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Monglo posted:The existence of a person who trolls on the internet, but doesn't hold the views he's portraying doesn't seem that impossible to me. Is having a non-black/white worldview that difficult for you? Here's an idea- there's no meaningful difference between being an rear end in a top hat, and 'pretending' to be an rear end in a top hat. Certainly not to the targets of harassment.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:31
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Guys did you see this sick burn on this depressed gay kid, I bet he hung himself LOL! Fuckin trannies amirite! O-oh, but no in person I'm just a mild mannered liberal, I even voted for marriage equality before. (Replace with racial slurs and whatever else as needed)
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Nov 19, 2017 20:35
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JVNO posted:Here's an idea- there's no meaningful difference between being an rear end in a top hat, and 'pretending' to be an rear end in a top hat. Almost every time Jeremy Clarkson comes up in conversation, there's about 40000 nerds going all "oh but he gets paid to be a shithead" which, of course, is true. He's also a shithead on his free time though. How would a non-rear end in a top hat even go about pretending to be an rear end in a top hat all the time? Never mind that for all intents and purposes humanity at large would think they were one and treat them as one which would make their life hell.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:37
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rear end in a top hat, like racist, is a descriptor, not an identity.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:40
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OwlFancier posted:rear end in a top hat, like racist, is a descriptor, not an identity. What about "Nazi"?
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Nov 19, 2017 20:54
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Monglo posted:What about "Nazi"? Duh? You're not born a Nazi, you become one through your actions. You support white supremacy and spread Nazi memes, guess what, you a Nazi.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:15
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Genocyber posted:Duh? You're not born a Nazi, you become one through your actions. You support white supremacy and spread Nazi memes, guess what, you a Nazi. Is identity exclusively something you are born with?
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Nov 19, 2017 21:22
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Monglo posted:What about "Nazi"? A specific combination of racist and rear end in a top hat, thus also a descriptor.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:22
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OwlFancier posted:rear end in a top hat, like racist, is a descriptor, not an identity. Your grasp of language is about on par with your views on interior design I guess.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:28
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Jerry Cotton posted:Your grasp of language is about on par with your views on interior design I guess. 
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Nov 19, 2017 21:29
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Monglo posted:What about "Nazi"? Actually, only registered members of the national socialist party are nazis. 
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Nov 19, 2017 21:50
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Insurrectionist posted:Destiny's main schtick other than playing game was the once-popular 'rational' stance of words don't mean anything so everyone should be free to use slurs whenever they want because also language has been transformed and those words mean different things now (unless they don't, in which case they don't mean anything) and context is all that matters so if you're not dressed like a Klansman carrying a noose around then saying friend of the family is fine etc. I'm sure we all remember the good old days when this kind of poo poo was the discussion du jour rather than literal nazis and poo poo, this was pre-GG and all, I mean this sentiment obviously is still around but it's kinda gotten eclipsed by all the other awful acts and opinions around nowadays. He also just loved being contrarian against everything and debating all kinds of poo poo. At the time most of this stuff at least got confronted, downvoted on the Starcraft reddit etc although Destiny still retained popularity as a streamer. He moved to other games eventually and I never paid attention to it until I started seeing him posted here and poo poo. According to his first video with Bunty 1) he didn't send the girl dick pics she got them some how and tweeted them publicly because they had had an argument and 2) she wasn't underage. Actually he addresses a few "I heard Destiny did XYZ" stories in that video.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:57
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"I didn't send her dick pics she got them somehow" suggests that you're probably still sending people dick pics, mind.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:00
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Sax Solo posted:It's not just a poor vocabulary. It's really tough for dudes to navigate all the masculinity status minefield bullshit to ever say anything at all. That stuttering isn't someone with a bad vocabulary, it's someone who is trapped like a rat by gender. What Destiny is doing in that video is, like, emotional labor and it's actually kind of valuable socially, though I loving hate listening to it. i'm not seeing the connection between masculinity performativity and poverty of speech. i think this is a guy who spends most his days playing video games and reading idiots on chat, where brevity is the rule and no one is going to use complex words or syntax. i.e. i don't think it's gender that's the cause of poor vocabulary, but rather that the guy is just not well read. seriously, show me a major streamer with even a little erudition, those skills are irrelevant in streaming. and imo the point of being that sort of figure; a big time streamer, let's-player and whatnot, is to come off as relatable to the millions of teenage boys tuning in to watch. perhaps an eight grade vocabulary and mannerisms of a 12 year old are advantageous. Fututor Magnus fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 22:09
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Being well read is unmasculine in some circles, and especially being able to articulate emotive subjects fluently. Of course the great thing about being a dude is that you can ignore that and you probably won't get called on it but it is a thing.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:16
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nickmeister posted:According to his first video with Bunty 1) he didn't send the girl dick pics she got them some how and tweeted them publicly because they had had an argument and 2) she wasn't underage. I couldn't really remember poo poo about it so I searched it up and it turns out not only might those things both be true and yet it was still even uglier than I remember lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/ytijd/effortpost_starcraft_2_player_steve_bonnell_aka/ TL;DR: has girlfriend, flirts with young fan (seems she might have been of age at least at the time of the drama) and gets her nudes, shares her nudes with his friends. All of this he outright admits to so it's not even a he-said-she-said thing. Said fan finds out because one of his friends anonymously tells her about it, Destiny ignores her when she tries to confront him, she has access to his mail and takes over his social media to post his dick pics (which she claims he sent her as well, but again who knows). Also did I mention through all of this he had a different girlfriend?
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Nov 19, 2017 22:25
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OwlFancier posted:Being well read is unmasculine in some circles, and especially being able to articulate emotive subjects fluently. i don't discount that, but in other circles it's erudition that's seen as masculine, especially if you use that for social domination and such (rather than for emotive subjects, such as poetry and whatnot, though it's obv. not so simple). but in this case with streamers, and i'm going to say internet stardom in general, i think there is no selection for erudition for the most part. except in cases where the façade of erudition is an asset, which is what you see with sargon, jordan petersen, and so on. in short, i don't think this destiny guy is dumb because the cultural norms of masculinity demands it, but rather because he's just... dumb. and for what he's doing, it doesn't matter (and might even help).
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Nov 19, 2017 22:28
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I think in a lot of the gaming circle erudition is very specifically unmasculine in the same way it is when you're 12 and in school, because a lot of them are 12 and in school, and a lot of the celebrities are mentally 12 and in school. It is not an environment that cultivates any sort of positive concept of masculinity and one I think that helps enforce a particularly negative concept of it.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:34
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OwlFancier posted:Of course the great thing about being a dude is that you can ignore that and you probably won't get called on it but it is a thing. You can see that taken to its ultimate form with transmisogyny, where trans women and the idea of 'becoming a woman' are seen as something to be both feared and mocked, whereas trans men, especially buff masc trans men, aren't to nearly the same degree, provided they don't do something like get pregnant or menstruate. I think it's more like Fututor Magnus posted:it's erudition that's seen as masculine, especially if you use that for social domination and such The smart tweed coated British academic triggering the libs and feminists with hard rational logic is hilarious to them for the same reason that the Marxist intellectual being 'owned' by the blue collar real working class guy is, because it's a power play for the advancement of the team they're invested with. If the smart tweed coated guy turns out to actually be a rigorous academic and thus against team shitass then suddenly he's an out of touch elitist again, it's all about power plays against the bad people.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:39
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Fututor Magnus posted:i don't discount that, but in other circles it's erudition that's seen as masculine, especially if you use that for social domination and such (rather than for emotive subjects, such as poetry and whatnot, though it's obv. not so simple). Destiny can actually articulate a point. The guy who he is speaking to, who mentally lives in high school, is the the idiot. If you just watch 10 minutes of that video you will notice the "But, but, but, hear me out, I just wanna say, you know man, like, I literally, but, but what I was trying to say is, I mean I don't, you know like" etc. forever.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:43
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I was thinking in the sense that I consciously cultivate a personality modeled solely (somewhat by necessity) on the women in my life and nobody has ever objected, probably because I'm still 6'1" and built like a brick shithouse so I have that wonderful masculine intimidation thing going on. Whereas I'm not sure that many women would get away with the same degree of transgression. In fact I know they don't because I know several women that get poo poo for being too butch for the crime of being serious and wearing trousers.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:46
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OwlFancier posted:I think in a lot of the gaming circle erudition is very specifically unmasculine in the same way it is when you're 12 and in school, because a lot of them are 12 and in school, and a lot of the celebrities are mentally 12 and in school. i can't say anything about the average ages of people who watch streamers, but i doubt it's just pre-adolescents and adolescents. there seem to be plenty of 4chan types among destiny's following, and posting on 4chan never made anyone smart. but i'm not convinced that erudition is shunned for being masculine rather than just not required. it's interesting to consider what conceptions of masculinity you would find floating around on internet gaming circles. i think the focus is on gaming proficiency, and when you're selecting for that skill in particular, you're obviously going to get people who've never read a book since school and who spend most of their waking hours in front of computer playing games. this sort of thing is really annoying when it comes to youtube game reviewers like angry joe, dunkey and the like. their "insight" into games are always so trite and superficial. playing games a lot doesn't give you the skills to talk about them in a critical sense. when it comes to masculine performativity, i think the most obvious behavior in internet gaming people related to that is the general expectation that you have a dominating presence (even if you swear at your followers and scream like a harpy). also, not flinching at 4chan humour, otherwise you're a gay SJW. you can see that poo poo at work with anthony fantano, for one, where he has come to embody a very disgusting conception of masculinity simply to be cool.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:55
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Midig posted:Destiny can actually articulate a point. The guy who he is speaking to, who mentally lives in high school, is the the idiot. If you just watch 10 minutes of that video you will notice the "But, but, but, hear me out, I just wanna say, you know man, like, I literally, but, but what I was trying to say is, I mean I don't, you know like" etc. forever. which is why i'm not surprised that destiny lacks any erudition if he's surrounded by idiots like these. but, if he were intelligent, he wouldnt have ended up with an audience that's so stupid. there's selection going on both ways, dumb streamer accumulates following of equally if not more dumb people, and said dumb audience keeps streamer from developing intellectually. Guavanaut posted:The smart tweed coated British academic triggering the libs and feminists with hard rational logic is hilarious to them for the same reason that the Marxist intellectual being 'owned' by the blue collar real working class guy is, because it's a power play for the advancement of the team they're invested with. that's obviously the case in political / politicized circles, but in more apolitical (obv. not totally apolitical) circles like gaming people like ben shapiro have no place. people like ben shapiro fill the role of making right-wingers feel smart when they see libruls being epicly pwned. in gaming, it seems to me that less intelligent forms of social domination come out on top, and that likely has some source in the conceptions of masculinity that go around in gaming circles. Fututor Magnus fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 23:00
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Fututor Magnus posted:i can't say anything about the average ages of people who watch streamers, but i doubt it's just pre-adolescents and adolescents. there seem to be plenty of 4chan types among destiny's following, and posting on 4chan never made anyone smart. but i'm not convinced that erudition is shunned for being masculine rather than just not required. i think it depends what your looking for. people like angry joe/ dunkey(who is more of joke concept) others arnt trying to do some super deep thematic critical thing. they are doing a basic, is the game fun/good/not broken review. if you want deeper stuff. go for errant signal or super bunny hop or Noah Caldwell-Gervais. all of those dudes are great at that stuff. personaly. i dont watch streamers. i'll watch super best friends for interesting conversations and oney plays/vinesauce group for humor.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:04
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think it depends what your looking for. people like angry joe/ dunkey(who is more of joke concept) others arnt trying to do some super deep thematic critical thing. they are doing a basic, is the game fun/good/not broken review. if you want deeper stuff. go for errant signal or super bunny hop or Noah Caldwell-Gervais. all of those dudes are great at that stuff. yeah, i know. i just wanted to make the point that a lack of erudition is advantageous in gaming circles, because far more people consider angry joe an authority on video games than noah gervais, as evidenced by the views each get respectively. obviously the video length factor is also there (i like to watch / hear longform videos while exercising, but an angry joe video can be finished in one sitting). perhaps gamers generally don't bother in thinking much about the media they consume. i wonder if that has anything to do with masculinity? is critical analysis seen as too nerdy, even to gamers? but there's one obvious reason i can discern why someone might love angry joe but not noah gervais or campster, is because the former will never bring up feminism or any other SJW ideology. speaking of which, i've seen a few youtubers (very small-time) doing game critiques from a right-wing or at least "anti-SJW" position, and they were really bad and pseudointellectualism to the extreme. e: what i mean is that when you bring up feminism ever, the average gamer will dismiss you as an ideologue bringing your pernicious SJW ideology into muh pure video game. Fututor Magnus fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 23:18
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Fututor Magnus posted:yeah, i know. i just wanted to make the point that a lack of erudition is advantageous in gaming circles, because far more people consider angry joe an authority on video games than noah gervais, as evidenced by the views each get respectively. obviously the video length factor is also there (i like to watch / hear longform videos while exercising, but an angry joe video can be finished in one sitting). perhaps gamers generally don't bother in thinking much about the media they consume. i wonder if that has anything to do with masculinity? is critical analysis seen as too nerdy, even to gamers? maybe but i think when most people are looking for game reviews, they arnt looking for some long forum college dissertation about how whatever. they want to know if its worth the 60 or so bucks. i am not saying your fully wrong. there are plenty of good sites/youtubers for good critical stuff. and no poo poo the right wing ones are bad.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:23
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Groovelord Neato posted:they're also very very very dumb. well yeah that too
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Nov 20, 2017 00:05
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Fututor Magnus posted:but there's one obvious reason i can discern why someone might love angry joe but not noah gervais or campster, is because the former will never bring up feminism or any other SJW ideology. Joe's been fairly outspoken sometimes actually, they already poo poo on the cheeto golem and things they tried or are trying, on twitter anyway because they don't usually weigh in on stuff in their vidyagaem videos past anti-consumer stuff.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:59
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angry joe got mad critics dumped on suicide squad lmao
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Nov 20, 2017 02:00
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Insurrectionist posted:I couldn't really remember poo poo about it so I searched it up and it turns out not only might those things both be true and yet it was still even uglier than I remember lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/ytijd/effortpost_starcraft_2_player_steve_bonnell_aka/ Yeah, I wasted a lot of time on Shitredditsays 5-6 years ago and I remember a bunch of terrible poo poo Destiny did/said around that time. He ain't a good dude, even if he has grown up somewhat since then. Also he sexually assaulted a porn actress on stream around this time too, if I recall correctly. He's like the poster child for how easily a dude can behave like an utter scumbag and not suffer any consequences whatsoever. Also from that reddit thread: Destiny posted:
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Nov 20, 2017 04:51
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Also from that reddit thread: Are you saying he's never addressed this poo poo?
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Nov 20, 2017 06:10
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That douche that was fired from Google for arguing that women are genetically pre-disposed to sucking at hard sciences (well, at least, compared to males) blames the fact that he's autistic and the Guardian helps provide a non-critical outlet for him: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/16/james-damore-google-memo-interview-autism-regrets
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Nov 20, 2017 07:27
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Somfin posted:Are you saying he's never addressed this poo poo? He has apologised for some of his previous lovely behaviour, right? Saying the only reason he wouldn't accept underage nudes because they might be trying to catch a predator him is still hosed up, given he was 23 at the time he said that, even if he was just trying to be an edgelord.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:13
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Mr Interweb posted:That douche that was fired from Google for arguing that women are genetically pre-disposed to sucking at hard sciences (well, at least, compared to males) blames the fact that he's autistic and the Guardian helps provide a non-critical outlet for him: i guess the guardian cares more about the clicks they'll get for poo poo like interviewing richard spencer and giving the google dude a platform rather than the consequences of giving these people a soapbox from which to spread hate. and most actually autistic people would say that it is not an excuse for having lovely beliefs, and more importantly, that being autistic does not mean you'll end up hating women, which is what is implied when calling out someone's poo poo ideology is countered with accusations of ableism (common thing in the rationalist community, btw, claiming neurodiversity as an excuse for a variety of terrible beliefs).
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Nov 20, 2017 08:16
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Mr Interweb posted:That douche that was fired from Google for arguing that women are genetically pre-disposed to sucking at hard sciences (well, at least, compared to males) blames the fact that he's autistic and the Guardian helps provide a non-critical outlet for him: Letting him run his mouth uninterrupted is doing him plenty of damage to be honest. All his introspection amounts to "I'm sorry my choice of words offended people, but I stand by what I said", and I don't see this article helping him in any way shape or form.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:53
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Aramis posted:Letting him run his mouth uninterrupted is doing him plenty of damage to be honest. All his introspection amounts to "I'm sorry my choice of words offended people, but I stand by what I said", and I don't see this article helping him in any way shape or form. Is this taking advantage of him though? Depending just how autistic he is he may not realize that standing on a soapbox isn't necessarily endearing...
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Nov 20, 2017 10:14
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Yardbomb posted:Joe's been fairly outspoken sometimes actually, they already poo poo on the cheeto golem and things they tried or are trying, on twitter anyway because they don't usually weigh in on stuff in their vidyagaem videos past anti-consumer stuff. I think Angry Joe is terribly unfunny and has one of the worst fan-bases out there, but he did call out GGers in at least one of his videos (I forget which), though he doesn't bring it up very often. He's on the side of "games journalism needs to be fixed", but at least optically seems like he's actually talking about real issues of journalism and not "women are whores" GGer poo poo.
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Nov 20, 2017 15:32
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Frogfingers posted:Is this taking advantage of him though? Depending just how autistic he is he may not realize that standing on a soapbox isn't necessarily endearing... he may or may not actually be autistic, as he hasn't been diagnosed before so if he was it must not have been that noticable. and anyway it's likely that he's not mildly autistic or whatever, he's just a huge rear end in a top hat and reaching for excuses to deny the reality of his being a huge rear end in a top hat
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Nov 20, 2017 18:30
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His reaction to a generic request for feedback on a company’s diversity policy was to pen a manifesto detailing why women are biologically less prepared to be programmers than men. That alone should suffice as a diagnosis.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:42
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OwlFancier posted:Being well read is unmasculine in some circles, and especially being able to articulate emotive subjects fluently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVdR19E5mU
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Nov 20, 2017 19:01
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