal - people for whom nostalgia is a big motivator. And to the point quoted above, it's cool to release revisions or updates to games. Maybe, once a game has been released and is in the wild, you discover an unanticipated rules interaction problem, or a balance issue, or a "quality of experience" issue (like how 7th Ed 40K became a relentless, unfun slog of re-rolling every single loving thing). You might want to streamline things, or add new features, or maybe you've come up with some clever new mechanic that you think will add something new and interesting to the game. OK, that's cool, and if I agree with you, I'll totally buy into it. But this doesn't really feel like either of those things. Finally, analogy =/= strawman. Please go back and actually read the argumentative fallacies.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:51
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Ilor posted:TSR/WotC is a lovely company too? They've already said multiple times that it's a new game inspired by the original Adeptus Titanicus from 1988. So I'm sorry it doesn't feel like whatever you think it should be, but it's OK for a company to relaunch 30 year old games with new versions. Also, loving lol that releasing new versions of D&D made TSR a lovely company. By that rationale, we should all be playing Little Wars by H.G. Wells.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:56
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Ilor posted:Finally, analogy =/= strawman. Please go back and actually read the argumentative fallacies. I'm sorry to say that a strawman can be an analogy, even though not every analogy is a strawman. After searching Wikipedia, I believe this might be relevant to you for the argumentative fallacies you have committed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi. I've gone back and done some reading, how about you do the same?
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Nov 8, 2017 16:59
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Shadin posted:They've already said multiple times that it's a new game inspired by the original Adeptus Titanicus from 1988. So I'm sorry it doesn't feel like whatever you think it should be, but it's OK for a company to relaunch 30 year old games with new versions. Also, loving lol that releasing new versions of D&D made TSR a lovely company. By that rationale, we should all be playing Little Wars by H.G. Wells. quote:And to the point quoted above, it's cool to release revisions or updates to games. That said, releasing a new round of "Complete <Class>" books a month before announcing an entirely new edition of the game that substantially restructured how the game works was a pretty dick move, I think we can all agree on that. Similarly, look how salty people got about the money sunk into the (quite pricey) End Times books for WHFB when Age of Sigmar made them completely obsolete less than a year later. And if you're excited about an AT release, that's cool. If you never got into AT/TL/Epic back in the day and are looking for a larger scale game (company/battalion level, insofar as that makes sense in 40K), then that's cool too. People liked Epic for a reason, so I get wanting to get in on it. I don't begrudge anyone the joy of getting excited about a new game. But it's disingenuous to say that people who actually did spend loads of time, effort, or money on a remarkably-similar-but-not-exactly-the-same game previously have no cause to be a tad miffed. Maybe a better way to put it would be, "Hey, why are you FW guys loving around and wasting time with re-doing Adeptus Titanicus when there are hordes of people slavering to give you money for an Epic re-release?"
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Nov 8, 2017 17:09
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Ilor posted:But it's disingenuous to say that people who actually did spend loads of time, effort, or money on a remarkably-similar-but-not-exactly-the-same game previously have no cause to be a tad miffed. They really don't when their models are two decades out of date. You really need to stop rehashing the same arguments that have already been shut down, buster. Saying the same thing over and over isn't going to make it stick.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:17
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Ilor posted:Maybe a better way to put it would be, "Hey, why are you FW guys loving around and wasting time with re-doing Adeptus Titanicus when there are hordes of people slavering to give you money for an Epic re-release?" AT is cheaper to develop than epic and fills much of the same niche. Hope this helps.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:17
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Ilor posted:Maybe a better way to put it would be, "Hey, why are you FW guys loving around and wasting time with re-doing Adeptus Titanicus when there are hordes of people slavering to give you money for an Epic re-release?"  They're a small studio and can't design everything at once.Infantry, tanks, other races, etc. will come later if the game proves successful and, yes, they will be in 8mm scale.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:18
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Broken Record Talk posted:This thread should be one of the happiest places in TG; This thread is great. I get news about cool and good new releases AND 2mm rage, all in one place!
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Nov 8, 2017 17:19
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Man o'War fans should be loving grateful for Dreadfleet, which failed proving that MoW was a garbage game for old people that you'll never see again.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:20
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Ilor posted:What part of: Follow your own advice, since I was responding to your statement that releasing new versions of D&D made TSR a lovely company. Ilor posted:That said, releasing a new round of "Complete <Class>" books a month before announcing an entirely new edition of the game that substantially restructured how the game works was a pretty dick move, I think we can all agree on that. Similarly, look how salty people got about the money sunk into the (quite pricey) End Times books for WHFB when Age of Sigmar made them completely obsolete less than a year later. You get offended at me responding to something you said, and then immediately go back into bitching about what you bitched about originally. It wasn't a dick move. Games are not invalidated. People STILL play AD&D2E to this very day, and love it. There are untold fan websites with decades of material for it. Until these games rely on a cloud infrastructure to be played, they won't be invalidated. What could they have realistically added to AD&D2E to keep it going? The amount of content was already huge. Conversely, how long should they be expected to just keep tweaking an old system, ensuring that everything remains 100% backwards compatible and balanced, just so that everything that you've ever purchased from them is never "replaced" by a new product? Broken Record Talk posted:This thread should be one of the happiest places in TG; so so so many Specialist Games are coming back, with cool new sculpts, and a lot of hype. Instead we get a bunch of grognards crying about not being able to have a perfect re-release of a game that is literally older than I am This, so many times.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:23
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I just love to see the same 3-4 Death Thread grogs scream endlessly about a company they supposedly don't care about anymore.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:24
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SteelMentor posted:I just love to see the same 3-4 Death Thread grogs scream endlessly about a company they supposedly don't care about anymore. Nothing like white knighting for a game you don't even play. Ilor posted:I don't even play this stupid game.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:25
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