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Listen, I visited america once on a business trip and stopped by a walmart and went to a chain restaurant in the airport and one by my hotel and I can say for a fact americans have no good food.
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Nov 13, 2017 05:07
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RuanGacho posted:I think this whole subject is interesting in the retail context because it's basically an example of a product which is viable in other countries, but not the US because the US has pretty obviously chosen bread that isn't moldy in three weeks. It has to do with population density, at least somewhat. When I lived in an urban area, not far from NYC, I could walk to bakeries. I could go down to the corner deli and get a fresh made sandwich on a bagel for a few bucks. In the south, things are spread out enough that such businesses don't draw enough customers to be viable. When we do get new businesses, they don't open up in town, where the people live. They open up on the outskirts, by the freeway, the Target, the Wal-Mart, where you can't even walk. When they opened the new Five Guys here, they put it in a strip mall next to a mattress store on a through-road between two highways. And the businesses keep moving out to the fringes because it is easier, cheaper. It is only recently that we started seeing businesses opening in our vacated downtown area. For the first time in twenty years, I saw corporations buy significant chunks of land, knock'em flat, and rebuild. Someone actually opened a coffee shop, with good coffee and baked goods. We've got a few new places to eat, a bakery opening up soon, etc. Grow town, grow. 
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Nov 13, 2017 05:48
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I feel like the bigger problem here is how many Americans shop for groceries on the same scale that people shop for the apocalypse.
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Nov 13, 2017 05:53
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I feel like the bigger problem here is how many Americans shop for groceries on the same scale that people shop for the apocalypse. When you have to drive 20 minutes to the nearest grocery store, people don't like to go multiple times a week. Even if it's on your way home, the parking, aisles, and checkouts are a nightmare between 4:30 and 7:00. The other factor is if you like processed food, you might as well buy a case of it at once and save some money, because it's not going to go bad anytime soon. Edit: and to go back on topic, if you can have Amazon bring you your pallet of Pepperidge Farm Goldfish Crackers for even cheaper, why go to the store at all? Beachcomber fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 13, 2017 06:19
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I know some people who had a couple kids and moved way the gently caress out in the suburbs and I've seen how their whole lifestyle and habits have changed, and I don't blame them. You adjust to suit your environment or it's like trying to skate up hill. Your only shopping options are big box stores 20 min away, you have to drive 40 min a day just to get to work in horrible traffic so the last thing you want to do is drive more. You have kids and work so you only have a narrow window to shop and guess what that's when everyone else is doing the same. You have your minivan, your SUV, your huge fridge, your deep freeze, so why not just do a big shop every 2-3 weeks? Why not save not just money by buying in bulk but also precious time and stress? Your tastes adapt to the lovely food, you make do with what can keep for a long time and it's fine because you aren't a snob. Sure fresh food is better, but it's not so much better to be worth the extra stress because your environment is a hellscape of cars and parking lots.
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Nov 13, 2017 07:58
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fishmech posted:Which is 99% of the time some hyperbolic British twit comparing the cheapest white bread they can find to their grandma's village's specialty recipe of peasant rock bread or whatever.  Also Wut. £1.20 is simply the price of a loaf of bread of any type, it just is. It’s the same as the price of a pint of milk, it tends not to deviate. As in we have fairly standardised prices for things here. People just choose to go for prepackaged because it will last 5 days but hand made will only last two, and most of the time you have to cut it yourself.
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Nov 13, 2017 08:10
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RuanGacho posted:I think this whole subject is interesting in the retail context because it's basically an example of a product which is viable in other countries, but not the US because the US has pretty obviously chosen bread that isn't moldy in three weeks. Yeah. In Germany, good brown wholemeal/sourdough bread (not just bland cardboard to put things on/cake without sugar glazing, actually has a taste of its own, and viable as its own food item without adding anything on top when fresh out of the oven) is just a staple food you get as a pre-cut loaf for €0.99, baked fresh during the last 6 hours. Toast or other long lasting bland bread is for camping trips, students, and lazy fucks who can't be arsed to go to a store twice a week. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 13, 2017 08:18
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Breadchat. How odd it must be to not be able to walk a few hundred meters to your grandparents farm as a kid and watch as your grandma bakes rye bread in their wood fired stove and then eat it hot with butter. My mom continues the tradition with with an electric oven. Just makes me realized my life has been m ore privileged than I think. EDIT: Also bread can be frozen, that's what we do, have a bake day, then freeze most of it. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 13, 2017 12:32
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blowfish posted:Yeah. In Germany, good brown wholemeal/sourdough bread (not just bland cardboard to put things on/cake without sugar glazing, actually has a taste of its own, and viable as its own food item without adding anything on top when fresh out of the oven) is just a staple food you get as a pre-cut loaf for €0.99, baked fresh during the last 6 hours. Toast or other long lasting bland bread is for camping trips, students, and lazy fucks who can't be arsed to go to a store twice a week. Unfortunately I don't think most of our allies realize how much Americans suffer under a culture that encourages individualism to the point that we are probably suffering some psychological affects similar to solitary confinement.
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Nov 13, 2017 16:32
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Here’s a fun fact that makes Americans seem far less silly in comparison to the brits. Did you know that our prepackaged supermarket bread won’t actually fit in our toasters or toasty makers? The bread is simply too big. There is literally no reason for the industry standard for bread, and the industry standard for the thing that cooks the bread being different sizes, and it’s a mystery to all.
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Nov 13, 2017 16:40
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learnincurve posted:Here’s a fun fact that makes Americans seem far less silly in comparison to the brits. Acrually if you refer to DOA standard A-A-20052....
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Nov 13, 2017 17:05
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JustJeff88 posted:I miss proper British savoury pies and sausage rolls and such so much, but I also miss proper poutine and tourtières from when I lived in Québec. When I lived in Montana, there was actually a place there that made local pasties. They weren't very good, but I appreciate the effort. Where were you in Montana? I miss living in Montana. My town had three large chain grocery stores, but when I liked the small IGA because it had a bakery department with cheap donuts, french bread pizza, and potato salad. The slightly less amount of bulk sizes was made up for by those cheap donuts--especially when they were in the remainder rack.
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Nov 13, 2017 17:14
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glowing-fish posted:Where were you in Montana? Missoula; I worked for U of M for one year. lovely pay, jacked up cost of living in Missoula, but the benefits were insane. Deep Red state, but I was a state employee and they paid for EVERYTHING. Beautiful scenery there, though. I even saw a bear from a great distance, which is undoubtedly the best place to see them from.
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Nov 13, 2017 17:48
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JustJeff88 posted:I used to live and work in a university town in the fairly deep south, and they actually had a decent British-style pub there that served corned beef and cabbage (yes, I know that's more Irish) and great Shepherd's pie. I miss that too. If you are ever in Savannah you can scratch that itch: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UL_txgU8KurYkZi Also parts of Minesota have some pasty traditions, around Duluth and the UP you can find good ones.
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Nov 13, 2017 19:23
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RuanGacho posted:Unfortunately I don't think most of our allies realize how much Americans suffer under a culture that encourages individualism to the point that we are probably suffering some psychological affects similar to solitary confinement. I feel like this is a Big Truth. Baronjutter posted:I know some people who had a couple kids and moved way the gently caress out in the suburbs and I've seen how their whole lifestyle and habits have changed, and I don't blame them. You adjust to suit your environment or it's like trying to skate up hill. Your only shopping options are big box stores 20 min away, you have to drive 40 min a day just to get to work in horrible traffic so the last thing you want to do is drive more. You have kids and work so you only have a narrow window to shop and guess what that's when everyone else is doing the same. You have your minivan, your SUV, your huge fridge, your deep freeze, so why not just do a big shop every 2-3 weeks? Why not save not just money by buying in bulk but also precious time and stress? Your tastes adapt to the lovely food, you make do with what can keep for a long time and it's fine because you aren't a snob. Sure fresh food is better, but it's not so much better to be worth the extra stress because your environment is a hellscape of cars and parking lots. I don't blame them either - it's just a cultural difference that explains why Americans don't buy bread that turns green overnight. Last year I stayed with my dad in his Suburb House for a bit while I was apartment-hunting, and I'd forgotten exactly what that kind of lifestyle entails until I went with him to Sam's Club to buy some jam and the only options were a fifty-pack of individual jam tubs or a jar the size of my head. When all your consumption is on a grand scale like that, your life becomes an endless sea of meaningless white noise.
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Nov 13, 2017 19:23
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In Germany most stores only carry milk in 1-liter containers tops and it's annoying. I like having decent grocery stores in easy walking distance, but drat I miss Costco.
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Nov 13, 2017 21:26
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How well does frozen bread keep? I tend to not use up a loaf of bread in time before tossing most of it out.
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Nov 13, 2017 21:57
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The trick is to get King's Hawaiian for all of your bread needs.
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Nov 13, 2017 22:10
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RandomPauI posted:How well does frozen bread keep? I tend to not use up a loaf of bread in time before tossing most of it out. Frozen bread keeps forever. It's not as as when fresh, but a pretty good stopgap.
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Nov 13, 2017 22:14
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learnincurve posted:
Yeah, I don't think the claim that "american bread tastes like cake" (while being certainly hyperbolic) is coming from an unfair comparison of breads in the UK and the US. Here's the list from earlier for US bread: quote:Bread flour 55.4 Here's the list of ingredients for Warburtons white bread, the most popular brand of bread in the UK (no percentages sadly, but per UK labelling laws the ingredients are listed in order of weight): quote:Wheat Flour One has sugar, one doesn't. If you go your whole life eating unsweetened bread, bread with twice as much sugar in it as salt is going to taste a lot sweeter than you might feel comfortable with.
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Nov 13, 2017 22:39
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Baronjutter posted:I know some people who had a couple kids and moved way the gently caress out in the suburbs and I've seen how their whole lifestyle and habits have changed, and I don't blame them. You adjust to suit your environment or it's like trying to skate up hill. Your only shopping options are big box stores 20 min away, you have to drive 40 min a day just to get to work in horrible traffic so the last thing you want to do is drive more. You have kids and work so you only have a narrow window to shop and guess what that's when everyone else is doing the same. You have your minivan, your SUV, your huge fridge, your deep freeze, so why not just do a big shop every 2-3 weeks? Why not save not just money by buying in bulk but also precious time and stress? Your tastes adapt to the lovely food, you make do with what can keep for a long time and it's fine because you aren't a snob. Sure fresh food is better, but it's not so much better to be worth the extra stress because your environment is a hellscape of cars and parking lots. There's some truth to this, but you aren't relegated to lovely food by buying in bulk. You can get some really good deals on meat, store it forever in your deep freezer and pull out what you need for a really good fresh cooked meal. We buy things in bulk whenever we can go to Costco and get our fresh fruits and vegetables, dairy, baked goods and cold cuts more frequently from the Bi-Lo or Walmart. And the beauty of Costco is that the quality is really good. We don't have to plow through a 1950s stockpile of Hungry Man dinners, as this would suggest.
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Nov 13, 2017 22:41
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RandomPauI posted:How well does frozen bread keep? I tend to not use up a loaf of bread in time before tossing most of it out. It should be good for 2-3 months before it gets hosed up by freezerburn (assuming you wrap + bag it well). If you're making homemade bread, one option is to partially bake (parbake) your bread, and freeze it after it cools. Then you can reheat it to finish baking it and serve it (it seems like more and more grocery chains do this, too---the in-store bakeries receive frozen parbaked bread, which they finish in the oven and put out on shelves as needed").
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Nov 13, 2017 23:04
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Essential's nitrogen vacuum packed loaves ain't bad either.
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Nov 13, 2017 23:06
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RandomPauI posted:How well does frozen bread keep? I tend to not use up a loaf of bread in time before tossing most of it out. Pretty well! But make sure to let it thaw thoroughly or learn the lesson I did about tearing a hole in all the slices I took because the middle was still frozen.
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Nov 13, 2017 23:07
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Reveilled posted:Yeah, I don't think the claim that "american bread tastes like cake" (while being certainly hyperbolic) is coming from an unfair comparison of breads in the UK and the US. Here's the list from earlier for US bread: Yeah once you refuse to count the sugars in your ingredients, suddenly one kind doesn't have sugar. 
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Nov 14, 2017 02:26
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I thought adding a little sugar to bread dough feeds the yeast and doesn't really flavor the finished product? I generally only eat sourdough bread and occasionally rye, so I don't get the USA BREAD IS CAKE thing, although that cheap white Wonderbread poo poo is truly awful.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:36
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RuanGacho posted:Unfortunately I don't think most of our allies realize how much Americans suffer under a culture that encourages individualism to the point that we are probably suffering some psychological affects similar to solitary confinement. i sincerely don't see how that leads to wanting bread that doesn't go bad overnight
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Nov 14, 2017 03:45
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mandatory lesbian posted:i sincerely don't see how that leads to wanting bread that doesn't go bad overnight Our food goods have a lean toward survivalist rationing as opposed to "society will be fine, I can get bread tomorrow" but it was more of a side observation.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:47
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i dont think it's "suvivalist rationing" so much as "i dont want to go to the store every few days" but hey man, you be you
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Nov 14, 2017 03:49
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Reveilled posted:
As an American who lived in England I can confirm that all US packaged white bread is a goddawful sickly sweet abomination that has no business calling itself bread. Warburtons is the clearly superior loaf. The fact that it's twice as tall as an average toaster only adds to the appeal. That is my bread story.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:15
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I like bread
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Nov 14, 2017 04:44
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RuanGacho posted:Our food goods have a lean toward survivalist rationing as opposed to "society will be fine, I can get bread tomorrow" but it was more of a side observation. Er, no, they don't, at all. Nobody's buying bread that lasts longer because they're worried about the apocalypse, those people buy hardtack and the foodbuckets sold by evangelical preachers for way too much money (since what they really contain is the sort of stuff a cruise ship or other remote venue stocks their kitchens with to have a bunch of reasonably fresh seeming meals despite being in nowhere). Are you maybe getting confused with how North American food in general has had its shelf lives greatly improved over the decades, since the US military (and to a somewhat lesser extent, all NATO militaries) have poured massive amounts of funds and research into discovering ways to keep food fresh for an extended time while not really impacting the other attributes? Because, in order to be assured that the food companies of the continent could supply military needs in case of a major war, this research is given out to every food company freely so that can all be suppliers if necessary. Nearly all of this is also in Canada, and most developed countries make use of substantial segments of it. Anyway it used to not matter if everyday bread did not last too long - it was expected that you'd bake your own bread, often in a huge batch at the beginning of the week before things like baking powder and soda came in to speed up the process, and then eat it before it had gone too bad to be used (the stale end of week bread would often be repurposed for stews or other things to add bulk). But also you'd be eating a lot of bread as a staple food, so even if you were just buying it from the bakery or something, you'd use it up quick. But people don't really bake their own bread that much anymore, and they also don't tend to eat all that much bread compared to the way they did before. So now you're starting to not really use a loaf up real quick so having it rot away quickly becomes a problem, and dealing with that gets solved.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:50
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The Retail Collapse of 2017: Murdered by Breadchat
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Nov 14, 2017 04:55
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fishmech posted:Er, no, they don't, at all. Nobody's buying bread that lasts longer because they're worried about the apocalypse, those people buy hardtack and the foodbuckets sold by evangelical preachers for way too much money (since what they really contain is the sort of stuff a cruise ship or other remote venue stocks their kitchens with to have a bunch of reasonably fresh seeming meals despite being in nowhere). I don't disagree with anything you just wrote. So cheers.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:58
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Cruise ships roll pretty fresh stores wise these days, fishmech. Generally the whole voyage every meal is prepared from fresh. Something like a bulk carrier is a better example.
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Nov 14, 2017 05:18
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We spent $500 on groceries the other day. Got enough ingredients to make 6 different dishes of portion sizes large enough to throw half in the freezer. Filled the pantry back up, and got poo poo tickets and paper towels. We live in a big city. We only do this once every couple months because Costco is a shitshow 24/7 except during like Tuesday at 11am, and because I hate dodging other jackasses at Whole Foods who have the same idea as me since we are all 9-5 stiffs and have no other opportunity. Might as well spend 2 hours shopping once a month instead of 20 mins shopping every other day after work. Now they have that Instacart poo poo. I’m compelled to check that out because I really really hate navigating crowds of people at the grocery store. I would love a world where there are more, smaller grocery stores with a decent selection that are within a few blocks, but the big boys killed most of them. I would argue that it’s because Americans are cheap as gently caress and we would prefer to drive 20 mins to save $2 on an item. And so it ends up being more convenient to just do all the shopping at that place. Loss leaders or whatever. Tomorrow I’m still going to the baker down the street to get a nice toothsome sourdough with a chewy crust and a good crumb because $6 on a loaf from a small baker is totally worth it. Orowheat can suck my rear end.
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Nov 14, 2017 05:29
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It's because the FHA made any development pattern except curvilinear car suburbs financially nonviable after 1955, hope that helps.
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Nov 14, 2017 05:34
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A few years ago I lived within two blocks of a medium sized grocery store that was independently owned. They had good prices and a great selection with an emphasis on Central American and Mediterranean products. It owned hard. Medium sized grocery stores are the best.The Oldest Man posted:It's because the FHA made any development pattern except curvilinear car suburbs financially nonviable after 1955, hope that helps. Perhaps that has something to do with it, but I typically lay the blame for American society’s terribleness on the automobile industry and big unwieldy unregulated business. a_pineapple fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 05:37
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The Oldest Man posted:It's because the FHA made any development pattern except curvilinear car suburbs financially nonviable after 1955, hope that helps. This is absolutely a thing. From WW2 to the late 90's, mixed-use developments weren't really a thing. They're only really starting to come back in a lot of places as people gentrify old downtowns.
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Nov 14, 2017 06:30
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fishmech posted:Yeah once you refuse to count the sugars in your ingredients, suddenly one kind doesn't have sugar. Don't be disingenuous. We're talking about sugar as an actual ingredient, not any natural sugar which might exist within the other ingredients.
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Nov 14, 2017 07:13
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