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Yes that's like saying we should make Franken the Democratic nominee in 2020 so more victims come forward. It's broken rear end logic that only serves to protect sexual predators. Him resigning and an official investigation taking place are not mutually exclusive!
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Nov 20, 2017 20:38
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JeffersonClay posted:3). Forces other senators, particularly Republican ones, to go on the record describing Franken’s behavior as unbecoming of a senator and worthy of removal from the senate. This would be useful when this happens again. This one is kind of funny, because it seems to be implying that liberals saying "but this Republican senator said X behavior was bad in the past, therefore he should also be condemning this other Republican who did the same thing!" would accomplish jack poo poo.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:45
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Ytlaya posted:This one is kind of funny, because it seems to be implying that liberals saying "but this Republican senator said X behavior was bad in the past, therefore he should also be condemning this other Republican who did the same thing!" would accomplish jack poo poo.  Are you sure? When's the last time you've seen a republican poo poo on a veteran after worshipping the military?
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Nov 20, 2017 20:48
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NewForumSoftware posted:Yes that's like saying we should make Franken the Democratic nominee in 2020 so more victims come forward. It's broken rear end logic that only serves to protect sexual predators. Him resigning and an official investigation taking place are not mutually exclusive! Oh I agree it’s a bad take. It just wasn’t anti-resignation, just anti- immediate resignation with a list of mediocre reasons for why they should try to publicly pillory him before he resigns rather than after. There’s actually a “pragmatic” reason why Franken resigning immediately would be bad, which is that it gives Republicans another vote of margin to get their tax plan passed. The Governor of Minnesota better have a replacement lined up loving yesterday if Franken actually caves and resigns. I expect Franken to fight it though. Then things get dicey.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:49
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the real problem here is that franken is very much the tip of the iceberg. how many dem senators and reps have been abusing their pages and interns? probably a hella lot. they just don't have pictures of it cause they weren't in show business. that doesn't mean they shouldn't burn for it but thats why dem politicians are getting this hypocritical treatment. its tribalism yes but its also a knowingness that this goes way way farther than what frankin did
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Nov 20, 2017 20:50
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Lightning Knight posted:Oh come on, I don’t even like JC and that’s not a fair reading. His first reason is that “so more victims can come forward” and he explicitly said “before he resigns.” Your post seems to imply we should take JC's expressed motivations at face value.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:53
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Futuresight posted:Your post seems to imply we should take JC's expressed motivations at face value. I mean, at face value he’s arguing that Franken should resign after an ethics committee castigates him because of ~the optics~, which is a dumb but at least coherent idea.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:55
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Condiv posted:
I'm like 95% sure you're joking, but just in case, John Kerry or Tammy Duckworth come to mind.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:11
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Ytlaya posted:I'm like 95% sure you're joking, but just in case, John Kerry or Tammy Duckworth come to mind. i mean, also the president of the united states, donald jonathan "wall-e" trump the 69th
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Nov 20, 2017 21:12
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Come on, y'all, it's obvious sarcasm.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:15
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Helsing posted:There are plenty of examples of minority rights being trampled on by left-wing organizations or movements outside of the Democratic party. There's a long and storied history of racist labour actions and the modern women's movement was largely in response to the misogyny and sexual violence that occured within the radical movement culture of the 60s and 70s. Even further back than that, 19th century socialist movements considered women's suffrage bourgeois nonsense.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:29
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botany posted:i mean, also the president of the united states, donald jonathan "wall-e" trump the 69th I was referring to veterans who Republicans attacked (and by a non-veteran on the basis of not being patriotic enough, nonetheless, at least in the case of the former). WampaLord posted:Come on, y'all, it's obvious sarcasm. Yeah, like I said I was 95% sure Condiv was being sarcastic/joking.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:30
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Dreylad posted:Even further back than that, 19th century socialist movements considered women's suffrage bourgeois nonsense. You won’t need the right to vote under communism, comrade.  The “your equality can wait for the fall of capitalism” argument coming from the relatively privileged is always horseshit.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:32
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JeffersonClay posted:3). Forces other senators, particularly Republican ones, to go on the record describing Franken’s behavior as unbecoming of a senator and worthy of removal from the senate. This would be useful when this happens again. The problem there being that Republican predators deny, deny, deny. Hence Franken can be condemned and Roy Moore be defended in the same breath without a hint of hypocrisy. Democrats on the other hand get double doses of hypocrisy because they defend a guilty man (that even confessed) while condemning an innocent man.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:00
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Helsing posted:It's remarkable watching Democratic party apologists pivoting away from "you can't trust the economic left, they're too willing to sideline women and minorities" toward "we must be pragmatic about men like Franken". It’s remarkable but not all that unthinkable if you see the manichean constraints of the American political system as something that has infected our behavioral processes.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:47
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JeffersonClay posted:3). Forces other senators, particularly Republican ones, to go on the record describing Franken’s behavior as unbecoming of a senator and worthy of removal from the senate. This would be useful when this happens again. lol how the gently caress are you still this naive after all this time
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Nov 21, 2017 00:46
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Just think, we could make GOP Senators look hypocritical!!
The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 00:49
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I suspect there's a barrage of reading-comprehension-themed insults headed this thread's way very soon. Y'all better get in your posting foxholes, or else.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:06
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The Muppets On PCP posted:lol how the gently caress are you still this naive after all this time
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Nov 21, 2017 01:56
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, at face value he’s arguing that Franken should resign after an ethics committee castigates him because of ~the optics~, which is a dumb but at least coherent idea. It’s the opposite, I think the optics would certainly be better for democrats if Franken resigns now rather than after a long, embarrassing investigation. I just think the long, embarrassing investigation might be useful in dismantling misogyny. The Kingfish posted:Just think, we could make GOP Senators look hypocritical!! As I’m sure all you very smart posters realize, the senate cares a lot about precedent, and creating the precedent that sexual harassment accusations should trigger Senate investigations and censure or worse could be useful in the future when this happens again. Additionally, getting a bunch of powerful people to go on the record and state unequivocally that sexual harassment and assault are unbecoming of a US senator is unambiguously a good thing, even if some of them try to weasel out of it later. If this is just “haha nothing matters” then, sure, you might be right, but maybe you’re not.
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Nov 21, 2017 03:00
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Can we give the seat to the lady al franken tongue lashed
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Nov 21, 2017 03:02
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gowb posted:Can we give the seat to the lady al franken tongue lashed No. We can appoint a party member to hold the seat until the next election.
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Nov 21, 2017 04:02
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:No. Give Bernie two seats.
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Nov 21, 2017 04:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:No. What about the lady who butt he grab
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Nov 21, 2017 04:24
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gowb posted:What about the lady who butt he grab Not a democratic party member. Also, is not interested in the position as far as I am aware.
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Nov 21, 2017 04:46
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JeffersonClay posted:I just think the long, embarrassing investigation might be useful in dismantling misogyny. So this is just another "Hillary for President" ploy?  You centrist scum.
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Nov 21, 2017 05:18
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JeffersonClay posted:As I’m sure all you very smart posters realize, the senate cares a lot about precedent, and creating the precede 
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Nov 21, 2017 05:33
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lol at saying the senate cares about precedent a day after chuck grassley did away with the blue slip system for judicial nominations after they used it to keep a district court seat empty for 11 years in part to spite two black women
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Nov 21, 2017 06:05
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Think about it, Franken isn’t going to be the only senator who harassed and or assaulted women. There are going to be more democrats and republicans in exactly this scenario, soon. This isn’t going to be some abstract concept for people to get outraged about, it’s going to be republicans trying to do an ethics investigation of a democrat while they simultaneously attempt to deny the need for such an investigation of a Republican. Concluding democrats won’t have any additional leverage in that situation because nothing matters might not be a genius take. There’s no downside if it happens, just the risk that maybe it won’t matter.
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Nov 21, 2017 06:14
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Well you heard it hear first, folks. JeffersonClay, who is wrong about everything, has given us his answer, so I reckon we know now what needs to be done.
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Nov 21, 2017 06:17
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Mitch McConnell and Chuck Grassley: well known for their fanatical devotion to decorum and senate precedent. Follow those two into dat brier-patch boys, we'll have em cornered then!
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Nov 21, 2017 06:27
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i dont have a problem with the idea of mandatory investigations in these cases, if thats what we're talking about. except I'm not sure they would have any teeth, and if they did, it would probably end up being seen as a partisan thing depending on the score of how many of each party's people were found to be acting inappropriately. also it seems like its only one of many things that can and should be done. rooting out the abuse in dc is gonna be next to impossible but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying, regardless of the short term consequences that might result in the gop's favor (but i'm not even convinced that would happen)
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Nov 21, 2017 06:41
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Optics pragmatism polling moderation compromise perception consensus leverage gravitas precedent political capital presentation decorum edit: my posting bot loving broke hang on a sec Filipino Freakout fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 06:45
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stone cold posted:oink oink oink oink Yeah it's intensely depressing that "maybe 50-year-old senators shouldn't be going around grabbing handfuls of boob and rear end like a rich frat boy with daddy's defense attorney on speed dial" is apparently too high a bar for goons and also literal senators. Greatest hits, vol 1: Owlofcreamcheese posted:Name anyone that takes a bunch of photos and you'll find awkward touching. It honestly just seems like too dumb a plan to intentionally grope one specific lady on camera in front of her husband in a series of 1000 photos at a fair. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 08:27
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the blind veneration of the Process is so fascinating to watch they keep on calling out to Zeus expecting him to smite their enemies, and every time he refuses to smite them they just redouble the intensity of their prayers
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Nov 21, 2017 17:34
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You heard it here first y’all, investigating sexual harassment and assault is pointless and naive because nothing matters. Truly the hottest, most feminist of takes.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:36
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JeffersonClay posted:You heard it here first y’all, investigating sexual harassment and assault is pointless and naive because nothing matters. Truly the hottest, most feminist of takes. i am genuinely torn whether it is sadder to watch JC or NFS fat-fingering an attempt to pick up the mantle of Guy Who Really Cares About Minorities clearly, it is the people arguing we should not treat sexual assault as a resignation-worthy offense , because any day now the Republican Party is going to start giving a poo poo about precedent, process, or hypocrisy, who are the True Feminists
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Nov 21, 2017 20:01
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expecting republicans to respect precedent is pointless and naive
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Nov 21, 2017 20:02
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I kinda have to respect JC's determination to go for the dumbest take possible even when the self-evident fact that resignation and investigation aren't mutually exclusive has been explained to him in no uncertain terms.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:07
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I'd much rather the "Franken shouldn't resign and here's why" post that will lead to the inevitable probation/meltdown
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Nov 21, 2017 20:10
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