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TetsuoTW posted:What a load of condescending wank. He's not wrong.
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Nov 11, 2017 16:35
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teagone posted:He's not wrong. He hardly said much of anything
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Nov 11, 2017 16:45
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Super Fan posted:He hardly said much of anything Agreed. I just said aficionados of anything generally have different tastes and appreciation points.
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Nov 11, 2017 16:49
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^ howdy. They said that people's first impressions of a film are largely determined by how well it meets their expectations, and that's why TDK, the film in which Bale's Batman largely acts out the power fantasy of Batman straight, was more well-received than TDKR, a film which repeatedly subverts our expectations of a Batman film (Bale is aging, he's physically worn, his opponents aren't criminals but popular revolutionaries).
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Nov 11, 2017 16:49
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Darko posted:Ask people who like TDK the most how they thought things like score (weakest of the 3, with dog chases cars being the large standout and great, but not quite as rich throughout), cinematography (weakest of the 3; not as beautiful as Rises, not as varied as Begins), or other technical aspects were better than the other two, and many will just cross eyes - which is kind of the difference between this forum and other opinions. Nobody cares about movie scores. Most people wouldn't care that one movie has better cinematography than another, not to mention that sounds subjective as gently caress. What people do care about is a plot that makes at least a little bit of sense. TDKR did subvert my expectations because I went in expecting a movie at least as good or better than TDK and instead I got... that. I spent the whole movie wondering if I was crazy for thinking it was dumb until I got to the very end with the Robin reveal, then I realized that no, this actually does suck.
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Nov 11, 2017 16:52
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People don't actually care if the plot makes sense, c.f Luke jumping down the shaft in Empire Strikes Back, the car flying off at the end of Grease, Pikachu coming back to life at the end of the Pokemon movie. All hugely successful.
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Nov 11, 2017 16:56
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Nobody cares about movie scores. Most people wouldn't care that one movie has better cinematography than another, not to mention that sounds subjective as gently caress. What people do care about is a plot that makes at least a little bit of sense. TDKR did subvert my expectations because I went in expecting a movie at least as good or better than TDK and instead I got... that. I spent the whole movie wondering if I was crazy for thinking it was dumb until I got to the very end with the Robin reveal, then I realized that no, this actually does suck. That's not actually explaining anything though. That's just an adjective. WHY did it suck? Wht did the plot make no sense? If you don't give an actual thoughtful perspective in discussion, how can one gain appreciation in any manner? (Even with thoughtful negatives of how things are done wrong - it raises appreciation for when other films do things right.) For example, I'll explain why I appreciated the Robin reveal. Im a movie that purposely included a wide range of many aspects and tales of Batman, from standard continuity, to his most famous Elseworlds, to Adam West, etc., and answered the question of how this general character can succeed, creating a character that combined aspects of Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd and simply naming him Robin, to encapsulate all (and it works as a reveal, as people realize after the fact that hes been carrying on the Robin role the entire film), is a good companion to that. I liked that, personally.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:03
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josh04 posted:People don't actually care if the plot makes sense, c.f Luke jumping down the shaft in Empire Strikes Back, the car flying off at the end of Grease, Pikachu coming back to life at the end of the Pokemon movie. All hugely successful. ash was the one who came back to life, you fool
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Nov 11, 2017 17:07
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Also a score in a film is part of the plot when done well; and its a major part of the film dialogue and plot (along with the cinematography) in the Nolan Batfilms. There's an important reason why the same cue as young Bruce in the well comes into play and turns into the new "Rise" theme when Bruce is reborn and rises out of the (Lazarus) pit. That kind of auditory storytelling is important for show, don't tell filmaking, that, yes, many people don't (actively) recognize.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:09
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Brother Entropy posted:ash was the one who came back to life, you fool Whoops. Pikachu's the one with the magic tears, then, right?
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Nov 11, 2017 17:14
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Pikachu dies in one of the Pokemon X/Y movies
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Nov 11, 2017 17:21
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Darko posted:Also a score in a film is part of the plot when done well; and its a major part of the film dialogue and plot (along with the cinematography) in the Nolan Batfilms. There's an important reason why the same cue as young Bruce in the well comes into play and turns into the new "Rise" theme when Bruce is reborn and rises out of the (Lazarus) pit. That kind of auditory storytelling is important for show, don't tell filmaking, that, yes, many people don't (actively) recognize. Rises is also fun to watch if you approach it in the mindset that Bruce actually dies in the pit, and all the insane poo poo that happens afterward with him "saving the world" is just his power fantasy playing out as he slowly dies. The Nolan series is great about how it gradually proves the point that a guy dressing up as a bat and beating up criminals is actually a really bad idea and could lead to really bad things. There wouldn't have been a roided-out strongman and an insane scion running around with a nuclear bomb in Gotham if Bruce hadn't gone to "find himself" in the Himalayas.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:36
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Timby posted:Rises is also fun to watch if you approach it in the mindset that Bruce actually dies in the pit, and all the insane poo poo that happens afterward with him "saving the world" is just his power fantasy playing out as he slowly dies. Ra's was always going to bring down Gotham.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:05
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Kinda goes with the theme of escalation. Batman is the fault of the League of Shadows for multiple reasons; spreading poverty through Gotham that turns people to crime and lets gangs thrive, leading to the death of the Waynes, and then training Bruce while making unwise assumptions about his own personal ideas of justice. And their cockamamie scheme to destroy Gotham with a chemical weapon just ends up proving the crazy billionaire right about the need for a bat-themed vigilante to deal with crazy people in costumes. In effect, their economic warfare, unilateral acts of terror, and willingness to train anyone who they think might be useful in various dangerous arts ends up both radicalising a young man and giving him the means and opportunity to cause massive damage to him as retaliation for the depredations on his home. Yes, in this analogy the League of Shadows is the US deep state and Batman is a terrorist.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:28
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Timby posted:Rises is also fun to watch if you approach it in the mindset that Bruce actually dies in the pit, and all the insane poo poo that happens afterward with him "saving the world" is just his power fantasy playing out as he slowly dies. Or just the whole trilogy if you replace Bane pit with funeral childhood batcave pit.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:35
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what if like bruce wayne is the mask and batman is the dude underneath?
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Nov 11, 2017 18:39
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SleepCousinDeath posted:what if like bruce wayne is the mask and batman is the dude underneath? thats jim carrey
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Nov 11, 2017 18:45
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dublish posted:The God of War assuming the form of a mundane British imperialist is actually pretty Good. Considering what the British Empire ruled, yeah it is a fit.
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Nov 11, 2017 20:10
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josh04 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaRYQlsjy4&t=115s I love Bane's voice. Tom Hardy is excellent at comedy and I'm glad Nolan brought humor into it. poo poo, I think after Begins they decided the concept of Batman is so retarded Bale was also doing his voice as comedy and they knew. EDIT: Bane sounds like a cranky old high society man wanting to put youngin's in their place. "Oh, sonny, you think you know stuff? I was born in STUFF, MOLDED BY IT, UPHILL BOTH WAYS, whippersnapper!" Gatts fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 20:15
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Darko posted:That's not actually explaining anything though. That's just an adjective. WHY did it suck? Wht did the plot make no sense? If you don't give an actual thoughtful perspective in discussion, how can one gain appreciation in any manner? (Even with thoughtful negatives of how things are done wrong - it raises appreciation for when other films do things right.) There's the theme of haves vs have-nots that doesn't really go anywhere. Selena complains about rich people but she's no revolutionary, she's just a self-interested thief. Bane talks about giving Gotham back to its people, but his curfew hurts rich and poor alike and his ultimate plan is to nuke the whole city. There's this prison escape that is supposed to be a metaphor for rebirth, I suppose. Everything about that part is too weird. Bruce is cured of a spinal injury with a slap to the back? He has to escape by free-climbing his way up a pit. Where are the prison guards who should have stopped him? Why don't the prisoners collaborate to build a ladder or something? Why wasn't Bruce's escape reported to Bane? The League of Shadows has about as much depth as Cobra from GI Joe. They have no stated ideology and their objectives are murky. They're just there to shoot people and blow up poo poo. Gordon needs to keep Harvey Dent's heel turn secret for some bizarre reason. It goes back to TDK. Batman takes the fall for Harvey's murders because it didn't occur to him that they could just blame the Joker who's been killing people left and right. He does it because if Harvey's reputation is ruined, society will give up the fight against crime for some reason. Bane reads Gordon's diary aloud, exposing the cover-up, and it's made to look like a big deal but absolutely nothing comes out of it. Gordon is not fired, Batman gets a loving statue, and Gotham goes on being low-crime. Bruce keeps trusting Selena even though she screws him over on three occasions. The worst part for me was not the Robin reveal but the reveal that Bruce is alive and in Italy. It's terrible because it completely invalidates Alfred's farewell to Bruce. That was a beautiful scene, a nice performance by Michael Caine. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 21:34
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Kurzon posted:The worst part for me was not the Robin reveal but the reveal that Bruce is alive and in Italy. It's terrible because it completely invalidates Alfred's farewell to Bruce. That was a beautiful scene, a nice performance by Michael Caine. This for real, they couldn't at least have made that like a post credits scene or something? The best part for me is when Catwoman tells Batman that he doesn't owe these people anything anymore and it cuts to his reaction and like the suit IRL is really hard to breathe in and constricting and causes this total fourth wall break. The helmet is a little off-center from his face it's not even on straight, he can't breathe through his nose and Nolan holds the shot for an extra two seconds more than you'd expect and it just completely breaks it and you see a tired not able to breathe Christian Bale feeling unhappy he's been in this suit for six hours today instead of Batman.  The other best part is when Bane kills the Roland Daggett character (they changed his first name or something IIRC?) and the sound/editing of the scene makes it seem Bane killed him by gently caressing his hair....TO DEATH!
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Nov 11, 2017 21:56
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Neo Rasa posted:This for real, they couldn't at least have made that like a post credits scene or something? It's still a better Batman costume than the one that makes Affleck look fat
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Nov 11, 2017 22:02
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It's not bad, it's one of the few Batman suits where the actors can turn their head at all. I think the new fighting style they invented for the Nolan movies that consisted of elbowing and punching people was built around the suit also. I forget if he could actually kick in it. IIRC Michael Keaton got some kind of leg injury from the one time you see him kick someone in Batman '89 because of the suit. Speaking of costumes making actors look fat, I kind of hate the Marvel "house style" for helmets. Like Michael Cox and Chis Evans are not particularly pudgy people at all, but look at what their respective helmets do in DD season 2 and Avengers 1.
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Nov 11, 2017 22:34
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Neo Rasa posted:This for real, they couldn't at least have made that like a post credits scene or something? why would that have made a difference?
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Nov 11, 2017 22:37
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josh04 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaRYQlsjy4&t=115s How sad is it that there are no sophisticated or awe-inspiring scenes like either of these in the DCEU films. viral spiral fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 22:39
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Begins looks so good.Brother Entropy posted:why would that have made a difference? It'd be a fun extra thing instead of an "actually nothing matters" right after he gets a statue.
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Nov 11, 2017 22:46
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Neo Rasa posted:It'd be a fun extra thing instead of an "actually nothing matters" right after he gets a statue. i don't really understand why coming after the credits changes that, though before or after it's still an epilogue showing that bruce survived and is attempting to live his own life apart from gotham and batman
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Nov 11, 2017 22:54
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Brother Entropy posted:i don't really understand why coming after the credits changes that, though Okay.
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Nov 11, 2017 23:02
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It's a statue for Batman. Batman is dead. Not Bruce Wayne who for all we know is living under a different identity. JGL is hopefully more like a Nightwing, his own hero with Wayne's resources.
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Nov 11, 2017 23:26
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Interview with JL cinematographer Fabian Wagner.quote:He is a huge fan of the original comic books and the characters and has a fantastic knowledge of that world. We chatted for an hour or so about his general ideas for the production, moving the look forwards. Zack wanted to get away from the stylized, desaturated, super-high contrast looks of other films in the franchise. I am someone who likes to light very naturally, so that fitted my work ethic. It had already been decided that Justice League would shoot on 35mm film, and although I had not shot celluloid for several years, I was excited by the prospect.
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Nov 12, 2017 00:44
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viral spiral posted:How sad is it that there are no sophisticated or awe-inspiring scenes like either of these in the DCEU films.  Shut the gently caress up.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfoNXQDWBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixaEnZHtH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlINHSnUx9k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFiv7_33TM
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Nov 12, 2017 01:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoim_wTR1fU
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Nov 12, 2017 01:03
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Vintersorg posted:
You forgot the "Martha!" scene you tool.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:05
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viral spiral posted:You forgot the "Martha!" scene you tool. You're a moron.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:07
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A shame the color grading looks like it got changed, from the trailers we've seen. I hope it's not the case in the final film because that would stink if it were. I appreciated the contrasts and it made a lot of scenes look really striking.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:14
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Jimbot posted:A shame the color grading looks like it got changed, from the trailers we've seen. I hope it's not the case in the final film because that would stink if it were. I appreciated the contrasts and it made a lot of scenes look really striking. Another early critic response says that there is much that the trailers did not reveal. I'm hoping the final movie do look good because I saw some flashes of cool-looking images in one of the 30 second TV spots.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:28
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...I'm most interested in seeing Cyborg's part in the film tbh. I know what I'm getting with all of the other actors and their roles. With like no competition and the early buzz as positive as you can ask for for a DC release, this movie is gonna cruuush it
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Nov 12, 2017 01:36
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Neo Rasa posted:The other best part is when Bane kills the Roland Daggett character (they changed his first name or something IIRC?) and the sound/editing of the scene makes it seem Bane killed him by gently caressing his hair....TO DEATH! That’s 2 movies now where Ben Mendelsohn gets dunked on by a tall scary guy in a mask. 
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Nov 12, 2017 02:12
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Gonz posted:That’s 2 movies now where Ben Mendelsohn gets dunked on by a tall scary guy in a mask. Tom Hardy isn't tall, and I can't tell if I love or hate how obvious the tricks to hide his height are in that scene.
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Nov 12, 2017 02:18
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The MSJ posted:Zack wanted to get away from the stylized, desaturated, super-high contrast looks of other films in the franchise. pre:Warner Brothers movie pitch lab, int:
ZACK SNYDER
What if Justice League... but in colour?
EXECUTIVES APPLAUD
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Nov 12, 2017 02:18
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