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Freakazoid_ posted:This was something that was seriously considered a few years ago, not by robots but by libertarians. I can't find the article anymore, but the proposal was to take homeless/jobless people and confine them inside a pod with a computer and internet connection. The purpose was to generate revenue through the information gathered from their browsing. In return they got free food, water, and shelter, but were never allowed to leave the pod. The unrealistic part of that was that you need a confined pod or to provide basic needs to people to be able to do that. That's about the average understanding of the economy, human needs and basic morals I've come to expect from libertarians.
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Nov 15, 2017 15:00
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I really want someone to find that article because I can't find anything through googling. I love reading absolutely monstrous libertarian poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2017 17:23
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Blut posted:If you think Republican neo-cons are war hungry now just wait until they're able to invade other countries without risking a single American life. Quagmirish asymmetric warfare isn't going to work half as well as a deterrent against robot armies. Yeah but then the enemy starts fielding robots in defense and you have a meaningless robot vs robot war and that is how you get to some anime where all battles are settled with card battles or tennis or dance offs or something.
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Nov 15, 2017 19:23
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Or like that book where the AIs just play out the war in simulations and people then willingly step into an incinerator when they're "killed".
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Nov 15, 2017 19:45
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Cicero posted:Or like that book where the AIs just play out the war in simulations and people then willingly step into an incinerator when they're "killed". I thought this was an episode of star trek?
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Nov 16, 2017 13:54
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Yeah, maybe you're right.
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Nov 16, 2017 13:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah but then the enemy starts fielding robots in defense and you have a meaningless robot vs robot war and that is how you get to some anime where all battles are settled with card battles or tennis or dance offs or something. I dont think so, because even if you have robots fighting robots, they will fight over cities because thats a important political and economical asset. If your robots are not has good as protecting houses as the enemy robots are at destroying them, there will be unrest. Or maybe cities become unimportant. Only robot factories and the places where the 1% live will be important.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:16
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Thalantos posted:I thought this was an episode of star trek? It was but "what if both sides field robots to the point nothing real is actually happening in wars" is a sci-fi idea that has come up a LOT of times.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:16
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Thalantos posted:I thought this was an episode of star trek? You might be thinking of TNG episode The Arsenal of Freedom, where a planet exterminated itself of all its people through increasingly efficient killing machines stuck in the demonstration cycle of a war profiteer's sales pitch.
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Nov 17, 2017 03:44
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Freakazoid_ posted:You might be thinking of TNG episode The Arsenal of Freedom, where a planet exterminated itself of all its people through increasingly efficient killing machines stuck in the demonstration cycle of a war profiteer's sales pitch. I looked it up, it's a TOS episode called A Taste of Armageddon.
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Nov 17, 2017 04:53
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Bet they're going after drayage. http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/16/technology/tesla-semi-truck-reveal/index.html
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Nov 17, 2017 07:15
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I hear drayage companies bitching about it being impossible to meet new state emission standards for thier trucks all the time.
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Nov 17, 2017 07:17
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Watch out, gymnasts! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj34o4hN4I
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Nov 17, 2017 09:31
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https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/931401495920173056
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Nov 17, 2017 16:32
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This seems like the dumbest thing. 500 miles? That's a big nothing. How long to charge the batteries? How long before you can take the truck out again? Why would companies buy a truck with a massive downtime and a short range? The torque of the electric engine would be real nice though, that I admit.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:27
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:This seems like the dumbest thing. There's a lot of short distance freight traffic in the USA. 40% of the total value and 50% of the total weight of US freight traffic moves less than 100 miles. Looks like something like 60% of the value of all US freight traffic travels distances of less than 500 miles.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:32
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:This seems like the dumbest thing. Presumably it’ll be self driving and have drop in batteries, so any efficiency lost should be mitigated by routes and increased road time. I’m really excited to just have totally self driving semis on the road at all, though the article doesn’t make that claim.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:33
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Drayage you idiots. And again several west coast states have recently made drayage haulers have more restrictive emission standards, that many haulers are having trouble meeting...
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Nov 17, 2017 18:38
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Drayage is by far the hardest part to make self driving, I think they're shooting for the emissions reductions at this point
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Nov 17, 2017 18:41
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Trabisnikof posted:There's a lot of short distance freight traffic in the USA. 40% of the total value and 50% of the total weight of US freight traffic moves less than 100 miles. Looks like something like 60% of the value of all US freight traffic travels distances of less than 500 miles. I know that. But, as a for instance, most of the people I know that drive short-haul do between 400-600 miles a day. On any given day, there could be a number of complications that screw them over, adding time and miles to their trip. If you've got a diesel truck, no big deal. You find a place, you pull over, you fill up. If you've got an electric truck, you've got to sit there and wait- and since every driver can only operate for so long before they need to take a mandatory eight hour break... Speaking of fuel, how does the weight of the batteries compare with the weight of diesel? That certainly matters. If you get a heavy load, you can always cut back on fuel ( at least long enough to pass the scales ), but you can't really adjust battery weight, can you? If you buy these trucks, you're pretty much obligated to buy a lot of drop-in batteries, aren't you? Hubs share trucks between drivers. Nobody wants a truck just sitting around, not making money. Idiots are afraid of semis because they drive like idiots. The first time one of these kill someone, even if the human driver is 100% at fault, the headlines are going to be amazing.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:42
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Drayage you goddamn idiots. Container terminal gates tend to be open only during the day like 0800 to 1700.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:49
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:This seems like the dumbest thing. ElCondemn posted:Presumably it’ll be self driving and have drop in batteries, so any efficiency lost should be mitigated by routes and increased road time. I’m really excited to just have totally self driving semis on the road at all, though the article doesn’t make that claim. You guys are thinking about long-haul trucking. This is for travel between distribution centers and destination points. The first business to put down reservations is Meijer stores. There is no battery swapping, it charges like any other Tesla. Their plan is to set up chargers and sell electricity for 7 cents / KW*h. The chargers will be located at the loading/unloading docks, so you charge while you are transferring the cargo. One charge cycle takes 30 minutes.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:49
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Rastor posted:You guys are thinking about long-haul trucking. This is for travel between distribution centers and destination points. The first business to put down reservations is Meijer stores. Are there laws against a car company also owning the fuel source?
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Nov 17, 2017 18:53
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Rastor posted:You guys are thinking about long-haul trucking. This is for travel between distribution centers and destination points. The first business to put down reservations is Meijer stores. Not thinking long haul, no, but 500 miles on 30 minutes is a bit more attractive. The numbers I saw listed estimated it in the hours range. I guess that means you can't use it for drop and hooks though.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:01
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SimonCat posted:Are there laws against a car company also owning the fuel source? I don't believe anybody has ever raised a stink about the Tesla Superchargers. For the Tesla Semi they are introducing Megachargers. Here's the full presentation edited down to less than 10 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9xafjynJA
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Nov 17, 2017 19:07
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BrandorKP posted:Drayage is by far the hardest part to make self driving, I think they're shooting for the emissions reductions at this point People love electric engines in stuff like this. You just attach the motors to the wheels and it eliminates like 90% of the parts in a vehicle. There is a reason electric trains have been a thing for over 100 years and why there is so many big trains and warships and stuff based on running a generator with traditional fuel then using the generator to move a motor. The bigger and stronger and heavier the thing you are moving the less you want to deal with transmissions and engine cylinders and so on and the more you want to just turn a bunch of giant magnets on and off and attach the motors right to the thing you want moved.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:28
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Times has its version of the tesla article up, this is the part that matters:NYTs posted:As a result, Tesla is estimating it will cost $1.26 per mile to operate, compared with $1.51 a mile for a diesel truck. The cost can fall further — to 85 cents a mile, according to Tesla — if groups of trucks travel together in convoys, which reduces wind drag. “This beats rail,” Mr. Musk said. If true that's a bfd. Tesla Unveils an Electric Rival to Semi Trucks https://nyti.ms/2jxfSh0
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Nov 17, 2017 19:28
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Tesla has two more buyers for the Tesla Semi: J.B. Hunt Transport Services Inc. and Wal-Mart. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/wal-mart-says-its-planning-to-test-teslas-new-electric-trucks.html
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Nov 17, 2017 19:37
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Hunt's a surprise to me, but then again I don't interact with them much.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:41
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Rastor posted:Tesla has two more buyers for the Tesla Semi: J.B. Hunt Transport Services Inc. and Wal-Mart. That's surprising. Wal-Mart is so large I wouldn't expect them to be a first mover. Amazon must be putting the hurt on them. J.B. Hunt is pretty big too. "one of the largest transportation companies in the United States" according to Wikipedia. Big enough that I recognized the name even though I'm not involved in shipping at all.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:45
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BrandorKP posted:Times has its version of the tesla article up, this is the part that matters:
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Nov 17, 2017 19:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Seems like an even bigger deal in Europe, where cargo trucks move about 46% of freight compared to 30% in the US. Actually, I wonder how it shakes out given different fuel/electricity prices in other countries - the US has famously low gas prices, for its wealth, but US electricity prices are actually even lower relative to the prices in many European countries. The big thing is the cross over between door to door direct and intermodal. There is a distance afterwhich it makes sense to switch to intermodal instead of door to door with a truck. Distances between cities are further in the US so more goes intermodal rail. If they have truly brought down the cost per mile, this could push that distance crossover outwards. Also some customers strongly prefer door to door anyway (if you gently caress up intermodal you can get hosed pretty hard).
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Nov 17, 2017 21:29
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that thing would be awesome for trains, no more expensive time consumer break downs
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Nov 17, 2017 23:39
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so now that energy efficiency doesn't matter, what's the largest electric suv can you build?
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Nov 17, 2017 23:43
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Magius1337est posted:that thing would be awesome for trains, no more expensive time consumer break downs Electric trains have been a thing since the 1800s. Every city passenger train ever is an electric train. Much of europe and asia has entirely electric rail systems. A ton of freight trains are electric trains that just run off a generator.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:55
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I don't know a lot of engineering, but generally it seems that electric is one of those power sources that scales up very well, probably for the above-mentioned reasons of fewer moving parts. But there's a reason why everything from passenger trains to submarines have run on electricity, whether from power grids, generators or freaking nuclear reactors. (Hell, nuclear reactors are literally just steam engines running on uranium instead of coal, and they're also a technology that works better at larger scales. Steam trucks used to be a thing, but the main problem is they're unstable and fiddly) Sounds like electric trucks may well have their place. I bet they'd be liked for urban areas for being way less noisy too. But it'd probably require getting the trucking companies to shift their business model and possibly be less exploitative. (good luck) Magius1337est posted:so now that energy efficiency doesn't matter, what's the largest electric suv can you build? I'm reminded of the H2 Hummer. Although I'm sure there'd be a market for an electric hummerdinger. Call it the Thor.
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Nov 18, 2017 03:08
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While electric has significant transmission losses, it's the only power source I can think of that doesn't have prohibitive transmission losses beyond a few hundred meters.
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Nov 18, 2017 04:30
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BrandorKP posted:The big thing is the cross over between door to door direct and intermodal. There is a distance afterwhich it makes sense to switch to intermodal instead of door to door with a truck. Distances between cities are further in the US so more goes intermodal rail. If they have truly brought down the cost per mile, this could push that distance crossover outwards. Also some customers strongly prefer door to door anyway (if you gently caress up intermodal you can get hosed pretty hard). I learned a new term today 'drayage.' Thanks! Hey, I've always been sort of passively fascinated with freight transport and how it all works. When you say gently caress up intermodal do you mean like a TEU gets put on a wrong train or something?
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Nov 18, 2017 17:21
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Arglebargle III posted:While electric has significant transmission losses, it's the only power source I can think of that doesn't have prohibitive transmission losses beyond a few hundred meters. People overstate transmission losses it's like 10% tops. With distributed generation even that is removed. Voltage conversion is like 98% efficient and you do that a few times tops. It's possible to get to over 99% efficiency but ko one bothers. Electricity is rapidly becoming 100% green at competitive prices (renewables aren't affected much by the commodities markets on oil and coal) so that canard will ideally be shot dead.
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Nov 18, 2017 18:18
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Electric motors own hard for working machines since they have shitloads of torque and are compact and reliable and durable. A motor has like 3 parts: spinny bit, fixed bit and control electronics. An engine is vastly more complicated. A non trivial amount of pollution comes from commercial vehicles like backhoes and refrigerated trucks that use lovely diesel engines to inefficiently burn oil sort of like the cargo ships that burn the cheapest dirtiest bunker When they turn electric-- and they will because the economics are so insanely favorable-- goodbye to a lot of city pollution and goodbye to a lot of industry supporting engines.
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Nov 18, 2017 18:22
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