Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

release the 3.0 you scamming thumb

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Solarin posted:

release the 3.0 you scamming thumb

They can't it's terrible, 291 bugs last week, 339 this week.

Increasing the player counts is marketing spin for the sales, 3.0 is unplayable and releasing it anytime soon might well sink them.

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

Truga posted:

:wrong:

a cheapass t-34 is better than both

Quantity has a quality all of its own?

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

The Titanic posted:

This is that magic moment when, if Chris Roberts actually knew what he was doing, he and his team would get that cold chill up their spine. That realization that not only did you miss the project goal, but you missed it by such a large volume almost the whole thing needs to be redeveloped almost from the very core level. What’s worse is you already set expectations to your customers, and are hugely over budget and have blown past even the worst of your time projections.

Somehow I don’t think he realizes this though, or even worse he just doesn’t even care anymore. Star Citizen will pretty much never be an mmo. People are spending tons of money to play warlord in a 6 player instance where they’ll never have their huge orgs, won’t be able to have any meaningful impact on the game or it’s economy in any way, and in some cases people will have more crew requirements than the game will support actual players.

Enjoy Arena Commander 2: Revenge of the Vanfuckedover.

That is by design. They at some point outlined that players can't actually change the price of anything in any meaningful way. It's a feature.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Codezombie posted:

Quantity has a quality all of its own?

Basically, yeah.

Panzers ware quality built tanks that only broke down beyond any repair after about 400-600km of travel IIRC (this is just driving the tank, not any battle damage or anything), while t-34s only managed between 100 and 300km most of the time, but the amount of manhours that went into a t-34 was like a tenth, and the factories, tooling and assembly were simple. And apart from breaking down more often, they weren't that worse off as far as battle effectiveness goes. Soviets built like 60k from 1941 until the end of the war. By comparison, Panzer 3 and 4 combined saw something like 15k, and Germany started tank mass production well before the war. :v:

Combat Theory
Jul 16, 2017

Truga posted:

Basically, yeah.

Panzers ware quality built tanks that only broke down beyond any repair after about 400-600km of travel IIRC (this is just driving the tank, not any battle damage or anything), while t-34s only managed between 100 and 300km most of the time, but the amount of manhours that went into a t-34 was like a tenth, and the factories, tooling and assembly were simple. And apart from breaking down more often, they weren't that worse off as far as battle effectiveness goes. Soviets built like 60k from 1941 until the end of the war. By comparison, Panzer 3 and 4 combined saw something like 15k, and Germany started tank mass production well before the war. :v:

To be fair both Panzer III and Panzer IV were really designs for the Western Europe campaign, in which they prevailed against all competitors by a large margin.

Battle effectiveness of the entire tank system t34 was well below German standards as with all Russian designs of that time, not for the mechanical part, which was superior in the eastern environment, but due to the lack of any internal or radio communication equipment. Lack of coordination can render an advantage by an order of magnitude inefficient under complex circumstances.

Then again, the entire eastern winter war and it's outcome clearly gives the Soviet doctrine of quantity over quality the edge for the time.

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

Truga posted:

Basically, yeah.

Panzers ware quality built tanks that only broke down beyond any repair after about 400-600km of travel IIRC (this is just driving the tank, not any battle damage or anything), while t-34s only managed between 100 and 300km most of the time, but the amount of manhours that went into a t-34 was like a tenth, and the factories, tooling and assembly were simple. And apart from breaking down more often, they weren't that worse off as far as battle effectiveness goes. Soviets built like 60k from 1941 until the end of the war. By comparison, Panzer 3 and 4 combined saw something like 15k, and Germany started tank mass production well before the war. :v:

That's true at least until the Tigers, which were intensively manpower hungry to construct, to heavy to operate in critical parts of Eastern Europe, and decidedly unreliable and fuel hungry to boot.
Oh and they *still* did'nt have gun stabalisers (though stabalising what was basically a somewhat mobile pillbox was of limited value I guess) and their range finders were increasingly obsolete.

Combat Theory
Jul 16, 2017

Also Codezombie and Truga we should play WT tanks together if you are into that.

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

Combat Theory posted:

To be fair both Panzer III and Panzer IV were really designs for the Western Europe campaign, in which they prevailed against all competitors by a large margin.

Battle effectiveness of the entire tank system t34 was well below German standards as with all Russian designs of that time, not for the mechanical part, which was superior in the eastern environment, but due to the lack of any internal or radio communication equipment. Lack of coordination can render an advantage by an order of magnitude inefficient under complex circumstances.

Then again, the entire eastern winter war and it's outcome clearly gives the Soviet doctrine of quantity over quality the edge for the time.

The problem was that early war, the Allies never played the German game, Germans wanted tank v tank warfare, the Allies felt (rightly) that field guns were better for tank killing and used 25pdr field guns in return, to be fair the Germans returned the favour using 88mm AA guns as tank killers. That lead to the development mid war of actual tracked tank destroyers. By the end of the war the Allies were coming around to the idea of Tank v Tank warfare was a real thing , some thing they had been trying to deny for a while, and it was pretty much game over for the Germans. The Firefly was a hashed up compromise stop gap of a design which finally reversed the combat ratio of Allied tanks to German (0.9 Fireflies to 1 Tiger according to the long declassified reports I've seen) and Firefly itself could be seen as a stop gap for project A41, which never made it onto a WWII battlefield, and the M26 Pershing which did, I'm not sure ever encountered a Tiger, just older obsolete tanks.

The Tiger in many ways is the mirror image of the Bolton Defiant, both are poor designs designed to fight an obsolete foe something which they both did actually rather well, its only when facing peer opponents is the fatal flaw exposed. Its just that the Defiant was forced to face peer adversaries, while the Tiger never really did. Had the war dragged on a few more months, we'd probably laugh at the Tiger the way we do the Defiant.


Tldr: Star Citizen is the deformed bastard child of a Bolton Defiant and Tiger tank.

Codezombie fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Nov 10, 2017

SCtrumpHaters
Oct 28, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Truga posted:

Basically, yeah.

Panzers ware quality built tanks that only broke down beyond any repair after about 400-600km of travel IIRC (this is just driving the tank, not any battle damage or anything), while t-34s only managed between 100 and 300km most of the time, but the amount of manhours that went into a t-34 was like a tenth, and the factories, tooling and assembly were simple. And apart from breaking down more often, they weren't that worse off as far as battle effectiveness goes. Soviets built like 60k from 1941 until the end of the war. By comparison, Panzer 3 and 4 combined saw something like 15k, and Germany started tank mass production well before the war. :v:

Yea the tooling and organization of russian factories is really a cool story. The US sent knowledgable industrialists to plan the factories, workflow, and build plans. Russians straight up dismantled and moved dozens of factories to the interior.

The germans main problem was they kept loving with build plans trying to make a super tank because they knew they could never build as many as the allies could. It made the entire process even less efficient as a result. Near the end of the war a tank at the end of the assembly line would have many different designs and parts than a tank just starting to be built.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
A non-insignificant part of that being the nazi brass masturbating about their superweapons, I bet. :v:

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001

https://i.imgur.com/smwmWbB.gifv

McGiggins
Apr 4, 2014

by R. Guyovich
Lipstick Apathy

Toops posted:

Now imagine for a moment you too are an awkward dork who relies on escapism just to get through the day and loves outer space.

Toops will not divide us.

Beexoffel
Oct 4, 2015

Herald of the Stimpire



I'm an explorer so I like to be able to see through my glasses.

McGiggins
Apr 4, 2014

by R. Guyovich
Lipstick Apathy

Breetai posted:

XENOMORPH

Please talk more about something being in something in relation to this topic, please. :circlefap:

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

:siren:SEKRET CLASSIFIED INFORMATION:siren:

CIG has the FPS problem solved. Now that the FPS pipelines are in plaxe and working, the amount of FPS should skyrocket. Also notice how SC runs clearly better than BR2049, which costs like 150mil.

AutismVaccine fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Nov 10, 2017

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

Solarin posted:

release the 3.0 you scamming thumb

The less actual gameplay is shown, the more money is earned.

(remember the golf swing radar or other broken stuff)

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Daztek posted:

https://pastebin.com/FsQw5kUk


Star Citizen: the performance was acceptable. (20~30 FPS)

I think my favorite might be this one:

quote:

The Aurora series should no longer be leaking quantum fuel

How does this even happen?!?

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Bofast posted:

How does this even happen?!?
The gravity goo corrodes the seals.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

SelenicMartian posted:

The gravity goo corrodes the seals.

SCtrumpHaters
Oct 28, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Truga posted:

A non-insignificant part of that being the nazi brass masturbating about their superweapons, I bet. :v:

The reason they jacked off on superweapons is because they knew they couldnt win a prolonged war of attrition against 3/4s of the planets redources so they desperately looked for force multipliers. Did get cool poo poo like rockets and jets out of it. It worked to a small extent goofy poo poo aside a ww2 german soldier was much more combat effective than the average allied soldier. US soldiers came close after they got into it and got exp. but in the end it wasnt even close.

SCtrumpHaters fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Nov 10, 2017

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

D_Smart posted:

Just another DS alt of course. Why do you ask? :allears:

Star Citizen - I am become Derek, destroyer of dreams™ :smuggo:

Mr Fronts
Jan 31, 2016

Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.

When Humility is happy, I am happy.

Stay safe, seal ghost.

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

SCtrumpHaters posted:

The reason they jacked off on superweapons is because they knew they couldnt win a prolonged war of attrition against 3/4s of the planets redources so they desperately looked for force multipliers. Did get cool poo poo like rockets and jets out of it. It worked to a small extent goofy poo poo aside a ww2 german soldier was much more combat effective than the average allied soldier. US soldiers came close after they got into it and got exp. but in the end it wasnt even close.

We certainly did not get jets out of the Germans, they were well behind the curve in regards to jet engines
Good lord while Whittles engine may have had a piss poor 80 hour service life, it was still a wee bit better than the J004 in the Me262 which had a service life of somewhere just under ten hours. The german jets were so poor their engines were literally melting in flight.

however, as you rightly point out, the Germans were absolutely desperate, so they used what they had.

Codezombie fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Nov 10, 2017

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

Mr Fronts posted:

When Humility is happy, I am happy.

Stay safe, seal ghost.

Looks like this seal is high on gravity goo

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

DapperDon posted:

This is a good post. But I would like to discuss 2 points you have raised.

1. Your absolutely correct that they are remembering the good old days and hoping that with todays technology that they could be even better than before. So more features mean more of theor dreams get to be relived. The problem with that is the good ol' days weren't all that good. It's like when you think about your favorite movie as a kid and then try and re-watch it as an adult and with each passing scene, that same movie you once loved turns out to be poo poo smeared on film stock.

2. Chris Roberts knew drat well that he could not make the game he pitched with the money he was asking for. I refuse to give him a pass on being that ignorant. After all didn't he pay the Crytek guys to make his demo? And what did just that demo cost? Now compare that to what he was asking for and then you be the judge of that. And even if he IS that ignorant, I am not giving him a pass because gently caress that guy.

Oh yeah, nostalgia is a deceptive mindset but it's a mindset so many people want to latch onto because they think the problem is that the current age of gaming (to make a specific statement on nostalgia in regards to Star Citizen) has nothing for them. Who knows, maybe it doesn't! Generally speaking though, I think with age does come a general feeling of becoming jaded intentionally or not. You see enough of how the sausage gets made or get burned on something new enough times you get giddy for something that tells you everything is broken, you're still a perfect and pure minded person, and that your greatest game is coming if only you beliiiiieve.

As for point 2 I don't use it as a way to excuse Chris' failings. He's definitely been trying harder and harder to obfuscate the problems and failings of the project as time has gone. But I have no doubt he believes that he can pull off Star Citizen, just that people are letting him down. He pitched his ideas to publishers first, he clearly thought he could do it then too. If he projects enough of that confidence people who already wanted what he was selling definitely come on board.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

whales have started receiving their VIP black cards in the mail.



The Latin reads "loyalty until the end"

I would have guessed "Give me fidelity or give me death".

SCtrumpHaters
Oct 28, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Codezombie posted:

We certainly did not get jets out of the Germans, they were well behind the curve in regards to jet engines
Good lord while Whittles engine may have had a piss poor 80 hour service life, it was still a wee bit better than the J004 in the Me262 which had a service life of somewhere just under ten hours. The german jets were so poor their engines were literally melting in flight.

however, as you rightly point out, the Germans were absolutely desperate, so they used what they had.

Yea you are right about the jets.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

The Titanic posted:

I’d give this guys left testicle too. And if he used it already I’ll be glad to donate his right one. I think that should help keep mistakes like this from potentially happening again in the distant future.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to lose their testes to Ms. Cruise Liner" - Santayana (sort of)

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

AlbieQuirky posted:

No it doesn't.

They think it does.

Edit to add, because I brought it up before and didn't want to be boring, but now I want to be boring:

Quoad with any form of the indicative means "as long as." To make quoad mean "until", you need the subjunctive.

"Faithful as long as we will die" is ridiculous.

The reason they got into this trap is that they didn't want to use "dum", a much easier adverb to work with. But it looks like "dumb", which they are. :hist101:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Baxta posted:

The faithful die?

That makes me think of Fedule's LP of Virtue's Last Reward. Won't post it here, though, 'cause anime.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

AlbieQuirky posted:

No it doesn't.

They think it does.

Edit to add, because I brought it up before and didn't want to be boring, but now I want to be boring:

Quoad with any form of the indicative means "as long as." To make quoad mean "until", you need the subjunctive.

"Faithful as long as we will die" is ridiculous.

The reason they got into this trap is that they didn't want to use "dum", a much easier adverb to work with. But it looks like "dumb", which they are. :hist101:

:five:

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

I love pineapple on pizza, but this is just wrong

Mne nravitsya
Jul 14, 2017



You can't hide your lyin' eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise
I thought by now you'd realize
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes

Mne nravitsya fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Nov 10, 2017

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development
https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/AgileRecklessLemur

:stare:

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Breetai posted:

Captain Kirk beaming down to King's Landing

When You. Play. The game of thrones. You win or You. Die.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Toops posted:

I'm the m4.4xlarge needed to put 3 commandos in the same room together at 24FPS.

LOL!! As I mentioned yesterday, I bet that's what they are doing now, hence the "60 clients" test.

It's hilarious that a game billed as an MMO, six years in, is doing tests of more than 16 clients in an instance. :laffo:

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Breetai posted:

I know that by admitting this I'm announcing a loss as I'm letting myself get caremad about stupid nerd culture bullshit, but there's a particular type of pop culture nerd who just loooves the idea of mashing up multiple geek IPs together and will breathlessly gush about :siren:"WOULDN'T IT BE SO COOL IF HARRY POTTER COULD BE IN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE AND ALSO THE XENOMORPH FROM ALIENS WAS THERE?!?":siren:, and it really annoys me. The thought process appears to be 'I like X and I like Y, therefore if X and Y were together it would be EVEN MORE awesome".

But all it really does is betray a shallow-to-nonexistent understanding of what makes their preferred movie/book/whatever good. It shows a paucity of knowledge with regards to the concept of tone or theme in fictional works. Which is fine when you're 10 and the reason you like Starship Troopers is you get to watch the Good Guys shoot the bugs, but when you're a grown adult and you don't understand that Captain Kirk beaming down to King's Landing is going to be poo poo, it's a problem. And it's an even bigger problem when you're directing a multimillion dollar video game.

So yeah: put in a sandworm because you like sandworms because they're big and scary. And put in the planet from pitch black. And put in a Blade Runner cityscape. And put in Space Rome and Space China and service means citizenship. Surely your messianic horror cyberpunk space opera with social commentary won't be a jumbled mess.

Or at least in this case it won't because Roberts is adding them in with no regard to their thematic content nor to the context that they were originally displayed in. It's a sizzle reel approach where he's including things without understanding them because he thinks they're cool.

Sci-fi video game creator Chris Roberts doesn't understand the first loving thing about sci-fi, and neither does his audience.

I bet you loved Ready Player One.

Warhawk109
Mar 13, 2017

Truga posted:

:wrong:

a cheapass t-34 is better than both

T-34 is overrated. Poor optics, no commanders cupola, commander had to double as loader. Germans were wrecking soviet tanks early in the war at something like a 9:1 kd ratio.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SCtrumpHaters
Oct 28, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo
Imagine if you will,

The lone Tiger tank, Star Citizen, valiantly fighting against the swarm of lowly T-34 AAA games. Commander CDProjekt Red or Commander Rockstar might be good enough to take the Tiger on, on a good day.

But the Tiger bows to no publisher, and finally achieves AAAA status as the final solution to gaming sweeps across the world.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5