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EbolaIvory posted:While holding a 2h rifle with 1 arm. I have shot a S&W 38 special before as well as paintball guns and shooting guns in VR is nothing like shooting guns in real life, but carry on. In real life your accuracy does drop if you're moving and shooting, though not as extreme as when you are swinging an arm while shooting.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:12
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Starting to think playing VR games might give people brain damage.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:17
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GlyphGryph posted:It's almost as dumb as telling people that trackpad locomotion is "on good" or "on par" with physical locomotion. But even though it's been explained to you what you lose from it, you're probably just going to claim that doesn't matter (or deny it's true). Even while pushing the reason why saying otherwise is dumb is because of the stuff you "lose" that there's no real reason for people to care about. My only gripe with something like jogging in place is after about 30 min I'm done with that game. For some short game exps yeah it would be a lot of fun to play a game where real full movement is used. But I cant imagine playing for an extended time even being in shape. Hour maybe tops? Theres no way I'd get the 3-5 hour play sessions in if I had to run in place though. I don't feel like I lose anything (major) using touchpad to be honest.More so when we're dealing with shooters and holding guns and aiming. Its a decent system that allows people to move around freely without forcing someone to jog in place, or swing arms around wearing yourself out in the first 30 min of playing. Yeah sure, I wont disagree that "walking in place" is more "in the moment" but personally I have a harder time running in place than I do running in general, so for me id rather trackpad/touchpad simply because it feels weird not actually moving but im "walking/running". And to be clear, I'm specifically talking about shooting games and locomotion for it. Anything requiring me to use my arms is out IMO because my arms are god drat busy. Non shooty gun games using other locomotion and being built around it whatever. But a MP game, where you're shooting semi accurate guns? Naw. iceaim posted:I have shot a S&W 38 special before as well as paintball guns and shooting guns in VR is nothing like shooting guns in real life, but carry on. In real life your accuracy does drop if you're moving and shooting, though not as extreme as when you are swinging an arm while shooting. You have no aim if you're swinging your arms is my entire point. I really dont get how you say shooting guns in VR is nothing like real life . I have a good chunk of hours at the range + random country back road farm shooting (ARs, Shotguns, Pistols), and its been a super smooth transition more so with reloading, cocking weapons, etc. Its all very true to life minus the recoil on large weapons. Sure theres some stuff that don't exactly line up but come on, saying its "nothing" like real life is a joke. I mean whatever, You enjoy it. Its just poo poo for moving and aiming at the same time. Chadzok posted:My preferred form of locomotion is to grab the whole world and make it really small, reposition it, then blow it back up again to regular size. Google Maps Street View VR Shooter! EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 22:27
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My preferred form of locomotion is to grab the whole world and make it really small, reposition it, then blow it back up again to regular size. If someone could make this with guns thatd be great thx!
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Nov 20, 2017 22:28
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GlyphGryph posted:This sounds like a strict improvement and quite enjoyable so maybe I should pick it up and knock a few other "to buy" games down lower on the list. add me on steam if you get it, I'm always down for some co-op climbey http://steamcommunity.com/id/torontowalrus/
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Nov 20, 2017 22:45
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Chadzok posted:My preferred form of locomotion is to grab the whole world and make it really small, reposition it, then blow it back up again to regular size. Agreed, Megaton Rainfall was pretty great
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Nov 20, 2017 22:47
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Man, the amount of butt-hurt going around about shooting on the move. Did you know the military specifically trains people not to shoot and move (Unless its suppressive fire.) because it's highly inefficient as well as dangerous? The only time you're going to see professionals shoot and move is if they're SWAT or some other CQC group because you're not supposed to loving move while pulling the trigger. Course it's entirely dependant on the type of game, but you might as well say "Mouse and Keyboard is a better type of movement/shoot" than arm-swinging because one you do in video games and the other you do in real life.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:10
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Thor-Stryker posted:Did you know the military specifically trains people not to shoot and move (Unless its suppressive fire.) because it's highly inefficient as well as dangerous? Guess I dreamed all those table 3 and 4 courses.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:24
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PenisMonkey posted:Guess I dreamed all those table 3 and 4 courses. True, all the branches train you to move and shoot, but you're not expected to be doing that unless you seriously hosed things up and ate too many crayons. You should be operating from positions of superiority, which isn't a Marine's strongpoint anyways given they have to run up beaches while getting shot at.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:36
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Lemming posted:Nah one handed is a lot easier without a stock. You only have one hand floating around, so it's much easier to get the muscle memory down for aiming. It's not super stable, but two hands is super unstable
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Nov 20, 2017 23:44
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Ralith posted:Are you high? Stability of aim is literally proportional to the distance between your hands. The further apart, the larger the motion you need to make to have the same impact on direction. One-handing is the worst possible case, unless you're using a stock so that you can actually have multiple well-separated points of contact despite only having one in-game. Every time you want to aim with two hands, you have to manually readjust based on the sights. It's much more difficult to get a repeatable bead on something because your aim is based on holding both of your hands floating in the air. It's much more difficult to get both in the right spot then one. BAM has a one handed aiming mode (it's called gun rig mode which is pretty lol). Try it out for yourself, it's much much much easier to hit stuff with it in. So much so that people have been calling for its removal for a while because they consider it cheating.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:47
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EbolaIvory posted:
You have a point. If you don't factor in the recoil then it is like shooting in real life. Plus it does sound like you have more experience in shooting guns. I don't like the fact that the dev removed the global chat from the testing area and changed it to local chat. I already voiced my opinion on the discord in the suggestions channel that this is a mistake because it's fun to shoot the poo poo with people and also make sure there's actual humans around. Can other people hop on discord and goto the suggestions channel and let the dev know this is a mistake? I don't understand people who say they can't play an arm swinger for more than 30 minutes. Today I played an hour of Holopoint, an hour of Racket NX, and then two hours of Stand Out. That's 4 hours of very physical VR gaming and cardio all in one. The only reason I stopped is I don't want to mess up my sleep schedule further because it's going to be my wife's birthday on Wednesday and I need to make preparations. iceaim fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 00:17
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Lemming posted:Every time you want to aim with two hands, you have to manually readjust based on the sights. It's much more difficult to get a repeatable bead on something because your aim is based on holding both of your hands floating in the air. It's much more difficult to get both in the right spot then one. 
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Nov 21, 2017 00:20
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Ralith posted:That is not my experience. Have you done the direct comparison in BAM? That's the only game I know of that lets you turn the two handed aiming on and off at will, so you know you're comparing apples to apples. It's extremely stark how much easier it is to aim all the guns when they're only affected by one hand.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:28
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iceaim posted:You have a point. If you don''t factor in the recoil then it is like shooting in real life. Plus it does sound like you have more experience in shooting guns. So the pre round staging area is proximity/local now? Instead of global? 30 min might be a bit of an exaggeration on my part but I know id be tired pretty quickly if that was my only movement in a shooter. With a good chunk of VR hours and my arms finally getting used to things, I could play a lot longer than before and sure I could go an hour or two like that now a days. It just feels kinda crap in a FPS game and I cant imagine new players enjoying that in something like onward/bam/real shooter gun gun game. :edit: Misread a thing.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:33
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Lemming posted:Have you done the direct comparison in BAM? That's the only game I know of that lets you turn the two handed aiming on and off at will, so you know you're comparing apples to apples.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:33
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Lemming posted:Every time you want to aim with two hands, you have to manually readjust based on the sights. It's much more difficult to get a repeatable bead on something because your aim is based on holding both of your hands floating in the air. It's much more difficult to get both in the right spot then one. Are you talking about getting hand 2 on the right spot for the gun to hold the right spot to stabilize it? Or are you talking about just in general not having a stock and 2 floating hands? Ralith posted:Yes. It's faster, but more precise? Absolutely not. I could see it being an advantage at point blank ranges (sometimes I one-hand the UMP in Pavlov in certain maps for this reason; the recoil penalties don't even matter at that point) but certainly not anywhere else. Yeah kinda this is my feeling. It does help get you lined up a little faster at range but thats about it (that ive noticed with bams gun stock thing).
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Nov 21, 2017 00:37
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https://imgur.com/gallery/I9mTn
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Nov 21, 2017 00:39
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EbolaIvory posted:But I cant imagine playing for an extended time even being in shape. Hour maybe tops? Theres no way I'd get the 3-5 hour play sessions in if I had to run in place though.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:39
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ShadowHawk posted:In the future "VR gamers" will be the only fit people left. Thank god we have a couple years left! 
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Nov 21, 2017 00:45
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I'm a pretty big fan of game mechanics that involve expending actual energy, personally. I just don't like arm-swinging locomotion because it's even less compatible with doing things with your hands than touchpad locomotion, and can be really difficult to get maximum speed out of. Sure, snap turns via the touchpad aren't perfectly realistic, but that's nothing new. Climbey is still gloriously awesome, though. Helps that you both spend very little time actually walking and don't have to deal with any kind of tools.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:08
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Ralith posted:Yes. It's faster, but more precise? Absolutely not. I could see it being an advantage at point blank ranges (sometimes I one-hand the UMP in Pavlov in certain maps for this reason; the recoil penalties don't even matter at that point) but certainly not anywhere else. It's way more precise. Not even close. This is something you can test out for yourself, I can virtually guarantee you'll be overall faster and more accurate with one hand. EbolaIvory posted:Are you talking about getting hand 2 on the right spot for the gun to hold the right spot to stabilize it? Or are you talking about just in general not having a stock and 2 floating hands? Not having a stock in general, and then the difference in aiming between one and two hands. Like I said, there's a reason why people don't like the one hand mode in BAM. It gives you a huge leg up on the people who are using the two hand aim. Both in speed and accuracy.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:36
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Lemming posted:Not having a stock in general, and then the difference in aiming between one and two hands. Like I said, there's a reason why people don't like the one hand mode in BAM. It gives you a huge leg up on the people who are using the two hand aim. Both in speed and accuracy. Fair, I agree with that. I dunno if I 'agree' with the bam mode tho. I'll swap it back and forth a bit. I never felt like that gave me THAT big of an up. Sure it helps but its not been "hax".
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Nov 21, 2017 01:45
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EbolaIvory posted:Fair, I agree with that. I think it's the fact that it gives you a leg up at all is the point. Some people are practiced at the two hand thing from playing a lot of Onward or whatever else, but if you haven't been playing stuff like that a ton it's an instant boost, which I think is what's bothering people. You're at a disadvantage if you play the way it's "meant" to be played (meant in quotes because if it's a literal option in the game you're meant to use it :p)
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Nov 21, 2017 01:51
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Lemming posted:It's way more precise. Not even close. This is something you can test out for yourself, I can virtually guarantee you'll be overall faster and more accurate with one hand.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:55
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Ralith posted:What part of "Yes, I have tried this" was unclear? I'm sorry you apparently have so much trouble with it, but no, two-handed aiming is fundamentally more precise, both as a matter of practice and of simple geometry. That doesn't always mean it's better, but it's certainly a good default if accuracy matters much in the first place. Lol you want to bring personal skill into this? Fine https://gfycat.com/LeafyBasicBlackwidowspider Do this with two hands and then get back to me Edit: two hands with no gun stock that is, obviously you could do that with a gun stock Lemming fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 03:06
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Props to whomever pointed out Gorn was for sale on the Humble Store. What an awesome use of VR. Somehow managed to leave my controllers and tiny study unscathed, mostly due to using the trackpad locomotion and avoiding really quick swings. This definitely is a game that has me pining for a full roomscale setup though. Dodging would be so much more intense.
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Nov 21, 2017 13:18
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Lemming posted:Lol you want to bring personal skill into this? Fine Lemming knows what he's talking about. He dominated Space Pirate Trainer and is an Echo Arena champ. He's also pretty drat good at BAM Royale too.
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Nov 21, 2017 13:52
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So I'm kind of torn - I've been gearing up to buy a Vive for a while but now it sounds like the Rift is pretty awesome too. Is the Vive still the route to go if you're okay with the extra cost? I'm seeing mostly people talking about the lighter weight of the Rift and it's motion controllers being better, but having used the Vive before I didn't really have an issue with it.
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Nov 21, 2017 15:36
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Try to get your hands on a rift to see if you like the controllers (or the fit of the HMD) more. Even putting tracking aside, I think the consensus is that the Touch controllers are a bit better designed. The Vive is a fine piece of kit, and is probably better in some minor ways - better fit for some glasses wearers, hypothetically better upgrade paths with light houses (although that’s very far off), Knuckles controllers on the horizon, a little easier to set up if you don’t have a lot of USB 3.0 on your machine. However, as of today, the differences are extremely marginal and are probably not worth a $300-$400 price difference. If you really have it to spend you won’t be sad about it, but that much money will probably buy you more happiness elsewhere.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:11
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Rift is currently better. Vive is potentially better in the future, and only comparable now if you actually spend a chunk more than the sticker price to get the accessories or if you have a huge space to play in - If you go for Vive I would recommend the new headband, some poles for the lighthouses, and a cable extender if you have the room. Also a sweat wipeable face cushion! And make sure to install ReVive since some of the best stuff is Oculus Store Exclusive
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Nov 21, 2017 16:23
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Less Fat Luke posted:So I'm kind of torn - I've been gearing up to buy a Vive for a while but now it sounds like the Rift is pretty awesome too. Is the Vive still the route to go if you're okay with the extra cost? I'm seeing mostly people talking about the lighter weight of the Rift and it's motion controllers being better, but having used the Vive before I didn't really have an issue with it. Both are good, both have gotten significant price reductions, but the Rift at $350 (Black Friday deals) is a great deal. Make sure you have enough USB ports or at least the option to add a USB extender. I think there are some Black Friday deals at $600 for the Vive + Strap + Fallout 4 VR. Personally I prefer my Vive over the Rift now that I have the Deluxe Audio Strap and Vive and Chill mostly due to the longer cord and having the play area aimed away from my computer but I think they are really super similar. As other said, the differences are extremely marginal so with the Rift at $350 it's hard to argue for the Vive. When the Rift is $400 and the Vive is $700 with no strap (as is the normal prices) it's a no brainer to get the Rift, with the current Black Friday prices I'd say it's closer to a toss up but still tilts towards the Rift. Do you have glasses? Do you have a ton of free USB ports (4) or the option to add a PCI-e card? Also the suggestion is to get the 3rd camera for the rift but it's really affordable now (I think like $49). Stick100 fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 16:25
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homeless snail posted:Starting to think playing VR games might give people brain damage. Same, but deja vu. 
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Nov 21, 2017 17:38
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With the Black Friday deals it's mostly a toss up like the other guy said, but otherwise I'd say the Rift is a better deal. I'm a Vive user, but I bought it back in December 2016 when Oculus Touch tracking was still a bit janky and unstable. It's really good now. The only bad VR headsets are the Mixed Reality headsets unless you have a large open field that you can use to play some world scale Vivecraft with like some German dude on Reddit did. Also here in Hong Kong only the Vive is for sale so I would have had to import the Rift. If you're worried about playing Oculus games, they play very well with Revive. VR still blows my mind even though I have owned this thing for almost a year. I play it everyday, and I still have VR dreams sometimes if I do a really long (4 hours+) VR session. I had one last week about Lone Echo. iceaim fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 17:52
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Even at the same price I would say the Rift is a clear win over the Vive. With the Vive you have to add on the deluxe audio strap to get the same fit and integrated headphones the Rift has (which are actually very good!) out of the box, and you currently can't replace the Vive controllers with better ones. The only real hard win the Vive has is the ability to handle larger tracked rooms. The Rift can handle ~4.5m^2 with 4 sensors but the Vive can handle ~5.5m-6m^2. Second gen lighthouses for the Vive/SteamVR platform will be able to handle potentially limitless floor space since you can add more of them, which is pretty neat. However, in practical effects the Rift and the Vive are basically equal, but, the Rift has superior controllers, superior HMD fit (Vives can be upgraded), arguably better optics (they are better, though some people might not want the tradeoffs) there isn't a very good argument for the Vive with the Rift even slightly cheaper, much less ~$200-250 cheaper.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:32
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gently caress the Rift does sound like a decent choice. Is there a decent way to play Vive-only games, like an opposite of Revive? I just noticed one of my main wanted games, Fallout 4, is only for the Vive.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:50
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There are no vive only games, those games are for steamvr and will work on any set supported by steamvr, which the Rift is.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:51
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Less Fat Luke posted:gently caress the Rift does sound like a decent choice. Is there a decent way to play Vive-only games, like an opposite of Revive? I just noticed one of my main wanted games, Fallout 4, is only for the Vive. As stated there are no Vive only games, also the creator of Revive made an application that will trick any Vive only games that could be made (Google earth was for a couple of weeks) that you have a Vive when it's a Rift. Also here is a Rift for $350. Might need to be a Bestbuy reward member. https://slickdeals.net/f/10873071-oculus-rift-touch-virtual-reality-headset-bundle-349-99 Not that I'm suggesting it but MS is also running some great sales on thier headsets. Going down to $299. Crazy considering that within this year the only two entry points for VR + Hands were both at $800. I wonder if we are going to see $199 Rift by next Christmas. https://slickdeals.net/f/10795755-s...rc=rcm_category I've only used them for a bit but they actually seem decent although not nearly as premium feeling as either the Rift or the Vive. Note: you do need working bluetooth to use the packed in controllers. Stick100 fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 18:59
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Truga posted:There are no vive only games, those games are for steamvr and will work on any set supported by steamvr, which the Rift is. http://store.steampowered.com/app/611660/Fallout_4_VR/
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Nov 21, 2017 19:12
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Stick100 posted:As stated there are no Vive only games, also the creator of Revive made an application that will trick any Vive only games that could be made (Google earth was for a couple of weeks) that you have a Vive when it's a Rift. You'll be very, very sad if you get a windows headset to save $50 dollars. Don't do it.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:17
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