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Dude Frozen's a good film and I look forward to the short. Coco apparently isn't that good though, so I guess it's the Book of Life v2 that they were afraid of being seen as.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:11
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Pick posted:Dude Frozen's a good film and I look forward to the short. Coco apparently isn't that good though, so I guess it's the Book of Life v2 that they were afraid of being seen as. Okay, thank you for your opinion, I will take it into account and redouble my enthusiasm for the film given that you hated Inside Out.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:14
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21 Muns posted:Okay, thank you for your opinion, I will take it into account and redouble my enthusiasm for the film given that you hated Inside Out. Yeah, Inside Out is a terrible film. I completely stand by my opinion that it's lazy, superficial, and incredibly cheap.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:16
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Pick posted:Yeah, Inside Out is a terrible film. I completely stand by my opinion that it's lazy, superficial, and incredibly cheap. Wait a minute, just to be clear, just to make sure I'm remembering the right person, you also hate Up, right? That is another opinion you have?
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Nov 11, 2017 03:32
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I hate everything after the initial essentially independent short in Up.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:38
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I mean I'm not hard to figure out, 90% of my enjoyment of family media is its role as didactic entertainment, and therefore most of my score is contingent on a film's choice and execution of its themes. It's also why I hate HTTYD2; that film has no god drat theme and no idea what it is trying to say. Films that land the gently caress out of their themes include: The Last Unicorn, Rango, Kung Fu Panda, When Marnie was There, Tangled, and Lilo & Stitch.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:42
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Pick posted:I hate everything after the initial essentially independent short in Up. i'm gonna be completely honest here for a second the first five minutes of up is very moving and sets the stage very well for the movie that comes after that but the rest of the movie is even better and the actual moment that makes me cry is Carl flipping through the scrapbook and then embracing Dug as his dog because Dug is the best
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Nov 11, 2017 03:43
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Pick posted:I hate everything after the initial essentially independent short in Up. This is a common but incredibly misguided opinion, and I'm kind of sad that it's such an easy opinion to find while a refutation of it isn't. To make it very, very brief: the beginning of Up is not "an essentially independent short"; it's intended to operate in conjunction with the rest of the film and separating it from the rest of the film leaves you with something emotionally and thematically incomplete. It has a climax and leaves you feeling very strongly, but that very strong feeling is depression, you feel strongly because it leaves you empty, but the entire point of this is to set you off on the emotional arc of getting past that. Hope this helps, PS, your breakdown of Bee Movie is an absolute riot, a real forums classic, thank you for producing that good content even though you have so many bad Pixar opinions.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:44
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A dog with big eyes who wubs you is just cheap, cheap, cheap. Like all of Toy Story 3, another bad film. e: Actually, the best part of Up is the emotional climax when he realizes his wife wanted him to still feel free. HOWEVER, the movie doesn't trust that this is satisfying, so they murder a mentally ill person on an airship.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:44
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More theme-landers: ParaNorman LEGO Batman Corpse Bride (score heavily reduced by everything else about it) Meet the Robinsons Princess Mononoke The question being, generally: + What is the film trying to say? + Do the events in the film credibly validate this statement? LEGO Batman is actually a particularly good example where every single arc in the film ties to its core statement about growing up by reaching out and connecting with others. My question for films like Inside Out is: + What is this film actually trying to say? + Does most of the runtime even relate to this? To the extent that it does, does it actually support what the film is saying? You can search my history in this thread where I lay out why I strongly thing the answer to the former is "It isn't actually sure" and "almost none because of an over-reliance on shortcuts in a poorly-defined environment". This was, incidentally, my biggest complaint about Bee Movie as well, although there it was ramped up to absurd extremes. Pick fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 03:48
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I found Corpse Bride to be trite and Victoria ends up being the only truly sympathetic character in the entire film.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:54
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Robindaybird posted:I found Corpse Bride to be trite and Victoria ends up being the only truly sympathetic character in the entire film. I think it ate my freakin post, but yes, exactly. Emily thinks that because she suffered a tragedy that she is owed restitution. The climax of the film is her realizing that she's free to get square with her murderer, but Victor and by extension Victoria are victims of her entitlement. She has no right to ruin Victoria's life just because someone else ruined hers. She never gets to be a bride, and learns to let go. Victor is sort of a non-character. The theme is about Emily in relation to Victoria.
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Nov 11, 2017 03:59
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Pick posted:More theme-landers: Have you seen A Silent Voice yet
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Nov 11, 2017 04:10
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Pick posted:
“Sadness is a vital emotion that is separate from despair and becoming mature means realizing that being happy all the time is false and not sustainable and prevents growth or sympathy or dealing with problems” Pretty much the whole movie was about that. Either showing why you need sadness or what happens if you reject sadness or presenting an example of a nessisary sad thing in life.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:26
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Uh huh and how does the breakdown of hockey land or the bridge of Canadian boyfriends fit into that. What the gently caress does sadness even do. It’s implied to have no inherent meaning except to get pity from others.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:21
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it's almost like a complete brokebrain with the self-awareness of a potato isn't going to click with a movie about mental health
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Nov 11, 2017 08:27
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Sadness and happiness are both the irrelevant domain of weak kneed liberals and a distraction from the only true objective of any conscious being: the annihilation of accumulated capital and the establishment of a workers' state.
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Nov 11, 2017 10:54
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Pick posted:Yeah, Inside Out is a terrible film. I completely stand by my opinion that it's lazy, superficial, and incredibly cheap. Once again, Pick has my back. Thank you, noted good opinion haver Pick.
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Nov 11, 2017 12:52
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I dont like Up even incuding the opening story set up sequence everyone goes gaga over. The film is a complete mess for me and having an opening sequence that has always felt less genuine and more a manipulitive “be sad now” sign doesnt absolve it. And everything to do with the villain is terrible. Barudak fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 13:19
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Pick posted:Uh huh and how does the breakdown of hockey land or the bridge of Canadian boyfriends fit into that. What the gently caress does sadness even do. It’s implied to have no inherent meaning except to get pity from others. It's a pretty straightforward plot. She has a simple happy childhood, then encounters the first actually sad event in her life (moving away from everything she knows). She decides to reject sadness because she thinks constant happiness is the only right way to be and because she thinks it'll disappoint her parents so she pushes sadness out of her head and in doing so loses the ability to feel joy. She then reacts to every event with anger or disgust or fear and it causes the interests that formed the core of her personality to fall away. She is then saved by the fact she has a happy childish memory but at the same time can't move forward if she's weighed down by it. Sadness then saves the day by finally tainting the happy memories sad which stops the creeping shutdown and creates a new and more mature type of emotion that is both happy and sad and paves the way for her grown up multi feeling memories. Even canadian boyfriend is just a gag for the action scene but ties into the fact this is a movie about transitioning from a small child to an emotionally mature adult and that the fact maturing also involves sexuality. But she's still 12 so that for her is a very very mild interest in abstract boys.
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Nov 11, 2017 14:15
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A while back on this forum someone posted a very cogent criticism of Inside Out. It might have been Pick, not sure. I copied it cause I thought it was very well reasoned:quote:The film is trying to be an adventure film, and it's trying to be a metaphor. But the desire to be a metaphor undermines the action, and the action doesn't map to the metaphor. A lot of people in the animation industry also have issues with the film. The head of the animation program at Sheridan college said about the movie: "Inside Out contains a lot of good character comedy, inventive concepts and striking design. However, the dramatic logic of the film often gets broken under the weight of those things, and that's why I find the film unsatisfying. "
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Nov 11, 2017 16:26
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Counterpoint: Inside Out is good. Eat my rear end The Head of the Animation Program at Sheridan College 
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Nov 11, 2017 16:43
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Fangz posted:Have you seen A Silent Voice yet It also features Stephen Universe as a guest star.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:22
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It's dumb to joke about people on the internet having autism but it's amazing how often people on the internet's criticism of it is "they didn't explain how emotions work well enough". The D&D rules of bing bong are "It's sad to give up childhood things but it gives you the tools to move forward" the rules of getting home are "physical methods will always fail until you realize growing up involves a measure of sadness and that is okay and not something to fear"
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Nov 11, 2017 17:41
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Inside Out was such a bland movie that I'm surprised that there's such a passionate defense of it here. Really good casting, but everything else was deeply meh. I'd write up a more involved argument against it, but my memory of the film is basically a bunch of, "Oh, yeah, that thing also happened."
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Nov 11, 2017 18:26
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Just fir the record, Ccs, yes that was me. Thanks! 
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Nov 11, 2017 18:58
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The concept of internal logic is not something only autistics care about, owl, but it’s neat to see how rapidly after I’d admitted it that people are happy to use it to dismiss whatever I say 
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Nov 11, 2017 19:07
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Don't use autistic as an insult people, jesus christ how are we still having this discussion. For what it's worth I liked Inside Out but I'm easily swayed by interesting concepts even when the execution is flawed. It might be what's happening here, I don't know. I feel like a story about accepting that sadness is an healthy thing to have and to express is an important moral that we don't see often enough.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:55
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paradoxGentleman posted:Don't use autistic as an insult people, jesus christ how are we still having this discussion. Especially for guys - we're in a culture that heavily discourages open expressions of emotion because for men it's "Unmasculine" to be sensitive, and women because they're 'being hysterical and causing a scene'. Emotional Constipation is a thing people get taught is normal and expected, instead of what it is: unhealthy and even toxic.
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Nov 11, 2017 20:59
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I think the problem with Inside Out is at the end of the day it's really specific to reduce the human mind to a series of discrete emotions operating in a kind of NASA control room surrounded by a denuded wasteland and I'm not sure its creators appreciated exactly what they were saying by portraying it as such.
porfiria fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 23:18
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porfiria posted:I think the problem with Inside Out is at the end of the day it's really specific to reduce the human mind to a series of discrete emotions operating in a kind of NASA control room surrounded by a denuded wasteland and I'm not sure its creators appreciated exactly what they were saying by portraying it as such. It's Pixar, they tend to reduce fantastical ideas with complex systems into office-like bureaucracies. See: Coco, Monsters Inc., The Incredibles, Wall-E.
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Nov 12, 2017 00:32
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SatansBestBuddy posted:It's Pixar, they tend to reduce fantastical ideas with complex systems into office-like bureaucracies. Hey, write what you know.
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Nov 12, 2017 01:18
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my only emotion is joy and my brain is a failed civilisation of a thousand different joys all battling to kill each other and reign supreme
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Nov 12, 2017 01:52
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I don't think I could watch Inside Out a second time because I found it (ironically?) too emotionally draining. Riley losing her goofy nature to depression hit too close to home for me. 
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Nov 12, 2017 09:16
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As I said, my memory of the film isn't so great, but the problem may be that Riley isn't so much a character in the film, she's the setting. So her learning to develop healthy emotions isn't really the theme, it's plot. The theme's really about getting along with your co-workers, even if they aren't like you. Joy doesn't learn a lesson about sadness, she learns about Sadness, or more accurately, she learns to appreciate how the accountants at Dunder-Mifflin are just as important as the sales team.
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Nov 12, 2017 18:43
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I enjoyed it a lot, but like many other Pixar movie's it's disconcertingly corporate.
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Nov 12, 2017 18:45
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Where Up has a bit of a disconnect between its emotional core/message and the action/adventure vehicle of the story -- which personally, I don't find to be a major problem, especially after multiple viewings -- Inside Out basically has the same issue multiplied by 10. I still like it, but more for a few good parts, rather than the whole.
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Nov 12, 2017 18:58
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I still love Up after multiple viewings, and while I liked Inside Out the first time, I couldn't even get through it a second time. It just felt kind of fake. Count me in on the Coco looking meh thing too, Pixar hasn't been doing it for me the least few years which is a bummer. I have no real issue with the plot or writing in movies like Kubo and Book of Life though, so some part of me must be easily swayed by pretty visuals or a good enough central concept. Those films felt like that had waaaaay more fun and heart and wonder than anything out of Pixar in over five years. The last movie by them to make me feel a thing was Brave. I probably like Brave more than most people.
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Nov 12, 2017 19:19
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Sir Lemming posted:Where Up has a bit of a disconnect between its emotional core/message and the action/adventure vehicle of the story -- which personally, I don't find to be a major problem, especially after multiple viewings -- Inside Out basically has the same issue multiplied by 10. I still like it, but more for a few good parts, rather than the whole. I dunno, I always felt that the emotional core of Up went together really, really well with the adventure. Like, it didn't matter that he's only going on the adventure of his dreams later in life, that was kinda the whole point? His life spent together with Ellie was one adventure and now he's going on another, and possibly more in the future.
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Nov 12, 2017 19:58
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Ringing Bell (1978) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQt8CqVPNC4 is dope
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Nov 12, 2017 20:09
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