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Also Saru detected deception in Tyler. We're supposed think it's only of his and Burnham's plan. Not his entire mission on the Discovery.
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Nov 8, 2017 19:05
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cjg posted:Was there anything in the show that implied that any Klingon (much less Voq) was going to infiltrate undercover or is that just a "hey this would be a cool plot point" that people are speculating on? When L'rell told him that he would have to give up everything in order to fulfill his goal. His own self/identity/body would definitely qualify as "everything".
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Nov 8, 2017 19:20
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We are under attack by six Cling On vessels.
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Nov 8, 2017 19:32
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pik_d posted:When L'rell told him that he would have to give up everything in order to fulfill his goal. His own self/identity/body would definitely qualify as "everything". I am viscerally, spergingly angry that they managed to somehow completely telegraph the twist without earning it. A couple weeks/months is not enough time for an awkward homeschooled Klingon dork to learn to successfully pass himself off as a sexy human suaveguy. I forget if it was this or the other thread where someone suggested that his "soul" is sort of chilling out in the Sunken Place and waiting to swap. TBH the whole Vulcan Katra thing is already too spiritually metaphysical for my sci-fis, we don't need Klingons doing the same thing. I don't like it. I don't like the thing that's going to occur in my start trucks. 
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Nov 8, 2017 19:40
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That could be an interesting tack to follow: Klingons relying on a Vulcan soul technique for espionage.
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Nov 8, 2017 19:59
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Taear posted:And that Shazad Latif's original surname was Shazad Iqbal as well as the fact that Shazad was originally cast as Klingon. So actor gets shifted around to a different role and people assume characters are undercover. Got it.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:12
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pik_d posted:When L'rell told him that he would have to give up everything in order to fulfill his goal. His own self/identity/body would definitely qualify as "everything". That could mean soooo many things, though, right?
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Nov 8, 2017 20:13
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cjg posted:That could mean soooo many things, though, right? Of course, but that combined with the face actor name are pretty suggestive.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:15
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cjg posted:That could mean soooo many things, though, right?
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Nov 8, 2017 20:34
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As a casual viewer I probably wouldn't have guessed this twist if I wasn't reading Star Trek forums.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:38
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What the hell is Voq's motivation again? Unite the empire or something? Do we have any indication what he might be hoping to accomplish?
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Nov 8, 2017 20:39
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Drink-Mix Man posted:What the hell is Voq's motivation again? Unite the empire or something? Do we have any indication what he might be hoping to accomplish? They establish him as a sort of religious acolyte of Takuvma (PBUH) who wants to do just that in the name of Kahless, so yeah, that was my read. Literally my read, because it's all lip smacking and glottal stops over subtitles.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:41
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Drink-Mix Man posted:What the hell is Voq's motivation again? Unite the empire or something? Do we have any indication what he might be hoping to accomplish? He’s generally hacked off at Klingon culture for being bigoted about his skin, and additionally personally hacked off at Kol because he hijacked T’kuvma’s revolution to unite the Klingons and disregarded that T’kuvma anointed Voq his successor. So he is presumably out to kill Kol and take his place. e: Kol also stole his ship out from under him in hilarious fashion. So he probably also wants that back. skasion fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 20:44
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It's funny to hear so many americans struggling with subtitles. In my country subtitles are the standard so the guttural orc language is just cool to me because I have no problem "reading"
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Nov 8, 2017 20:47
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I don't have an issue with the subtitles. I do have an issue that the actors can't emote at all in their restrictive makeup and costumes.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:51
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skasion posted:He’s generally hacked off at Klingon culture for being bigoted about his skin, and additionally personally hacked off at Kol because he hijacked T’kuvma’s revolution to unite the Klingons and disregarded that T’kuvma anointed Voq his successor. So he is presumably out to kill Kol and take his place. Oh yeah this nuance is def. part of it. Voq wants Kol to suffer for his mendacity, betrayal, and heresy. A unified empire, but he's a dominionist who wants it unified under Kahless, not some face painted warlord. Voq's female henchman is named B'Rel, right? We know she must do something right since she gets a cool spaceship named after her in another decade or two.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:51
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Oh yeah this nuance is def. part of it. Voq wants Kol to suffer for his mendacity, betrayal, and heresy. A unified empire, but he's a dominionist who wants it unified under Kahless, not some face painted warlord. L’Rell
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Nov 8, 2017 20:55
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:A couple weeks/months is not enough time for an awkward homeschooled Klingon dork to learn to successfully pass himself off as a sexy human suaveguy. This is my problem with it. Maybe by the end of the war he would have learned how to successfully infiltrate Starfleet after years of constant training, but no way could it be done in a couple months. The reveal is coming and it's going to be terrible.
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Nov 8, 2017 21:03
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bull3964 posted:I don't have an issue with the subtitles. Additionally, they take forever to say the simplest things. If this was a real foreign language, I'd assume the subtitles were leaving out some important nuance. I guess there are some people out there who'd actually understand what they're saying, right? Maybe we're really missing something here.  Professor Shark posted:This is my problem with it. Maybe by the end of the war he would have learned how to successfully infiltrate Starfleet after years of constant training, but no way could it be done in a couple months. I figure Voq's entire body and personality has been exchanged with that of a real Starfleet officer. The guy isn't pretending to be human. For all intents and purposes, he actually is Ash Tyler, until L'Rell wakes him up.
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Nov 8, 2017 21:07
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Are they speaking the official Klingon that was developed or just grunting and stuff?
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Nov 8, 2017 21:14
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TraderStav posted:Are they speaking the official Klingon that was developed or just grunting and stuff? According to the guy to invented the language, Discovery’s Klingon is supposedly even more accurate than TNG-era pronunciation. I need to find that interview
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Nov 8, 2017 21:21
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cjg posted:So actor gets shifted around to a different role and people assume characters are undercover. Got it. The actor who plays the klingon isn't at any cast meetings, has no interviews and no other credits on IMDB. When Latif is asked about it he's evasive and a bit weird (see his radio times interview). I dunno, what more proof do you need?
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Nov 8, 2017 21:29
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The only issue I got with Ash Tyler is taht his actor is poo poo
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Nov 8, 2017 21:29
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You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.
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Nov 8, 2017 21:30
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Taear posted:The actor who plays the klingon isn't at any cast meetings, has no interviews and no other credits on IMDB. Like at this point it would be a shocking twist if he wasn’t Voq
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Nov 8, 2017 21:40
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This episode was okay, I still don't like Michael, she's just not very interesting. The planet looked good at least.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:12
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There is a jarring change in tone between Seasons 2 and 3 of Enterprise... but it's still much better than Discovery
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Nov 9, 2017 00:10
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david... posted:I hope this clears things up for you. Do they even have a writers' bible worked up for this stuff? Even a single sentence written down somewhere for these characters' most basic biographical attributes, let alone their core characterization. Once upon a time this franchise had its poo poo together.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:52
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Fartbox posted:It's funny to hear so many americans struggling with subtitles. In my country subtitles are the standard so the guttural orc language is just cool to me because I have no problem "reading" smug AND clueless, yup we got ourselves a European goon alright
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Nov 9, 2017 01:06
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And More posted:Additionally, they take forever to say the simplest things. If this was a real foreign language, I'd assume the subtitles were leaving out some important nuance. I guess there are some people out there who'd actually understand what they're saying, right? Maybe we're really missing something here. No, they're speaking extremely slowly, to the point of pausing to enunciate question particles at the end of sentences. That would be like Japanese speakers waiting a full stop before tacking the ka particle onto their sentence. Or Chinese speakers and the ma particle. Nobody does this.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:08
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On one hand I'd kind of be all for the the excess Klingon design/language choices if it was to make some sort of narrative point about learning to see past superficial cultural differences. Unless there's something I'm missing so far, though, it just kind of all seems to be for the sake of theatricality. Sometimes I think it's kind of cool and appreciate the extra effort, sometimes I see vampirish Klingons manipulating touch screens with big rubber claws and get a bad "Nemesis" vibe.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:31
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What I don't get is why The Captain dude allowed the Klingon lady to live. He loving merc'd everybody in his way... but he was satisfied enough with just burning her face for some reason? But then again if the Captain guy was the Klingon Spy dude, then they would have probably acted like they still had him captive or whatever and then the Klingon lady would just be able to approach the Discovery on her prison ship instead of having to go to the new Klingon boss guy. So yeah idk. edit-- Also it makes sense that the new Security Officer "fell in like" with Michael. When the Voq dude was stranded on that Shenzou ship all he had to keep him company was that personnel file thing with Michael's face and background information emblazoned all over it or whatever. It must just be a super convenient plot thing that the Captain guy allowed the Klingon lady to live. Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 03:53
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skasion posted:L’Rell Because you're worth it.
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Nov 9, 2017 05:16
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Nullsmack posted:Because you're worth it. lol'ed
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Nov 9, 2017 06:28
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Arglebargle III posted:No, they're speaking extremely slowly, to the point of pausing to enunciate question particles at the end of sentences. That would be like Japanese speakers waiting a full stop before tacking the ka particle onto their sentence. Or Chinese speakers and the ma particle. Nobody does this. smug AND clueless, yup we got ourselves an Otaku goon alright Just seeing if that phrase applies to multiple things.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:08
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I am viscerally, spergingly angry that they managed to somehow completely telegraph the twist without earning it. God forbid star trek handle spirituality with anything other than awful stumbling awkwardness reminiscent of someone suffering from asperger's syndrome like everything that came before it.
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Nov 9, 2017 10:20
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basic hitler posted:God forbid star trek handle spirituality with anything other than awful stumbling awkwardness reminiscent of someone suffering from asperger's syndrome like everything that came before it. Put down the code red, i can't make head or tails of that Unrelated: On Joe Rogan this week, he had the real Paul Stamets, Mycologist, talking about the wonderful world of Fungi. Eye opening to say the least. He mentions Star Trek in the last 15 mins, and Hannibal. Potential spoilers.... i sort of zoned out at work because i was leaving. Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 10:23
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I think it's pretty obvious that if Ash is Voq, he's got fake memories and probably isn't aware of who he really is. That doesn't seem too outrageous for Trek tech - there's "The Inner Light", those guys in DS9 that gave O'Brien fake memories of a prison sentence, there were aliens in one Voyager episode that traded in black market memories, there's that TNG episode where aliens wipe the crew's memories and tries to convince them to attack their enemies, NOMAD wiping Uhura's memory on a whim...
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Nov 9, 2017 10:32
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Angry Salami posted:I think it's pretty obvious that if Ash is Voq, he's got fake memories and probably isn't aware of who he really is. That doesn't seem too outrageous for Trek tech - there's "The Inner Light", those guys in DS9 that gave O'Brien fake memories of a prison sentence, there were aliens in one Voyager episode that traded in black market memories, there's that TNG episode where aliens wipe the crew's memories and tries to convince them to attack their enemies, NOMAD wiping Uhura's memory on a whim...
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Nov 9, 2017 14:36
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Also if he's a completely fake identity versus a brain/soul transplant/trojan horse; we have to assume that the Klingons are not good enough at information warfare and Fed culture to plant an entire, plausible biography in the Federation database, but that the Federation is incredibly reckless with background checks to work on their universe-saving Manhattan Project. If you join the US military today and qualify for something as sensitive as like nukes or presidential protection, they will have investigators contact and interview employers, family, and relations for at least the past decade. If they were at least as careful 200 years from now, there's no way to fake that much lived background even if you insert a completely perfect personnel file undetected. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 14:59
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