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comedyblissoption posted:this is the same argument of kings and queens and autocrats. the masses cannot be expected to make important decisions, so a privileged elite must do it for them. The key is that there is a middle-ground between total direct democracy and random autocrats called a republic, where the people select experts to do the management. Ownership and management are separate things. A company can be owned by its workers without being directly managed by them.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:42
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comedyblissoption posted:this is the same argument of kings and queens and autocrats. the masses cannot be expected to make important decisions, so a privileged elite must do it for them. Turning the reins over to the workers is a loving terrible idea and it's how you get things like the purges in Cambodia where everyone who isn't a peasant is murdered. The working class is primarily loving stupid and I can testify to this by virtue of being one of them for 25 years. You actually DO need educated people detached from the day to day drama of the workplace to manage it. There's a difference between management and royalty.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:45
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Nut to Butt posted:Hrmm, I guess the solution is to give more power and control to the people actively participating in this plunder, allowing them to further circumscribe our freedom for their profit. what are you even talking about dude, what is this implicit assumption that reform will leave the exact same people in power like, that's why you have to eat them chris christie's bloated corpse alone would provide food security for at least three states, and you could use cory booker shavings on top for some more jersey spice
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Nov 20, 2017 20:47
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) angels.
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comedyblissoption posted:Get rid of the capitalist altogether. Start worker co-ops where the employees are their own boss and democratically make all the important economic decisions of the business. Stop submitting to a class rule where a tiny minority of people run your life and make all the important economic decisions of society. You first
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Nov 20, 2017 20:47
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Guys, just make this ridiculous pipe dream happen. Me? oh no I'm not going to do anything. But it's really easy to do, why hasn't anyone done it yet?
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Nov 20, 2017 20:48
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Like yeah, really, I want the black dude from Jamaica at work who's pro-Trump and calls Hillary "a loving oval office" at every opportunity, the guy who thinks the moon landing was faked, and the dude who sneaks back into the offices after hours to sleep on the couches to save on rent to all have an equal vote in the management of the product, that would be loving awesome.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:50
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They say YouTube is programming against conservatives, but it must know me too well. It actually reccomends me a prageru video in the playlist while “gently caress Borders” plays on, and I’m not even subscribed. It knows what I need to stay in my bubble.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:50
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What's wrong with the moon landing guy
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Nov 20, 2017 20:51
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Magnitogorsk. posted:Guys, just make this ridiculous pipe dream happen. Me? oh no I'm not going to do anything. But it's really easy to do, why hasn't anyone done it yet? nobody cares
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Nov 20, 2017 20:53
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Blue Train posted:What's wrong with the moon landing guy Let's just say it's not his only "out of the box" idea. Every day after work he cruises the entire base and checks the payphones for change. It takes him over an hour.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:54
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new phone who dis posted:Like yeah, really, I want the black dude from Jamaica at work who's pro-Trump and calls Hillary "a loving oval office" at every opportunity, the guy who thinks the moon landing was faked, and the dude who sneaks back into the offices after hours to sleep on the couches to save on rent to all have an equal vote in the management of the product, that would be loving awesome. If you knew many corporate board members, I think you'd find that these are not really any worse than the people makign decisions for big companies right now
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Nov 20, 2017 20:54
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"the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants" is kind of outdated what do you guys think about "the belly of liberty must be fed with the flesh of the rich"
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Nov 20, 2017 20:55
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I know one guy on the board of a major tech company who literally has his assistant print out his e-mails for him to read
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Nov 20, 2017 20:55
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comedyblissoption posted:this is the same argument of kings and queens and autocrats. the masses cannot be expected to make important decisions, so a privileged elite must do it for them.  ), so that its decisions don't matter and people live their lives free from the depredations and petty tyranny of taxmen and other government-endorsed bandits.I'm a radical (I think there should be mandatory sunset clauses in all laws, for example) but, to me, there's a huge difference between someone trying to gently caress you legally, and someone legally allowed to gently caress you. World War Mammories posted:what are you even talking about dude, what is this implicit assumption that reform will leave the exact same people in power
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Nov 20, 2017 20:56
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:If you knew many corporate board members, I think you'd find that these are not really any worse than the people makign decisions for big companies right now The system led by educated people isn't failing because they are educated. It's failing because it's corrupt, a problem encountered by even the most communist, worker-led paradise shitholes on the planet.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:56
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:I know one guy on the board of a major tech company who literally has his assistant print out his e-mails for him to read i worked with someone who loves writing code to do really complicated stuff then printed out the results and gave people those instead of an email with the document
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Nov 20, 2017 20:57
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Jose posted:Has Peter daou come up a lot because smh if not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwPV1WaXVtk
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Nov 20, 2017 20:58
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:If you knew many corporate board members, I think you'd find that these are not really any worse than the people makign decisions for big companies right now
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Nov 20, 2017 21:01
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Back to lols please. https://twitter.com/barackobama/status/932685522820042754 Barack had a completely "how do you do, fellow kids" today.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:04
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comedyblissoption posted:it's a cartel of rent-seeking capitalists. and the reason there is not price transparency is because there is no democracy under capitalism. it's the same reason why your telly preaches the virtues of 'free markets' to you but you are literally banned from re-importing the exact same drugs that are sold here from Canada or the UK where the drugs are sold for much cheaper. 'free market' (and corporate welfare) for the capitalist. gently caress you for the worker. I want to be able to import whatever Chinese research chemicals I want in my quest to see God, and anyone who stands in my way is my enemy. Smash the state.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:06
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Over There posted:Back to lols please. Finally, a war crime to surpass bush.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:06
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Nut to Butt posted:The problem lies in the truth of that argument, and the solution is to establish a government so toothless as to be revolutionary ( you get rid of the us public government and you are left with private tyrannies that are even more unaccountable to you. a much better solution is to end the forces that cause the public government to be undemocratic in the first place. extreme inequality allows the wealthy to buy the government. the extreme inequality is caused by enabling a tiny minority to make the important economic decisions for everyone else at the workplace, including how to allocate the revenue of the enterprise. workplaces do not have to be this way. workplaces can be made democratic and owned by the workers. make the workplace democratic, and the workers will not vote to give obscene wealth to a handful of employees and owners while they can't send their kids to college.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:06
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Nut to Butt posted:Power corrupts. It doesn't matter who's in charge. In recent years, they've been coming out with some interesting studies regarding how power fucks up your brain. So, to me, Occam's Razor dictates that we should strive for a society in which power is decentralized and diffuse amongst as many poles as possible, while still maintaining a cohesive national civic identity. but historical evidence and simple logic demonstrates that if you let capitalists run free in such a system, without anything keeping them in check, they're gonna do their damnedest to rig the game in their favor, because that will help them make more money. the profit motive explicitly contradicts your stated goals of governance. you keep approaching good ideas and I'm pretty sure we broadly agree but then you trail off when the obvious conclusion of "these ideas are incompatible with capitalism" gets hard to ignore Over There posted:Back to lols please. after the whole tom perez debacle a couple months back, tbh it would be really nice if obama hosed off back to billionaire orgy island forever
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Nov 20, 2017 21:06
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new phone who dis posted:The system led by educated people isn't failing because they are educated. It's failing because it's corrupt, a problem encountered by even the most communist, worker-led paradise shitholes on the planet. Nah, high-level corporate governance can be exceedingly dysfunctional. Being educated doesn't mean you're actually competent or able to make good decisions.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:07
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this seems ther ight thread for this https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/932636605537505281
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Nov 20, 2017 21:08
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Jose posted:this seems ther ight thread for this Poe's Law means I dont' know which way to laugh at this, but I am still laughing regardless
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Nov 20, 2017 21:09
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new phone who dis posted:The system led by educated people isn't failing because they are educated. It's failing because it's corrupt, a problem encountered by even the most communist, worker-led paradise shitholes on the planet.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:10
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comedyblissoption posted:the soviet union, china, et al. were dictatorships and not worker-led. they just switched the capitalist for the state autocrat. it's basically a form of state capitalism. they did not give employees ownership or decision-making in the economic enterprise of society. joseff basically went to work in the same way before and after the revolution. The fantasy that real communism has never been tried is uniquely pathetic and quasi-religious at this point.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:13
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China is still communist and it works hth
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Nov 20, 2017 21:15
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Holy lol.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:16
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Blue Train posted:China is still communist and it works hth lol i think he's legit mentally ill https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/932683585659731968
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Nov 20, 2017 21:18
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Blue Train posted:China is still communist and it works hth Only in name. They're capitalists hanging on to the communist brand name. They have their uber-rich, middle class, and dirt poor. Capitalist black markets prop up the economy in places where they just haven't converted outright. They have a billionaire class. They aren't communists in any meaningful way.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:18
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The modern corporate form was created so that capitalists could be transient, dumb lazy fuckers and still have their companies run normally. This means that capitalists can be replaced by the workers, who are also dumb lazy fuckers, with very few problems.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:20
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new phone who dis posted:The fantasy that real communism has never been tried is uniquely pathetic and quasi-religious at this point. capitalists have created private tyrannies that control your life. killing the public state is exactly what they want as a class because it gives them much more control over society and gives you much less control.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:22
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Nov 20, 2017 21:23
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Good work
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Nov 20, 2017 21:24
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http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/19/opinion/liberties-leech-women-in-love.html
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Nov 20, 2017 21:26
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If she'd been that eager with Bill maybe he wouldn't have had to hit up Monica
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Nov 20, 2017 21:26
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comedyblissoption posted:you can call it whatever ideological label you want. it's completely immaterial to what i'm talking about. my point that they are undemocratic dictatorships still stands. you are disingenuously conflating the idea of democratically run businesses with autocratic dictatorships. The problem with your outlook is that even though communism doesn't explicitly call for the authoritarian model, it implicitly requires it. It is itself an authoritarian doctrine. Dissenters aren't allowed and have to be purged to maintain the society. It's a built-in flaw whether people want to admit it or not. Putting everything in the hands of "the people" inevitably leads to authoritarian scenarios precisely because the people as a group are incapable of managing society effectively without managers.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:28
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This isn't very funny
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Nov 20, 2017 21:29
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