Auspol Nov - No we didn't leak this thread to the media

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol Nov - No we didn't leak this thread to the media

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thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

have you asked them where they saw it last?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 13:06

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 14:02

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

Gorilla Salad posted:

Given how hard Australia worked to 'breed' Aboriginals out of existence and how Aboriginal melanin is a recessive gene and Aboriginal people can struggle every single day of their lives because ignorant people are all too ready to tell them they don't deserve their identity and heritage because they don't pass the loving paper bag test, then yes, it really is a problem you have that opinion because it is an issue facing indigenous people today.

If I can't identify a person's race based on their appearance how am I meant to be able to determine if I should discriminate against them? If someone has never faced discrimination, how can they possibly be expected to represent a group of people who face it on a daily basis? Or is it possible that most indigenous people don't face racial discrimination from the average punter, and gain benefits at the expense of indigenous people living in remote communities who face genuine problems because of their race, but due to media misrepresentation of the average indigenous person as living in a remote communitiy, we will never see how all the benefits we pay for never go towards the people who actually need it?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:35

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

yikes

# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:49

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

BBJoey posted:

yikes

yikes indeed

I recently read an ABC article that addressed this very issue:

quote:

Ryan Griffen, creator of Cleverman
The question that I no longer want to hear is when people ask "what percentage Aboriginal" I am.

When I say that I'm an Aboriginal man, and they say, "Well, look at your skin colour, you're not," � it really infuriates me.

When there have been laws passed, and there are systemic forms of racism that have been about diluting Aboriginal genes and stealing children, I shouldn't have to debate who I am anymore.

When you come at me with a question like that, you're just adhering to the forms of racism that the assimilation process and the Stolen Generation were built on.

People should just be able to be who they want to be. I'm a proud Aboriginal man, and questions like that really detract from the journey that I'm on.

regardless of how a person looks, you cannot assume that they're not affected by racism and discrimination. Andrew Bolt publicly vilified a group of Aboriginal people because they weren't black enough for him. That sort of thinking is racist in and of itself. Having to justify your Aboriginality is incredibly problematic for a lot of people, especially when, as Gorilla Salad and the article pointed out, the basis for a lot of Australian policy for decades was to 'breed out' the Aboriginality, stamp out Aboriginal cultures, and steal children that could 'pass' as being non-Aboriginal.

The Before Times fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 19, 2017

# ? Nov 19, 2017 21:54

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

The Before Times posted:

so, the Australian Christian Lobby actually drafted Paterson's bill: https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2017/11/18/turnbulls-reality-check-the-mail/15109236005513

I stand corrected.

https://twitter.com/SenPaterson/status/931758361212731392

It's one thing to be a snake, but a lying liar snake is indefensible, James.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:18

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Salted_Pork posted:

If I can't identify a person's race based on their appearance how am I meant to be able to determine if I should discriminate against them? If someone has never faced discrimination, how can they possibly be expected to represent a group of people who face it on a daily basis? Or is it possible that most indigenous people don't face racial discrimination from the average punter, and gain benefits at the expense of indigenous people living in remote communities who face genuine problems because of their race, but due to media misrepresentation of the average indigenous person as living in a remote communitiy, we will never see how all the benefits we pay for never go towards the people who actually need it?

Ultimately you're arguing for a test of whiteness, which is a laughable idea in a country of immigrants and first peoples, and you throw them under the bus for getting illicit benefits as well. The local branch of the KKK is yours for the asking.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:21

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

ewe2 posted:

Ultimately you're arguing for a test of whiteness, which is a laughable idea in a country of immigrants and first peoples, and you throw them under the bus for getting illicit benefits as well. The local branch of the KKK is yours for the asking.

From what I understood, benefits are meant to be the government's way of compensating non-whites for a lack of white privilege, to ensure all people have equal opportunity in Australia. If this is the case, how is it ok that white skinned aboriginal people get both benefits and white privilege? Or am I misunderstanding the point of benefits in this country?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:33

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

Salted_Pork posted:

From what I understood, benefits are meant to be the government's way of compensating non-whites for a lack of white privilege, to ensure all people have equal opportunity in Australia. If this is the case, how is it ok that white skinned aboriginal people get both benefits and white privilege? Or am I misunderstanding the point of benefits in this country?

what sort of benefits do you think Aboriginal people get?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:36

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

lol if u think light-skinned aboriginal people enjoy the full benefits of white privilege

as one small example, consider the centuries of oppression and generational trauma that aboriginal people face; that doesn�t go away just because someone can pass as white.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:39

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

BBJoey posted:

lol if u think light-skinned aboriginal people enjoy the full benefits of white privilege

as one small example, consider the centuries of oppression and generational trauma that aboriginal people face; that doesn�t go away just because someone can pass as white.

exactly.

not just that, but you get fucks coming along and trying to tell you you're not aboriginal enough and that you're somehow gaming the system for extra benefits. fuuuuck offffff

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:42

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

The Before Times posted:

what sort of benefits do you think Aboriginal people get?

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/subjects/support-indigenous-australians

https://theaspirationinitiative.com.au/indigenous-scholarships

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Abor...ax-obligations/

https://www.employment.gov.au/increasing-indigenous-public-sector-employment

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:43

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

what�s the takeup rate and budget impact of targeted indigenous programs do you think

spoilers: both are tiny percentages because 1) they�re critically underfunded 2) they�re often only tangential at best to the issues faced by disadvantaged aboriginal people (ie the problem isn�t getting funding to attend tafe/uni, it�s attending tafe/uni in the first place) 3) views like yours creating a chilling effect against accepting help

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:48

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

lol you linked to the policy of increasing aboriginal participation in the aps? my department had all of ~10 people~ in this year�s indigenous trainee program. that�s the level of support you�re wringing your hands over here

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:51

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

BBJoey posted:

lol you linked to the policy of increasing aboriginal participation in the aps? my department had all of ~10 people~ in this year’s indigenous trainee program. that’s the level of support you’re wringing your hands over here

How many people are in your department's trainee program that are not indigenous?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 22:57

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

37, and they�re paid $7,000 more each than indigenous trainees

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:05

noyes: Nov 10, 2017; by FactsAreUseless

see also: people getting up in arms about tertiary scholarships for indigenous kids. yes there are quite a few of them and they're all for eye-popping sums of money like... $2000/year (which gets you accommodation in sydney for about six weeks, and lol if you think they get any support whatsoever once the scholarship money is gone)

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:18

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

BBJoey posted:

37, and they’re paid $7,000 more each than indigenous trainees

So you don't think indigenous people in your trainee group making up >20% of trainee population, but indigenous people in Australia making up 3.3% of the population is evidence that there are government programs (benefits) designed to increase the hiring of indigenous people?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:19

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

ewe2 posted:

I stand corrected.

https://twitter.com/SenPaterson/status/931758361212731392

It's one thing to be a snake, but a lying liar snake is indefensible, James.

huh

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:26

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

you�re trying to dispute a point i never made. you�re arguing that light skinned aboriginal people aren�t deserving of government assistance. i�m arguing that they absolutely are, and even if you accept that white-passing aboriginal people enjoy some amount of white privilege, their accepting assistance is probably last on the list of government programs being rorted that we need to worry about due to the chronic lack of funding for indigenous targeted support.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:28

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Monash has an indigenous law club and it's literally a bunch of white people with white names from white families on part scholarships embarking on careers in mainstream law firms.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:29

Konomex: Oct 25, 2010; a whiteman who has some authority over others, who not only hasn't raped anyone, or stared at them creepily...

Salted_Pork posted:

So you don't think indigenous people in your trainee group making up >20% of trainee population, but indigenous people in Australia making up 3.3% of the population is evidence that there are government programs (benefits) designed to increase the hiring of indigenous people?

I'm sorry, but do you not understand how government programs are designed to reduce institutionalised poverty? You have a large group of disenfranchised people, and you want us to have some sort of test for whiteness? Or to treat everyone identically, which the government is very clearly unwilling to fund.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:30

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Salted_Pork posted:

So you don't think indigenous people in your trainee group making up >20% of trainee population, but indigenous people in Australia making up 3.3% of the population is evidence that there are government programs (benefits) designed to increase the hiring of indigenous people?

wowzers

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:41

Salted_Pork: Jun 19, 2011

BBJoey posted:

you’re trying to dispute a point i never made. you’re arguing that light skinned aboriginal people aren’t deserving of government assistance. i’m arguing that they absolutely are, and even if you accept that white-passing aboriginal people enjoy some amount of white privilege, their accepting assistance is probably last on the list of government programs being rorted that we need to worry about due to the chronic lack of funding for indigenous targeted support.

I'm arguing that people who aren't facing discrimination based on their skin colour shouldn't receive any portion of funding devoted to people facing discrimination based on skin colour. Your counter argument seems to be that worse things are happening else where so we should ignore it.

In that case I suggest we devote all government assistance funding to improving quality of life in third world nations, and attempting to halt population growth as soon as possible, in order to reduce to equilibrium population of the globe, and increase the total share each of us gets of the suns resources (174 TW) in our 100% renewable future.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:47

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Lambie �warned of drink problem�

Former crossbench senator Jacqui Lambie was warned consistently about her �excessive alcohol consumption� while she was at work, travelling for work and while meeting with stakeholders, according to allegations filed by her former chief of staff.

In an amended statement of claim filed to the Federal Court, Rob Messenger claims he warned Ms Lambie about her problematic workplace drinking on a ��regular basis� between 2014 and 2016, as well as complaining about her drinking at 11 public events.

Mr Messenger alleged he told Ms Lambie her alcohol-affected behaviour would be considered a breach of �work health and safety and bullying�.

The new allegations are part of a broadened lawsuit Mr Messenger and his wife Fern have filed against Ms Lambie for unlawful dismissal.

Ms Lambie resigned from the Senate last week after being �embroiled in the dual citizenship fiasco but has vowed a political comeback and would consider running for the Tasmanian lower house seat of Braddon.

Ms Lambie yesterday denied Mr Messenger�s claims.

�Rob Messenger�s amendments are full of false claims and Jacqui looks forward to the �opportunity to defend herself against them, but as it is before the courts, Jacqui cannot comment further,� a spokeswoman for Ms Lambie said.

Mr Messenger said he could not say anything further about Ms Lambie because he had signed a 10-year confidentially contract when he worked in her office.

�If Jacqui Lambie isn�t scared of the truth and has nothing to hide then she will tear up those staff confidentially contracts,�� he said.

�The people of Tasmania �deserve to hear all the facts and both sides of the story before they �decide on Jacqui Lambie�s political future.�

The Australian understands Mr Messenger wants to work for Ms Lambie�s replacement, Steve Martin, but the incoming senator is reluctant to hire him, fearing it will annoy the party leader.

Mr Messenger has accused the office of Malcolm Turnbull of being behind a leak of his initial complaints about Ms Lambie when he alleged she had taken staff shopping for sex toys, spoken inappropriately and incoherently, and engaged in �unpredictable� and �angry� behaviour.

Mr Messenger, a former Liberal National Party and independent Queensland MP who was introduced to Ms Lambie via �mining magnate Clive Palmer, also claimed the Tasmanian ridiculed staff who took sick leave, suggesting it was inappropriate or a sign of weakness.

As a result, Mr Messenger�s amended statement of claim says he was scared to take sick leave and accrued 300 hours.

He accused Ms Lambie of telling him she wanted to replace a staff member who took carer�s leave to visit her mother in palliative care.

Mr Messenger yesterday said he did nothing wrong and only tried to ensure staff members had a safe workplace.

�The government and Jacqui Lambie have the power to sort out this mess in mediation,�� he said. �If they don�t then we�ll all go into to the witness box under oath and a judge can work out who�s telling the truth and what happened.�

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/lambie-warned-of-drink-problem/news-story/3ca8e35a16c5e50c008bf2dbc6dd785b

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:49

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

LNP senator pushes for inquiry into banks

Queensland LNP senator Barry O'Sullivan says up to four federal lower house MPs are considering crossing the floor to support his push for a commission of inquiry into banks.

Senator O'Sullivan plans to introduce a private bill to the upper house which is set to pass with the support of Labor and the Greens.

He expects a handful of MPs will join fellow Queensland LNP MP George Christensen in crossing the floor in the House of Representatives to set up the inquiry.

"They show an almost autistic (sic) disregard for prudential regulation and law, and it's time for these people to have their day in court," Senator O'Sullivan told ABC radio on Monday.

Senator O'Sullivan believes Liberal Dean Smith's same-sex marriage bill has created a new pathway for backbenchers to pursue matters of personal importance.

"I'm simply following along in his footsteps," Senator O'Sullivan said.

He said millions of Australians has been affected by banks which should be forced to answer to the inquiry.

"If both houses of the parliament think this a good thing to do and that is the decision, I think the prime minister has to sit up and take note of that," Senator O'Sullivan said.

Cabinet minister Steve Ciobo rejected the renewed push for an inquiry, arguing the government has already taken more immediate action.

"We've given more money and more teeth to the banking regulators, in particular to both ASIC and to APRA," Mr Ciobo told ABC Radio.

Australian Bankers Association chief executive Anna Bligh said the inquiry was an extraordinary and unnecessary step which could cost taxpayers up to $53 million.

"The justification that's being used publicly for these actions by this group of senators are seeking revenge for the fact they didn't get their way in the same-sex marriage debate," she told ABC radio.

Senator O'Sullivan will introduce the bill to the Senate once the same-sex marriage bill had been dealt with, making it likely to hit parliament before the end of the year.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/lnp-senator-pushes-for-inquiry-into-banks/news-story/9a1f54c8e875307686fcf962655c9fb1

I would blow Dane Cook fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Nov 19, 2017

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:50

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

People who claim they think the benefits should go to "real" Aboriginals (who obviously all live out in the bush with spears) are like people who think refugee resettlement should be the preserve of "real" refugees (the ones conveniently stuck in camps over in Africa, not the ones who managed to turn up on our doorstep). Classic whataboutism.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:52

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

Salted_Pork posted:

I'm arguing that people who aren't facing discrimination based on their skin colour shouldn't receive any portion of funding devoted to people facing discrimination based on skin colour.

How do you reckon we should measure this? Dulux chart on the wall at Centrelink? What's your proposal for the acceptable hue where someone is no longer considered Aboriginal? Or do you reckon it should be on some kind of sliding scale where you get less money the whiter you are?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:54

Don Dongington: Sep 27, 2005; #ideasboom; College Slice

Salted_Pork posted:

I'm arguing that people who aren't facing discrimination based on their skin colour shouldn't receive any portion of funding devoted to people facing discrimination based on skin colour. Your counter argument seems to be that worse things are happening else where so we should ignore it.

In that case I suggest we devote all government assistance funding to improving quality of life in third world nations, and attempting to halt population growth as soon as possible, in order to reduce to equilibrium population of the globe, and increase the total share each of us gets of the suns resources (174 TW) in our 100% renewable future.

Bolt parachute account confirmed.

Walk into the sea and stab yourself in the face, TIA

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:54

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

freebooter posted:

How do you reckon we should measure this? Dulux chart on the wall at Centrelink? What's your proposal for the acceptable hue where someone is no longer considered Aboriginal? Or do you reckon it should be on some kind of sliding scale where you get less money the whiter you are?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:55

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

quote:

"They show an almost autistic (sic) disregard for prudential regulation and law, and it's time for these people to have their day in court," Senator O'Sullivan told ABC radio on Monday.

Wtf is that even meant to mean?

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:56

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

^autistic people famously hate rules and love to break them

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/lnp-senator-pushes-for-inquiry-into-banks/news-story/9a1f54c8e875307686fcf962655c9fb1

I love how open theyre being that its only to spite turnbull.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:58

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/lambie-warned-of-drink-problem/news-story/3ca8e35a16c5e50c008bf2dbc6dd785b

If this is true, come the gently caress on. Sounds like she was a really horrible people manager.

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:59

Dude McAwesome: Sep 30, 2004; Still better than a Ponytar

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:

I love how open theyre being that its only to spite turnbull.

�Stable� �government�

# ? Nov 19, 2017 23:59

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

norp posted:

Wtf is that even meant to mean?

Autistic replaced retarded as the thing you call people you think are dumb in 2010 and O'Sullivan is still a few years behind.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:00

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:

I love how open theyre being that its only to spite turnbull.

"How dare you really, really weakly remove a layer of discrimination! We'll show you, we'll actually give some money back to poor people :argh:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:00

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

Salted_Pork posted:

I'm arguing that people who aren't facing discrimination based on their skin colour shouldn't receive any portion of funding devoted to people facing discrimination based on skin colour. Your counter argument seems to be that worse things are happening else where so we should ignore it.

In that case I suggest we devote all government assistance funding to improving quality of life in third world nations, and attempting to halt population growth as soon as possible, in order to reduce to equilibrium population of the globe, and increase the total share each of us gets of the suns resources (174 TW) in our 100% renewable future.

Your focus on skin colour is misplaced. Cultural discrimination and disadvantage is the problem that those programs are trying to address. As such, it doesn't matter what colour someone's skin is, just what culture they are from.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:00

Ten Becquerels: Apr 17, 2012; My Little Tony: Leadership is Magic

Delurking to politely ask that people stop trying to debate every obvious troll that comes into the thread as if they're going to get anywhere with them. Thank you.

In other news, renewable energy continues to be cheaper and better than desperately clinging onto coal. Seriously hoping the Liberals finally implode over SSM so that we can stop having these fuckwits trying to convince people that coal is great and totally won't completely gently caress our supposed commitment to the Paris agreement.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:14

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

Look at how dumb the LNP in Victoria is. They want to spend $5bn to remove 50 red lights (because it's red lights and not the sheer volume of cars on the road that cause congestion) while using the sale of the Vic govts share in the snowy hydro scheme to help fund it.

quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-20/opposition-signals-traffic-congestion-a-key-election-issue/9166410

Traffic lights would be removed from more than 50 congested road intersections with new underpasses created under a $5 billion pitch from Matthew Guy to voters concerned about congestion in Melbourne and Geelong.

Seizing on the popularity of level crossing removals, the Opposition is marking one year before the state election with the major infrastructure announcement, which would be partly funded by the sale of Snowy Hydro.

If elected, Mr Guy plans to create underpasses at dozens of major intersections to remove traffic lights. The policy would cost between $4.1 billion and $5.3 billion.

Census data shows 74 per cent of Melburnians drive to work every day.

Under the plan, 35 intersections would be removed with the preference for underpasses to be created rather than ugly road flyovers.

Mr Guy has pledged to consult with local communities, engineers and local government.

The 35 intersections are scattered throughout suburban Melbourne, with two also earmarked for removal in Geelong.

Twenty more sites would be identified if the Coalition wins government.

The Coalition estimates the project would create 5,000 jobs during construction.

"These will be freeway style, clover interchanges," Mr Guy said.

"Despite the level crossing removal program's benefits to traffic along Melbourne's train lines, over one million people continue to sit in gridlocked traffic on other parts of the road network."

Mr Guy said reports showed the cost of congestion to the economy by the end of 2022 � after the next term of government � would be $7.24 billion.

The Opposition said the State Government would contribute up to $1.75 billion to the project with the same level of cash from the Commonwealth.

A further $1.8 billion would come from the sale of Victoria's share of the Snowy Hydro scheme.

The Turnbull Government has flagged interest in buying Victoria's slice.

Improved traffic flow 'good for business'

"Removing these suburban congestion hotspots will make our roads safer and keep traffic flowing which means less time spent sitting in gridlock and more time at home with family and friends," Mr Guy said.

"It also means people like tradies, couriers and salespeople who use the roads to get between jobs, will be able to do so more quickly. That's good for business and good for jobs."

The Coalition is set to spend big on roads in its pitch to Victorians in 2018, with Mr Guy already committing to revive the East West Link as well as build the North East Link which Labor has already began preliminary work on.

The Andrews Government's level crossing removals have proven popular and its infrastructure agenda will also be a key part of its platform to retain office at next year's election.

I bolded the quote from Matthew "Corrupt fuckhead" Guy so that I could point out what a colverleaf style intersection is for people that don't know:

Oh yes, that is exactly what a city needs more of!

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:29

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

But debating obvious trolls is what we do! It wouldn't be AusPol any more if we stopped. You are advocating cultural vandalism. For shame.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:31

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 14:02

Schlesische: Jul 4, 2012

I like how they're going back to talking about roads. Because their last campaign about how they were gonna build roads was such a massive vote winner.
It will be interesting to see what DAndrews announces on infrastructure in Melb.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 00:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol Nov - No we didn't leak this thread to the media

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