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The thing is that the system, while a lazy concept, had a shitload of promise and could have been more. Static defense missions, where you'd have limited resources to make turrets/defensive fortifications, set up traps and other poo poo is something other games have done really well. Even something as simple as being able to throw down cover in a firefight would have been great If they'd have stolen some of the better shooting mechanics from Wolfenstein, hory shiit
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Nov 9, 2017 03:49
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I'm also not against the idea of the Institute as the main villains in theory, I just wish they would have been handled better. For example, someone mentioned before that in some piece of Fallout universe lore, there was a weather machine or something along those lines that created a perpetual storm that blocked off a huge section of the united states. That would have been a much better way of separating and hiding the Institute from the main game world instead of relying on lame teleportation. Just replace the glowing sea section of the map with a giant hurricane that kills anyone that tries to cross through it. And from that storm, out come bands of synths that conduct raids on the settlements. Also forget the synths abducting people and replacing them with perfect copies. Just have the synths straight up kidnap children and take them back through the storm never to be seen again. Vakal fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 04:29
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I love that the Brotherhood with all their loving smarts came prepared with grade-A air game for an enemy which lives miles underground.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:40
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Vakal posted:I'm also not against the idea of the Institute as the main villains in theory, I just wish they would have been handled better. The joke loving brains in Old World Blues had a more solid base than they did Like, seriously, what the gently caress was their purpose? To use their dumb replicants to control less than three hundred loving junk farmers? What ~incredible motivations~
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Nov 9, 2017 04:50
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I think the point was to replace people with Synths because they were hardier to the conditions of the post-apocalyptic world, but yeah in practice replacing people was not actually achieving that aim and also clearly people were surviving in the Commonwealth so they are trying to solve a non-existent problem.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:56
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A simple enough explanation would be that they're using subtle replacements and simultaneous blatant attacks to make the commonwealth's communities reclusive as just one step in a long term social engineering project meant to rebuild civilization in microcosm since they don't believe anywhere else has survived.
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Nov 9, 2017 05:00
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To be honest, the true evil of the Institute should have been transhumanism, like they started raising with our buddy whos skull we enter. Like, we the living would be cybernetically enhanced, but the synths would be the future, humanity 2.0, as it were. That would have been suitably divisive, because the synths wouldn't really even have to end mankind; they'd just die out of natural causes. That's also why they need their synths back; they need to harvest their parts and data to create newer and better models, that have adapted to new and different things naturally and also explains why they send them out to fight.
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Nov 9, 2017 05:05
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
The Institute as it was presented would have worked better if they took all the humans out and just had the whole thing run by synths. An easy excuse for that would be to have it originally started by humans but then they all died from old age. Then you would have a bunch of self-replicating artificial beings with a hardwired goal of trying to be human, but because they are robots the best plan they can come up with is straight up replacing already living people and copying their minds, thus missing the point of becoming unique, sentient beings. But then you'd have to come up with a different motivation for the main character instead of just "My Baby!" Vakal fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 06:41
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Vakal posted:The Institute as it was presented would have worked better if they took all the humans out and just had the whole thing run by synths. An easy excuse for that would be to have it originally started by humans but then they all died from old age. At the point where they get baby Shaun, they've hosed up their genetics to such a degree they need some kinda clean slate to, uuhhh, some kinda technobabble, maybe as a control group? To repair their hosed up genes? Or some such bullcrap. And there's a lotta synths and yeah, maybe you can have as a late-game betrayal that a shitload of your dudes are synths that have disagree with you? Idk But yeah, your kid then just simply works his way up the ranks, then does the same idiot plan he has in the game about showing you how hosed poo poo is and instead goes like: "What if we could be better? What if we could become something more, literally??" in that characteristically charismatic Bethesda style. Basically a better Caesar Then just link in some poo poo about renouncing free will or a hive mind or some crap and you can have the Railroad be about living free as a synth with man and machine at peace, the Brotherhood being all "Flesh Before Metal" and the Minutemen being all "Gee shucks General, we'll just do what you say!" a la Yes Man. Or any other direction, as the foundations are way more unique now and better than "EVIL SCIENCE!"
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Nov 9, 2017 06:53
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Despite so much of Fallout 4 being about Synths, they never even got around to discussing the singular interesting point which is-- do they have a subjective experience? Is, as Thomas Nagel would have said, there anything that it's "like" to be a Synth? The whole railroad plot turns on that point but no one ever mentions it.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:06
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Seashell Salesman posted:Despite so much of Fallout 4 being about Synths, they never even got around to discussing the singular interesting point which is-- do they have a subjective experience? Is, as Thomas Nagel would have said, there anything that it's "like" to be a Synth? The whole railroad plot turns on that point but no one ever mentions it. DiMA sort of talks about that in Far Harbor. He doesn't like that the Railroad is erasing the memories of the synths that they are "rescuing". Now that I think of it, it is a shame that DiMA wasn't in the main game instead of just in the DLC. He could have fixed a lot of issues with the narrative of the Institute, even if that meant making him an antagonist. In the least it would give Shaun a better reason for being involved: Plan A - We tried to make realistic looking synths that acted human and that failed. Plan B - We tried copying human memories directly into synths, but even then the paranoid humans found them out. Plan C - gently caress it, bring me a human child that we can raise and replace his brain entirely. Vakal fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 07:20
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Vakal posted:DiMA sort of talks about that in Far Harbor. He doesn't like that the Railroad is erasing the memories of the synths that they are "rescuing". But memories (and here he obviously means long-term memory) are basically orthogonal to whether or not there is any subjective experience. We still give a poo poo about people with no long-term memory because they clearly still have a subjective experience, but no one gives a poo poo about a hard disk no matter how much memory it has.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:26
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Seashell Salesman posted:I think the point was to replace people with Synths because they were hardier to the conditions of the post-apocalyptic world, but yeah in practice replacing people was not actually achieving that aim and also clearly people were surviving in the Commonwealth so they are trying to solve a non-existent problem. Even if they thought it was a problem that people couldn't survive, they made it 1000% worse by dumping hundreds of super mutants into Boston from their experiments. Ignoring the synths alltogether, the Institute were as bad as the Enclave because of that alone.
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Nov 9, 2017 16:08
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I would have loved a synths-only Institute; at least then they might have made a lick of sense. As is, those dolts' grand philosophy is apparently "Let's create a slightly hardier version of humans that won't go extinct, and then give them the most human minds possible. You know, in this world where the flaws and failures of the human mind, not physical frailty, have created 99% of the world's problems/extinction threats. Durrrrrr." Teleporters can't zap a modicum of self-awareness or rational perspective that far down, apparently. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 16:38
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Vakal posted:The Institute as it was presented would have worked better if they took all the humans out and just had the whole thing run by synths. An easy excuse for that would be to have it originally started by humans but then they all died from old age. So basically The Master except with robots instead of super mutants.
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Nov 9, 2017 17:09
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Trustworthy posted:I would have loved a synths-only Institute; at least then they might have made a lick of sense. It's exactly the kind of solution I'd expect from a bunch of engineers working in isolation for 200 odd years.
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Nov 9, 2017 17:20
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Well it's definitely the case that there is some level of hardiness beyond which we don't need to worry about nuclear blasts or residual radiation-- so it's a legitimate way to solve the problem.
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Nov 9, 2017 17:26
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Deceitful Penguin posted:All the Institute needs is a loving purpose for petes sake That could be spun into a neat idea - The Institute has been isolated for so long that they've totally lost sight of their original goal and are just enjoying playing God with the poor schmucks on the surface. Father has tried repeatedly - and failed - to remind them of their humanity and decency. This culminates in them making a Synth of the parent who wasn't shot in the beginning because he said "I wish I could meet my real parents" once. He's horrified at the callousness at first, but after taking you to the rooftop and unloading on all the dumb poo poo the Institute has done "in the name of science," you can try to convince him that you're in much better physical and mental shape to deal with his fellow eggheads. He knows it's likely a fools errand, but still pleads for you to help do all you can to save his peers from themselves before he dies.
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Nov 9, 2017 17:53
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Father Wendigo posted:That could be spun into a neat idea - The Institute has been isolated for so long that they've totally lost sight of their original goal and are just enjoying playing God with the poor schmucks on the surface. Father has tried repeatedly - and failed - to remind them of their humanity and decency. This culminates in them making a Synth of the parent who wasn't shot in the beginning because he said "I wish I could meet my real parents" once. He's horrified at the callousness at first, but after taking you to the rooftop and unloading on all the dumb poo poo the Institute has done "in the name of science," you can try to convince him that you're in much better physical and mental shape to deal with his fellow eggheads. He knows it's likely a fools errand, but still pleads for you to help do all you can to save his peers from themselves before he dies. Having an unkillable corsair chasing you throughout the game that was made to look like either Nate/Nora would have been pretty cool. It would also have made the choice of joining the Institute more appealing if it meant you got to keep them as a companion.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:00
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If we're talking about hypothetical "You were a synth all along!" plots, then I'd want to see them have you do the first half of the game as normal, but then after you meet with Shaun at the institute, once you return to the commonwealth everyone acts like they've never met you because you were actually just experiencing a simulation of the commonwealth based on the observations of the other synths.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:14
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Father Wendigo posted:That could be spun into a neat idea - The Institute has been isolated for so long that they've totally lost sight of their original goal and are just enjoying playing God with the poor schmucks on the surface. Father has tried repeatedly - and failed - to remind them of their humanity and decency. This culminates in them making a Synth of the parent who wasn't shot in the beginning because he said "I wish I could meet my real parents" once. He's horrified at the callousness at first, but after taking you to the rooftop and unloading on all the dumb poo poo the Institute has done "in the name of science," you can try to convince him that you're in much better physical and mental shape to deal with his fellow eggheads. He knows it's likely a fools errand, but still pleads for you to help do all you can to save his peers from themselves before he dies. Vakal posted:Having an unkillable corsair chasing you throughout the game that was made to look like either Nate/Nora would have been pretty cool.
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Nov 10, 2017 04:00
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The Institute has the sweetest Power Armor paintjob in the game, which is more than enough to convince me that they're the good guys in all of this.
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Nov 10, 2017 04:29
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Gods, why is Bethesda so bad. What were they thinking when they sat down with their storyboards and decided "yes, this is extremely good poo poo" when these are such baller loving ideas and their are so, tepidly inadequate. They spent most of their time coming up with the list of a thousand character names that Codsworth can say.
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Nov 10, 2017 04:41
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Gods, why is Bethesda so bad. What were they thinking when they sat down with their storyboards and decided "yes, this is extremely good poo poo" when these are such baller loving ideas and their are so, tepidly inadequate. Aaaand then there's the speech/medicine/CHA check at the end to make sure that the lesson that they learned was that their isolation has rendered their research impractical, and not that smearing brains across the walls is fun and artistic.
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Nov 10, 2017 05:17
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Keeshhound posted:If we're talking about hypothetical "You were a synth all along!" plots, then I'd want to see them have you do the first half of the game as normal, but then after you meet with Shaun at the institute, once you return to the commonwealth everyone acts like they've never met you because you were actually just experiencing a simulation of the commonwealth based on the observations of the other synths. Do like the blade runner game and make it random. You can be human but you could also turn out to be a synth where Kellog downloaded your memories. You find out by return to vault 111 and finding yourself still frozen. Various clues could be almost failing the Covenant test. Synth dialogue and so on
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Nov 10, 2017 09:10
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Father Wendigo posted:Seriously, just imagine it: You take the super-War Hawkish weapons designer on a canned hunt through a raider stronghold, and they realize their 40+ weight mega weapon is impractical and learn to love the simplicity of beating peoples skulls open with a lead pipe. "Here's a dozen doses of PsychoJet. Would you like to make more?"
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Nov 10, 2017 17:32
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The whole "replacing existing people" thing takes The Institute into cartoonishly evil territory. Like, you already have a world with ghouls, super mutants and other horrors, do you really think people would be that averse to humanlike robots in general, especially if you make them slightly distinct from actual humans? The only reason people hate The Institute is because their friends were killed and replaced by robots. (Not to mention that they think of robots as the next step in human evolution, but somehow don't believe in their consciousness or agency. Their plan is to replace conscious humans with an army of slaves with no masters.)
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Nov 10, 2017 18:06
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ymgve posted:(Not to mention that they think of robots as the next step in human evolution, but somehow don't believe in their consciousness or agency. Their plan is to replace conscious humans with an army of slaves with no masters.) Commonwealth of Things
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Nov 10, 2017 18:33
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:"Here's a dozen doses of PsychoJet. Would you like to make more?" Mmm mmm, wasted potential. 
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Nov 11, 2017 04:27
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Father Wendigo posted:Ya know, Nuka World would have been the ideal place to find Kellogg and plant the seeds the optional raider "gently caress Everything Burn It All" optional ending. Just imagine it, getting the skeeviest members of each faction together to run train on everyone else and turn the Commonwealth into your own personal fun house à la Nothing But Trouble. Can you imagine how good the Raider campaign would be if it was chasing Kellogg out to Nuka World, then having him dish on the terrible poo poo the Institute got him to do, and how deeply they've penetrated all the existing power structures, then presenting you a third option: let the Commonwealth burn.
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Nov 11, 2017 16:50
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Hell, have Nick get partially taken over by Kellog or something as possibly the least intolerable party member I'd be up for having him be in all the DLCs
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Nov 11, 2017 17:43
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Hell, have Nick get partially taken over by Kellog or something Nick and Curie are the two best companions that aren't Dogmeat.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:13
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Nick bitched at me for stealing poo poo. Cait found it funny. Cait is also totally on board with slapping on a Power Fist and punching the poo poo out of everyone and everything. Cait is the best companion.
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Nov 13, 2017 16:46
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Backhand posted:Nick bitched at me for stealing poo poo. Cait found it funny. Cait is also totally on board with slapping on a Power Fist and punching the poo poo out of everyone and everything. HELLO OIM FOIGHTING OIRISH HOHOHO At least the French robot was programmed to sound like that
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Nov 13, 2017 17:22
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Father Wendigo posted:Ya know, Nuka World would have been the ideal place to find Kellogg and plant the seeds the optional raider "gently caress Everything Burn It All" optional ending. Just imagine it, getting the skeeviest members of each faction together to run train on everyone else and turn the Commonwealth into your own personal fun house à la Nothing But Trouble. Not with the way they pitched him, I don't think. Kellogg is a killer, but he's not a ganger. And whether or not Father is actively trying to kill him by leaving his idealized parent a trail to follow, Kellogg certainly believes it and resolves to go down fighting, rather than run and meet the business end of Blue Laser. I want Nuka-World to add a raider ending to the main game, hell, I want Nuka-World to have options for the Minutemen/Brotherhood/Institute to clear out the raiders for their own purposes and/or the Railroad establish a safehouse and do some ops. But I don't think Kellogg is necessarily the connector there.
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Nov 13, 2017 20:30
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Backhand posted:Nick bitched at me for stealing poo poo. Cait found it funny. Cait is also totally on board with slapping on a Power Fist and punching the poo poo out of everyone and everything. I really just wish Danse post-reveal actually changed his responses and behaviors to reflect things. It would've been even better if you could shape his attitude with your responses.
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Nov 14, 2017 05:38
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MikeJF posted:I really just wish Danse post-reveal actually changed his responses and behaviors to reflect things. Or at least bring him to Doc Amari for
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Nov 14, 2017 18:48
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So I’m out of internet for a couple days, have fo on disc but all the addon dlc was done digitally. I can load the game and play without any dlc, will I gently caress up my progress on the dlc when I get internet back? Mostly concerned about Far Harbor.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:52
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I finally got around to buying this game, only two years late! Are there any mods that are absolutely mandatory to have?
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Nov 24, 2017 01:25
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xxEightxx posted:So I’m out of internet for a couple days, have fo on disc but all the addon dlc was done digitally. I can load the game and play without any dlc, will I gently caress up my progress on the dlc when I get internet back? Mostly concerned about Far Harbor.
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Nov 24, 2017 02:10
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