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Condiv posted:love how he dodged this I don't read wampalords posts actually. Sorry. I don't think that FDW organization has any requirement to stay out of the primary though. The DNC and WVDP should, but there's no reason the FDW should. I would also support her putting her own stickers next to his. Edit- Oh no, is the federation for democratic women sexist for not support Swearingen? Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 19:04
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Nevvy Z posted:Look at your continued lack of reading comprehension.  jon joe posted:Where can I️ go for interesting and honest discussion about the leftist-liberal divide Well kindof difficult when libs are blatantly dishonest. I mean condiv and I in support have repeatedly asked about Manchin ties to Drug makers and we have gotten no answerfrom either jefferson or nezzy.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:13
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Nevvy Z posted:I don't read wampalords posts actually. Sorry. Well since you're never going to read this, gently caress you too, you gigantic piece of poo poo.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:14
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Why is there an argument about stickers?
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Nov 10, 2017 19:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Why is there an argument about stickers? CORRUPTION!
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Nov 10, 2017 19:24
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Why is there an argument about stickers? Condiv is being himself and nevvy is a moron.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:25
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Why is there an argument about stickers? Nevvy and JC are being dumb as usual and can't understand how bad the dem establishment casually putting their finger on the scales looks nowadays.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:28
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Look at all these people who don't want the Democratic Federation for Women to be allowed to disagree with them.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:32
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Cerebral Bore posted:Nevvy and JC are being dumb as usual and can't understand how bad the dem establishment casually putting their finger on the scales looks nowadays. twodot fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 19:33
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I also am totally fine with entrenched blue dogs having every institutional advantage available to them employed in the fight against people who would be an unequivocal/categorical improvement were they elected. The Party Must Be Preserved.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:33
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Crowsbeak posted:
Are Jefferson and Nezzy people of any importance, or just posters in this thread?
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Nov 10, 2017 19:58
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Nevvy Z posted:Look at all these people who don't want the Democratic Federation for Women to be allowed to disagree with them. Here's a hot take: Interest groups are good when they push for good things. But when they push for bad things, they're bad. I know, I just love courting controversy.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:01
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Condiv posted:i wonder why centrists feel the need to defend joe manchin, a man whose family is currently making epipens unaffordably expensive. do they just hate people with allergies? I don’t have allergies and I invested in companies that sell Epipens, this is my evil plot to make enough money to maybe buy a house before I’m 40.  Edit: serious answer gently caress Manchin.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:11
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Lightning Knight posted:Edit: serious answer gently caress Manchin.  I support the right of non party political organizations to express their support of him. Doesn't mean I like the guy.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:36
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Nevvy Z posted:CORRUPTION! Cerebral Bore posted:Nevvy and JC are being dumb as usual and can't understand how bad the dem establishment casually putting their finger on the scales looks nowadays. twodot posted:I mean on the surface I don't think they are incorrect that there's very little evidence an entity anyone should care about is responsible for the stickers. It's just strange the level of effort they've put into simultaneously insisting that we can't possibly know who did the stickers and also that it is completely normal and good for the national and local party to support incumbents during a primary. (edit: I guess and also that the primary, the time where the establishment of the party has direct control of the election and apparently has an affirmative duty to support the establishment of the party, is the time to kick out the establishment of the party) I see. Thanks for the clarification!
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Nov 10, 2017 20:37
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Nevvy Z posted:
too bad that's not what's happened here, and your insistence on trying to pretend it is kinda makes it obvious you do. either that or you're sexist and don't think a female politician has any idea what she's talking about
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Nov 10, 2017 20:39
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twodot posted:I mean on the surface I don't think they are incorrect that there's very little evidence an entity anyone should care about is responsible for the stickers. It's just strange the level of effort they've put into simultaneously insisting that we can't possibly know who did the stickers a I'm only arguing this part and I don't think it's taking very much effort. But we know who it could have been. The FDW. They can support whoever they want, unless that person isn't leftist enough apparently. USPOL: everyone who disagrees with anything we say is a liberal, and the enemy, and should be purged from the earth. Also uspol: Why won't anyone come out of the trump thread to talk to us. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 20:53
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Nevvy Z posted:I'm only arguing this part and I don't think it's taking very much effort. But we know who it could have been. The FDW. They can support whoever they want, unless that person isn't leftist enough apparently. USPOL has a hive mind? Wow.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:USPOL has a hive mind? Wow. As much of one as "liberals" and "centrists". No True Uspolster
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Nov 10, 2017 21:00
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Condiv posted:too bad that's not what's happened here, and your insistence on trying to pretend it is kinda makes it obvious you do. either that or you're sexist and don't think a female politician has any idea what she's talking about I’m not gonna lie I more or less agree with Condiv at this point. The primary should be fair and unbiased, though it will be a shame if we lose the seat. Manchin is poo poo though, and Virginia proved leftists can win in Republican states.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:01
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Nevvy Z posted:As much of one as "liberals" and "centrists". No True Upholster
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Nov 10, 2017 21:01
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Paula Swearengin posted:Can somebody tell me who is held accountable for @wvdemocrats & @WVFDW for promoting my opponent during a primary at a party hosted event? nevvy: who could be responsible for this? i just don't see how anyone could figure this out. it could've been the republicans!!
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Nov 10, 2017 21:04
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Condiv posted:nevvy: who could be responsible for this? i just don't see how anyone could figure this out. it could've been the republicans!! It could be a Manchin supporter or someone from his campaign doing the rounds before the event started, rather than someone with any of the listed organizations.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:05
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Lightning Knight posted:I’m not gonna lie I more or less agree with Condiv at this point. The primary should be fair and unbiased, though it will be a shame if we lose the seat. Manchin is poo poo though, and Virginia proved leftists can win in Republican states. prepare to be assimilated by the hive mind Absurd Alhazred posted:It could be a Manchin supporter or someone from his campaign doing the rounds before the event started, rather than someone with any of the listed organizations. it's still a party hosted function, and they are responsible for the table settings. trying to say "it could've been some random normie!!" doesn't jibe. the party would very certainly have removed place settings if they were endorsing a republican (oh wait these were)
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Nov 10, 2017 21:05
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Condiv posted:nevvy: who could be responsible for this? i just don't see how anyone could figure this out. it could've been the republicans!! Read the thread. Nevvy Z posted:I don't think that FDW organization has any requirement to stay out of the primary though. The DNC and WVDP should, but there's no reason the FDW should.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:05
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Nevvy Z posted:Read the thread. did you actually read the tweet? cause the party was hosted by..... the WVDP. and they are responsible for the poo poo that goes on at their events
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Nov 10, 2017 21:08
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It could be a Manchin supporter or someone from his campaign doing the rounds before the event started, rather than someone with any of the listed organizations. Could be, but in that case they ought to be removed if it's a party event. That nobody of the arrangers apparently even realized this is kinda bad in itself.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:10
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also, it's p hilarious that the wvfdw is endorsing an anti-choice man over a pro-choice woman
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Nov 10, 2017 21:11
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Condiv posted:also, it's p hilarious that the wvfdw is endorsing an anti-choice man over a pro-choice woman 
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Nov 10, 2017 21:13
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http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Joe_Manchin_III_Abortion.htm vs https://newrepublic.com/article/142774/its-time-west-virginia-rise-up-qa-paula-swearengin
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Nov 10, 2017 21:15
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Jesus Christ.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:17
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Nevvy Z posted:
I mean, you're totally correct about this not really fitting into the "Democratic Establishment being biased against the left" narrative, but it's also totally reasonable to attack organizations/people for supporting politicians you think are bad. Lightning Knight posted:I’m not gonna lie I more or less agree with Condiv at this point. The primary should be fair and unbiased, though it will be a shame if we lose the seat. Manchin is poo poo though, and Virginia proved leftists can win in Republican states. I don't really mean this as any sort of attack or anything, but I find it kind of funny that I'm actually somewhat taking Nevvy's side on something that you're disagreeing with him about, since I usually find that you err a bit too much towards giving the "anti-leftist liberal" (for lack of a better term) side the benefit of the doubt in arguments like this (just to be clear, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, and it's obvious your intentions are good). I don't think it's really any sign of establishment Democratic bias if these stickers weren't actually placed there by the DNC or something, and even if they were people pointed out in the other thread that it isn't unusual for the incumbent to receive party support. All this being said, I still think the group who placed the stickers should be criticized simply on the basis of Manchin being a bad politician, even if this isn't part of some greater establishment bias narrative. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 23:31
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Ytlaya posted:I mean, you're totally correct about this not really fitting into the "Democratic Establishment being biased against the left" narrative, but it's also totally reasonable to attack organizations/people for supporting politicians you think are bad. I agree with condiv pretty much.  Keep the primary free of endorsements or scale tipping from the DNC or other national groups affiliated with the DNC, and make sure all other endorsements or contributions can be tracked to an organization that can be held accountable. Keeping a seat safe for an incumbent is theoretically a good move, but it hasn't exactly paid dividends in the past.
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Nov 10, 2017 23:58
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I think it's okay for a party to stand for something, and therefore for its machinery to have some standards as to who gets to represent it. Otherwise you end up with a Blue Dog/IDC situation where a party is the majority but not really.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:04
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JeffersonClay posted:all those establishment stickers crushing the revolution just make me want to puke If you don't think institutional support, money, and connections introduce any unfair bias into a primary election, then why not just agree to reform them? You're literally giving up nothing according to you yet you fight so hard against it🤔
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Nov 11, 2017 01:15
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I think it's okay for a party to stand for something, and therefore for its machinery to have some standards as to who gets to represent it. Otherwise you end up with a Blue Dog/IDC situation where a party is the majority but not really. The party is the people who make it up, not the leadership. If a candidate can't get majority support from the voters in a fair primary and must be foisted onto the people by a cadre of party leaders making decisions in smoke-filled rooms then in what sense can that candidate even be said to "represent the party"? He certainly isn't representing the people making up the party who by definition would have preferred someone else. Also realistically all of the rigging is done in order to foist Blue Dogs like Manchin on us and destroy the Democratic legacy of FDR and Truman rather than to preserve any of the ideals the party stands for, your post is literally the opposite of reality.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:03
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VitalSigns posted:The party is the people who make it up, not the leadership. If a candidate can't get majority support from the voters in a fair primary and must be foisted onto the people by a cadre of party leaders making decisions in smoke-filled rooms then in what sense can that candidate even be said to "represent the party"? He certainly isn't representing the people making up the party who by definition would have preferred someone else. I mean, currently we have the worst of both worlds, and that has to do with the machinery of the party having zero accountability towards the membership, and therefore their foisting their will on individual races is not appropriate. However, I don't think the solution is to force them to back off and let local races take care of themselves. The solution is to force the party structure to be accountable to the membership as a whole, and to thereby set up a platform, and then require adherence to that platform by whoever is running as a Democrat.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:10
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franken endorsed manchin lol
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Nov 11, 2017 06:31
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R. Guyovich posted:franken endorsed manchin lol Eugh.
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Nov 11, 2017 06:32
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VitalSigns posted:If you don't think institutional support, money, and connections introduce any unfair bias into a primary election, then why not just agree to reform them? It’s a remarkably similar mindset to the establishment Dems’ argument during the DNC chair election: “Oh come on, it doesn’t matter if Perez or Ellison gets the job! It doesn’t MEAN anything! ...wait, what? If it’s meaningless, just give it to Ellison? What are you, CRAZY?!”
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Nov 11, 2017 06:46
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