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jivjov posted:So why bother establishing a Story Group at all? Do you really think Disney is playing a long con and they're just not going to actually ever do their jobs at all? Establish a story group to placate continuity obsessed grognards.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:35
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jivjov posted:So why bother establishing a Story Group at all? Do you really think Disney is playing a long con and they're just not going to actually ever do their jobs at all? I think it's because for whatever reason, the mere fact that stuff is canon matters a great deal to people regardless of its actual quality. I remember quite keenly when the first slate of new tie-ins (comics, books etc.) were announced, I saw loads of people, mainly on the social media, but some even on SA, expressing interest in the Star Wars EU for the first time in years if not their lives because, "It's all going to be canon now." Even though, for the most part, the new EU hasn't done much that hadn't already been done in Legends and isn't doing it especially better for that matter, the fact that it's canon genuinely matters to some readers (admittedly for reasons I can't fathom). Creating the Story Group helps to foster the impression of interconnectedness without actually having to commit to making sure everything actually ties together. A comparison: I remember when the first season of Agents of Shield was being broadcast. It was pretty rubbish for about three quarters of the season until Captain America 2 came out; I think that's fairly well-established. However, before that, the number of people who said they were sitting through it anyway, even if they thought it was bad, because "it's all connected" to the movies (it's not really) and they were certain that the show would "start having an impact" on the films soon was surprising.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:36
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also helps keep book/game continuity in line, we're just saying that it will get overwritten by movies if they want to (also really the only canon that matters is the original trilogy)
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Nov 20, 2017 22:40
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StashAugustine posted:also helps keep book/game continuity in line, we're just saying that it will get overwritten by movies if they want to But why would the Story Group not do their most critical job duty and prevent the movies from overwriting the Canon?
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Nov 20, 2017 22:42
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Jazerus posted:the old eu had an equivalent and canon was still torn up by lucas on whims like thinking "korriban" sounds too much like "coruscant" Darth Icky
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Nov 20, 2017 22:52
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jivjov posted:But why would the Story Group not do their most critical job duty and prevent the movies from overwriting the Canon? Because at the end of the day they are unimportant and if a director/Disney decides they want to establish something that contradicts the canon because it's more popular they're going to.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:54
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ImpAtom posted:Because at the end of the day they are unimportant and if a director/Disney decides they want to establish something that contradicts the canon because it's more popular they're going to. So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all?
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Nov 20, 2017 22:57
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jivjov posted:So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all? To keep nerds happy and thinking they serve a real purpose.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:00
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Skoll posted:Darth Icky "What is a joke?"
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Nov 20, 2017 23:02
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jivjov posted:So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all? Because it is good PR and sounds better than "We don't give a poo poo about you." You assume Disney cares about Star Wars as anything but a method for making money. They don't. Individual directors and fans may but the company doesn't. Canon doesn't matter to them except in terms of marketing characters.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:03
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quote:“The team threw a Hail Mary to George, saying the game would have more credibility if the apprentice had a ‘Darth’ title,” a Force Unleashed team member says. Lucas agreed that this situation made sense for Sith royalty, and offered up two Darth titles for the team to choose from. “He threw out ‘Darth Icky’ and ‘Darth Insanius.’ There was a pregnant pause in the room after that. People waiting for George to say ‘just kidding,’ but it never comes, and he just moved on to another point.”
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Nov 20, 2017 23:04
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jivjov posted:So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all? The Story Group exists to manage continuity and timeline in tie-in products — say an outside company like FFG needs to know what to call Kylo Ren's fighter, Story Group can look that up and tell them and keep that in sync with all the other Kylo Ren's Fighter toys. They probably get some feedback into the movies too, but you have to understand that this 'group' is an office within a political hierarchy, and major studios are constantly full of internal politics as people and offices struggle for influence over creative decisions. Over the past couple years, for example, we've seen how Disney pushes back against directors who are going too far off-brand or not delivering the right material. The 'story group' doesn't write the stories. It's a marketing and backfill resource. If Rian Johnson decides he wants to offhandedly mention that the TIE Vendetta was a personal gift from Snoke to Kylo Ren, and story group has previously decided it's called a TIE Silencer and it was a prototype Sienar descendant of Vader's TIE which Kylo demanded out of sheer Vader mania, Rian is going to get his way and the story group will backfill it somehow. When Gareth Edwards needed to know where the Death Star plans were archived, he didn't ask the story group, he pulled the name off a Starbucks cup. The job of the story group is to handle continuity in toys, books, tie-ins, secondary media. The movies lead the way, story group follows.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:07
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I too am fundamentally incapable of recognising humour unless I am told that I am supposed to be laughing. This is why comedy only works with a laugh track.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:12
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I just find it easier to recognize that you are actually retarded. You should probably see someone for that.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:14
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General Battuta posted:The Story Group exists to manage continuity and timeline in tie-in products — say an outside company like FFG needs to know what to call Kylo Ren's fighter, Story Group can look that up and tell them and keep that in sync with all the other Kylo Ren's Fighter toys. Except that is explicitly NOT how the Story Group works. The books and comics and films are all of equal canonical weight, and if the Story Group does their job, if Rian Johnson tries to rename the TIE Silencer, he'll be corrected
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Nov 20, 2017 23:18
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Also most of those specific details aren't even mentioned within the movies, they leave that for the tie-in materials. Pablo has tweeted about the story group several times, telling many lore-obsessed fans that they're not as heavily involved in directing story beats as they would think. Most of the time the writers are given some ideas of what they're looking for and then the writers are allowed to run with it. They can then consult with the story group to flesh out any areas or adjust any minutia issues. But from what he's said, they just smooth out any rough edges. One thing you'll find though is that most of the new canon material actually makes it a point to not reference any big world changing events for planets or characters until a movie addresses it. And when they do feature characters, they back fill in previously unexplored details or features. Battlefront 2 actually does this quite a bit throughout the campaign. It references several characters and events from the new canon as throw away dialogue. It's doesn't affect any new canon events, but makes use of previously established material. Pablo on Twitter: Pablo Hidalgo posted:Against my better judgment, about to start a few tweets about the dreaded C-word, canon. But first, one ground rule. This is just my opinion. Just my own ideas about it. It is not reflective of any company policy. It's not a commandment. It's not a rule. Just an observation. On occasion when asked about something specific, I'll answer, 'Canon doesn't split those hairs.' What do I mean by that? It means it's a detail that isn't catalogued. It's an increment beneath notice. And stuff like that typically means artifacts of the medium. So, I don't see there being such a thing as 'canon dialog'. Because a comic, novel, cartoon, live action version of an event will differ. It's my way of dodging the who-shot-first horse carcass. All that's canon is that two people entered that booth, & Greedo died. Reports vary. They kind of took this idea and ran with it in the Certain Point of View 40th Anniversary short story collection which came out. Things happened, the large structure of the series is the same when there might be conflicts. If the details aren't conflicted, they're canon, if the details conflict, well then that's up to you. Teek fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 23:23
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jivjov posted:So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all? I'm pretty sure they didn't seek out and appoint them - from what I understand, they just kept the people who were already there and gave them a new name.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:34
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm pretty sure they didn't seek out and appoint them - from what I understand, they just kept the people who were already there and gave them a new name. Well, they didn't go headhunting, sure...but they still made an active decision to put certain people in the role
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Nov 20, 2017 23:35
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is battlefront 2 worth playing bc all i hear about it is the shitstorm about grinding
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Nov 20, 2017 23:37
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StashAugustine posted:is battlefront 2 worth playing bc all i hear about it is the shitstorm about grinding Yeah; I'm having a good time with it.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:38
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Skoll posted:Darth Icky i've come around on the idea that lucas thought giving starkiller a sith title was dumb and so he decided to troll the developers
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Nov 20, 2017 23:47
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jivjov posted:Except that is explicitly NOT how the Story Group works. The books and comics and films are all of equal canonical weight, and if the Story Group does their job, if Rian Johnson tries to rename the TIE Silencer, he'll be corrected It is not how you are told the story group works; it is how it works in fact. The story group's remit is material the movies don't care about and won't touch.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:03
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General Battuta posted:The story group's remit is material the movies don't care about and won't touch. And that's not a bad thing! The people who care about the EU can feel happy that it'll be consistent and there'll be some oversight, and the people who don't care can engage with the movies and only the movies and not have to worry about having missed an issue of a comic book three years ago and not knowing who someone is or whatever.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:11
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The Story Group is a PR move exactly the same way that the whole "real sets" announcement is a PR move. It is there to satisfy obsessive purists. It's a nice thing to have but it's unnecessary.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:13
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General Battuta posted:It is not how you are told the story group works; it is how it works in fact. No, the Story Group is explicitly involved with the entire Canon, including books, movies, TV shows, comics, and games.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:02
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Involved does not mean they are an authority. They can and will get overruled.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:11
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Jazerus posted:i've come around on the idea that lucas thought giving starkiller a sith title was dumb and so he decided to troll the developers Same. After reading Secret History of Star Wars it is pretty clear at that point Lucas just didn't really give a gently caress and wanted to mess with those who did.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:21
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Arcsquad12 posted:Involved does not mean they are an authority. They can and will get overruled. They are the ones doing the overruling though...the Story Group's whole job is to keep everything in the Canon in alignment.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:21
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Are they not the chosen ones? Are they not to destroy the discrepancies and bring balance to the Canon?
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Nov 21, 2017 01:48
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jivjov posted:So...Disney seeks out and appoints the Story Group, tells them "help curate and maintain the Canon" and then just ignores them? What sense does that make? Why have a Story Group at all? Marketing. And to prompt responses from fans just like the ones you're making.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:53
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Milky Moor posted:Marketing. And to prompt responses from fans just like the ones you're making. So Now Disney is just straight up lying to us? Seems like pretty poor marketing to blatantly lie to your consumers.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:57
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jivjov posted:So Now Disney is just straight up lying to us? Seems like pretty poor marketing to blatantly lie to your consumers. it's more that they don't care to the extent that you do, jivjov, because they are a corporation
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Nov 21, 2017 01:58
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Jazerus posted:it's more that they don't care to the extent that you do, jivjov, because they are a corporation They cared enough to establish a Story Group, with the explicit purpose of managing the continuity.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:00
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jivjov posted:So Now Disney is just straight up lying to us? Seems like pretty poor marketing to blatantly lie to your consumers. What do you think marketing is, my dude?
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Nov 21, 2017 02:00
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Milky Moor posted:What do you think marketing is, my dude? I've taken enough marketing classes to know that blatant lies aren't exactly legal
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Nov 21, 2017 02:01
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jivjov posted:I've taken enough marketing classes to know that blatant lies aren't exactly legal You haven't taken very good marketing classes then.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:07
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I wish the new EU would create more new characters for the novels and build stories around them. Or if that's too much to ask, grab secondary characters, like they did with Barris Offee in the Battle Surgeon novels. I love Aphra mostly because she's new, and I'm not sure the higher ups at Disney are totally aware of her yet.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:08
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A question, who are the "higher ups" in your view, Kennedy? Or someone else outside of Lucasfilm? Disney's not exactly making the character decisions for Lucasfilm in that way. Pablo and the story group know about her... There's really not anyone else that involved at that high of level other than Kathleen Kennedy? Coming out of last celebration several Lucasfilm reps spoke happily about seeing the cosplay for her and fandon appreciation for her. I'm not sure it would necessitate her getting a live action role written specifically for her, but she might get a Saw Gerrera shot, where they go "We need a character who is like this" and they go to well and pull her out since she fit the character they were looking to use in that era. Teek fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 02:37
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Personally I want a movie about Shriv, breakout star of Battlefront 2. Edit: Teek posted:There's really not anyone else that involved at that high of level other than Kathleen Kennedy? For a second I thought you meant Kathleen Kennedy and was wondering what a cosplay of her would entail...
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Nov 21, 2017 02:58
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jivjov posted:I've taken enough marketing classes to know that blatant lies aren't exactly legal 
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Nov 21, 2017 03:11
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