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NikkolasKing posted:Unicorn, 00 and AGE coming to Bluray with "existing" English dubs. It's bad. Don't.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:44
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NikkolasKing posted:Unicorn, 00 and AGE coming to Bluray with "existing" English dubs. there is absolutely no situation in which pissing away that much free time would ever be worth it.
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Nov 14, 2017 02:48
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Unlike most of the fandom, I like a lot of the Age MS designs, especially the mass production earth suits. Also, that one episode about the colonies having mock battles is one of the better parts of the show There, there's some fan disagreement. Now feel secure in not watching it.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:32
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The mech designs are the best part of AGE if you don't count the AGE-FX and some of the dumber Vagan poo poo.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:45
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Guy Goodbody posted:Unlike most of the fandom, I like a lot of the Age MS designs, especially the mass production earth suits. Also, that one episode about the colonies having mock battles is one of the better parts of the show Pretty sure I've seen a number of people say they like a number of the AGE designs, so just stating that isn't really disagreeing with the fandom. It's just nearly everything else about it that's terrible.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:50
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AGE 1's bulky wrestler looking form owned bones. Wanted to see more of it.
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Nov 14, 2017 03:58
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Lord Koth posted:Pretty sure I've seen a number of people say they like a number of the AGE designs, so just stating that isn't really disagreeing with the fandom. It's just nearly everything else about it that's terrible. Yeah, the feddie grunts in AGE are... okay. Like, they're not up there with the Sniper II or anything, but they're decent enough design that translate to kits easily. Not so fond of pretty much anything else, and the designs mostly don't work for conveying narrative. Sure, neat to have a pro wrestler looking Gundam, but it doesn't say "kid genius" or "I will eventually try to commit genocide!" And the Vagan designs are just goofy.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:13
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If you don't think a dragon alien Gundam and a pirate Gundam are the coolest poo poo I don't know what to tell you. And yes, I know I can find dragon Gundam, alien Gundam and pirate Gundam in other, better written Gundams. But those are designs I like in AGE too.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:18
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Luminaflare posted:I don't know if it's been changed in patches but at launch option parts could be vastly more powerful than your actual melee or ranged options. I don't remember the exact number or maths but essentially the bonus caps for option parts were higher and there were more parts you could put those bonuses on. For me though it gave suits a lot more flavour, you spent more time picking parts because of what makes them unique instead of them having better numbers. GB3 specifically had "Option Damage +%" as a modifier on equipment that you could build for, while GB2 did not. I did a shitload of endgame farming in GB2 at launch with a ridiculous amount of time played and the option weapons were all universally pathetic compared to stacked main guns/melee, especially melee. The only use for option parts was funnel spam for staggering targets and if you were running a gimmick build that required certain weapon types for a specific awakening(such as Full Open Attack scaling off missile/gatling parts). In the latter case you never actually used any of the option weapons. GB3 also got rid of the godawful CAD system, literally the worst thing in GB2. Hope you like farming completely random bosses to get completely unrelated CADs to be able to make parts to evolve into other parts! Want a Peacock Smasher? Well, first you've gotta go to this random stage and blow up Qan[T]s for the Zanbuster CAD in order to evolve the Zanbuster into the Peacock Smasher! 
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Nov 14, 2017 04:22
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chiasaur11 posted:Sure, neat to have a pro wrestler looking Gundam, but it doesn't say "kid genius" or "I will eventually try to commit genocide!" Pro wrestling with robots is a genius idea. To support this thesis, I present to you one G Gundam. 
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Nov 14, 2017 05:19
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Shinjobi posted:Pro wrestling with robots is a genius idea. To support this thesis, I present to you one G Gundam. Yes! It is great! It also has nothing to do with Flit's character. Chibodee has a boxer robot, that's because he's a ridiculously AMERICAN pro boxer. His robot tells you about him, and about the tone of the show. George has a fencer, because he's French and he tries for the knightly, sophisticated fighting style. Meanwhile, Flit's supposed to be a kid genius inventor who slowly turns into a hardened monster. He's neither a Thorkell style fight maniac, nor a lighthearted type who treats war as a game before learning what it costs. A suit that looks like it might be designed for Mike Haggar is fine in its place, but it doesn't gel with what the show wants from it.
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Nov 14, 2017 05:44
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chiasaur11 posted:Chibodee has a boxer robot, that's because he's a ridiculously AMERICAN pro boxer. His robot tells you about him, and about the tone of the show. It's a surfing gunslinging boxer robot wearing a football helmet man. Jeez.
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Nov 14, 2017 06:26
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Marx Headroom posted:It's a surfing gunslinging boxer robot wearing a football helmet man. Jeez. I just didn't want to make Age's half-assed designs feel even shittier by describing perfection.
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Nov 14, 2017 06:31
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Well, I would genuinely counter that you only see the form while Flit is a kid, and that by the time he's mustached he's too bloodthirsty and insane for cool things like a John Cena Gundam. Here, I wrote some fanfiction explaining how the wrestler form of AGE was just the last gasp of Flit's childhood expressing itself:
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Nov 14, 2017 06:58
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Shinjobi posted:Well, I would genuinely counter that you only see the form while Flit is a kid, and that by the time he's mustached he's too bloodthirsty and insane for cool things like a John Cena Gundam. I think that would work better if it wasn’t literally churned out by an impersonal machine. That said, emphasising Flit’s apprentice-toymaker delight in mecha engineering could have been a really good move - Vargas is basically Santa anyway. It works considerably worse for his actual G1 characterisation, which was of a high-strung conspiracy theorist with his sanity eroded by his mother’s violent, inexplicable death.
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Nov 14, 2017 19:33
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To be honest, if you asked me at gunpoint: I'd make AGE-1 even more an homage to original Gundam than it is. Make its form changes things like a Guncannon mode. Emphsize the idea that Flit is a hosed-up kid who is Amuro going down the wrong path. AGE-2 shouldn't really change much and should focus on nonstandard weapons and gimmicks like it already does. (flash, wires, etc) to emphasize the idea that Asemu is a hobbiest with no special powers who focuses on his machine. AGE-3 is the one that should be toyetic as gently caress because Kio was raised training on video games and his AGE unit replicates that, with more stylish and ridiculous weaponry. When he finally upgrades after loving up a lot the AGE-FX ends up showing his character growth by becoming something that isn't childish.
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Nov 14, 2017 19:57
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Now rewrite Destiny.
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Nov 14, 2017 19:59
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chumbler posted:Now rewrite Destiny. Didn't a SRW game already do that?
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Nov 14, 2017 20:30
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If Shinn had a more reasonable character arc I feel like that alone would do a lot to fix Destiny. The show as-is takes this weird half-measure with Shinn where he's set up as a sympathetic anti-hero turned anti-villain but then sort of just half-heartedly joins Kira and friends in the end. I think it's fine to have him succumb to his desire for revenge or whatever and ultimately have to be put down (Perhaps have Shinn believe it really was Kira's Freedom that fired the shot that killed his family for dramatic effect)- that could be a nice tragic arc in its own right. You could also do the Super Robot Wars thing and have Shinn actually earn his redemption and get over himself, and then do something from there- perhaps making him a little more of a Kamille-like character. Right now the show wants to have its cake and eat it too with Shinn and it just doesn't work very well.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:06
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chumbler posted:Now rewrite Destiny. Destiney doesn't really need a rewrite, just better execution. The idea of having the protagonist of a Gundam series being, in essence, Jerid Messa is really interesting. Having an angry Gundam kid who ends up genuinely manipulated and making the wrong decisions for understandable reasons is a fine concept and Shinn comes relatively close to pulling it off. Having him opposed to the protagonist and end up eventually failing miserably and being on the wrong side of history is really not a bad idea. I will stand by the idea that there is nothing actually wrong with Shinn's arc. Starting as the victim of a previous war who slips into the role of the protagonist only for it to turn out he's on the wrong side and a combination of genuine righteous anger and deep sunk cost fallacy causing him to lose everything he cares about would be interesting both from a writing perspective and from a commentary on how a well-meaning/protagonisty person can end up on the wrong side of the traditional Gundam protagonist. Especially at the time it was released "giving up Freedom for Safety" was also a pretty effective and meaningful topic to explore and one which is innately Gundam. That said: Shinn's counterpart shouldn't have been Athrun or Kira. It should have been Cagalli. Of all the characters in the show she has the closest to a meaningful arc with him and her position vs his would allow for actually interesting conflict and arguments. Even in the show as presented Cagalli is struggling with a similar theme to Shinn and the two characters have more to say to one another than Shinn and Kira or even Shinn and Athrun ever did. Edit: Shinn and Flit basically both have the same problem. "What if a Gundam kid fucks up?" is a really strong concept that they fail in the execution of. Shinn goes far enough but fails to present in a way that is appealing to the view and Flit chickens out at the last minute despite having Flit go full Basq Ohm for the rest of the series. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 21:09
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ImpAtom posted:Destiney doesn't really need a rewrite, just better execution. I mean, IBO did it. 
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Nov 14, 2017 22:02
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SRW Z showed me that Destiny really dropped the ball by not letting Meer sing as a final farewell. Wow, Meer was just kinda there in the end.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:29
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, IBO did it. I wouldn't say IBO did it. Mika never really ends up a 'villain' in the way Shinn or Flit do. He is abused and manipulated and taken advantage of (and certainly ends up on the wrong side of history) but the character himself is never really in that role. Shinn intentionally mimics Jerid and Flit intentionally Basq (because Gundam can't get away from Zeta, lol) but Mika's pretty firmly in the Heero/Setsuna mold of hosed-up child soldier instead. It's close to an interesting subversion but ends up following through on similar ideas in Wing/00, just actually ending rather than continuing past it. Which isn't bad but not really the same thing. Tae posted:SRW Z showed me that Destiny really dropped the ball by not letting Meer sing as a final farewell. I wouldn't say that. Meer is important because she's basically the only hard indication we have of the downside of Durandal's plan. A person who is forced into a role instead of being allowed to be a person. The end result is someone good at their job but at the same time hollow and ineffectual. Just, like the rest of Destiny, execution. Meer wasn't a good enough character to feel as tragic as she should.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:33
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TaurusOxford posted:Didn't a SRW game already do that? --Scramble Commander 2 (Destiny's debut in the franchise): The Destiny Plan involves Durandal loading up the SDF-1 Macross with clones of Paptimus Scirocco, since Gil is friends with Pappy. The rest of the plot is played fairly straight, with the notable change of Shinn and Luna joining the new edition of the Preventers (led by Wufei, of all people) in the epilogue. --Z1: The more well-known of the SRW changes. The game takes steps to give Shinn a support group of people to listen to him (much like what SRW does for Shinji Ikari when Evangelion gets featured), mostly in the form of Camille Bidan. You get to choose to whether the Minerva crew stays with the protagonist team (if you get enough points on your first run to unlock the choice; the decision is unlocked on repeat playthroughs) or returns to ZAFT and plays things out straight. Setsuko's route has a little more development for Destiny since her side of things focuses more on the Gundams in the game (with Stella being a route-exclusive secret). Also, Durandal absolutely clowns the Frost Brothers with Messiah's particle laser in the Destiny finale. Unfortunately, while Cagalli, Dearka and Heine are in the game code as pilots, they use dummy files for audio due the issues with the respective characters' VAs (Cagalli and Dearka's refusing to reprise the role, Heine's being too drat expensive to hire). --K: Destiny is played more from Kira and Cagalli's perspectives, but also hyper condensed. As in, the game devotes about 5 or 6 stages (out of 36 total) to the entirety of Destiny's plot. In Kira's case, he pumps the brakes and listens for a minute to everyone when he first appears instead of blindly shooting-to-disable-combatants like in the show. However, Cagalli gets a hell of a lot more attention (mostly because K was on the DS and didn't have to worry about Naomi Shindo refusing to reprise the role) and practically is the protagonist of the show, with the Minerva team being secondary characters. K also wraps things up weirdly for Destiny; Yuna survives and gets a bit of redemption, while Arthur and Meer get put in charge of the Minerva itself (which sadly is a NPC in the game) following Talia's death. --L: Destiny here is dealt with interestingly. Up until the Berlin arc, things are relatively played straight. The first change happens with something minor: adding Dearka to the events in Berlin as a guest unit. Since Shinn kind of thinks Athrun's opinions on Kira are biased, he asks Dearka for a second opinion, to which Dearka replies with (paraphrased) "Why not try finding out for yourself?". When the showdown between Kira and Shinn happens, Shinn actually reveals to Kira that he's trying to save Stella, causing Kira to stop and let Shinn save Stella. Stella herself survives the events of the game on her own (however, actually getting her as a playable pilot is a secret), and Shinn slowly changes his opinions on Kira. This culminates with the second half of Destiny being the most visibly changed, as everything from Heaven's Base all the way to the end features a more calmed down and rational Shinn Asuka dealing with the events around him without being the reckless hothead from the show. Even Gilbert Durandal gets a better send off: he opts to help the team out when the Iczer villain Neos Gold reveals that thanks to plot bullshit, she's immune to damage. Gil's solution is turn the heavily damaged Messiah (since the Destiny finale was the previous stage) towards the Moon, and flip the thrusters to the "ramming speed" setting and crash right into Neos Gold's face, knocking out her plot bullshit in the process.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:35
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest, if you asked me at gunpoint: I always thought that they missed a trick by not making the Age-FX into some kinda psychic machine like whatever happened to the 00 Quant at the end of that movie. Like, the Age System has been there the entire time, have it do some classic War Games thing where it decides that the only way to win the war is to end wars, so it comes out with a Gundam that can do that. But it's just mind-boggling in general how poorly misused the Age System was. From using it so rarely, to not sticking with the same Gundam all the way through the series, to establishing that it can make weapons only to completely ignore that for the rest of the show. It should've been a great gimmick but they hosed up.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:I always thought that they missed a trick by not making the Age-FX into some kinda psychic machine like whatever happened to the 00 Quant at the end of that movie. Like, the Age System has been there the entire time, have it do some classic War Games thing where it decides that the only way to win the war is to end wars, so it comes out with a Gundam that can do that. The Age System was exactly the kind of super-toyetic concept you'd expect in a TV show designed with a video game tie-in and seemingly aimed at a younger audience. That it was squandered for even pumping out toys almost seems subversive on the writers' behalf, although that might give them too much credit.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:18
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Guy Goodbody posted:I always thought that they missed a trick by not making the Age-FX into some kinda psychic machine like whatever happened to the 00 Quant at the end of that movie. Like, the Age System has been there the entire time, have it do some classic War Games thing where it decides that the only way to win the war is to end wars, so it comes out with a Gundam that can do that. The Age System makes perfect sense in the game where it's used constantly and is the center of the mechanics. Of course the adaptation completely foregoes this for some reason??? Despite the game actually making better use of it in the same scenes as the anime has? Like one thing that comes to mind is in the anime when Yurin dies, Flit swaps over to the Titus to ram himself into the enemy ship because eh. In the game he gets a new power-up which is a powerful shielded and grim-looking variation which better fits the idea that Flit is hosed up as hell and cutting himself off. It's a dumb minor little thing but choosing to give him a more military form there instead of the angst of wrestlebot at least makes the Age system feel like it's feeling off Flit's feelings.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:21
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I'm still reeling from the fact they had characters called Urine and Anus.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:23
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Animators $200 Voices $150 Toys $800 Bad Names $3,600 Robots $150 someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my franchise is dying
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Nov 14, 2017 23:46
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Improbable Lobster posted:Animators $200 If you don't want a serious war story featuring characters named Biscuit, Cookie and Cracker, I don't want you anywhere near my Gundam.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:49
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Improbable Lobster posted:Animators $200 Alright, I think you should move some money from animators and toys to bad names. It's just an opener, but it should help you stabilize things enough to plan out your next move.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:53
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ImpAtom posted:If you don't want a serious war story featuring characters named Biscuit, Cookie and Cracker, I don't want you anywhere near my Gundam. Seriously are you expecting me to watch a grim war tale about fuckin Jimmy and Mike like some kinda loser?
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Nov 15, 2017 00:01
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sexpig by night posted:Seriously are you expecting me to watch a grim war tale about fuckin Jimmy and Mike like some kinda loser? Colonel Michael Gern is a Inglessian hero, and I will not hear him maligned like this.
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Nov 15, 2017 00:16
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sexpig by night posted:Seriously are you expecting me to watch a grim war tale about fuckin Jimmy and Mike like some kinda loser? 
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Nov 15, 2017 00:35
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Please look forward to Gundam Frank with new characters Craps Snakeeyes and Dynamo Volkswagen.
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Nov 15, 2017 00:59
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AradoBalanga posted:Pretty much all SRWs have rewritten Destiny's plot (when it's not featured as a post-series entry) on some level. From memory: This is all pretty interesting but I've never played an SRW game and would like to hear more about rewrites to characters or plots that are good. Like, what happens to Kamille or Four in the various SRW games? I hear you can save Four in practically everything ever. In Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam saving her keeps Kamille from being psycho-lobotomized so that was cool.
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Nov 15, 2017 01:09
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Raxivace posted:Jimmy and Mike you say? "Hello. Welcome. What a pleasure it is to have you. Just gonna call you Mirai if that's okay. It's a lovely name. It reminds me of the bright, beautiful future. Bright always told me how lucky he was, prior to recent unfortunate events. Clearly his taste in women is the same as his taste in lawyers: only the very best with just the right amount of dirty."
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Nov 15, 2017 01:09
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NikkolasKing posted:This is all pretty interesting but I've never played an SRW game and would like to hear more about rewrites to characters or plots that are good. If you want to see more, here's Brunom1's LP of MX (post-plot Zeta, Kamille has suffered the brain trauma from the TV show, but got better) and his joint LP of the first Z game with Dr Pepper and Caphi, where A New Translation gets played out relatively in full as mentioned above. Or you can check out Tobias Grant's LP of Alpha Gaiden, where the Titans are essentially the villains of the game's first major arc (which lasts about 9 stages, though).
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Nov 15, 2017 02:00
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I know in one of the Super Robot Wars games that involves a Gundam plot your characters are supposed to protect General Rival and Degwin Zabi's peace conference. So as a result you save Degwin and Zeon splinters.
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Nov 15, 2017 03:23
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ImpAtom posted:Especially at the time it was released "giving up Freedom for Safety" was also a pretty effective and meaningful topic to explore and one which is innately Gundam. The upgrade to Freedom should totally have been Safety Gundam. Or rename the Impulse and have Safety destroy Freedom!
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Nov 15, 2017 03:28
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