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For God's sake they're called tool-tips.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:15
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quote:Game has problems, pirates, pacing, diplomacy, AI. Combat is going to be a love or it leave deal. This reads to me as uh, "game bad"
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Nov 20, 2017 02:31
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:The main menu buttons have hover...buttons?!? WTF?!? Krazyface posted:For God's sake they're called tool-tips. No, they're hover-buttons =[ When you mouse-over "New Game" two new sub-options appear to the right, Quick start and Beginner. I didn't notice beginner when I first installed the game and just clicked on New Game. That being said, the hover buttons are more convenience than hiding info, at least in the context of the main menu. As one of the new players this weekend, It's really hard to get a solid run-down on certain mechanics, you kind of have to paint your own picture from guessing and tooltips. It'd really be nice to just have some rudimentary documentation, where it runs through (in paragraph-form) how certain things work and are to be done. Like manpower (despite reading this thread I thought it was local like food, not global like dust), goals, etc. I've been lucky with the pirates, but yea the underlying 4X game is disappointing, despite it having so much dang production & polish.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:57
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The very first time you play the game suggests and asks if you want to do the beginner's tutorial so...
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Nov 20, 2017 03:00
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The 3 tutorial levels where clearly marked "I've never played anything like this before", "I've played 4X games before" and "I know all about Endless Space". I chose the middle option, despite having played Endless games prior. poo poo's still a mess.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:04
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victrix posted:This reads to me as uh, "game bad" Pirates you can turn off, very few 4x games have tolerable diplomacy, and no one has great AI. If those last two are how you define whether a 4x game is good or bad, you're never going to find a game to make you happy unless you're just playing multiplayer. Also I like the combat system.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:14
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IIRC Endless Legend had a tutorial that was basically the first 10-15 turns of a game on rails, they really should have stuck with that for ES2. I'd give my free weekend experience a 7 out of 10. I still got that sensation of "a few more turns, oh poo poo it's dark outside", but it was mostly fun even though I got my poo poo wrecked on Normal because I apparently don't have a clue how combat works.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:19
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Yeah, the art and story elements are so good that at $20, I think I still might throw down for the full game. Why not?
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Nov 20, 2017 03:26
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tinstaach posted:IIRC Endless Legend had a tutorial that was basically the first 10-15 turns of a game on rails, they really should have stuck with that for ES2. You haven't played a good 4x until your issue has been "a few more turns, oh poo poo, it is Light outside."
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Nov 20, 2017 03:27
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tinstaach posted:IIRC Endless Legend had a tutorial that was basically the first 10-15 turns of a game on rails, they really should have stuck with that for ES2. There is one. People keep skipping it though, because they think "I don't need the baby tutorial" except it turns out they totally do.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:11
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I played a lot of Endless Space 1, so I picked this up on sale but I'm having a really hard time figuring out what to research. Doesn't seem as straightforward as ES1.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:20
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Now that I did the actual hand-holdy tutorial I think I understand it a lot more. Its too bad that it was never presented to me / it was not obvious that it was there.Krazyface posted:For God's sake they're called tool-tips.  Det_no posted:The very first time you play the game suggests and asks if you want to do the beginner's tutorial so... Serephina posted:The 3 tutorial levels where clearly marked "I've never played anything like this before", "I've played 4X games before" and "I know all about Endless Space". I chose the middle option, despite having played Endless games prior. poo poo's still a mess.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:38
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I'm not sure it's a game that can be learned quickly- all the nice music and art is there to make the horrifying learning experience as pleasant as possible! Anyway, the tech wheel is certainly daunting. I guess the general rule is to keep each quadrant roughly balanced, to not neglect the earlier techs when the shiny expensive later ones come available, and to be aware of a handful of key technologies: the one that lets you hire heroes, the one that lets you found a trade route, the free movement tech. Oh who am I kidding, they're all important.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:59
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Tree Bucket posted:I'm not sure it's a game that can be learned quickly- all the nice music and art is there to make the horrifying learning experience as pleasant as possible! Tree Bucket posted:Anyway, the tech wheel is certainly daunting. I guess the general rule is to keep each quadrant roughly balanced, to not neglect the earlier techs when the shiny expensive later ones come available, and to be aware of a handful of key technologies: the one that lets you hire heroes, the one that lets you found a trade route, the free movement tech. Oh who am I kidding, they're all important.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:07
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yeah the tech wheel is like, it's cool that they decided to try a new spin on the old tech tree idea, but what they came up with is straight-up worse than the classic linear tech tree (or even EL's ages system, for that matter)
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Nov 20, 2017 05:12
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Sounds like they've successfully made the pirates as much of a pain in the rear end as they were in ES1, so score one for consistency at least. Having them spawn off of minor faction worlds didn't make much sense, but at least it tended to keep them generally contained and manageable. Now they just seem to pop up anywhere, even on worlds you've already explored and which are in dead-end star lanes. Totally skews the early game peaceful expansion and exploration phase, because they'll probably be moving in next door to you 5 turns in, and then you have to focus on getting some military research done and military ships fitted out, and then you've skewed your politics towards military, which is already sort of unavoidable anyway towards mid-game, but I guess now it can start happening immediately. Hope you didn't want to focus on peaceful diplomacy! Guess it's time to start treating pirates just like in ES1, which is turn the switch off and then ignore it forever.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:24
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BobTheJanitor posted:Sounds like they've successfully made the pirates as much of a pain in the rear end as they were in ES1, so score one for consistency at least. Having them spawn off of minor faction worlds didn't make much sense, but at least it tended to keep them generally contained and manageable. Now they just seem to pop up anywhere, even on worlds you've already explored and which are in dead-end star lanes. Totally skews the early game peaceful expansion and exploration phase, because they'll probably be moving in next door to you 5 turns in, and then you have to focus on getting some military research done and military ships fitted out, and then you've skewed your politics towards military, which is already sort of unavoidable anyway towards mid-game, but I guess now it can start happening immediately. Hope you didn't want to focus on peaceful diplomacy! "pirates/bandits so strong they can defeat entire empires" is one of the weirder recurring strategy game tropes. whether historical or scifi or fantasy, everyone wants to throw in random criminals who have somehow created a massive professional military
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Nov 20, 2017 05:34
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Yeah, it's weird that the pirates act way more like the Cravers than the Cravers themselves. I quite like the challenge of the pirates, but the AI does seem uniquely bad at handling them. Maybe the devs need to smuggle a combat bonus for AI vs pirates into their code somewhere...
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Nov 20, 2017 05:58
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Clarste posted:There is one. People keep skipping it though, because they think "I don't need the baby tutorial" except it turns out they totally do. I did the beginner game, it lets you do whatever you want in whatever order, and if you do something for the first time it sometimes pops up a window to explain to you what you did with some more info. It's very inconsistent. I was going to post that understanding a lot of this stuff probably comes through experience and I only put a few hours into it this weekend, but I just checked and I put in 22 
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Nov 20, 2017 06:15
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The stupid tech wheel is almost exactly like in Endless Space 1 but with even more secondary mechanics bodged in (tier unlocks etc). I have absolutely no goddamn clue why they decided to take probably the most needlessly daunting thing about ES1 and emfucken it further, but them's the breaks, I guess. It's just a little sad to see considering EL's (still somewhat opaque but) vastly better and more accessible tech system.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:12
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Okay, you can blame the early access people for that. Originally it worked exactly like EL's tech era system, but people complained that A) too many techs were mandatory for that to work well, and B) having tech eras in a sci-fi game felt weird and limiting. So they went for this hybrid system instead. Personally I don't mind it at all, but I can definitely see how it's huge and meaningless for a new player. Also I hate the EL era system.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:17
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Clarste posted:Okay, you can blame the early access people for that. Originally it worked exactly like EL's tech era system, but people complained that A) too many techs were mandatory for that to work well, and B) having tech eras in a sci-fi game felt weird and limiting. So they went for this hybrid system instead. I thought the EL era system for tech was really good. It made it clear when someone was outracing you tech wise, unlocked progressively more difficult era challenges as the game went on, gave you a limited pool of techs to focus on at the start. It was really a big improvement over the Civ/ES style tech blob.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:09
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Well, I like the ability to beeline for something in particular (or in a more flavorful sense "my civilization is really good at lasers"), so being forced to pick the least bad tech just to advance to era always felt icky to me.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:31
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Tech system was the same in ES1 if I remember right and it seems to work well enough. I'm not going to say it's perfect, but there's a very easy trick to it: check only the things you can research right now, that should be like ~10 things when you're starting out max. Pick one you want and can research *now*, not one that might seem super powerful to have right now but will take 20 turns to unlock and research. Worry about all that poo poo later when it opens up, or use search if you're looking for something specific (like "colonize lava"). First, because you'd have to read the entire trees right off the bat, second because a good tech now is far better than the best tech in 20 years. You can start making complicated research orders when you're playing on highest difficulties and poo poo like that might actually make a difference, and even then you might get hosed by planet types or starting next to cravers and having to tech military quick. Also, I somehow have zero issues dealing with pirates. In my first game I got a bit surprised, but researching the first non-civilian hull and building 4 seems to be enough to break them real quick. Fit a bunch of missiles and use a long range tactic, you'll barely even take damage. e: also super don't worry about falling behind in one of the trees. I often leave military tree almost completely untouched for the first 20 turns or so, and then when the need arises the first few critical techs clear in 2-3 turns and then you're almost up to speed. Truga fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 08:57
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Azran posted:
I can check when I get back from work but I'm also still missing things from that book. I love DotE, I hope they've got some more ideas for spin-off type stuff.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:46
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These 4x alchemist guys are frustrating. First of all they disappeared. Five months ago they stopped posting on reddit, making videos, responding to youtube questions. They're just gone. Secondly all their guides are ludicrously out of date. Like a thing I"m noticing is no matter what expert guide he uses he fires off probes in two directions and wow whoa look there's two systems with two planets each in both directions. Let's sit and talk about which is better for us in our short term plans based on what tier 2 planets are also there, but when I play it's like barrens toxics and gas giants everywhere. I have literally never seen a tier 0 planet in less than five jumps from my start. They changed how the universe is populated so harshly I don't even know if it's worthwhile looking for strategies it's mostly start researching arids or get hosed with territory disputes. He's got his 2nd quest scientist out on turn 8 and it took me 25 to get up there. Goddamn.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:28
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e: missed a page, not pertinent.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:57
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I get the feeling that pirate bases never change the design of their ships (I could be wrong though.) So once you grab a hard counter for whatever they're carrying, things get much friendlier. Here's another question that I can't settle on- is it best to have your starting hero as a governor, or as an unkillable scout admiral...?
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Nov 20, 2017 23:32
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Tree Bucket posted:Here's another question that I can't settle on- is it best to have your starting hero as a governor, or as an unkillable scout admiral...? If you put them into a city they will do gently caress all until turn 20 when they level up once. If you put them in space and probe the poo poo out of anomalies you can throw them back into the city once they reach 3 soon after turn 9 and actually get some use out of them. The guides I hate which are out of date said to always do that except in this one instance where your hero has a huge boost to industry without any levels but that guy got nerfed in half so I can't think of a reason to stick them in the system before turn 9 anymore. I don't know poo poo about dick but I feel like I got a handle on this one thing, at least.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:47
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The starting Lumeris hero gives a nice little bonus to Dust generation early on, and they get two starting scouts with extra probes, so it's probably not a terrible idea to just stick him on your homeworld and leave him there to drink fish wine with whoever the hell that tittyfrog is on the faction select menu.
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Nov 21, 2017 03:00
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Krinkle posted:If you put them into a city they will do gently caress all until turn 20 when they level up once. If you put them in space and probe the poo poo out of anomalies you can throw them back into the city once they reach 3 soon after turn 9 and actually get some use out of them. Okay, that makes sense. Those early skills are pretty meh until they start stacking up. Incidentally, does anyone else get the impression from the Lumeris loading screen art that the huge fat frog guy has just asked a deeply gross and highly specific favour of the nervous skinny fish man...? It's sort of unsettling.
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Nov 21, 2017 03:19
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I get the impression he's rich and powerful enough to get really fat off of blood worms while the skinny waiter is afraid of getting fired and starving without his dusty fish flake rations
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Nov 21, 2017 03:42
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I colonized Auriga and it was a frozen husk and I think I need a hug you guys 
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Nov 21, 2017 04:50
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What? That can't be right. Auriga is a flourishing wonder-filled Utopia under the benevolent rule of the Drakken. It's got moss pearls and chromatic lands and everything.
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Nov 21, 2017 06:48
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Tree Bucket posted:What? That can't be right. Auriga is a flourishing wonder-filled Utopia under the benevolent rule of the Drakken. It's got moss pearls and chromatic lands and everything. It's mostly dead in ES, and fully dead in ES2.
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Nov 21, 2017 08:14
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GreenBuckanneer posted:It's mostly dead in ES, and fully dead in ES2. Well, that's depressing. http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Auriga
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Nov 21, 2017 08:31
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Mymla posted:Well, that's depressing. http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Auriga It would have been cool if the United Empire had the occasional drakken or broken lord, even just in artwork or story things. Just to show that the last ship off of Auriga (canonically vaulters) carried a few heroes or immigrant pops off-world and integrated them into the UE.
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Nov 21, 2017 08:58
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Chilling with my mage bros in the Virtual
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Nov 21, 2017 09:23
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Spanish Matlock posted:It would have been cool if the United Empire had the occasional drakken or broken lord, even just in artwork or story things. Just to show that the last ship off of Auriga (canonically vaulters) carried a few heroes or immigrant pops off-world and integrated them into the UE. It would have been cool if they hadn't picked the most boringerest human white bread faction as the canon winners.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:59
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No, that would have been the 'Elves' of Auriga.
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Nov 21, 2017 11:48
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