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A Buttery Pastry posted:Who gets the cultural treasures of the UK? Greece, one hopes
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Nov 20, 2017 21:14
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Right now it looks like the UK is probably going to remain in the economic union, so you will still be treated the same as an EU citizen in terms of employment. Norwegian or Swiss citizens are not discriminated against on the job market AFAIK  that's the opposite of what these last of few weeks have been. Everything is pointing to negotiations collapsing sometime next year due to the Tory government being unable to commit to anything at any point.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:23
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Aurubin posted:So uh, Merkel says she wants fresh elections as opposed to being in a minority government. That seems like a bad idea wrt the AfD. Maybe the other parties should have joined a coalition then.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:43
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Sinteres posted:Maybe the other parties should have joined a coalition then. The problem with that is if the SPD joins a grand coalition with the CSU/CDU then the AfD becomes the official largest opposition party. Thats not going to be good medium/long term, giving them that sort of platform and legitimacy. The FDP don't appear to have had any huge problems with the CSU/CDU program for government, it was clashes between the Greens and the FDP that have resulted in this. I guess a minority government with the FDP would be the most workable option presently. I'm not sure how else the circle is going to be squared. A new election, going by current polling, won't really change how things stand either.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:35
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https://twitter.com/business/status/932678421599084544 Lol the brits are only now realizing the mess they're in. This is gonna pound the pound isn't it?
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Nov 20, 2017 22:38
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orange sky posted:https://twitter.com/business/status/932678421599084544 In fairness, some of us actually realised the mess we're in for quite a while.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:55
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Yeah I'm sorry for that expression. I meant the (still) Brexit supporters or otherwise slow people E: it might be a good lesson for anyone else though, if there's any kind of a referendum of this importance here I'm gonna take a month off and knock on doors all day
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Nov 20, 2017 22:58
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Everybody except the Brexit fanatics realize this, but Theresa May & co have decided that it's more important to cling onto power for dear life than it is to not gently caress over the country.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Who gets the cultural treasures of the UK? Greece Also, who still believes there will be any sort of Brexit deal? Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 23:38
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The Brexit deal will be the EU throwing their hands up in the air and giving a unilateral declaration on February 2019 that amounts to "God loving drat it, we won't deport British citizens if you don't deport EU citizens."
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Nov 21, 2017 00:53
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Deltasquid posted:The Brexit deal will be the EU throwing their hands up in the air and giving a unilateral declaration on February 2019 that amounts to "God loving drat it, we won't deport British citizens if you don't deport EU citizens."
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Nov 21, 2017 06:59
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The UK accepts and immediately introduces a "Translator tax" requiring all residents to prove their English speaking/reading skills yearly or pay a hefty fine. I'd be okay with a chav tax
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Nov 21, 2017 09:15
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The UK accepts and immediately introduces a "Translator tax" requiring all residents to prove their English speaking/reading skills yearly or pay a hefty fine. And, due to the fortunate wording of the law this targets all residents and not only foreign ones, allowing the Tory government to impose a tax that selectively targets both foreigners AND the poor.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:20
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Deltasquid posted:The Brexit deal will be the EU throwing their hands up in the air and giving a unilateral declaration on February 2019 that amounts to "God loving drat it, we won't deport British citizens if you don't deport EU citizens." Given all that "hostile environment" bullshit where British authorities are trying to intimidate legal EU residents into leaving the UK, the strongest argument for bit deporting the British might be to have a bargaining chip for once the UK government goes full fascist on EU citizens post Brexit.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:25
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The most sensible option, that'll never happen because "lol Tories", would be to do something like offer all EU citizens who've been resident for longer than 1 year British citizenship on the day of exit. Then they're protected under British law, the EU courts can stay out and everyone gets what they want. E: Though do some EU countries not allow joint citizenship? That would be a potential issue.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:34
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CottonWolf posted:E: Though do some EU countries not allow joint citizenship? That would be a potential issue. The Netherlands does not normally allow it but made an exception for Britain recently because of Brexit
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Nov 21, 2017 09:37
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CottonWolf posted:E: Though do some EU countries not allow joint citizenship? That would be a potential issue. Yeah, but in the worst case that still lets you choose. eg in Germany you can also apply for permission for holding dual citizenship, and there could be a policy of "the Brits hosed up and did a Brexit" being sufficient reason.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:43
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Zudgemud posted:And, due to the fortunate wording of the law this targets all residents and not only foreign ones, allowing the Tory government to impose a tax that selectively targets both foreigners AND the poor. Poor people will blame the EU for this new tax.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:50
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Orange Devil posted:Poor people will blame the EU for this new tax. Plenty of Brits will blame the EU for a failure to produce a Brexit deal. In their mind they already paid way too much for other people's comforts, why won't the EU pay them back and even punish them economically?
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Nov 21, 2017 10:04
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Blut posted:The FDP don't appear to have had any huge problems with the CSU/CDU program for government, it was clashes between the Greens and the FDP that have resulted in this. This is most likely wrong as all evidence points to the FDP was planning to let the talks fail all along. It makes sense for them, too, as the only winning move for the reborn FDP would be the opposition where they could talk big and sharpen their profile without actually having to commit to anything or deliver on anything. (And that is exactly Lindners and Kubickis core competency, the only top personnel the FDP has left.) New elections will show if it was a good strategy, I don't think so though. On the other hand I can't predict the future either.
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Nov 21, 2017 10:21
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dogboy posted:This is most likely wrong as all evidence points to the FDP was planning to let the talks fail all along. It makes sense for them, too, as the only winning move for the reborn FDP would be the opposition where they could talk big and sharpen their profile without actually having to commit to anything or deliver on anything. (And that is exactly Lindners and Kubickis core competency, the only top personnel the FDP has left.) This is how CDU/CSU and Greens would like it to be interpreted. Merkel seems to have taken the support of the FDP, which she ground into oblivion as a coalition partner 2009-2013, as granted and was only willing to concede major points to the Greens without deeming it necessary to offer something of value to the Liberals. Surprisingly, this behaviour did not bode well in the eyes of the Liberals. No party that went into a coalition with Merkel's CDU in the last decade is willing to do so again 2017. She should take a hint.
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Nov 21, 2017 11:21
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u brexit ukip it posted:The Netherlands does not normally allow it but made an exception for Britain recently because of Brexit Wait what? Where did you get this? I'm eligible for UK citizenship, but I never bothered because I'm Dutch and everyone was in the EU anyway. If there's an exception I might get one as well.
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Nov 21, 2017 12:23
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Cerebral Bore posted:Everybody except the Brexit fanatics realize this, but Theresa May & co have decided that it's more important to cling onto power for dear life than it is to not gently caress over the country. Most of the Brexit fanatics with actual power absolutely realised this - they were either taking paycheques from Russia (Farage), engaging in naked disaster capitalism (Redwood, Davis), or both (Johnson, Rees-Mogg). The long-term health of the U.K. was and is entirely irrelevant to them.
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Nov 21, 2017 12:41
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Einbauschrank posted:This is how CDU/CSU and Greens would like it to be interpreted. Merkel seems to have taken the support of the FDP, which she ground into oblivion as a coalition partner 2009-2013, as granted and was only willing to concede major points to the Greens without deeming it necessary to offer something of value to the Liberals. Surprisingly, this behaviour did not bode well in the eyes of the Liberals. That's some really weird mental gymnastics to make Lindner look good. The talks failed because the FDP and Greens couldn't agree on several major points and the Greens had pretty much jettisoned their entire party program at that point and had nowhere else to retreat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that a Yellow-Green coalition is just not feasible on a federal level and leave at that. It had been a long shot from the very beginning. Both sides would have had to be willing to make huge sacrifices to make it work.
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Nov 21, 2017 12:43
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Blut posted:Do you have an Irish/Italian grandparent? If no, The only ancestral option open to me would be my paternal grandfather, who was from Poland and settled in the UK in 1947 and died ten years ago. My father has said that my grandfather never renounced his Polish citizenship, although I have never seen any evidence that he maintained it. He has also been able to locate members of our extended Polish family through ancestry websites and such, but wasn't really able to communicate with them as none of them speak much English. Having looked into acquiring Polish citizenship, it would seem that I am eligible if my grandfather did indeed retain his Polish citizenship, and my father was to acquire it before myself. Unfortunately, the forms and bureaucratic procedures all appear to be in Polish, without the option of completing them in English. It is also possible that I would have to complete a term of service in the Polish Armed Forces, which I would not enjoy. Also, I would have to end my British citizenship, which would not really bother me. Perhaps I should badger my father to make an appointment with the Polish embassy or something?
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Nov 21, 2017 13:21
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Move to Gibraltar and hope your government sells it back to Spain when the poo poo hits the fan. Also, there are like 3 brexiters in the whole place, so in the meantime you won't be alone in your misfortunes. 
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Nov 21, 2017 13:31
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Namarrgon posted:Wait what? Where did you get this? I'm eligible for UK citizenship, but I never bothered because I'm Dutch and everyone was in the EU anyway. If there's an exception I might get one as well. It's one of the plans of the new government, though if I read this statement correctly, it will only apply to people who have already migrated to Britain. Nothing has changed just yet though. I doubt that there will be an exception just for Brexit since that would pretty likely be a violation of article 1 of the Constitution. Also, allowing the double nationality in this case was a D'66 wish, which means that the chances of them being able to push it through are minimal.
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Nov 21, 2017 13:35
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:That's some really weird mental gymnastics to make Lindner look good. The talks failed because the FDP and Greens couldn't agree on several major points and the Greens had pretty much jettisoned their entire party program at that point and had nowhere else to retreat. The Greens are themselves a split party. While it is true that a yellow-green coalition with Özdemir and Lindner might have worked, parties are more than their frontpersons. The Greens also have Trittin - who wasn't really present until the Jamaika talks and undermined every progress, lamenting about the sell-out of Green dreams. And he's not alone, he's representing the left wing of the Green party, which is about as open for recent developments as the CSU.
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Nov 21, 2017 13:51
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Lord_Adonis posted:Perhaps I should badger my father to make an appointment with the Polish embassy or something? Yes
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Nov 21, 2017 13:53
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It's one of the plans of the new government, though if I read this statement correctly, it will only apply to people who have already migrated to Britain. Nothing has changed just yet though. I doubt that there will be an exception just for Brexit since that would pretty likely be a violation of article 1 of the Constitution. Also, allowing the double nationality in this case was a D'66 wish, which means that the chances of them being able to push it through are minimal. IMO, all EU countries should accept multiple citizenship, at least multiple citizenship among other EU countries. Ulvino posted:Move to Gibraltar and hope your government sells it back to Spain when the poo poo hits the fan. Also, there are like 3 brexiters in the whole place, so in the meantime you won't be alone in your misfortunes. Things are pretty bad when "hope we get annexed by Spain" is your Plan A.
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Nov 21, 2017 14:28
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dogboy posted:This is most likely wrong as all evidence points to the FDP was planning to let the talks fail all along. It makes sense for them, too, as the only winning move for the reborn FDP would be the opposition where they could talk big and sharpen their profile without actually having to commit to anything or deliver on anything. (And that is exactly Lindners and Kubickis core competency, the only top personnel the FDP has left.) As other posters have pointed out, your post is pretty much the Greens narrative. But the FDP's is the opposite; that the Greens were being unreasonably implacable on issues like the migrant family importation moratorium. Regardless of which is more accurate (it'll take some time for fully accurate leaks to emerge), the logical assessment of both competing narratives throwing so much blame on each other is that there is/was too much of a gap between the FDP and the Greens for them to govern together. Which, given polls aren't showing much change if another election is called, is going to be a big problem for Merkel. If she calls another election and gets the same result she'll probably just have to go with a minority FDP backed government anyway. Just after wasting lots of money and time on a second election. Moving forwards the only viable in the near future majority governments are probably CDU-CSU/FDP or SDP/Green/Linke. But either one of those would require a re-alignment in votes.
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Nov 21, 2017 14:42
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Cat Mattress posted:IMO, all EU countries should accept multiple citizenship, at least multiple citizenship among other EU countries. I fully agree and the prohibition of double nationalities in the Netherlands is based on nothing more than ignorance, prejudice, and xenophobia; it's a weapon that was mainly directed against Dutchmen of Turkish or Moroccan descent; Dutch emigrants desiring to take the nationality of their host nations for whatever reason (usually convenience) are just acceptable collateral damage. Unfortunately, the idea that there is something wrong with a holding dual nationality has taken hold in the political discourse and so D66's desire to get rid of the prohibition is doomed to fail.
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Nov 21, 2017 14:52
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Blut posted:Regardless of which is more accurate (it'll take some time for fully accurate leaks to emerge), the logical assessment of both competing narratives throwing so much blame on each other is that there is/was too much of a gap between the FDP and the Greens for them to govern together. Which, given polls aren't showing much change if another election is called, is going to be a big problem for Merkel. If she calls another election and gets the same result she'll probably just have to go with a minority FDP backed government anyway. Just after wasting lots of money and time on a second election. I do not think that the FDP will support a chancellor Merkel after all that has transpired. Also, as an added fun fact, Trittin - who is not above a little intrigue - claims that the reasons for the exit of the FDP was that Merkel had conceded too many points to the Greens, thereby disproving the funny idea that the Greens had completely sold out their party program. http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2017-11/juergen-trittin-sondierungsgespraeche-jamaika And Habeck, a rather pragmatist Green who is in a Jamaika coalition, adds that the Greens were also pretty much fed up with the talks and thought about leaving more than once. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/robert-habeck-zu-jamaika-auch-wir-gruenen-haben-an-abbruch-gedacht-a-1179491.html
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Nov 21, 2017 15:06
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Zudgemud posted:And, due to the fortunate wording of the law this targets all residents and not only foreign ones, allowing the Tory government to impose a tax that selectively targets both foreigners AND the poor.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:19
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Lord_Adonis posted:Perhaps I should badger my father to make an appointment with the Polish embassy or something? If you're serious about leaving then yes. You'll have to find a reliable translator and start learning Polish on your end, but that's expected when moving abroad. Get started on the process sooner or later, even if it's just exploratory. Paperwork can take ages even in the best of situations.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:49
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nimby posted:Plenty of Brits will blame the EU for a failure to produce a Brexit deal. In their mind they already paid way too much for other people's comforts, why won't the EU pay them back and even punish them economically? Reminder that Britain gets 2/3rds of it's net EU expenditure back as part of the rebate (that's not counting the indirect benefits that the money buys) and as a result pays in less than loving Italy, and no, not per capita. e: They do have the highest total EU immigration, possibly because it's a lot easier for most Europeans to build a life in an English-speaking country than anywhere else. One look at the job (p.14) statistics (p.13) confirms that (i.e. in say Sweden over half of EU immigrants are employed in low-skilled jobs, whereas in Britain it's about a third); nevermind the relative ease of having a social life and otherwise fully participating in society when one speaks the local language. What I'm saying is that all of Europe needs to speak Esperanto. e2: added links to the actual statistics; better ones than last time Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 23:24
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Blut posted:Regardless of which is more accurate (it'll take some time for fully accurate leaks to emerge), the logical assessment of both competing narratives throwing so much blame on each other is that there is/was too much of a gap between the FDP and the Greens for them to govern together. Which, given polls aren't showing much change if another election is called, is going to be a big problem for Merkel. If she calls another election and gets the same result she'll probably just have to go with a minority FDP backed government anyway. Just after wasting lots of money and time on a second election. I agree with that currently it is very murky and everybody is spinning it very hard. The only constant for me is my generally low opinion of this-centuries-FDP. Though I actually bought their explanation why they had all the social media stuff ready at hand: they wanted to be prepared and that they were. I don't remember when but I have actually seen a similar situation before: last time everyone shifted to the big center parties and all the smaller ones bled, so I'd expect strong SPD and CDU results despite what the surveys say if new elections actually happen. My prediction also includes that the AfD will not gain any votes but best case (for them) will be a similar result as the original elections, worst case 5%-7%. (Anecdote: Someone I know voted AfD out of protest but now found his inner responsible citizen and will go back to his CSU block vote, and I hope to think that was a sizeable AfD voter block. Also Petry and her stunt.) SPD on the other hand will now be a viable option for leftist voters who are interested in actual political agendas that become reality, instead of Die Linke who is more and more seen as the left ivory tower that does not want to govern or compromise anyways and is happy in the opposition. So it makes sense to me that Die Grünen and the FDP are really interested in putting the blame on each other because one or both of them will be the big losers come reelection.
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Nov 22, 2017 09:34
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https://twitter.com/notesfrompoland/status/933265494555152384 this is fine.
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Nov 22, 2017 11:09
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Germany could invade Poland and install a democratic regime
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Nov 22, 2017 12:09
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blowfish posted:Germany could invade Poland and install a democratic regime Only if we take the western, more democratically aligned part of Poland. Eastern Poland is a lost cause. For the sake of stability, we should make an agreement with Russia to leave eastern poland alone.
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Nov 22, 2017 13:06
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