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There any Goon Community for Total War Arena? Got into it lately and actually having a blast as weird and different as it is
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Nov 14, 2017 18:42
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nessin posted:Vikings had bows. And you've got swords, axes, swords with shields, and axes with shields. Riveting. is it your contention that sengoku era japan is better known by the layperson than the vikings?
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Nov 14, 2017 20:44
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Oh hey a historical TW based in Europe cool
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Nov 14, 2017 20:48
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I'm hoping that the Viking Age game goes full Europe so we can get some adventures down south to join the Varangian Guard or attack Italy by sailing around Spain.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:49
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BBJoey posted:is it your contention that sengoku era japan is better known by the layperson than the vikings? the last samurai!
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Nov 14, 2017 20:52
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John Charity Spring posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fu0UPnk4kc Awesome. I'm digging the completely different depictions of Alfred in The Last Kingdom vs here: shrewd, canny negotiator vs. hulking sword-wielding asskicker. If nothing else this game will crank out some kickin' rad concept art:  Hopefully the Total War version manages to capture some of Alfred's subtleties too, the dude really was a superhuman administrator. ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 22:55
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Guess now is a decent time to actually finish watching The Last Kingdom, then play Viking Conquest for M&B: Warband, then play in England from the Old Gods start in CKII for good measure.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:08
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Last Kingdom is surprisingly decent. It's not Sharpe, but it is a good adaptation of Cornwell's books.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:10
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Fans posted:There any Goon Community for Total War Arena? Got into it lately and actually having a blast as weird and different as it is A few of us play it semi routinely, we got an Arena voice channel added to the discord for total war goons @ https://discord.gg/HwzrqSV If anyone wants to play just idle in there while your playing solo and see if someone else shows up. I'm also enjoying it, with a few caveats: 1) You need to accept that you may be on a 'team' but don't expect any real coordination. Most people are total morons. This works to your advantage because the majority of the enemy team is morons, but your team is as well. 2) Must be flexible and not try to force any big plan/strategy. That requires buy in from the rest of your team, instead you'll most likely get hung out to dry by yourself. Don't be the dude who goes in front. 3) You will lose games. You will lose games by extremely narrow margins where you easily could have won too, if only your remaining teammates could use all their mental abilities. That said you can win games with literally single units. We had 2 games back to back where we won by causing the enemy to decap with 2 horse units that had literally a single man in each squad. Always try to preserve your units. 4) Tier 3-6 is the sweet spot for me, higher tiers seem very lethal (units can be killed much quicker). T3-6 unit stats and abilities don't kill entire units super quick and around T5 you have the full diversity of unit types in play. I don't really have a desire to grind up anything more. Looking forward to the open beta/release much more than I thought I would. I definitely recommend people check it out when it's released F2P (I think you have to buy in right now for $10).
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Nov 15, 2017 00:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:Last Kingdom is surprisingly decent. It's not Sharpe, but it is a good adaptation of Cornwell's books. In our house it's called Uhtred Makes Bad Choices: Season 1
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Nov 15, 2017 00:41
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canyoneer posted:In our house it's called Uhtred Makes Bad Choices: Season 1 He gets better
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Nov 15, 2017 00:48
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BBJoey posted:is it your contention that sengoku era japan is better known by the layperson than the vikings? This isn't Vikings, it's 9th/10th Century Britain, if you're going to compare themes then I think you could find a pretty solid argument in Vikings versus Samurai. So yes, my contention is more will people recognize Sengoku Era Japan than 9th and 10th Century Britain. If CA was going to legitimately build a game around the Viking theme then they'd have to branch out. Everything that made the "Viking Age" notable in history is what they did everywhere but Britain.
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Nov 15, 2017 01:25
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nessin posted:This isn't Vikings, it's 9th/10th Century Britain, if you're going to compare themes then I think you could find a pretty solid argument in Vikings versus Samurai. So yes, my contention is more will people recognize Sengoku Era Japan than 9th and 10th Century Britain. If CA was going to legitimately build a game around the Viking theme then they'd have to branch out. Everything that made the "Viking Age" notable in history is what they did everywhere but Britain. what
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Nov 15, 2017 01:30
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nessin posted:This isn't Vikings, it's 9th/10th Century Britain, if you're going to compare themes then I think you could find a pretty solid argument in Vikings versus Samurai. So yes, my contention is more will people recognize Sengoku Era Japan than 9th and 10th Century Britain. If CA was going to legitimately build a game around the Viking theme then they'd have to branch out. Everything that made the "Viking Age" notable in history is what they did everywhere but Britain. we found a crazy person
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Nov 15, 2017 01:34
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The setting itself isn't wildly inspiring but if they create more depth in the campaign section there could be something there. CAs smaller map campaigns are their strongest, I maintain Caesar in Gaul is the most compelling TW game they've made yet.
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Nov 15, 2017 01:38
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:the last samurai! Excuse me, that's the Boshin War era
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Nov 15, 2017 07:04
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nessin posted:This isn't Vikings, it's 9th/10th Century Britain, if you're going to compare themes then I think you could find a pretty solid argument in Vikings versus Samurai. So yes, my contention is more will people recognize Sengoku Era Japan than 9th and 10th Century Britain. If CA was going to legitimately build a game around the Viking theme then they'd have to branch out. Everything that made the "Viking Age" notable in history is what they did everywhere but Britain.
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Nov 15, 2017 07:53
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Mantis42 posted:There's a pretty popular show about the Vikings in England right now. That probably has something to do with it. This is why I think there will never be a 30 Years War pike and shot era game. Video games have always copied movies and TV for everything. Like after Saving Private Ryan there were loads of WW2 Normandy games that always have an Omaha beach map. And if there is no Omaha beach map, someone will mod it in. Games would try to copy the special effects from the movie and even rip the sounds straight out of it. Everyone loves Romans and ancient Greeks and Vikings and Samurai and medieval knights and stuff and there are a million movies about them going back decades. There's no big 30 Years War movie for the game devs to rip off. Except for that Spanish language Viggo Mortensen movie from 10 years ago I guess.
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Nov 15, 2017 07:56
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nessin posted:This isn't Vikings, it's 9th/10th Century Britain, if you're going to compare themes then I think you could find a pretty solid argument in Vikings versus Samurai. So yes, my contention is more will people recognize Sengoku Era Japan than 9th and 10th Century Britain. If CA was going to legitimately build a game around the Viking theme then they'd have to branch out. Everything that made the "Viking Age" notable in history is what they did everywhere but Britain. The words of someone who does not talk to real people
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Nov 15, 2017 16:49
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Kenzie posted:
The Last Valley 
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Nov 15, 2017 18:46
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Mans posted:The Last Valley lol from a review quote:The plot left me bewildered - in fact the whole bloody business is probably an excellent microcosm of the Thirty Years' War, with no clear picture of what is happening and half the cast ending up dead to no purpose. To that extent, it must be rated a successful film.
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Nov 15, 2017 19:11
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CA would never do a game about a lesser known era, that's why Fall of the Samurai doesn't exist
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Nov 15, 2017 19:29
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unwantedplatypus posted:CA would never do a game about a lesser known era, that's why Fall of the Samurai doesn't exist Same but like half of the DLC campaigns for their historical games.
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Nov 15, 2017 19:31
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Don Gato posted:Wrong. Owned by Danes during the height of the Viking Age for two centuries, back then they would have been known as vikings to basically everyone in Europe. Wrong? About what? I explicitly said in the very quote you used in your post that the Vikings existing in Britain. What amazing history am I missing here?
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Nov 15, 2017 19:34
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Yeah, CA would never make a game about an obscure historical event! *Makes campaign based on the Northern Crusade.*
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Nov 15, 2017 19:47
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unwantedplatypus posted:CA would never do a game about a lesser known era, that's why Fall of the Samurai doesn't exist If there wasn't a well known movie starring the rather famous Tom Cruise set in that era I'd agree with you. Edit: actually you're right, but you just picked the wrong example I think.
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Nov 15, 2017 19:58
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Rise of the Samurai would be the better example.
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Nov 15, 2017 19:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yeah, CA would never make a game about an obscure historical event! You're talking about the Medieval 2: Kingdoms expansion right? That's just a tiny DLC campaign, one among several others, in their game about medieval knights. Everyone loves knights and poo poo. The 30 Years War is still pretty weird and obscure outside of Europe, pike and shot tactics are too different from normal Total War gameplay, and to make an entire full-priced big-budget title based on it would be treading entirely new ground and it would be really ballsy for them to do it. I could be wrong though of course. I'm guessing they would do Three Kingdoms China. There's a ton of media adaptations of Romance of the Three Kingdoms that they can copy from, loads of video games and movies based on it and a popular TV show as well. I suppose they can re-skin some of their Shogun 2 stuff as well.
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Nov 15, 2017 20:45
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« Hmmm, I like vikings and Thor but this game, featuring bearded axemen and longships and crows in the marketing, is clearly about 9th and 10th century Britain. Pshah, pass. »-the average consumer
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Nov 15, 2017 20:46
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oh, sorry, your game about vikings doesn’t include the kievan rus’? i am not interested in the slightest
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Nov 15, 2017 20:48
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Vikings are insanely boring so this announcement makes me sad. Unironically
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Nov 15, 2017 20:50
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CharlestheHammer posted:Vikings are insanely boring so this announcement makes me sad. Anglo-saxons are hella cool tho!
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Nov 15, 2017 20:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Anglo-saxons are hella cool tho! Eh after aatilla I have had my fill of men with axes in fur coats.
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Nov 15, 2017 20:56
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Kenzie posted:The 30 Years War is still pretty weird and obscure outside of Europe, pike and shot tactics are too different from normal Total War gameplay, and to make an entire full-priced big-budget title based on it would be treading entirely new ground and it would be really ballsy for them to do it. I could be wrong though of course. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the game that features dragons, tanks, giant spiders and walking trees may be a larger departure from traditional Total War than a game with pikes and wheel locks.
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Nov 15, 2017 20:56
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turn off the TV posted:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the game that features dragons, tanks, giant spiders and walking trees may be a larger departure from traditional Total War than a game with pikes and wheel locks. I disagree, the key word being gameplay here. The unit graphics in Warhammer certainly look a lot different from the other games, but the basic gameplay and tactics are not really that different. Most units are just basic blocks of troops that form line, crash into each other and start hitting each other until hit points and morale go down, just like any other game. The AI is pretty much the same. Flying units are not much more than fast moving cavalry that can go over enemy units. Otherwise they're the same as any other. Giants and monsters are just units with more hit points. The biggest difference would probably be with spell-casting. Pike and shot warfare though? You start getting really weird looking formations with entirely different dynamics, like the four-cornered tercios:  Pike and shot warfare is about groups of skirmishers who retreat inside of hollow pike squares whenever threatened by cavalry. The pikes were usually not used to fight, but were there as a deterrent, to protect the shooters, with a standard unit being around 2/3rds shot and 1/3rd pike. Swordsmen would also hide inside the pike squares and launch sorties outside of them every now and then. You can do this in Total War, but it involves clicking on every individual gunpowder or sword unit one by one and moving them inside of a separate pike unit manually, and it would be impossible and horribly tedious to keep moving them back and forth inside and outside of their pike protection over and over again in a large battle. And there's no way they could get the AI to do that intelligently. A traditional Total War battle, including Warhammer, is all about hammer and anvil flanking tactics, with infantry in line and cav on the flanks, but in pike and shot warfare, this was often not the case, as each pike and shot unit could protect its own flanks as a self-contained combined arms unit. Army formations in the pike and shot era got to be very complicated, with deep, staggered checker-board formations with alternating infantry and cavalry instead of lines. The tactics are entirely different from anything in any Total War game. To make a good pike and shot game at the Total War scale, it would require a pretty big reworking of the battle engine, so that the gunpowder and pike troops can be integrated together into a single mixed unit. And this is in a game series where you're lucky if the AI pikemen can even point their pikes in the right direction at all.
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Nov 15, 2017 22:56
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god that drawing is terrible. I think they'd be able to throw something together somewhat easily with the box protection for individual (maybe mixed) squads or preset formations like shogun 2
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Nov 15, 2017 23:06
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I used Pike and Shot formations when playing as the Empire in Total Warhammer and they work.
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Nov 15, 2017 23:15
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Kenzie posted:I disagree, the key word being gameplay here. The unit graphics in Warhammer certainly look a lot different from the other games, but the basic gameplay and tactics are not really that different. Most units are just basic blocks of troops that form line, crash into each other and start hitting each other until hit points and morale go down, just like any other game. The AI is pretty much the same. Flying units are not much more than fast moving cavalry that can go over enemy units. Otherwise they're the same as any other. Giants and monsters are just units with more hit points. The biggest difference would probably be with spell-casting. I mean you can make the argument that Total War games don't do a good job of accurately representing Roman manipular formations and fighting, despite Rome being the title of two of their games.
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Nov 15, 2017 23:28
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ZearothK posted:I used Pike and Shot formations when playing as the Empire in Total Warhammer and they work. I did too, but they don't look or work much like historical pike and shot units and making a whole game based around using that tactic would look silly in the engine right now. And getting the AI to do it is a totally different matter. On the other hand, it's not like their historical games were ever very historical anyway. Here I am talking about historical tactics in a game series where you have medieval catapults that reload in 10 seconds and can shoot giant exploding rocks at enemy units 10 feet away. And flaming pigs. And elephants with giant cannons on their backs.
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Nov 15, 2017 23:28
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Kenzie posted:And elephants with giant cannons on their backs. This better be a unit in Total War WW1 
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Nov 15, 2017 23:35
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