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I've heard of incidents pointing in that direction, but I have no facts. That said, yes, very likely. Both militaristic and latino culture are still very anti-gay (It's still illegal for two male soldiers to have a relationship in Brazil), and I doubt it was any better back in the 1950s-60s. That said, when looking into the past it's worth discerning what failings are caveats and which ones are damning. It'll be a different judgement for each of us, but it has to be done honestly. Bertrand Russel had several lovely racial opinions and delusions about the USSR, but he did come around from most of them once shown his error. Lovecraft, on the other hand, was a rancid shitstain racist that shocked even the racist status quo if his day and age, which never fails to diminish my enjoyment of his work.
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Oct 18, 2017 01:16
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As of now there is no official confirmation, but Santiago Maldonado's body has probably turned up in the Chubut river, lodged against a tree. 300 meters upriver from where he was supposedly last seen 70~ days ago following protests and an incident with the gendarmerie. 4 days to go before the elections. What a shitshow this is going to be.
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Oct 18, 2017 12:43
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Upriver! The government reaction has been far from ideal, also. The mapuche community where Santiago Maldonado was supposedly refused the previous searches in that area (this has been contested and the area was already under search twice), now the coast guard (the Naval Prefecture, really) used tactical divers and a specialized K-9 water-trained corps. The possible coverup in various levels of the Gendarmerie, including at least a few Ministry of Security officers, doesn't fare good for the minister. Calling this a shitshow is an understatement.
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Oct 18, 2017 12:57
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Holy poo poo, yes. Even people I know here in Buenos Aires who were somewhat detached about politics are PISSED at this. Seems that unlike us brazilians, they are not used to having the shittiness of their system exposed so blatantly.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:13
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Pues que partido se perdio entonces 
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Oct 18, 2017 19:16
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Sephyr posted:Holy poo poo, yes. Even people I know here in Buenos Aires who were somewhat detached about politics are PISSED at this. Seems that unlike us brazilians, they are not used to having the shittiness of their system exposed so blatantly. The average "good citizen" here would say it was a pity but he got what he deserved for being a hooligan. edit: actually the "it was a pity" part would be very much optional. It reminds me of Rafael Braga who got locked up for about 4 years because he had a bottle of toilet disinfectant in his backpack, basically. Dias fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 19:23
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Brazil has cut funding to inspections related to child labor and slave labor. Additionally, they've just release new norms that substantially restrict what is to be considered slave labor in Brazil.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:26
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Dias posted:The average "good citizen" here would say it was a pity but he got what he deserved for being a hooligan. The argument here is "well that's what you get for being a dirty hippie supporting a violent terrorist group"
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Oct 18, 2017 19:31
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Dias posted:The average "good citizen" here would say it was a pity but he got what he deserved for being a hooligan. Thats why I don't think that this is as bad as it may initially seem for the government. The whole drama became very politicized and polarized almost immediately, so the support base on the issue is unlikely to change. It's also a whole media circus, but in the wider scheme of things, not actually that relevant. A very high-visibility form of protest, but used by those who were already in opposition to the government. The people who would vote Macri are going to vote Macri anyways, and the people who would vote Cristina or whatever local PJ baron will vote them anyways. The demographic that would totally vote for Macri if only he fired Patricia Bullrich is probably like, 5 people.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:54
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Personally I think Gendarmeria is totally to blame for this - I don't agree with those that say that Ram killed him then planted the body (too risky, too little payoff) and I don't see why would they be killing people who are actual supporters of their cause. That said, I think it's pretty insane to act as if this is proof that we're going back to something akin to the last military dictatorship because Macri killed him on purpose.
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Oct 18, 2017 20:10
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It feels like the usual "police uses unnecessary force out of spite and tries to hide the evidence" type of thing from what I've read. Considering the political climate in South America, it's gonna have an impact on the elections but probably not a major one. Our right seems to be okay with violence against protestors and even the occasional death if there's a way to rationalize it as "self-defense".
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Oct 18, 2017 20:21
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Azran posted:Personally I think Gendarmeria is totally to blame for this Dias posted:It feels like the usual "police uses unnecessary force out of spite and tries to hide the evidence" In relation to all of this, Cambiemos has already stopped campaign acts (not before Carrio stuck her foot in her mouth however). Some left-wing organizations want to hold a rally in downtown Buenos Aires, but quite a few big organizations and even the family have asked not to do it yet. There's not even an official announcement yet.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:42
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There is a possibility that gendarmerie didn't kill him but it is low to the point of absurdity. There are photos of him at the site and there is recorded video footage of gendarmerie shooting the mapuche protesters (and him, by extension). Guess which of these three things the gendarmes can be clearly heard yelling in said video: 1) "Run, cagon!" 2) "Shoot the friend of the family!" 3) "Yeeehaw!" The answer is all 3. The mapuche aren't considered people. The mapuches say their people have been made to disappear before and none of this would have gotten the media coverage it does if it hadn't been a white boy from buenos aires who was killed. It is exceedingly likely they tortured and killed him before realizing he was a documented citizen.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:01
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This is why we can't have nice things:
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Oct 19, 2017 02:05
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I've heard people argue that it must have been the Mapuches because there's no way Gendarmería could've dumped a body without them knowing.  Even if they had a sentry at every single spot on the border of their territory, have these people ever heard of bribes?
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Oct 19, 2017 02:25
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Lol it's cute that people in your country care about a single dead missing wanderer who looks like one of those hippies that sells artesanal hemp products at major city intersections. Meanwhile in Colombia the police shot and killed 8 coca farmers for protesting and everyone ended up blaming the protestors.
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Oct 19, 2017 07:00
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Sephyr posted:Holy poo poo, yes. Even people I know here in Buenos Aires who were somewhat detached about politics are PISSED at this. Seems that unlike us brazilians, they are not used to having the shittiness of their system exposed so blatantly. Any reporting on this in English at all? Because holy poo poo
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Oct 19, 2017 08:23
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Lol it's cute that people in your country care about a single dead missing wanderer who looks like one of those hippies that sells artesanal hemp products at major city intersections. Here is another case that is quite similar (unfortunately I don't have an english link): https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desaparici%C3%B3n_de_Daniel_Solano The guy was never found. In this case, which received 1% of the media attention that the Maldonado case received basically no progress was made. Cristina Kirchner even referred to it satirically with some dictatorship-era level denials, but, after a brief outrage it all just went away. Future Days posted:This is why we can't have nice things:
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Oct 19, 2017 12:45
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Azran posted:I see this spouted very often but almost never with a reliable source - was Che Guevara homophobic? I know he wrote some pretty racist poo poo early on and I am aware that Cuba had forced labor camps in which homosexual people would be the target of savage beatings. Are the any actual sources that back up the claim that he was actively homophobic? Leaving aside that there's a huge chance he was racist, sexist and homophobic just because he was an Argentinian man born in 1928. He wrote some questionable stuff on the motorcycle diaries but I don't think a real racist would travel to fight at Angola for black liberation.
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Oct 19, 2017 15:15
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joepinetree posted:Brazil has cut funding to inspections related to child labor and slave labor. Additionally, they've just release new norms that substantially restrict what is to be considered slave labor in Brazil. They are threatening to get rid of Labor Justice Tribunals as well, which is specially bad for me since I'm studying for their next concursos 
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Oct 19, 2017 15:21
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Plutonis posted:He wrote some questionable stuff on the motorcycle diaries but I don't think a real racist would travel to fight at Angola for black liberation. Yes, I am aware he had changed his views on black people by then. That's why I mentioned "early on", but I wasn't clear enough. Sorry!
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Oct 19, 2017 17:11
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:A few posters have already touched upon it, but its not because this guy is a hippie. Loads of *insert disenfranchised and economically marginalized minority group* get randomly killed in shoot-first-ask-later incidents and the chance of people giving a gently caress are 2%. This guy isn't some random indian, he may have had long hair, but he was some middle-class white dude from a perfectly normal town in Buenos Aires, the guys brother is who you would cast as "average middle-aged balding white dude". The family was also very "lucky" that the Maldonado case was seized upon for political purposes. There are human rights organizations and left-wing parties/movements that often accompany these claims and support cases of disappeared people, particularly when there is a high level of media attention. However, the affair has been also seized by the PJ, in particular the Kirchnerist faction, as a way to score cheap points on the Macri government around the time of the elections. The Campora, Movimiento Evita, and lesser organizations have turned out in droves for something that they were totally happy to ignore more than three years ago. The elevation of Maldonado to the top of the news cycle is most definitively helped by electoral timing. I think it's incredible, given its size and the remoteness of some of these departments that Argentina is even capable of policing the entirety of its territories - given that most countries in South America of similar size; Colombia, Brazil, and Peru simply can't and constantly face guerilla movements/regions completely controlled by what are basically robber barons.
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Oct 20, 2017 02:28
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It seems the family has confirmed that the body found is Santiago's. I've been doing some reading regarding the Ram movement and so far it seems like an extremist fringe faction, but then you get articles like these https://www.pagina12.com.ar/60398-la-ram-es-un-invento-de-los-servicios and, if I'm reading that right, you've got a Mapuche leader saying that the Ram aren't real I mean, I personally feel like I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't support the Mapuche desire for an independent nation like I support the Kurds, but I am not so sure about supporting violent, terrorist-like movements. I was kind of shocked to see people reinvindicating Montoneros of all things at my university.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:59
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Yesterday mid class they told us about it and the prof told us to be careful and not go to any manifestations alone. Whatever happened to those guys that got taken during that large maldonado march a month or so ago? After the bad press i really doubt they werent released, right?
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Oct 21, 2017 19:40
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A bit of levity: https://twitter.com/MeiTheForce/status/921731437140889600
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Oct 21, 2017 20:47
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ArfJason posted:Yesterday mid class they told us about it and the prof told us to be careful and not go to any manifestations alone. I don't remember this but I assume if anyone was detained that they were released. Imagine how bad the optics of detaining someone related to the Maldonado issue would be. Some activists seized the municipal seat of El Bolsón and they're letting them get away with it, because any repression would look terrible. Also i don't really think that the Mapuches actually desire independence as a political goal. Firstly the RAM is a small group in size and political power, and isn't representative of the whole community. I think that if these people had proper roads and schools and hospitals all these independence claims would go away instantly. They just seek the most attention generating form to get their situation out there.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:29
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Yup, I completely agree. Trying to learn more about their history led me to find out about the Kingdom of Araucania and its french king, which I wasn't aware of so that was a fun read.
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Oct 21, 2017 23:12
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The people that were detained during the march were all released with no charges after several days. One of them was even a tourist (whose girlfriend doesn't even speak spanish) asking what the hell was going on. Many report being subjected to harassment from the police officers and being threatened with being disappeared as well. One girl says she was forced to strip and recorded on camera. Not a single one of the protesters throwing rocks at the police were ever identified. Funny thing is that there are photographs matching the violent protesters from that march with city police agents. Imagine that.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:13
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https://www.facebook.com/Policiais-Antifascismo-541737546162619/ so I just discovered this and apparently they are legit af (It is a page for Brazilian police who are antifa)
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Nov 3, 2017 23:51
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That's so weird and... kinda good.
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Nov 4, 2017 00:09
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This is exciting news.
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Nov 4, 2017 00:11
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Negrostrike posted:That's so weird and... kinda good. it really is  I'm a very cynical person with the police but seeing these guys talking kinda put some hope on me
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Nov 6, 2017 12:31
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Is this accurate? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.f33a4e737d56
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Nov 12, 2017 01:41
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Sort of. The main difference is that Bolivia has always been a shithole, even by Latin American standards. It's the poorest country in South America, and was also by far the most politically unstable before Morales was elected. It's true that the MAS's economic policies have at least improved the country to some degree, but, unlike Venezuela, you would have needed a REALLY good imagination to gently caress up Bolivia worse than it already was. Constant spats with miners, farmers and workers notwithstanding, the Morales administration's main achievement was installing some degree of stability in the country. In relative terms, this is the most peaceful that the country's been in what, decades? Centuries? Forever? So it follows that you'll see some development.
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Nov 13, 2017 06:43
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SexyBlindfold posted:Sort of. The main difference is that Bolivia has always been a shithole, even by Latin American standards. It's the poorest country in South America, and was also by far the most politically unstable before Morales was elected. It's true that the MAS's economic policies have at least improved the country to some degree, but, unlike Venezuela, you would have needed a REALLY good imagination to gently caress up Bolivia worse than it already was. Constant spats with miners, farmers and workers notwithstanding, the Morales administration's main achievement was installing some degree of stability in the country. In relative terms, this is the most peaceful that the country's been in what, decades? Centuries? Forever? So it follows that you'll see some development. I see. So in short, "socialism" has undeniably helped the country in some aspects, but the main gains are from political stability and commodity increases? I always thought that Bolivia was less radical than Venezuela in terms of "leftism".
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Nov 13, 2017 07:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:I see. So in short, "socialism" has undeniably helped the country in some aspects, but the main gains are from political stability and commodity increases? Yes and no. They are far less visible than Venezuela, so it's not so much that they are less radical than the world at large not giving a crap. They actually half-seized some brazilian-built gas installations a decade or so ago, which caused a minor shitstorm. Also, no matter how poor and lovely a country is, LatAm is proof that it can ALWAYS get way worse really fast, so yeah, I'm giving Bolivia big props for not doing like Brazil and Argentina, who seems hellbent on shooting their dicks off to impress Trump and be his local doppelgangers.
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Nov 13, 2017 08:05
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Sephyr posted:Yes and no. They are far less visible than Venezuela, so it's not so much that they are less radical than the world at large not giving a crap. They actually half-seized some brazilian-built gas installations a decade or so ago, which caused a minor shitstorm. Is there some actual socialism at work in Bolivia such as propping up cooperatives and giving citizens more say in local matters? Or is it simply classic Soviet inspired statism.
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Nov 13, 2017 08:11
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So uh, how about those chilean elections  Even though the numbers were way off, the end result is still more or less what was expected on the presidential level (Piñera and Guillier to the runoff, but with Piñera far from having it in the bag as previously predicted by pretty much all polls), but on the parliamentary level things are looking a bit insane on all accounts.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:46
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*prays for Latuff-drawn Goku to save Chile*
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Nov 20, 2017 01:57
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SexyBlindfold posted:So uh, how about those chilean elections Hopefully Piñera will secure the place on the second round and the left will be finally removed from government.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:19
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