Absurd Alhazred posted:That doesn't require handing over parts of "Israel proper", though, which is what fool_of_sound is asserting. A legally legitimate settlement would, but that's not really in the works. Sovereignty is an issue to discuss though since Israel essentially demands any potential Palestinian state not have any, but this is a stupid angle to come at this point by.
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Nov 13, 2017 02:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Palestine would not be the only non-contiguous sovereign country, anyway. Quite a few countries have exclaves, Kaliningrad being the most famous one. With a third of their population? I'm sure you know this argument is disingenuous. Disinterested posted:A legally legitimate settlement would, but that's not really in the works. Sovereignty is an issue to discuss though since Israel essentially demands any potential Palestinian state not have any, but this is a stupid angle to come at this point by. My point is more that there is no reasonable agreement that would result in a viable Palestinian state at this point.
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Nov 13, 2017 02:39
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Kim Jong Il posted:Nothing I've said has indicated this, and I've indicated the direct opposite. Every state should have 100% open borders. In the interim, it's unfair to single out some countries for betraying this ideal paradigm and not others. Kim Jong Il posted:The only just solution to the refugee problem is financial compensation. Your want to keep the refugees out. Stop puking up empty platitudes, no one gives a poo poo about your "paper trail" or whatever the gently caress lol
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Nov 13, 2017 02:39
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fool_of_sound posted:With a third of their population? I'm sure you know this argument is disingenuous. No, what's disingenuous is pretending that territorial contiguity between the West Bank and Gaza is part of the obvious two-state solution when you have basically introduced this requirement yourself.
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Nov 13, 2017 02:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No, what's disingenuous is pretending that territorial contiguity between the West Bank and Gaza is part of the obvious two-state solution when you have basically introduced this requirement yourself. I absolutely am not the originator of that requirement. It has been a major component of Palestinian demands for decades. It's frankly bizarre that you are arguing otherwise. e: Anyway, even ignoring Gaza, Israel has zero interest in withdrawing from the West Bank or forfeiting what amounts to total control of Jerusalem. fool of sound fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 13, 2017 02:53
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fool_of_sound posted:I absolutely am not the originator of that requirement. It's not talking about taking up Israeli territory, it's talking about free passage between the separate territories. They reject Israel wanting the ability to limit movement between the two region, treating them as separate entities. Your first source and subsequent sources cite the 1967 borders. Here are the 1967 borders:  There is nothing physically connecting the West Bank and Gaza. There is no basis here for any land to be taken out of Israel proper to allow for a physical connection - again, this would mean that Israel would be split into two parts, according to you ceding its sovereignty. That's not the two-state solution.
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Nov 13, 2017 03:10
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It's not talking about taking up Israeli territory, it's talking about free passage between the separate territories. They reject Israel wanting the ability to limit movement between the two region, treating them as separate entities. Oh, I was misinterpreting, sorry.
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Nov 13, 2017 03:12
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fool_of_sound posted:Oh, I was misinterpreting, sorry. No worries, the terminology can be confusing. And at this point, as per your edit, I'm pretty sure the Israeli government's solutions, such as they express any, don't even involve keeping the Palestinian-controlled areas inside the West Bank contiguous, so it's kind of moot.
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Nov 13, 2017 03:23
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The 'territorial contiguity' issue is both about the passage issue AA cites but more significantly about the fact settlments and checkpoints have essentially rendered the west bank in to an archiapelago of Palestines intersected by the Israeli security apparatus.
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Nov 13, 2017 03:23
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Two state solution is never going to work.
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Nov 13, 2017 07:48
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At this point, the only thing that's going to work is global warming making the area uninhabitable, making it all moot.
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Nov 13, 2017 11:24
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I was really shocked to see this and that no one seems to be talking about it. https://canarymission.org/ This sketchy group (likely state-sponsored) has assembled hundreds of dossiers on pro-BDS college activists and is attempting to prevent them from getting future employment. These are just kids, and they're being targeted by this sophisticated, well-funded, high-tech lynching. It's incredibly sickening.
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Nov 15, 2017 04:19
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It's pure fascism.
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Nov 15, 2017 13:55
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Canary Mission is overzealous. Some of the people they profile actually are rabid antisemites and should be held accountable. But they take it too far; they tend to also profile anyone who speaks out against the occupation, even if they don't criticize Israel's existence or use Anti-Zionist language. For instance, this person is the president of her college's SJP chapter: https://canarymission.org/individuals/ayah-aly/ 
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Nov 16, 2017 04:33
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http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ehud-Barak-Im-most-fit-to-lead-514371quote:EHUD BARAK: I’M MOST FIT TO LEAD 
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Nov 16, 2017 04:36
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canary mission doesn't have a page on me so they've objectively failed
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Nov 16, 2017 04:47
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Jeb! meme deader than a two-state solution
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Nov 16, 2017 04:57
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The sad thing is that Barak probably would make a good PM and is just about the only Israeli politician with the balls to take bold action. But he has no chance to be elected, I don't know why that fool let himself be turned into a joke the past two decades.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:24
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The sad thing is that Barak probably would make a good PM and is just about the only Israeli politician with the balls to take bold action.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:26
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Lebanon.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:29
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 "eat my rear end big boy" "ehud my children are watching"
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Nov 16, 2017 08:48
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Wrong Ehud.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:52
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Lebanon.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:54
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Yes, my expectations of Israeli politicians are super low. I also don't share this whole "execution was botched" narrative but I think it's less important.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Wrong Ehud.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:31
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legit always thought that was a picture of ehud barak lol i am completely faceblind
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Nov 16, 2017 10:34
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when i was 6 my cousin asked me who my favourite spice girl was, i didn't care about the spice girls but wanted to be her favourite cousin so i said scary spice and she said why and i said because she looks like my mother. later when the spice girls broke up, i never quite grasped the details but apparently scary spice was bullying the red one or something look i don't know. anyway, it was a very emotional time for her and i remember her yelling at me "scary spice looks NOTHING like your mother! your mother isn't BLACK!" i was also naturally very excited to add to my ariel subfolder called "yaoi gaze"
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Nov 16, 2017 10:37
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so tbh i barely looked at the other guy
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Nov 16, 2017 10:39
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Nov 16, 2017 10:42
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noyes posted:canary mission doesn't have a page on me so they've objectively failed
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Nov 16, 2017 11:05
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The sad thing is that Barak probably would make a good PM and is just about the only Israeli politician with the balls to take bold action. Counterpoints: Geneva; Camp David; slaughtering Palestinian protestors after Sharon's visit to the Haram al-Sharif; bombing PA jails and police stations, thus making an all-out orgy of bloodshed that characterized the post-massacre, post-bombings portion of the 2nd Intifada an inevitability. He's a violent, unscrupulous racist just like Netanyahu; it's just that Netanyahu is more transparent.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:38
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FreshlyShaven posted:Counterpoints: Geneva; Camp David; slaughtering Palestinian protestors after Sharon's visit to the Haram al-Sharif; bombing PA jails and police stations, thus making an all-out orgy of bloodshed that characterized the post-massacre, post-bombings portion of the 2nd Intifada an inevitability. He's a violent, unscrupulous racist just like Netanyahu; it's just that Netanyahu is more transparent. Yes but he also did one good thing. How many living Israeli PMs can boast of that?
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Nov 16, 2017 17:53
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Nameless_Steve posted:Canary Mission is overzealous. Some of the people they profile actually are rabid antisemites and should be held accountable. But they take it too far; they tend to also profile anyone who speaks out against the occupation, even if they don't criticize Israel's existence or use Anti-Zionist language.
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Nov 16, 2017 20:23
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fool_of_sound posted:No two state solution is viable unless Israel not only cedes half of Jerusalem and all settlements in the West Bank, but parts of Israel proper as well. You clearly oppose all of those things as genocide, so your ostensible solution is hollow. The Palestinian Authority has agreed for swaps between Israel and the West Bank, it's not particularly controversial. I really don't have any opinion on giving them a dedicated corridor, but it both seems unnecessary, and pointless as the West Bank and Gaza are probably destined to separate ala Pakistan and Bangladesh. What you propose (in the sense that it is absolute certainty that Israel will trade parts of Galilee for Gush Etzion and Ma'ale Adumim) means that a peace deal is impossible, but I have not in any capacity claimed it would be "genocide". Genocide has a silly definition that doesn't correspond with what people actually think it is, but even under that dumb definition that wouldn't possibly apply to this otherwise bad idea. You need to come to terms with the fact that you virulently oppose peace. Nebalebadingdong posted:Your want to keep the refugees out. Stop puking up empty platitudes, no one gives a poo poo about your "paper trail" or whatever the gently caress lol I don't want to stop a peace deal because of insisting on something that will never be politically viable or logistically feasible. You also didn't engage with any of what I was actually arguing. I don't think Palestinians should have any say over Israeli law just as Israelis shouldn't have any say over Palestinian law. If they do something you don't like, you can recall the ambassador or whatever. The refugee issue was closed after the mass expulsion of Mizrahim. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 02:45
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"saying "i hate jews" in public is bad for your career" is something that all young professionals need to learn, but there are gentler ways to do it than becoming the target of an international smear campaign
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Nov 17, 2017 04:00
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Kim Jong Il posted:You need to come to terms with the fact that you virulently oppose peace. You’ve literally said in this thread that a Palestinian right of return and expulsion of Israeli settlers in the West Bank is genocidal. I’m phone posting now, but if you deny this I’ll go pull quotes later. A peace deal that is effectively a legitimized occupation will not in fact result in peace.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:16
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Isn’t the relevant precedent here West Berlin? Germans could drive between Berlin and the rest of West Germany, just on controlled-access roads enclosed by checkpoints.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:24
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Kim Jong Il posted:I don't want to stop a peace deal because of insisting on something that will never be politically viable or logistically feasible. You also didn't engage with any of what I was actually arguing. I don't think Palestinians should have any say over Israeli law just as Israelis shouldn't have any say over Palestinian law. If they do something you don't like, you can recall the ambassador or whatever. The refugee issue was closed after the mass expulsion of Mizrahim. The only thing in this blurb that's relevant is your declaration that accepting refugees isn't politically viable or logistically feasible. The rest is a smoke screen. Stop it.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:35
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Pirate Radar posted:Isn’t the relevant precedent here West Berlin? Germans could drive between Berlin and the rest of West Germany, just on controlled-access roads enclosed by checkpoints. In a sense that it reflects the restricted movement rights, yes.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:18
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/931686844315656193 How's that peace effort going, Jared?
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Nov 18, 2017 04:19
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