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I wonder what Brooke Ence (the actress in the photos) thinks of the JL design compared to her WW design, or what she has to say about the recent 'regression' article using her costuming as an example.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:51
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I'm not really a huge fan of the practicality argument because if you go down that path Superman's fighting style should be chucking rocks at people at 0.1c or whatever. Actually that would be pretty cool.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:55
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porfiria posted:I'm not really a huge fan of the practicality argument because if you go down that path Superman's fighting style should be chucking rocks at people at 0.1c or whatever. Actually that would be pretty cool. Yes. Or Batman wearing a cape, for example.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:57
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Oh gtfo with that "you're the ones trying to shame women by wanting to cover her up!!" bullshit. In the WW film, the Amazons went into battle with functional and well-designed armor. The same Amazon who wore that functional armor in WW is now dressed much skimpier and more revealingly in JL for no apparent reason, and she's just one of multiple examples. Yes, pro athletes and fighters, male and female, often show off their bodies when they compete. But they're competing for sport, not indulging in life-or-death warfare. Female characters wearing the skin-baring outfits that some of the JL Amazons wear to fight alien invaders -- and all the various excuses that viewers come up with in order to "justify" these female characters being dressed this way -- is the sort of fapping idiocy that male-targeted sci-fi and fantasy is rightfully mocked for. Feel free to dig up any JL production images of male Atlantean soldiers or male human warriors with their abs on display to show just how very liberated and empowered these filmmakers are when it comes to body conformity. Hell, even Jason Momoa is fully covered in neck-to-toe armor when he shows up to fight.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:02
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Yes. Or Batman wearing a cape, for example. Exactly. Because it's about the imagery much more than practicality. Batman is a a bat so he has to have wings, which is what the cape represents. Amazons are weird mythological warrior women that live on lesbian bondage island. Even in WW they are still wearing what amounts to iron and leather swimsuits rather than anything a warrior would ever wear.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:05
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BrianWilly posted:In the WW film, the Amazons went into battle with functional and well-designed armor. The same Amazon who wore that functional armor in WW is now dressed much skimpier and more revealingly in JL for no apparent reason, and she's just one of multiple examples. OK, so why are their thighs bare in WW?
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Nov 14, 2017 01:07
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To be fair, if you're wearing any armor at all it's going on the chest and tummy. And head I guess. This is sort of a funny conversation to be having given how Snyder dressed his Spartan musclebois.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:10
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BrianWilly posted:Feel free to dig up any JL production images of male Atlantean soldiers or male human warriors with their abs on display to show just how very liberated and empowered these filmmakers are when it comes to body conformity. Hell, even Jason Momoa is fully covered in neck-to-toe armor when he shows up to fight. 
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Nov 14, 2017 01:12
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porfiria posted:This is sort of a funny conversation to be having given how Snyder dressed his Spartan musclebois. The men in JL are clearly sexualized as well, yet people only ever seem to notice when it's something that has a TV Tropes entry.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:12
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:OK, so why are their thighs bare in WW? This is a production image from BvS, not Justice League.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:15
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BrianWilly posted:Oh gtfo with that "you're the ones trying to shame women by wanting to cover her up!!" bullshit. Seriously!
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Nov 14, 2017 01:16
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If you're against enemies shooting lasers, your leather armor is not practical. Probably better to go nearly nude at that point.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:19
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BrianWilly posted:This is a production image from BvS, not Justice League. Ha. OK I have no idea, just googled aquaman justice league and that was there. But you did say: BrianWilly posted:to show just how very liberated and empowered these filmmakers And it is the same filmmakers so... But you are right, this is not historically accurate Atlantean armour.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:19
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porfiria posted:This is sort of a funny conversation to be having given how Snyder dressed his Spartan musclebois. Yeah, the normal thing that happens when you bring up the guys in 300 is that someone points out that the guys in that movie are dressed that way to show off their powerful physiques, while the chainmail bikini wearer isn't, so it's not actually equal treatment. The idea being that it would be different if the scantily-dressed women were also being celebrated for their strength. But apparently that didn't actually matter.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:21
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So the new excuse now is that Snyder showed off men in a completely different film eleven years ago so it's okay for him to show off women now in this film?
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Nov 14, 2017 01:24
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BrianWilly posted:Fidelity to bona fide historical armor design, which prioritized the protection of the torso while leaving the limbs more freedom of movement. It wasn't a matter of modesty but of function. But the 'fidelity' is purely aesthetic. Why don't the Amazons have one breast removed? Why doesn't Ares show up nude? BrianWilly posted:So the new excuse now is that Snyder showed off men in a completely different film eleven years ago so it's okay for him to show off women now in this film? Patti Jenkins "showed off" women in the film, Wonder Woman.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:26
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BrianWilly posted:Oh gtfo with that "you're the ones trying to shame women by wanting to cover her up!!" bullshit. SuperMechagodzilla posted:what's being exploited is the covering-up itself. Femsploitation in place of sexsploitation. The prospect of not seeing an rear end carries an incredibly strong appeal for some people, and companies are very ready to capitalize on that.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:27
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The phrase 'show off women' is very strange. I suppose if you want to look at it like that he showed off muscles. What difference does the gender of the rest of the person make?
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Nov 14, 2017 01:28
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Seriously, the women in this current crop of pictures have intimidatingly ripped abs. The 300 comparison seems more apt than anything else, except that those men are actually more likely to be sexually objectified in most audiences' eyes by that portrayal.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:30
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I want to see Joss Whedon's tummy.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:34
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, the normal thing that happens when you bring up the guys in 300 is that someone points out that the guys in that movie are dressed that way to show off their powerful physiques, while the chainmail bikini wearer isn't, so it's not actually equal treatment. The idea being that it would be different if the scantily-dressed women were also being celebrated for their strength. But apparently that didn't actually matter. I don't know what most of y'all are looking at, but I'm looking at her physique. She looks like could crush someone's skull doing a sit-up.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:38
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K. Waste posted:I don't know what most of y'all are looking at, but I'm looking at her physique. She looks like could crush someone's skull doing a sit-up. Which is a different kind of eroticization. If you were looking for a problematic sexual element, it would be that her outfit is designed to display her prominent musculature (ie. thighs, arms, back, abs), not that the immortal demigod curiously lacks protection from a fuckin' leather cuirass.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:42
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BrianWilly posted:So the new excuse now is that Snyder showed off men in a completely different film eleven years ago so it's okay for him to show off women now in this film? I wasn't excusing anything because it's not clear to me what needs to be excused. I honestly thought the problem wasn't the basic idea of celebrating a woman's physique, but rather what physiques were being celebrated and why and what that embodies about how women are viewed in our society. I'm very open to hearing what I've misunderstood. My reference to 300 was because it was actually a common element used in these arguments (that happens to be from the same director), with my having many times read that the difference between it and the typical scantily-clad woman in a movie is that the men were being celebrated for their physical power (even if this contains an erotic element) and the women weren't. I'm not suggesting you're responsible for this argument, just contextualizing my confusion here. What I'm reading now is that this difference is actually irrelevant. That the problem was never the stereotypes to which bodies were being conformed, but anything which would "show off" a woman. So I'm hoping you explain the problem.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:But the 'fidelity' is purely aesthetic. Why don't the Amazons have one breast removed? Why doesn't Ares show up nude? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Patti Jenkins "showed off" women in the film, Wonder Woman. I don't know what Snyder is ultimately going to do because I won't see the film for three more days but if his "aesthetics" just so happen to feature bikini armor in completely unsuitable contexts and exclusively for female characters, then I would suggest that the reasoning and premise of those "aesthetics" be thoroughly criticized. NotJustANumber99 posted:I suppose if you want to look at it like that he showed off muscles. What difference does the gender of the rest of the person make? Because if our new excuse for depicting scantily-clad women is that it's okay as long as they've done crunches, then all we're going to end up with is movie after movie where muscular women are disproportionately sexualized for male consumption.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:53
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It just seems a tad arbitrary to claim that one costume design is not celebrating the physique and strength of the performer, when I can think of literally no examples from mainstream cinema in which a woman of that physique has been portrayed in that manner. Nothing about the nakedness of her costume looks invitational or possessive, which is a key component of conventional objectification of women - she looks sharp, rigid, and oppositional. It doesn't strike me as at all similar to technically more attired costumes of characters like Black Widow, or Wonder Woman, or even characters portrayed in action movies by loving Gina Carano and Ronda Rousey.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:55
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BrianWilly posted:Because if our new excuse for depicting scantily-clad women is that it's okay as long as they've done crunches, then all we're going to end up with is movie after movie where muscular women are disproportionately sexualized for male consumption.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:57
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BrianWilly posted:In the former case because that's a ridiculous quirk to attach to the Amazons which was invented by men who had no idea how a boob actually works. Uhh you are aware of the origin of Wonder Woman, right? quote:The aesthetic difference between that film and this one is the exact contention being made. Jenkins managed show off women to women and for women without having to say "Hey look how much more powerful and Amazonian you feel if you just show off your abs in a field of battle! This is corporatized Maybelline feminism. "To Women, For Women?" What the hell? You can't seriously believe this foolishness.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:58
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Glad this thread found something different to argue about.
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Nov 14, 2017 01:59
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Wonder Woman was invented by a man with a femdom kink. If you were making a film for women, directed at women, you'd throw the whole thing out and start fresh.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:00
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UmOk posted:Glad this thread found something different to argue about. Here's something Gal posted to her instagram: her and Ray Fisher throwing a football around during a photoshoot  https://twitter.com/badpostray/status/930162684112318464
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Nov 14, 2017 02:06
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She is inappropriately attired to play football. I will NOT be seeing this movie.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:10
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K. Waste posted:She looks like could crush someone's skull doing a sit-up. Hey, spoilers!
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Nov 14, 2017 02:17
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Electromax posted:Hey, spoilers!
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Nov 14, 2017 02:18
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BrianWilly posted:The aesthetic difference between that film and this one is the exact contention being made. Jenkins managed show off women to women and for women without having to say "Hey look how much more powerful and Amazonian you feel if you just show off your abs in a field of battle!" That doesn't strike me as what those costumes are doing. Snyder puts people and things on show because he thinks they're awesome. Most of the titillation for a skimpy outfit is the outfit, not what it reveals. A dress with slit along one leg reveals less than a pair of knee-length jorts, but it accentuates the act of revealing. I don't see that here. The idea is actually to reveal. It's not about the idea of a leather bikini.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:22
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I'm watching Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition right now and this movie is so good.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:36
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This is the sort of thing I'm talking about, just as an example: https://i.imgur.com/4oP4bWH.gifv
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Nov 14, 2017 02:52
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teagone posted:I'm watching Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition right now and this movie is so good. 
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Nov 14, 2017 02:53
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teagone posted:I'm watching Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition right now and this movie is so good. Um, I think you will find it is actually bad because CGI and establishing shots.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:04
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teagone posted:I'm watching Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition right now and this movie is so good. I too prefer my Batmen to be The Punisher instead of Batman.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:48
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Jiro posted:I too prefer my Batmen to be The Punisher instead of Batman. This is an own on yourself for being this dense.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:51
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