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The Deleter posted:Marking the days until it turns out Duncan did something bad. Please no.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 09:10 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 09:44 |
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Kurieg posted:Now I remember that Bedlamdan was the person who was defending Bellum Maga because while it was a terribly lovely fetish game that was written with one hand and edited by nobody, the main villain was "PATRIARCHY" and thus the book was good. I remember saying "it had everything I wanted in a game I never wanted to touch," or something along those lines. It was definitely terrible, yet I was also incredibly glad for its existence. A complicated feeling. Goa Tse-tung posted:and they do that because they are broke, not because of some insane conspiracy you believe I just assumed they were gullible or easily taken in, more than anything else.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 15:04 |
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Bedlamdan posted:My very first ban here was... less than a year go, actually, according to my rap sheet.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 15:39 |
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Nuns with Guns posted:Tbh 3e isn't terrible. At least it has enough heft to soundly beat the two of them with. It's more their loving massive delay due to scrapping and remaking mechanics over and over and shithattery on the forums whenever someone asked when that loving thing would be done.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 15:42 |
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Bedlamdan posted:I just assumed they were gullible or easily taken in, more than anything else. yeah one follows the other, if you dont have the time and money to verify/research
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 15:45 |
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Jesus christ loving STFU about mods Dan
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 15:47 |
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Bedlamdan posted:I do remember that Halloween Jack and FactsAreUseless had accounts there though, mostly for the sake of laughs and trolling. Also ThatOldTree under Plague of Hats.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 16:02 |
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RPGnet forum moderator Zeea drops an arclight strike on that CA Sulieman threadquote:I'm sorry Nicole Lindroos is having a bad birthday weekend. I've been waking up suddenly in a panic each night for the last several nights, and I ended up sobbing for a good five minutes yesterday over some of this stuff. I've already decided I'm probably completely leaving this industry and I'm going to need to pull back from the hobby that was a defining element of my life for two-thirds of the time I've been alive. Apparently, "mealy-mouthed motherfuckers" are a protected group at RPGnet, and they really don't want to do anything to make mealy-mouthed motherfuckers unwelcome there.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 17:44 |
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Watching the RPGNet mods trying to institute a policy that lets people call out the terrible people in the hobby/industry while hewing to "don't make personal attacks" is aggravatingly depressing.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 17:56 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:Watching the RPGNet mods trying to institute a policy that lets people call out the terrible people in the hobby/industry while hewing to "don't make personal attacks" is aggravatingly depressing.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 17:59 |
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Well, they did just redo the rules, but it's still the same basic idea that a direct insult is the Worst Crime, regardless of what the person being insulted has done.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:01 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:Watching the RPGNet mods trying to institute a policy that lets people call out the terrible people in the hobby/industry while hewing to "don't make personal attacks" is aggravatingly depressing. this is the product of the most brokebrained people i have seen on the internet so far. i'm trying to understand the torturous logical puzzles you would have to solve in order to determine whether a post broke one of the seventeen-point byzantine laws that you have created to ensure that no one can have any sort of catharsis but gently caress that
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:02 |
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rpgnet moderation is an amazing example of the worst of civility discourse norms combined with a complete lack of accountability.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:05 |
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Someone should probably email the Cubicle 7 response to the CA Suleiman thing to Green Ronin with "Like this guys" on it as a note.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:13 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:Watching the RPGNet mods trying to institute a policy that lets people call out the terrible people in the hobby/industry while hewing to "don't make personal attacks" is aggravatingly depressing. Again, we just saw someone pick up a week's vacation because they criticized unspecified mealy-mouthed motherfuckers.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:13 |
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FMguru posted:Expecially since RPG designers and industry people actually are a special protected class on RPGnet, and even the slightest whiff of personal criticism of them brings the banhammer down like thunder.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:14 |
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RPGnet feels like the the natural end point of the hobbyist dominated RPG game industry. It's a great thing that so many places from little indies to big names are full of people who were big fans before joining, and those people tend to bring great insight. The problem is there's almost no 'division' any more between consumers and the people making the stuff, there's very little 'business presence' that we get. So, now we have places like this where the writers and all are just part of the community, but they're a part of the community with cool special access and knowledge and that makes the community more valuable because it's a place you can interact with them directly. Video games and all are such sprawling things except for small indie things mostly you just have community reps and all, and those people are suuuuper trained/restricted to avoid problems. RPGnet genuinely feels like it values having the cool cred of 'we have all these writers who come here' more than anything else, so yea discussions like this become almost impossible because the mods are required to take this really sad handwringing 'guys let's not be MEAN about this systematic abusive behavior that was protected by company heads and had the accusers attacked by company reps' stance. I don't think they're bad guys and I certainly don't think any of them are somehow PRO sexual assault or whatever, but I think they do have their values kinda askew.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:22 |
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Let's keep in mind it's a site built around pretending to be loving elves, and that for the most part the worst posters have been people who truly believe liking the wrong edition of a game is worth making death threats over. RPG.net has and is taking too long to recognize that's not the only kind of discussion happening and that you can't moderate all those discussions the same way, but they're a niche hobbyist site run primarily by unpaid volunteers in their spare time. Twitter is supposedly multi-million dollar operation with full-time paid admins and they're not only far worse with double-secret probation bullshit and tone policing, they actively promote loving Nazis. The difference doesn't excuse or shield RPG.net from critique but have some loving perspective at least.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:26 |
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Let's keep in mind it's a site built around pretending to be loving elves, and that for the most part the worst posters have been people who truly believe liking the wrong edition of a game is worth making death threats over. Oh yea, 100% like I said I don't think this is the result of some moral failing or evil plot or whatever. For most of the history of the site there's nothing bad about maybe leaning a bit to favoring creators because hey it's nice to say they enjoy posting here and all because most of the conflicts were nerd on nerd arguments and the worst that would happen where that bias could be a problem is maybe sometimes a dev got a bit too passionate defending their work and someone gets called an elf-tard or whatever the cool insults were at that time.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:30 |
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sexpig by night posted:Oh yea, 100% like I said I don't think this is the result of some moral failing or evil plot or whatever. For most of the history of the site there's nothing bad about maybe leaning a bit to favoring creators because hey it's nice to say they enjoy posting here and all because most of the conflicts were nerd on nerd arguments and the worst that would happen where that bias could be a problem is maybe sometimes a dev got a bit too passionate defending their work and someone gets called an elf-tard or whatever the cool insults were at that time.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:34 |
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sexpig by night posted:RPGnet feels like the the natural end point of the hobbyist dominated RPG game industry. It's a great thing that so many places from little indies to big names are full of people who were big fans before joining, and those people tend to bring great insight. The problem is there's almost no 'division' any more between consumers and the people making the stuff, there's very little 'business presence' that we get. So, now we have places like this where the writers and all are just part of the community, but they're a part of the community with cool special access and knowledge and that makes the community more valuable because it's a place you can interact with them directly. Video games and all are such sprawling things except for small indie things mostly you just have community reps and all, and those people are suuuuper trained/restricted to avoid problems. Fast-forward 25 years, and now everyone is online and you can follow the instagram accounts and twitter feeds of literally anyone who is anyone and companies are pouring promotional material onto the internet and are thoroughly happy to engage their fans in a thousand and one channels. People "in-the-know" are no longer these rare and precious things that need to be protected, but these old-line communities like RPGnet still treat them as if they were, and that's the arrow that leads to the current situation.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:35 |
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rpg.net's pro-creator policy actually came around from the opposite- early on they were more wild west and people were openly insulting game designers for their game design decisions and it had a rep as being extremely unfriendly. So the current policy came from a "We can't keep doing this guys, come on" place.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:43 |
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I remember in particular an incident where someone said half-jokingly that he wanted to find Bruce Baugh at GenCon to take him to task for leaving talking plants out of Gamma World D20. What's worse, Baugh had some health problems that afford him few opportunities enjoy such public events. The guy came to his senses and apologized, but that's an example of how people could lose their poo poo at creators.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 18:57 |
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Hoooooly cow. I normally stay far, far away from cross-forum drama, but I have no idea what even all of this means, and how anyone could be expected to navigate this. https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?819225-New-Rules-For-Personal-Attacks-Accusations-and-Points-Related quote:1. You can't make personal attacks on people. No calling them insulting things, telling them to go gently caress themselves, attributing malicious tendencies or motives to them. Don't say bad things about people here. This applies to all posters present and past, even those that have been permanently banned, and everyone presently or previously involved in the tabletop gaming industry.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 19:18 |
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dwarf74 posted:Hoooooly cow. I normally stay far, far away from cross-forum drama, but I have no idea what even all of this means, and how anyone could be expected to navigate this. Also, they picked the absolute worst time to as a joke rename their infraction reporting system "Show Trials and Purges".
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 19:31 |
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Eh, RPGnet's policies evolved during a period in which more progressive types were largely complacent could content themselves with meaningful social progress even while doing little more than internet activism and shouting at people to check their privilege. Problem is, the poo poo going down is a lot more serious and requires more complicated responses than ones meant to keep outrage posturing within acceptable bounds. I've seen similar problems in a lot of sites. There's a lot of wailing and hand wringing about "what can we do?????" whether its about sexual harassment, Trump, shootings, or whatever else. And the answer is "quite a bit", but its all stuff that requires unpleasantness: doing boring poo poo like lit drops, confrontational things like protests but also ballot initiatives where dipshits try to start poo poo with you, sacrifices like donating money, time, and energy, and otherwise getting out of your comfort zone. It can mean cutting out people who you liked, because it turns out deep down they held some pretty ugly beliefs, and sometimes it means policing your own side, and telling jackasses that are only there for their own egos to gently caress off so some real work can get done. tl;dr - its been a bad year for everyone, including clicktivists. Places are having to move from talking a lot of poo poo to actually dealing with it, and that tends to involve a lot more confrontation and a lot less managing outrage dogpiles.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 19:37 |
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dwarf74 posted:Hoooooly cow. I normally stay far, far away from cross-forum drama, but I have no idea what even all of this means, and how anyone could be expected to navigate this.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:01 |
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Nihilarian posted:lmao are they still blaming the people who helped the victims for how this all went down Considering it feels like rules 5 and 9 were specifically written to appease the three people angry that a victim of someone vented to a friend about how people who defended her attacker were now getting good guy points by going after someone else yea pretty much
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:13 |
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Rule #5 isn't going to do anything except protect predators unless victims are brave enough to directly confront them. Which is bullshit. RIP RPG.net
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:15 |
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It's really dumb. If you catch someone ratfucking, just deal with it on an exception base then. Don't make a general rule about it because it's just going to create a chilling effect. EDIT: Really trying to create specific but generalized rules for situations like this is just doomed to failure. There does need to be cognizance of people weaponizing accusations - I mentioned Alison Rapp earlier. The same happened to Sarah Nyberg. But these generalized rules about who can or can't come forward does nothing to prevent or deter that, it just makes it harder on people who have been victimized. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 10, 2017 |
# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:18 |
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I touched the poop, it was about time to get banned from that shithole of a forum. e: Like holy poo poo, aren't they basically saying ''anonymous accusations are not allowed, you have to to 100% out yourself as a victim and have proof?'' ravenkult fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Nov 10, 2017 |
# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:29 |
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have you considered maybe telling them your interpretation of their rules and why they're bad, instead of just declaring you touched the poop
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:34 |
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who the gently caress are you, the thread police
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:36 |
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no, i'm just a guy saying your posts are lovely and you're being an idiot
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:36 |
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The previous five posts above mine are a pretty good tl;dr why the new rules are terrible.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:40 |
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ravenkult posted:I touched the poop, it was about time to get banned from that shithole of a forum. You have to present yourself as a victim or witness, or be linking to the words of someone presenting themselves as such, but you or whoever you're linking to don't have to do it under your own name. What Irlymvhir said about Matt is completely allowed, for example -- "I have firsthand knowledge of what he did." Fine. Links to Facebook conversation screenshots? Fine.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:47 |
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These rules are bad, and most of all seem to point to RPG.net trying to just solve this in one step by legislating new rules, and that's just a wrongheaded approach. Frankly the model of exhaustive rules just doesn't work for properly moderating forums, especially with the way things are going. They really need to break away from the legalistic approach and have proper community guidelines, and made clear distinctions in regards to different categories of discussion. They're trying to avoid arbitrary moderation because that's just as chilling and lovely, but they've made the rules so labyrinthine they can't be enforced except arbitrarily. ravenkult posted:The previous five posts above mine are a pretty good tl;dr why the new rules are terrible.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:48 |
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No, no. They GSF'd their way into this mess, and they'll GSF their way out.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:53 |
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Halloween Jack posted:No, no. They GSF'd their way into this mess, and they'll GSF their way out.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:55 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 09:44 |
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Halloween Jack posted:No, no. They GSF'd their way into this mess, and they'll GSF their way out. I confess confusion as to what GSF means.
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:55 |