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BarronsArtGallery posted:Not pretending it's apocryphal. I'm recognizing that they're just much worse in quality than the original trilogy and TFA. Actors phoned in performances. The scripts for all three were atrocious. I'm not even leveling criticism like some nerd who's miffed that what they thought should happen didn't happen. I'm saying that what was released was poorly made and mostly incoherent with some good ideas sprinkled over and not on the same tier as the OT and TFA.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:22
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Nov 9, 2017 01:41
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Martman posted:If you're intentionally not leveling criticism, and instead saying that it's "Just Bad," I think it's simpler if you just leave it at that. "Prequels = Just Bad." Why say any more? You just quoted criticism. Writing was something from a first draft for all three and needed serious treatment. Key actors gave poor performances. Others were just hosed by how their characters were written. Maybe you misread what I said about my type of complaint? I was stating that unlike many fans who have their ideal movie in their head of what it SHOULD have been, I was judging what we were given. It makes very little sense to fault a film for what YOU thought should have happened (which happens a lot around here). I just judge the film that is given to me. As far as "why say more?" Because this is a film discussion forum. The gist of the premise is that you at least attempt to get specific with your complaints.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:50
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So, it's true, you narrow down from Prequels = Just Bad to (Writing and Acting) = Just Bad I do not think that is specific. Things like "this seems like something from a first draft" and "I'm just recognizing that the quality is low" are just ways of adding words and obscuring the underlying point (that you just don't like it). It's not critique. Martman fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 02:33
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Martman posted:So, it's true, you narrow down from Prequels = Just Bad to (Writing and Acting) = Just Bad I mentioned two specific elements of the films that were among the weakest -- acting and script. Endemic to all three movies. We can explore them both, but I kind of get the feeling like you don't even want to hear it because your entire comment comes across as argumentative. RE: the script. The dialogue itself is really awful at times and there are generally well known examples (eg, sand; dialogue between Dooku and Yoda; et al.) so I won't dwell on that. I will mention that there are some good ideas sprinkled throughout but they are often mishandled to the extremes. I will just go through a few that stick out in my mind. The pod race was one of the most well filmed and exciting sequences in the entire trilogy, and it and a few other elements keep TPM aloft / above the other two stories for me. It takes up a significant amount of time in the story. Only problem is that it doesn't do anything with the characters because the story never allowed it. Its entire purpose is to serve as a vehicle to put Anakin in custody of the Jedi and move the plot forward. The race is itself exciting, but instead of showing how Anakin is the child prodigy that he's made out to be with him doing hard work and figuring out how to succeed against all odds, winning the race just comes natural to him with near-zero effort. It was portrayed as a fluke. No time in a simulator. No test runs. He's an auto-mechanic that wings it. That's a weak rear end character. Notice what I'm not saying? I don't hold it against Jake Lloyd at all; he was a child actor that acted like a child should. We're not shown that Anakin is special, we're only told that. What we see happen during the race doesn't actually support that claim. I'm emphasizing the pod race here because it's given a lot of weight in the film, but it happens during the entire movie and trilogy -- "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!" *stumbles rear end backwards into blowing up a mothership like one of the three stooges.* By the end of the first film, we're left with the impression that Qui-gon might be a creepy uncle with his insistence that Anakin be trained. Because he sure doesn't seem like anything other than a lucky pilot. The whole "overcoming an impossible" challenge didn't happen. He's just some lucky kid who Qui-gon might have eventually gone to jail over. Perhaps the best ideas among the entire prequel trilogy were the political plots. Completely wasted potential due to bad writing / storytelling. I actually liked that TPM was set into motion because of The political plot in AOTC was handled better, but it still had the problem of not affecting the characters. It was just Palpatine rising to power and the Jedi being a bunch of incompetent weirdos. The thing that most affected Anakin in that one was his mother's death at the hands of sand people. He reacts by being a complete psycho and is alienated from the audience because of it. This weakens his change from child prodigy to the dark side. Why not write a script with elements of actual tragedy? In great tragedies, the audience can at least sympathize or identify with the fall of a hero. You can at least root for them and be saddened when they hit that point of no return. We're not given a good reason for Anakin to have his views soured on the world / society due to the death of his mother or <insert pet issue to establish actual motivations>. It's just "I killed their loving children Padme... honey... baby.. don't you love me?" Jesus Christ then she marries the dude after he talks about sand and murders loving children. Do I really need to keep going on about this and how the writing is loving atrocious? anticipating "so film needs more politics?! porg"
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Nov 9, 2017 04:14
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BarronsArtGallery posted:Red Tails was actually a good movie with a positive message. Maybe they were just so mad that that movie existed that they decided they had to punish someone for it.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:16
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BarronsArtGallery posted:instead of showing how Anakin is the child prodigy that he's made out to be with him doing hard work and figuring out how to succeed against all odds, winning the race just comes natural to him with near-zero effort. It was portrayed as a fluke. No time in a simulator. No test runs. He's an auto-mechanic that wings it. That's a weak rear end character. Notice what I'm not saying? I don't hold it against Jake Lloyd at all; he was a child actor that acted like a child should. We're not shown that Anakin is special, we're only told that. We're shown that Anakin repeatedly succeeds effectively by accident. He is incredibly lucky. How is that not special? Was Luke able to hit the one in a million shot on the death star because of training, or because he's always been incredibly gifted for no good reason? Anakin's repeated successes are precisely showing how the Force works, just like it makes Jar Jar stumble into helping in the big battle "just because." quote:The queen wants to defend Naboo but just kind of says things and complains. Sorry for repeated edits, but what do you mean about Palpatine's plan in Naboo? How does that remove the reason for him to advance to Chancellor? Martman fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 04:22
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Martman posted:What else do queens do? Sometimes they band together with the planet's native population and then personally lead a task force to capture the leaders behind the subjugation of their people.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:37
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Schwarzwald posted:Sometimes they band together with the planet's native population and then personally lead a task force to capture the leaders behind the subjugation of their people.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:38
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Martman posted:It is impossible for me to read this as anything but you saying "this isn't the movie I thought it was supposed to be." I bring this up only because you were claiming that you're not doing that. This is kind of an obnoxious way to talk to porgs if you're trying to actually have a discussion. quote:We're shown that Anakin repeatedly succeeds effectively by accident. He is incredibly lucky. How is that not special? Was Luke able to hit the one in a million shot on the death star because of training, or because he's always been incredibly gifted for no good reason? Porg to unnamed Rebel porg: "I used to bullseye porgs in my T-16 back home, and they weren't bigger than two meters..." The impression I get is that Porg got plenty of target practice, and the Porg provided extra guidance. In contrast, young Porg has the Force basically take over in order for him to get out of jams. quote:Anakin's repeated successes are precisely showing how the Force works, just like it makes Jar Jar stumble into helping in the big battle "just because." The Porg works in seemingly arbitrary ways, if that's the case. TheMaestroso fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 04:48
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spoiler thread?
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Nov 9, 2017 04:51
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TheMaestroso posted:This is kind of an obnoxious way to talk to someone if you're trying to actually have a discussion. The Force having an arbitrary quality to it is one of the big revelations of the prequel trilogy I think. What are midiporgians if not an acknowledgement that Anakin is powerful for no real reason except dumb genetic luck (or engineering, but whatever)? It's explicitly saying that this power is just straight up in your DNA. Martman fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 04:57
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^^ Oh, sorry - I fixed my post to reflect that.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:58
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Consume porgflesh to grow strong
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Nov 9, 2017 06:05
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Jeb! Repetition posted:By the way there's no point in trying to decide whether the prequels or TFA are worse because the ways they're bad are so different. Maybe even the exact inverse of each other. That's how I view them. Neither of them particularly do anything for me as entertaining films. The prequels feel like there's passion behind them, even if they misstep and botch things. The sequels feel bland and safe but I doubt there'll be anything in them that make for interesting readings like the prequels can.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:11
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Once again Star Wars toys spoil something about the movie. They're baby porgs!
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Nov 9, 2017 10:56
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Huh, so they lay their eggs within the human body.
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Nov 9, 2017 11:05
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"In a hole in the ground there lived a porg. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a porg-hole, and that means comfort" – J.J.R. Abrams, The Starwar
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Nov 9, 2017 11:33
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The MSJ posted:Once again Star Wars toys spoil something about the movie. This is some David lynch poo poo
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Nov 9, 2017 12:10
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Milky Moor posted:That's how I view them. Neither of them particularly do anything for me as entertaining films. The prequels feel like there's passion behind them, even if they misstep and botch things. The sequels feel bland and safe but I doubt there'll be anything in them that make for interesting readings like the prequels can. Not sure I buy the idea that people working on the first SW movie in a decade - something people thought would never happen - wouldn't be passionate as gently caress about it. I think you're misconstruing the things in the prequels that you view as the result of "passion" when they're more likely coming from Lucas' auteur style. For better or for worse. Fake edit: Not to say there wasn't passion in the art department, because of course there was. That's true for just about every big movie.
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Nov 9, 2017 15:00
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Martman posted:It's also kind of obnoxious when people hide criticisms behind "look I'm just recognizing that the quality is objectively low" etc., but hey I don't mind. oh look he just decided to act like I didn't write a really lengthy post on how atrocious the writing was What a loving child.
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Nov 9, 2017 15:12
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Martman posted:It's explicitly saying that this power is just straight up in your DNA. gently caress this would have been so much easier to just have a character say this in Empire instead of showing Luke working his rear end off to get better 
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Nov 9, 2017 15:16
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TheMaestroso posted:Fake edit: Not to say there wasn't passion in the art department, because of course there was. That's true for just about every big movie. TFA was like porgitry in regards to the OT; it rhymed.
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Nov 9, 2017 15:46
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BarronsArtGallery posted:oh look he just decided to act like I didn't write a really lengthy post on how atrocious the writing was You wrote a post describing the basic plot of the films but with a lot of question marks.
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Nov 9, 2017 15:56
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BarronsArtGallery posted:Red Tails was actually a good movie with a positive message. I never saw it, but I found it funny when George Lucas gave an interview about it, and said it was time their story was finally told, or something like that. And I thought, "Um, there's already a movie about them, called "The Tuskegee Airmen". I mean, I know it's only a TV movie, but you might want to ask your Red Tails star Cuba Gooding, Jr. about it...because he was in that one, too. Not saying we can't have another. But that comment made me think he hadn't actually heard of the first movie.
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Nov 9, 2017 17:00
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BarronsArtGallery posted:oh look he just decided to act like I didn't write a really lengthy post on how atrocious the writing was Having to train to make your super powers work better is not some kind of fundamental quality of good writing vs. bad writing. And anyway, Luke has to train to learn how to move stuff with his mind, yes... but in order to actually succeed he basically rejects everything he's taught and relies on Darth Vader being strong enough to save him. When he makes a seemingly suicidal jump away from Vader in ESB, is he not saved by a random act of Force luck? Martman fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 00:02
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Cheesus posted:Yes, they were very passionate about resurrecting and re-hashing rejected Ralph McPorg OT concepts instead of coming up with new ideas. I was talking about the prequels, duder Anyway, in actual news that's not stupid "my movie is better" talk, Rian Johnson is getting his own SW trilogy set somewhere else in the universe with new characters.
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Nov 10, 2017 01:16
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I support more Star Wars movies.
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Nov 10, 2017 01:24
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https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/928756341908430848
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Nov 10, 2017 02:04
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Rian Johnson to helm new trilogy https://io9.gizmodo.com/rian-johnson-is-developing-a-new-trilogy-of-star-wars-m-1820310672 Pro: Rion johnson Con: Yet more of these Star Wars
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Nov 10, 2017 02:34
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sounds cool
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Nov 10, 2017 02:52
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I fully expect by next year Disney will just announce “films” are coming and people will go insane with hype.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:04
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I like this guy.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:11
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My favorite Risk tweet is the one where he said that he respected and feared RLM.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:13
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Rian Johnson seems like a cool guy https://soundcloud.com/thedirectorscut/episode-96-blade-runner-2049-with-denis-villeneuve-and-rian-johnson
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Nov 10, 2017 04:38
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The pessimist in me says he got this trilogy deal by shutting the gently caress up and doing exactly what Disney told him to do.
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Nov 10, 2017 04:58
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Jose Oquendo posted:The pessimist in me says he got this trilogy deal by shutting the gently caress up and doing exactly what Disney told him to do. And because JJ wasn't interested.
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Nov 10, 2017 05:07
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thrawn527 posted:I never saw it, but I found it funny when George Lucas gave an interview about it, and said it was time their story was finally told, or something like that. And I thought, "Um, there's already a movie about them, called "The Tuskegee Airmen". I mean, I know it's only a TV movie, but you might want to ask your Red Tails star Cuba Gooding, Jr. about it...because he was in that one, too. lol actually I was wrong. They watched "Zero Dark Thirty" the night before Notre Dame. They watched "Red Tails" before the 2012 rematch championship against LSU that everyone hated so much. I'd honestly love to hear the story about what made Nick Saban decide to phone up George Lucas and ask for permission to have a private screening of the film. Wasn't released for another half a month. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/10/red-tails-movie-inspires-alabama-lsu-bcs-trailer_n_1195756.html quote:In the aftermath of Alabama’s dominating 21-0 triumph over LSU in the BCS National Championship Game, reporters were hoping to hear Nick Saban expound on his team’s historic performance on defense, the aggressive offensive passing scheme or even his own place in college football history. it's a good thing he went with a movie about the Tuskegee airmen instead of the Tuskegee experiments. Humor aside, I brought up the story because when I finally watched Red Tails a year or two ago I thought it was great and clearly motivated these guys to kick the poo poo out of LSU. That's what a good movie should do -- make you identify with the characters and provide an escape and/or reflect on life issues, big or little. Lucas clearly has a gift for storytelling. Those things just didn't happen with the prequels, and I wish he'd continue with projects outside of Star Wars or Indy instead of locking himself away in a cinema Howard Hughes-style and making experimental films for "no one else to see."
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Nov 10, 2017 05:24
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RIan is cool https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/562725239982161921
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Nov 10, 2017 05:34
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The right answer is "laser sword"
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Nov 10, 2017 06:13
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