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Gammatron 64 posted:A lot of people will be like "yeah, duh", but I was just thinking how Gundam is basically just Star Wars. I would say it's "Star Wars but with giant mecha", except Star Wars actually has giant mecha already. Then I would say "well, it's anime Star Wars", but then again, Star Wars is practically just a live action anime. There's at least one English interview with Tomino floating around where he's asked about the influence of Star Wars and admits that he had seen it prior to production and was annoyed because it had done so many things he wanted to do if I recall. He was definitely influenced by Star Wars, but a lot of the shared elements are fairly elemental to sci-fi and space opera as a whole: especially the mystical force stuff which was especially popular all the way up to the 80s because it was a kind of pseudo-science. Guy Goodbody posted:Another difference worth noting is that there has been good Gundam stuff made after 1983. The TIE Fighter and X-Wing games are the main reason I'm even in to Star Wars, finding the original films kind of tiresome on the whole. I fell asleep the first time I watched them through properly as a teen. There've been a couple of other good games really. The Podracer game for the PC, Knights of the Old Republic, the Jedi Knight games and some decent books like the Wraith Squadron stuff. The Clone Wars animation is probably the highlight of visual Star Wars stuff to me too. It ticks a lot of boxes for me that other people might not care for much though so I'm aware not everyone will agree. Still I love that it's an anthology show about a galactic war and the episode arcs flittering back and forth not just between different members of the cast and different fronts of the war, but in the early seasons between different periods of the war really helps to rub in the whole "fog of war" thing and I'm sad it became a lot more linear over time. Mimir posted:I know I'm being super reductionist but the biggest difference between Tomino and Lucas as creators is that Lucas loving loves making everything toyetic, while Tomino despises that he has to lower himself to making a toy commercial. I'd say that it's more that Lucas seems to love world-building and just putting in everything and anything that takes his fancy regardless of consistency while Tomino seems to lean more toward character building and wanting to tell a story first and foremost. That's reductionist too, since Lucas does seem to enjoy character arcs, especially melodramatic ones while Tomino definitely likes world building too, but I think they each display a clear preference regardless. A lot of people forget that during the years between the original films, especially between "A New Hope" and "Empire Strikes Back" a large part of the public discussion on Star Wars was about who Leia would end up with. That soap opera love triangle was massive social speculation and drove a lot of ticket sales for the original films. Guy Goodbody posted:I don't think that's fair to Lucas. Or the people who work with Tomino. People say, oh, Empire Strikes Back, that was all Kershner and Kasdan, but then ignore that neither of those dudes did anything very impressive when they weren't working with Lucas. Similarly, Tomino is a genius, but an anime takes a ton of work. Look at the list of Gundam episodes, Tomino isn't the credited writer of a single episode. I think Tomino wrote some episodes of the original (as well as other shows) under pseudonyms, just like he wrote some songs using pseudonyms over the years if I recall. He's bent his hand to many throughout his shows, and did some of the mechanical design for 0079 too if I recall. That aside, one thing I think about Lucas is that he's probably the best director of the original trilogy and what cements it to me is that I can picture the opening 5 or 10 minutes of "A New Hope" almost shot for shot despite not being a huge fan of the film and don't think that's nearly as true as either of the sequels. And that some of the concepts he introduced like the opening scrawl have become synonymous with Star Wars over the years. A lot of the films open with long shots of star ships to ape the opening shot of "A New Hope" too. He was definitely elevated by others, not just Kirschner and Kasdan who tend to be the names people recall, but his first wife in editing as well for instance, but I think he was a talented director. The biggest problem with the sequel trilogy as far as I can see is that he's a good ideas man and plotter, but he needs someone to doctor his scripts and the original trilogy always had at least two or three people contributing and cleaning the script while he had no-one help with the sequels despite admitting himself that he's not a great script writer and finds it soul sucking work.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:13
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I kind of feel like a few Gundam shows tell a story kind of similar to the prequels, but just executed a little better. I totally get what Lucas was going for, and he does have some really neat ideas, but the movies just... suck in so many ways. I think people who defend the prequels are more into the ideas behind them than the movies themselves. Lucas wanted to tell a story similar to how the Roman Republic became the Empire and how democracies turn into insane dictatorships like 1930's Germany. But it's kind of like he knew these things happened, but didn't really understand why they did. Palpatine is like "hey, I'm the Emperor now. Also I just genocided all the Jedi." and the Senate is just like "cool, ok." Gundam, particularly the Origin and Unicorn, goes into why people are driven into dangerous totalitarian ideologies like fascism and Stalinism by giving you insight into the thought process of the Zeon. In Star Wars, the Sith openly admit they're mustache twirling bad guys but the Zeon believe what they do is justified, even though in reality it's extremely evil. Real life bad guys almost always believe they're doing the right thing. The Zeon actually had a pretty legitimate grievance with the Federation. They were constantly shat upon and treated as second class citizens by the earth's elite. The Federation would handle protests by opening fire into the crowds. But what the Zeon did in retaliation was monstrous beyond belief by gassing thousands of innocent people, then dropping that colony on earth and killing half of the human population. History shows that misery and desperation combined with self-righteousness and firm conviction is a really, really, really dangerous combination. Notice how the Zeon are fervent in their belief, while the heroes in Gundam are full of doubt. Characters like Amuro question their own beliefs. They'll stop and go "wait, am I really doing the right thing? Isn't this a little hosed up?" Guys like Amuro and Bright realize just how lovely their own faction (the Federation) is. They want to make things better, but reject the brutal and malicious methods of the Zeon.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:32
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genuine question, what is appealing about The Clone Wars outside of the Yoda/Dooku fight
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Nov 8, 2017 22:35
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Tae posted:genuine question, what is appealing about The Clone Wars outside of the Yoda/Dooku fight Further question: what is appealing about the Yoda/Dooku fight? I wouldn't even mind another Jedi of Yoda's stature using a light saber to fight, but Yoda himself always felt like he was above and beyond such petty methods and would instead rely on the Force itself as a weapon. He's like the Emperor in the original films, he just doesn't feel like someone who'd rely on a light saber and they both feel like they've gained enough mastery of the Force as a concept and tool to be more than the knights they tutor.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:40
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Tae posted:genuine question, what is appealing about The Clone Wars outside of the Yoda/Dooku fight Attack of the Clones is the bad movie with the fight, Clone Wars is the 2003 animated series that rules and The Clone Wars is a mediocre children's CGI cartoon that finished a bit ago and has a sequel called Rebels.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:40
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tsob posted:There's at least one English interview with Tomino floating around where he's asked about the influence of Star Wars and admits that he had seen it prior to production and was annoyed because it had done so many things he wanted to do if I recall. He was definitely influenced by Star Wars, but a lot of the shared elements are fairly elemental to sci-fi and space opera as a whole: especially the mystical force stuff which was especially popular all the way up to the 80s because it was a kind of pseudo-science. Yeah, to be fair, Star Wars was literally just a combination of a bunch of things George Lucas liked and just slapped together into one movie. It was inspired by old 1930's Flash Gordon serials, Akira Kurosawa's samurai films, Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces, WWII movies, Star Trek, westerns, and a ton of other stuff. George Lucas's thought process for most of Star Wars, particularly the prequels, is "hey, here's a thing I like. I'll put that in Star Wars because it would be cool." That's why we have like a 15 minute podrace sequence and Obi-Wan going to a 1950's diner for some reason. I think both Lucas and Tomino are lofty idea men. They come up with really cool concepts, but often times their execution falls flat. With Lucas, it's the prequels. With Tomino, it's ZZ, Victory and G-Reco. Although to be fair to Tomino, Victory sucking is not really his fault at all. Tae posted:genuine question, what is appealing about The Clone Wars outside of the Yoda/Dooku fight The Clone Wars cartoon has a few good episodes. It also has some pretty bad episodes. The good episodes of Clone Wars is sort of like glimpsing into an alternate universe where the prequels didn't suck.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:46
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Yeah by clone Wars, I meant the "I hate sand" 2nd movie.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:48
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Gammatron 64 posted:I kind of feel like a few Gundam shows tell a story kind of similar to the prequels, but just executed a little better. I totally get what Lucas was going for, and he does have some really neat ideas, but the movies just... suck in so many ways. I think people who defend the prequels are more into the ideas behind them than the movies themselves. I agree with most of what you're saying. Hell, I even acknowledge a lot of my affection for the Prequels, at least Revenge of the Sith, is based on what it was trying to do more than what it did. But you can't tell me Gihren Zabi is any less of a blatantly evil human being than Palpatine. The only thing Gihren Zabi believed in was the advancement of Gihren Zabi over billions or trillions of corpses.He had no real ideology and in fact I think that's largely what Zeon is constantly portrayed as. The rank-and-file have causes or ideals they believe in but they are just stepping stones for self-centered sociopaths who care for nothing. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 22:49
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The Zabis are considerably better written than prequel Palpatine
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Nov 8, 2017 22:55
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Improbable Lobster posted:The Zabis are considerably better written than prequel Palpatine Except Ghiren who is an even lazier character imo
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Nov 8, 2017 22:57
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Gihren is literally compared to Hitler. They ain't subtle about it.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:58
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Dozle is kind of lazily written in the original too. He's a decent guy, but that's kind of it and his character largely ignores the corruption and sheer shittiness of his family and their actions, never addressing in the original what his view or part in the colony drop and other atrocities was.
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Nov 8, 2017 23:00
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Someone made a post earlier that I thought was pretty accurate in terms of which historical/fictional character Tomino probably had in mind (or otherwise referenced obviously.)
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Nov 8, 2017 23:02
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Tae posted:Yeah by clone Wars, I meant the "I hate sand" 2nd movie. Yeah, no, those movies are loving trash. Especially that one. That one is the worst. I think people like Clone Wars the cartoon because they wanted the prequels to be good and on occasion it's good and lets people have a small glimpse of what could have been. NikkolasKing posted:I agree with most of what you're saying. Hell, I even acknowledge a lot of my affection for the Prequels, at least Revenge of the Sith, is based on what it was trying to do more than what it did. But you can't tell me Gihren Zabi is any less of a blatantly evil human being than Palpatine. The only thing Gihren Zabi believed in was the advancement of Gihren Zabi over billions or trillions of corpses.He had no real ideology and in fact I think that's largely what Zeon is constantly portrayed as. The rank-and-file have causes or ideals they believe in but they are just stepping stones for self-centered sociopaths who care for nothing. No, that's pretty much what I meant. When I said "the Zeon", I was referring to the people of Side 3 as a whole and not really the Zabi family. Gihren Zabi is really, really blatantly evil. I mean, his dad calls him Hitler and he actually takes it as a compliment. But the really, really scary thing about madmen like Gihren Zabi and Adolf Hitler is how easy it is for regular, everyday people to rally behind them if they're desperate or angry enough. I'm sure most of us would say "if I was in Germany in the 1930s, I wouldn't have followed Hitler." Unfortunately that's likely untrue, but acknowledging that is very unsettling because it's acknowledging that we're all capable of unspeakable evil. The thing is, you kind of have to realize that anyone is capable of anything. If you go through life thinking "nah, I could never do something that bad", then you might wind up as the guy working the lever on gas chamber who has no idea what he's doing is really loving bad. The Origin literally spells this out because right before Dozle gasses thousands of people, he's like "don't use the word 'murder', because then it sounds like we're doing something bad."
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Nov 8, 2017 23:08
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NikkolasKing posted:I agree with most of what you're saying. Hell, I even acknowledge a lot of my affection for the Prequels, at least Revenge of the Sith, is based on what it was trying to do more than what it did. But you can't tell me Gihren Zabi is any less of a blatantly evil human being than Palpatine. The only thing Gihren Zabi believed in was the advancement of Gihren Zabi over billions or trillions of corpses.He had no real ideology and in fact I think that's largely what Zeon is constantly portrayed as. The rank-and-file have causes or ideals they believe in but they are just stepping stones for self-centered sociopaths who care for nothing. The important difference between Gihren and Palpatine isn't their personalities, it's that Gihren is a very realistic Hitler pastiche and Palpatine is a cackling evil wizard whose plans only work because literally everyone else in the universe is super dumb.
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Nov 8, 2017 23:11
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I found Degwin to be the most interesting of the Zabi family since, at least in the origin, he seemed content to rule his couple of sides . However, Gihren and Kyscilla's constant drive for more power fucks everything up and he's now stuck along for the ride . At the end he just wants this poo poo to end and have some sort of armistice. It's also humanizing how Garma's death complety breaks him. I love his reaction in the original series. A ton of the zeon's look screams old school super robot baddy. Hell Zeon's capital building looks evil as poo poo. Degwin gets told about Garma's death. In an usual kiddy super robot show it'd have the villain rage or mock his child for being weak and getting killed. However the narrator says something along the line of " Degwin said nothing and dropped his cane. There were no words to express his loss." That's such a great moment to me. Degwin just becomes this sad old man and not this cartoonish super villain. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 23:32
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Now to be fair to Star Wars, they did on very rare occasions portray rank and file Imperials are not being completely pure mustache twirling evil. In the books. Very seldomly. It took Star Wars 7 whole movies and almost 40 years before they had a stormtrooper go "wait a second, are we the baddies?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
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Nov 9, 2017 00:09
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Monaghan posted:I found Degwin to be the most interesting of the Zabi family since, at least in the origin, he seemed content to rule his couple of sides . However, Gihren and Kyscilla's constant drive for more power fucks everything up and he's now stuck along for the ride . At the end he just wants this poo poo to end and have some sort of armistice. I agree with all of this. That moment you mention is one of the best in the entire franchise for me. Honestly, Degwin is one of the most sympathetic character in all of the original anime. Just a tired old man who wants to stop losing his children.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:13
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Gammatron 64 posted:Now to be fair to Star Wars, they did on very rare occasions portray rank and file Imperials are not being completely pure mustache twirling evil. In the books. Very seldomly. Did you miss every single officer minus Ozzel in Empire? Those poor guys were scared for their lives rather than being mustache twirling evil.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:18
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Arcsquad12 posted:Did you miss every single officer minus Ozzel in Empire? Those poor guys were scared for their lives rather than being mustache twirling evil. True. I'm just thinking of the EU where Imperial Officers were always depicted as Machiavellian. There was a cut scene in Return of the Jedi where the Emperor ordered Moff Jerjerrod to blow up Endor and he was like "wait, but our own men are on the moon!" and the Emperor was like "do it anyway". But yeah nobody saw that until it was on a deleted scenes section on a dvd 30 years later.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:26
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PMush Perfect posted:Personally, I just want a Gundam Virtual On game. This already exists: The Gundam Versus series of games.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:26
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Gammatron 64 posted:Now to be fair to Star Wars, they did on very rare occasions portray rank and file Imperials are not being completely pure mustache twirling evil. In the books. Very seldomly. Sure, but how long did it take for a Zeon soldier to reflect on the actions of their side? Did any of them do it until recently? Some of them defected, but Aina defected for love and because war was kind of poo poo, not because her side in particular was awful, Cima defected for no reason in the OVA and even in fluff it seems to be because she was kicked out and not because she hated being made a martyr for the colony gassing/drop. The original show has a few honorable enemies like Ramba Ral or the guys putting bombs on the Gundam, but those guys seem to be conscipted and Ramba never thinks about why he's part of Zeon; he just is. I'm not sure anyone really explored Zeon ideology or why people were okay with it in animation until Unicorn really. NikkolasKing posted:Honestly, Degwin is one of the most sympathetic character in all of the original anime. Just a tired old man who wants to stop losing his children. A tired old man who wants to stop losing his children and oversaw and was at least passively okay with the genocide of millions. He's sympathetic, but it's important to contextualize him and recognize that he was a horrible poo poo for at least some of his life and it was only in seeing the effects of his actions up close that he began to change.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:28
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The prequels are better both in craft and entertainment value than most gundam series
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Nov 9, 2017 00:28
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Gammatron 64 posted:True. I'm just thinking of the EU where Imperial Officers were always depicted as Machiavellian. The EU is loving trash
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Nov 9, 2017 00:29
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tsob posted:Sure, but how long did it take for a Zeon soldier to reflect on the actions of their side? Did any of them do it until recently? Some of them defected, but Aina defected for love and because war was kind of poo poo, not because her side in particular was awful, Cima defected for no reason in the OVA and even in fluff it seems to be because she was kicked out and not because she hated being made a martyr for the colony gassing/drop. The original show has a few honorable enemies like Ramba Ral or the guys putting bombs on the Gundam, but those guys seem to be conscipted and Ramba never thinks about why he's part of Zeon; he just is. I'm not sure anyone really explored Zeon ideology or why people were okay with it in animation until Unicorn really. Ok that's true. They didn't really dig into Zeon ideology until Unicorn and the Origin which were made decades after the fact. And nobody questioned it, at least on the Zeon side. Maybe the Empire and the Zeon are not the best comparison because the Empire didn't really have much of an ideology "grrrr we're in charge and if you don't like it we'll blow your planet up." Improbable Lobster posted:The EU is loving trash Well, yeah. If we take the EU into account then Star Wars is probably the dumbest popular sci-fi franchise out there. Star Trek is probably the least dumb, and even then, there's a lot of movies and episodes that are super loving dumb. Gundam is probably in the middle of the dumb scale. Doctor Who and Star Wars are on the bottom. fake edit: actually nevermind, I like Transformers, that is a franchise so stupid it makes all of those look like Einstein
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Nov 9, 2017 00:37
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Gammatron 64 posted:Well, yeah. If we take the EU into account then Star Wars is probably the dumbest popular sci-fi franchise out there. and floating serenely above them all, Lexx.
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Nov 9, 2017 00:41
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Gammatron 64 posted:Maybe the Empire and the Zeon are not the best comparison because the Empire didn't really have much of an ideology "grrrr we're in charge and if you don't like it we'll blow your planet up." Zeon don't have much of an ideology in 0079 either that I recall. A lot of the "lack of representation and Contolism" stuff came from the books or were added in in subsequent iterations over the years. Even the newtype stuff isn't really explored much as a split in what each side thinks, only that they exist. Gammatron 64 posted:Well, yeah. If we take the EU into account then Star Wars is probably the dumbest popular sci-fi franchise out there. Star Trek has it's own EU, which, I haven't explored it, but I know there's crossover comics with the X-Men so it's bound to have some really stupid poo poo too. Large franchises in general just have a lot of silly poo poo because so much is made that it's bound to happen. Not that I'm one to talk, since honestly, I prefer the Star Wars EU, stupid poo poo and all to the films; even the originals. The films are okay, but some of the games, comics and books are good and even if there's a lot of really stupid ones I still like those few.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:00
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tsob posted:A tired old man who wants to stop losing his children and oversaw and was at least passively okay with the genocide of millions. He's sympathetic, but it's important to contextualize him and recognize that he was a horrible poo poo for at least some of his life and it was only in seeing the effects of his actions up close that he began to change. Yeah but do we see any of that in the original anime? From the moment he's introduced he's just that tired old man and he dies trying to stop the war. Classic case of show don't tell. Gihren is the guy who is responsible for all the most horrible poo poo. This has come up a few times in the past and people have said Degwin bears some culpability for Operation British, maybe having just sort of given it the okay even though it was Gihren's idea. But I'm not sure where this idea comes from. Based just on the original anime, he seemed like a figurehead while all the real power rested with Gihren. We certainly see nothing of how he turned the Republic of Zeon into the Principality with himself as dictator. And of course who knows if he's the one who actually killed Deikun. As for Zeonic ideology, always seemed like simple war of independence. Nationalism is its own ideology. The place I live is the best and no one has the right to tell us what to do except people who live here. Then the Newtypism was exploited on top of that in later additions to the OYW or its aftermaths. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 01:20
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tsob posted:Zeon don't have much of an ideology in 0079 either that I recall. A lot of the "lack of representation and Contolism" stuff came from the books or were added in in subsequent iterations over the years. Even the newtype stuff isn't really explored much as a split in what each side thinks, only that they exist. Literally none of the Star Wars EU is any good
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Nov 9, 2017 01:20
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tsob posted:A tired old man who wants to stop losing his children and oversaw and was at least passively okay with the genocide of millions. He's sympathetic, but it's important to contextualize him and recognize that he was a horrible poo poo for at least some of his life and it was only in seeing the effects of his actions up close that he began to change. That was all Girhen from what I know. Degwin had very little involvement in most things because he was a sick old man. Degwin did not even want to go to war in the first place I believe. Hell I don't believe it's ever stated for sure that Degwin ever killed Zeon Zum Deikun.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:27
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MonsterEnvy posted:That was all Girhen from what I know. Degwin had very little involvement in most things because he was a sick old man. Degwin did not even want to go to war in the first place I believe. The official cause of Zeon's death has never been stated. In various non-canon materials it has been Degwin, Ghiren, the Federation or none of the above.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:32
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NikkolasKing posted:Yeah but do we see any of that in the original anime? From the moment he's introduced he's just that tired old man and he dies trying to stop the war. Classic case of show don't tell. Gihren is the guy who is responsible for all the most horrible poo poo. We don't need to see it, because we're told those things happened and even if he was only a figurehead he was still willing to stand by and let his son do those horrible things without stopping him or going against him in any fashion. Which is it's own kind of evil. MonsterEnvy posted:Hell I don't believe it's ever stated for sure that Degwin ever killed Zeon Zum Deikun. Degwin was supposed to reveal he was the one who did it to Sayla while dying in the original outline if I recall, but because the show was cancelled and things had to be cut short it never made it in to the show. Which leaves the question of whether he did or not hanging for all intents and purposes, but he was supposed to have at least.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:33
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tsob posted:We don't need to see it, because we're told those things happened and even if he was only a figurehead he was still willing to stand by and let his son do those horrible things without stopping him or going against him in any fashion. Which is it's own kind of evil. Yeah his biggest problem is that he is too passive and has no real ability to oppose his children. tsob posted:Degwin was supposed to reveal he was the one who did it to Sayla while dying in the original outline if I recall, but because the show was cancelled and things had to be cut short it never made it in to the show. Which leaves the question of whether he did or not hanging for all intents and purposes, but he was supposed to have at least. Not even dying. Apparently the Peace Meeting was intended to be on the White Base and when Degwin went he was going he would recognizes Sayla and ask for forgiveness for her fathers death. But as all of that was thrown out lots of things changed. Though I also learn that Degwin survives in some alternate materials. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 01:36
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tsob posted:Star Trek has it's own EU, which, I haven't explored it, but I know there's crossover comics with the X-Men so it's bound to have some really stupid poo poo too. 
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Nov 9, 2017 01:38
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah his biggest problem is that he is too passive and has no really ability to oppose his children. Which is fine. That passivity regarding his family is part of what makes him an interesting character, especially when contrasted to the ambition and action he must have shown in earlier life to be the head of Zeon in the first place, but it's still worth noting is my point.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:38
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Gammatron 64 posted:Ok that's true. They didn't really dig into Zeon ideology until Unicorn and the Origin which were made decades after the fact. And nobody questioned it, at least on the Zeon side. Star Wars EU at least theoretically had some editorial control by the people in overall charge of the series. Not to say there isn't plenty of total garbage, but to try and claim it's worse than Star Trek EU is silly. As terrible as stuff like Darksaber, or the Jedi Academy trilogy, or anything by Traviss, or a number of other books, is, it's got absolutely nothing on the horrid garbage floating around under the Star Trek label. Doctor Who EU is down there with Star Trek though, so that's about right.
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Nov 9, 2017 02:30
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Yeah, Degwin is pretty interesting. I choose to believe that he really did kill Zeon Daikun because he was power hungry. But as he grew old, he saw the enormous death toll, the deaths of two of his sons and saw just how much of an insane monster his son Gihren was and truly began to regret his actions. Degwin begging Sayla for forgiveness sounds like it would have been a good character moment. It also goes into an age old moral dilemma. Do you forgive the person who wronged you and accept their apology? Or do you hold on to your hatred, take revenge and continue the cycle of violence? Sayla choosing to forgive her father's murderer would be an interesting contrast to her brother who is hellbent on revenge. Lord Koth posted:Star Wars EU at least theoretically had some editorial control by the people in overall charge of the series. Not to say there isn't plenty of total garbage, but to try and claim it's worse than Star Trek EU is silly. As terrible as stuff like Darksaber, or the Jedi Academy trilogy, or anything by Traviss, or a number of other books, is, it's got absolutely nothing on the horrid garbage floating around under the Star Trek label. I wasn't really thinking about the Star Trek EU. I often forget it even exists. It was never treated as canon and was always licensed fanfiction. Star Wars attempted to maintain some amount of continuity. But editorial control? Yeah, could have fooled me. I was just thinking Star Trek: the shows. It has a lot of infamous low points like "Threshold", "Code of Honor" and "Spock's Brain."
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Nov 9, 2017 05:02
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, Degwin is pretty interesting. I choose to believe that he really did kill Zeon Daikun because he was power hungry. But as he grew old, he saw the enormous death toll, the deaths of two of his sons and saw just how much of an insane monster his son Gihren was and truly began to regret his actions. Degwin begging Sayla for forgiveness sounds like it would have been a good character moment. I haven't seen Spock's Brain, so can't comment on that one, but you're probably right that the other two somehow manage to be worse than even the worst SW books. Threshold is just... I don't even know what to say, and the writer behind Code of Honor really needed to stop writing those kinds of episodes, because she somehow managed to always be horribly racist in them, along with being terrible even at the supposed message. She wrote another along those lines for SG1, except with asians instead of blacks. It was just as bad.
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Nov 9, 2017 05:22
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Improbable Lobster posted:Literally none of the Star Wars EU is any good I will defend Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron to the death, don't make me fight you The X-Wing books were probably the best thing to come out of the entire EU. MechaX fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 13:35
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Improbable Lobster posted:Literally none of the Star Wars EU is any good This.
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Nov 9, 2017 13:49
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