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I still haven't seen one single liberal policy worth supporting that the left wasn't also pushing or had a better alternative that helps more people and is more robust. The "ideology" is politically and intellectually bankrupt.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:33
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Is there a thread for this Liberals vs. Leftists Grudgeamania 2k17 that isn’t USPol?
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Nov 9, 2017 18:35
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Talmonis posted:General elections against fascist strongmen with delusions of grandeur are not the ideal moment to boycott your own candidate. That this fact eludes you is bewildering. The Democratic party is full of "A Certain Family's" centrist grifters, and they hold too much power. The Liberals in the party want the Slavery supporters and the racists stripped of power, while still beholden to the party's overall goals, so they don't just join the Republicans. We got screwed this year by the party heads. Liberals did. Not a bunch of outside agitators with no stake, tut-tutting our impurity. We tried to stop Trump, and had to support a lesser evil to do it. We failed because you didn't help, then turned around and blamed those of us who actually tried to get a different candidate in the first place using the only available method of doing so. This isn't very coherent, but the thing I can glean from it is that you don't think Leftists are democrats, and that's a false premise. I'm a leftist and also a democrat. There are lots of honest to god socialists who are democrats because it's the only viable party to be. We aren't "a bunch of outside agitators with no stake." Your assumptions make your reasoning faulty from the get-go, and that's why you keep getting in these fights about it. Also if someone is a racist grifter then joining the republicans is actually what they should do. It's literally the party for racist grifters.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:35
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Talmonis posted:I don't take "pride" in the stances I hold or the people I support welcome to d&d, ladies and gentlemen
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Nov 9, 2017 18:36
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WampaLord posted:So are you mad at like the 2 posters here who said they didn't vote for Hillary? Or are you mad at the tiny fraction of Bernie voters who didn't vote for Clinton, despite that being a far less number than 2008 Hillary voters who didn't vote for Obama? Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary in the general in anything close to a swing state is an idiot.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:37
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teen witch posted:Is there a thread for this Liberals vs. Leftists Grudgeamania 2k17 that isn’t USPol? Anything of substance in US politics gets its own thread/the Republicans control everything thus the Trump thread acts as the real USPol so this is all that's left to "discuss".
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Nov 9, 2017 18:37
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teen witch posted:Is there a thread for this Liberals vs. Leftists Grudgeamania 2k17 that isn’t USPol? No, and sadly liberals can not help but poo poo up every thread they encounter so I doubt any thread will ever be free of their pedantry
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Nov 9, 2017 18:37
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Lightning Knight posted:As much as I want them to take no prisoners, every government shutdown that has happened in recent memory has blown up in the Republicans’ faces. They have a point. Yep. And it would be far worse, as Democrats are always held to a much higher standard by swing voters. The last election is a perfect example that Republicans can say or do just about anything, but Democrats have to be near perfect on optics to get the same result. InnercityGriot posted:
Centrists are not Liberals, just as Progressives are not Communists. Centrists currently control the party. Pragmatism is in context of general elections. A centrist is better than a conservative. Policy is not the same as messaging. I want more left leaning policy, but don't have the means to pass it. The party being a coalition makes compromise (with centrists) necessary, or, once again, the measure will fail without unity, which results in half-measures and unexciting changes, but more importantly lays the groundwork for improvement. Messaging though, needs to be as unthreatening and positive as possible, so you don't scare off the independants and moderates. If you do, it fails. The Public always hold Democrats to higher standards than Republicans when it comes to fulfilling promises and maintaining decorum.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:37
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teen witch posted:Is there a thread for this Liberals vs. Leftists Grudgeamania 2k17 that isn’t USPol? There used to be, it is now rip as far as I know.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:38
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mcmagic posted:Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary in the general in anything close to a swing state is an idiot. Of course, but yelling at them solves literally nothing. Focusing on individual votes is loving pointless.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:38
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InnercityGriot posted:Basically, I just don't understand what exactly Liberals are so defensive and protective of aside from losing their place of power in the party or reflexive defense of the status quo. The strategies seem ineffective and on policy I think most liberals in this thread would agree, policy is just better the more socialist it is. For the leadership it's this. For the people who vote for them, it's the reflexive defense of the status quo. There, we've solved the problem. Right, guys? 
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Nov 9, 2017 18:38
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Chomskyan posted:No, and sadly liberals can not help but poo poo up every thread they encounter so I doubt any thread will ever be free of their pedantry Leftism is the superior ideology, but lmao if you think liberalism has anything close to a monopoly in the bad posting.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:39
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Lightning Knight posted:There used to be, it is now rip as far as I know. The thunderdome still exists.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:40
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Lightning Knight posted:Leftism is the superior ideology, but lmao if you think liberalism has anything close to a monopoly in the bad posting. it does wrt the worst posting though  still remember when liberals couldn't help but wish for more torture for chelsea manning
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Nov 9, 2017 18:41
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WampaLord posted:Of course, but yelling at them solves literally nothing. It's not for them. It's for whoever is listening to or observing your conversation.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:41
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Talmonis posted:Yep. And it would be far worse, as Democrats are always held to a much higher standard by swing voters. The last election is a perfect example that Republicans can say or do just about anything, but Democrats have to be near perfect on optics to get the same result. Actually this is because the Dems have a long and storied history of making GBS threads all over their base once they get into office, whereas the GOP actually gives their base what they want.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:41
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Chomskyan posted:No, and sadly liberals can not help but poo poo up every thread they encounter so I doubt any thread will ever be free of their pedantry  , and I say this as a leftist
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Nov 9, 2017 18:41
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I actually think that this thread is getting better as time goes on. Both sides are cooling off, and starting to agree with each other more. Mirrors what I see in real life, too.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:42
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E: double post, this is what I get for phone posting.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:42
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SKULL.GIF posted:I still haven't seen one single liberal policy worth supporting that the left wasn't also pushing or had a better alternative that helps more people and is more robust. This sounds like a vote of confidence for lefty-Dem cooperation, idk how you're interpreting it.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:42
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https://twitter.com/DSALincolnNE/status/928316853033816064 yeah! go DSA!
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Nov 9, 2017 18:43
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If you honestly believe that the establishment actually wants to cooperate with the left as opposed to shoving it back into the box to be dragged forth once every four years, you really haven't been paying much attention.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:44
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Talmonis posted:General elections against fascist strongmen with delusions of grandeur are not the ideal moment to boycott your own candidate. That this fact eludes you is bewildering. The Democratic party is full of "A Certain Family's" centrist grifters, and they hold too much power. The Liberals in the party want the Slavery supporters and the racists stripped of power, while still beholden to the party's overall goals, so they don't just join the Republicans. We got screwed this year by the party heads. Liberals did. Not a bunch of outside agitators with no stake, tut-tutting our impurity. We tried to stop Trump, and had to support a lesser evil to do it. We failed because you didn't help, then turned around and blamed those of us who actually tried to get a different candidate in the first place using the only available method of doing so. Your error is in identifying as a Democrat over identifying with Justice and Equality. You need to understand that you are emblematic of the average non republicans in this country. You are the left too, but the left did not betray you. It's time for a political revolution brother(?) and many of us are prepared to show you the way.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:44
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Potato Salad posted:This sounds like a vote of confidence for lefty-Dem cooperation, idk how you're interpreting it. Unspoken was how liberals keep pushing policies that aren't worth supporting. So what's the benefit for compromising with them instead of forcing them to come to the left?
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Nov 9, 2017 18:45
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Talmonis posted:Yep. And it would be far worse, as Democrats are always held to a much higher standard by swing voters. The last election is a perfect example that Republicans can say or do just about anything, but Democrats have to be near perfect on optics to get the same result. Swing voters might as well not exist in how much their opinions matter. Don't they end up only actually being like 4% of all voters and most independents are just republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves republicans? What matters is turning out the base, and that's exactly what happened in virginia. (thank you black democrats for turning out and saving white people from themselves)
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Nov 9, 2017 18:45
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Democrazy posted:I actually think that this thread is getting better as time goes on. Both sides are cooling off, and starting to agree with each other more. Mirrors what I see in real life, too. One of the many things that happens when the country is controlled by right wing fascists is that the opposition, which includes the whole spectrum from never trump republicans to leftists, gets compressed and debate is stifled. You can only really have a left vs liberal debate when the center left is in power.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:46
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SKULL.GIF posted:Unspoken was how liberals keep pushing policies that aren't worth supporting. So what's the benefit for compromising with them instead of forcing them to come to the left? I would say it's because maybe not everyone on the left plectrum agrees with your policy and that in order to gain their support and and enact what you want, you will have to compromise on your position to accommodate them.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:49
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Lightning Knight posted:Leftism is the superior ideology, but lmao if you think liberalism has anything close to a monopoly in the bad posting.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:50
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Chomskyan posted:There are definitely leftist poo poo posters. But liberals obviously make up the lion share of badposters in US pol threads these days. Really they just congregate in the Trump thread and post about how awful all us children in the "bad thread" are, and rage hard if you dare interrupt their thread while they do the 2 minute hate towards Trump every time a tweet happens. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2017 18:52
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mcmagic posted:One of the many things that happens when the country is controlled by right wing fascists is that the opposition, which includes the whole spectrum from never trump republicans to leftists, gets compressed and debate is stifled. You can only really have a left vs liberal debate when the center left is in power. This is some serious bullshit right here, buddo. It's exactly when the old way of doing things has been revealed to be an utter failure that you need to chart a new course, and that can't happen without internal debate.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:52
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Cerebral Bore posted:This is some serious bullshit right here, buddo. It's exactly when the old way of doing things has been revealed to be an utter failure that you need to chart a new course, and that can't happen without internal debate. You're missreading my post if you don't think i'm 100% for internal debate. It's just the reality of what happens when the right is in power.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:53
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928681128978010113 loving hell
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Nov 9, 2017 18:53
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Democrazy posted:I would say it's because maybe not everyone on the left plectrum agrees with your policy and that in order to gain their support and and enact what you want, you will have to compromise on your position to accommodate them. I don't see it. In fact we should probably just have a US Socialist thread at this point and push out/ban all the liberals so an actual discussion can be had. Liberals have basically already done the same thing in reverse with the Trump thread. It's the natural trend
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Nov 9, 2017 18:54
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WampaLord posted:So are you mad at like the 2 posters here who said they didn't vote for Hillary? Or are you mad at the tiny fraction of Bernie voters who didn't vote for Clinton, despite that being a far less number than 2008 Hillary voters who didn't vote for Obama? How about being annoyed at the 2008 people, since they tried to tank Obama, and then pissed at anyone who helped Trump by not voting. It might not solve a lot, but it's pretty infuriating to get poo poo on by those few (loud, persistant) posters who didn't vote, while blaming Liberals for Trump. We might not be owed their votes, but it's that lack that helped Trump. It's a valid gripe. quote:Will the same liberals who come into this thread and criticize leftists for "not doing anything" hold corrupt Democrats to account, now that the euphoria of election night is over? Or will leftist organizations like the DSA have to do all the work as usual? Yes, it's up to the people in the party to absolutely hold their feet to the fire. Northam needs to be flooded with demands to do the job he was sent to do. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:This isn't very coherent, but the thing I can glean from it is that you don't think Leftists are democrats, and that's a false premise. I'm a leftist and also a democrat. There are lots of honest to god socialists who are democrats because it's the only viable party to be. We aren't "a bunch of outside agitators with no stake." Your assumptions make your reasoning faulty from the get-go, and that's why you keep getting in these fights about it. I'm not exactly college educated, so please forgive the lovely writing. I was getting the impression from the folks in the thread that were attacking "Liberals" were not Democrats at all. If I'm mistaken, I take that back. You're doing your job, and I agree with you for the most part.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:54
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mcmagic posted:You're missreading my post if you don't think i'm 100% for internal debate. It's just the reality of what happens when the right is in power. No it isn't. Trump is in power and the debate is going on right now.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:55
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Democrazy posted:I would say it's because maybe not everyone on the left plectrum agrees with your policy and that in order to gain their support and and enact what you want, you will have to compromise on your position to accommodate them. What exact policies are we talking about and who exactly supports them? Making generalizations like this is bizarre in a forum dedicated to pissing on each other over minutiae in policy.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:55
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GIVE YOUR MONEY TO DOUG JONES. https://dougjonesforsenate.com/ https://dougjonesforsenate.com/ https://dougjonesforsenate.com/ https://dougjonesforsenate.com/ https://dougjonesforsenate.com/
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Nov 9, 2017 18:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:No it isn't. Trump is in power and the debate is going on right now. It is here but not in the media.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:56
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mcmagic posted:It is here but not in the media. If you think the media ever would give the left an actual opportunity to debate on equal grounds, you seriously haven't been paying attention.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:57
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