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mango sentinel posted:It seems like a genuine attempt to be not racist from a bunch of white dudes who don't really understand what is and is not problematic and didn't do much work to check. Its not a genuine interest in being anti-racist. A genuine interest would be courting Geeks of Color and Black Girl Geeks with the passion Mearls used to defend Zak S. and RPGPundit.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:14
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Razorwired posted:Its not a genuine interest in being anti-racist. A genuine interest would be courting Geeks of Color and Black Girl Geeks with the passion Mearls used to defend Zak S. and RPGPundit. You're right. I still get the feeling they had intent to do better than the previous versions but clearly did not have interest in putting any work into it. As that pocgamer series suggests, they did the laziest workarounds to try and sidestep issues instead of address and correct them.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:26
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If at any point something would have required effort, I can assure you that the 5e team did not do it.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:33
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dont even fink about it posted:High adventure in Problematica! Problematica Britannia is going to be the Chult Companion book.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:43
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Not to derail, but since we're on the subject of official materials, I was wondering if any of the aforementioned FR gurus could maybe point me in the right direction for a casual solo game I'm running with my fiancee. We're a few sessions into a relatively short adventure ("Fishing for Gods at Strade's Gallows") and I'm starting to think ahead for the possibility that she might want to continue once we're through with the module. She went with Ghostwise Halfling Ranger from the Chondalwoods for her PC, so when I started looking up material for the area I saw a bit about a nearby enclave of Red Wizards and was like "yeah, this character's tribe is totally getting enslaved by bad guys", but it looks like a lot of the existing modules/adventures involving this faction, and a lot of the existing modules in general, have the characters somewhere on the Sword Coast. (And indeed I started the campaign out south of Baldur's Gate, so that's where we're at now.  ) Does anyone know of any adventures that take the PCs a little east of that (anywhere around the Sea of Fallen Stars)? I guess I could also heavily tweak an existing adventure, or just straight up write one myself, but it's been nice having a prewritten adventure as a jumping off point.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:31
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Mr. Maltose posted:I know when I fondly recall my mema I always think about her skull facepaint and prop necklace she got from a 40s adventure serial about cannibals in the darkest congo. Night Hag version of a grandma. Tomb of Annihilation is also still a very good adventure. With lots of interesting things even if you find some old stereotypes offensive. (Of which the Fey Demon is probably the worst.) Razorwired posted:Its not a genuine interest in being anti-racist. A genuine interest would be courting Geeks of Color and Black Girl Geeks with the passion Mearls used to defend Zak S. and RPGPundit. This is a banned topic. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 01:11
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Tough noogies, Mr. whitewasher.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:Night Hag version of a grandma. Tomb of Annihilation is also still a very good adventure. With lots of interesting things even if you find some old stereotypes offensive. (Of which the Fey Demon is probably the worst.) Oh so it's the Night Hag part that forces the artist to use racist shorthand, lest they offend the actually real and not a made up fantasy monster Night Hag demographic. This makes perfect sense and isn't just sad.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:21
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The problem isn't one lovely picture, it's the pervasive "Lazy African" trope that the POCGamer piece nails.quote:Local Agency: Chulteans are portrayed as being “lazy Africans” in many ways. They’re dependent entirely on foreign peoples and organizations for everything. Clear the jungles of undead? White people. Build cities and major urban areas? White people. Investigate ruins of Mezro, find out what happened to it? White people. Weird magical plague striking down the resurrected and preventing resurrection? White people. The Black Chultean is just a background character in the 5e Chult setting, where white people are literally doing everything. They have no agency, and apparently, no drive to improve things. The easiest way to fix 80% of the adventure's problems is to make the party locals from different regions of Chult and paint the factions from the Sword Coast in Port Nyanzaru as greedy assholes rather than as "a bastion of civilization and commerce in a savage land."
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Nov 22, 2017 01:27
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do all night hags take on racist caricatures as their disguises? is there a night hag with a pasta house named granny wop?
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Nov 22, 2017 01:53
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If WotC reads this thread there will be.
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Nov 22, 2017 02:10
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Kaysette posted:The problem isn't one lovely picture, it's the pervasive "Lazy African" trope that the POCGamer piece nails. Most of the factions in from the Sword Coast in Chult are greedy assholes in the adventure. The Chultans run the port and are in charge. Also it's not necessarily white people that are going to be the PC's. As there are a fair number of ethnicities belonging to both players of the game and the races in the game. Serf posted:do all night hags take on racist caricatures as their disguises? is there a night hag with a pasta house named granny wop? Consdering that Night Hags tend to look like mythological witches and stuff maybe. Do you consider Baba Yaga to be Racist.
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Nov 22, 2017 02:26
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Kaysette posted:The problem isn't one lovely picture, it's the pervasive "Lazy African" trope that the POCGamer piece nails. Anyone read the DMsguild supplement about Mezro? Do they include a description of the actual chultan city such that you could have it restored and place it in your campaign? That would help a lot I think. Certainly if I ran the adventure I would not use the hook with the wizard lady teleporting you there - you can be a Chultan or have a good reason to end up there.
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Nov 22, 2017 02:27
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Serf posted:do all night hags take on racist caricatures as their disguises? is there a night hag with a pasta house named granny wop? I kinda hope so, actually
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Nov 22, 2017 02:28
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I'd patronize the hell out of Granny Wop.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:05
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Wanted to do a quick write up of that single session, level 1-15 adventure I ran this weekend, so here we go: The adventure was setup to be a direct followup to our first campaign, The Sunless Citadel, but be ran with new, disposable PCs. To this end I designed it as a time travel adventure. For those that haven't played SC, the relevant plot points were my players killed a child white dragon, the last of a brood of eggs; and there is a Gulthias Tree in the campaign that was grown from a staked vampire. This adventure also took place in the Sunless Citadel, mostly as a time saving measure as the players were already familiar with the setting, but the encounters largely took place on new fields. The adventure was largely focused on combat, and broken down into five encounters. It was very straightforward, with little divergence allowed, mostly because everyone was on the same page as far as getting it played in a single session goes. We don't get to meet up IRL very often, so we wanted something we could all enjoy start to finish. The campaign flowed as follows: The adventurers begin in a tavern in the small town of Oakhurst, the same place they began the Sunless Citadel. They had been called here vaguely in their dreams, and they had met for the first time upon arriving in the tavern. It's midday, and as they discuss their feelings of being pulled towards the Sunless Citadel, the barkeep brings them drinks. Mid sentence, it is suddenly night time and the barkeep is gone, and the doors are locked. The players call for the barkeep and he comes down, confused and angry that they are there, claiming he's never seen them before. The players dealt with this and then proceeded to the Sunless Citadel. As they move time doesn't seem to advance, and as they approach the Citadel the sounds of insects and animals disappeared, and all was silent. The first encounter occured right after they arrived. In our previous campaign, the PCs had gotten into a contest throwing torches off a cliff into a firepit. As the players approached the firepit, a slew of time echoed torches rained down on them. They had also previously fought some rats in this room, and when one of the torches hit the fire pit, it burst into flame and the falling cinders coalesced into fire rats. At the end of every combat round, 5 tiles were randomly chosen to have more torches rain down on them, and the fire roared filling all adjacent spaces with more fire rats. The fire rats exploded when melee'd for 1 fire damage with no save. The encounter continued until the adventurers put out the fire. The adventurers continued to a door they had seen in their dream, the only door they had been unable to open in the previous campaign. They discovered it opened easily for them, but as it swung open they were transported to a pocked dimension and presented with an old man and a frozen fountain. The old man welcomed them back as dun'thun(draconic: half the blood the lesser) and asked if they had brought him the dun'thacht (half the blood the greater). The players seemed confused as they had never talked with this NPC before, and the NPC seemed confused as he had sent them on a quest. The old man's age also seemed to be fluctuating with his temperament, and he appeared much younger whenever he calmed down. Convincing the players that they were stranded in broken time until they recovered the dun'thacht, which had been stolen from him by the friendly man, he sent the players back to "the before", and gave them an item to help them find their way back. The world went dark around the players and they were suddenly in large forest, and they found themselves with new memories and level 3. They could hear a stream near by, and headed that way. On the way they began to notice creatures moving around them, and called out for the creatures to show themselves. This was met with giggling. Once they reached the streams a dryad came out from the trees and began conversing with the PC Druid. In the middle of their conversation their was a shriek, and a shadow covered the moon, quickly followed by a hail of fiery dragon breath. The forest in flames, and their bound trees dying, the dryad and her kin went mad and attacked the adventurers. After defeating them, their item flashed and took them to the next time period. When the world came back into view they were in The Sunless Citadel, pre-sinking, in all it's glory. They were also level 6 with more memories. After a moment there was another flash, and timeshifted versions of themselves appeared in front of them. Both groups time traveling items flew through the air and smashed together into one. Both groups realizing that only one group wouldn't be stuck there in time began to battle. Once the battle was finished the players moved on to the next time period. The players appeared in the caves below the Sunless Citadel, where the Galfias Tree was in the previous campaign. Again, new memories, level 10. They were jumped by a legendary vampire hunter, known about the lands a hundred years ago. She explained that a vampire had made it's den in this cave, which she thought was odd as it was so shambled. She also said the vampire had some item it seemed to value greatly, but she hadn't been able to pin it down. The group worked with her to defeat the vampire and his spawn, and discovered that it had a dragon egg. The vampire hunter tried to smash it, but the adventurers stopped her and began to time travel. The adventurers appeared back in the pocket dimension with the egg, level 15. The old man is excited, and says that it is the dun'thacht. The adventurers convince him to calm down enough to explain what had happened. The Sunless Citadel had once been home to a dragon cult, and they had performed many dark experiments to gain power. One of these experiments tried to tie their own mortality to the warping of time created by the magical presence of a dragon. But what they actually did was tie their bloodlines existence in time to the bloodline of the dragons. He then began to live in a pocket dimension with a dragon egg from that bloodline that would never hatch due to the properties of that dimension, to protect it. It was eventually stolen by "the friendly man", the vampire who charmed him. Everything was still fine though, because the bloodline of the dragons had lived on naturally, until our adventurers in the previous campaign killed the last of that line. With the egg having been stolen, and ultimately destroyed by the vampire hunter in the original timeline, the bloodline of the dragons had been broken and the descendants of the dragon cultists who performed the rituals, the current adventurers, were becoming increasingly time broken. As he finishes this explanation the Vampire Hunter stands up behind them, dazed and confused. As the adventurers began to time travel she had made a dive for the egg to try and destroy it and got sucked into the time travel with them. The old man sees her and begins to freak out. She wasn't supposed to be there, and them bringing her to this time broke the previous timeline she had existed in. Without her to destroy the dragon egg in the original timeline, the vampire succeeded in his goal. This basically causes the echo of the new timeline to appear in front of them, an Ancient Vampiric Dragon. A battle comences, and as they strike the finishing blow they appear back in the tavern at level 1 again, vague memories of the events that had transpired. As they are discussing them, the vampire hunter walks into the tavern, sits down at the bar, and the campaign ended. It definitely wasn't perfect, but I only had like a week to put it together, and also it was the first adventure I'd ever written/DMd, and it had a lot of weird factors that made it even weirder. Was fun though.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:Consdering that Night Hags tend to look like mythological witches and stuff maybe. Do you consider Baba Yaga to be Racist. the racism defender has logged on Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Maybe I just don't know the stereotypes it's referencing but it's just a creepy old lady. it's exactly this sort of ignorance that got the picture both drawn and put in the book
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Nov 22, 2017 03:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:Consdering that Night Hags tend to look like mythological witches and stuff maybe. Do you consider Baba Yaga to be Racist. Considering the stereotypical "mythological" witch is anti-Semitic in design, if they made Baba Yaga look like a bog standard witch it'd be kind of racist yes.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:48
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Serf posted:is there a night hag with a pasta house named granny wop? MonsterEnvy posted:Consdering that Night Hags tend to look like mythological witches and stuff maybe There's no way you can be serious about this, right?
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Nov 22, 2017 03:49
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this sounds loving sick as hell
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Nov 22, 2017 04:09
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Around hags, never relax. Seriously though, don't make creatures that look like A Wyatt Mann drawings. It's not super complicated.
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Nov 22, 2017 04:27
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Serf posted:do all night hags take on racist caricatures as their disguises? is there a night hag with a pasta house named granny wop? Granny Gabagoolie. Heyy I'm walking here!
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Nov 22, 2017 04:37
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Watch out for the bubbe of the bog, kids.
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Nov 22, 2017 04:42
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:
I think the primary goal of those three or so supplements are about restoring Mezro. (As the City is on another plane or something)
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Nov 22, 2017 04:44
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AlphaDog posted:There's no way you can be serious about this, right? It was a joke. Though the do you consider Baba Yaga to be racist was genuine.
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Nov 22, 2017 04:47
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Watch out for the bubbe of the bog, kids.
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Nov 22, 2017 05:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:It was a joke. Though the do you consider Baba Yaga to be racist was genuine. If the portrayal of Baba Yaga spent more time making her a weird, anti-Semitic stereotype rather than dealing with her gonzo chicken-leg house and flying mortar and pestle and all the other cool poo poo you can learn from just skimming the wikipedia page on Russian folklore, then yes. This isn't loving difficult. I'm just a rando who has never done any research on actual African folklore and I know that at least some cultures have were-hyena witches!!! Why are they doing "ooga booga" witchdoctor night hag and not that?!?!?! Were-hyenas! And I'm sure they have even cooler things! Fake edit : I think I remember that there is something that's like a four-winged dragon with poison breath somewhere. I don't know if that's better than were-hyenas but it's pretty loving awesome and I'm going off of literally hazy memories. An hour of research must be able to make loving gold out of an "African" setting that had cool material that wasn't racist as poo poo. It's an entire continent!
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Nov 22, 2017 05:26
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Xiahou Dun posted:If the portrayal of Baba Yaga spent more time making her a weird, anti-Semitic stereotype rather than dealing with her gonzo chicken-leg house and flying mortar and pestle and all the other cool poo poo you can learn from just skimming the wikipedia page on Russian folklore, then yes. Yeah there is a fair number of cool things like that Dragon Beast which may be the Ninki Nanka from looking it up quickly. Though also from checking it appears that healers similar to Nanny were a thing 
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Nov 22, 2017 05:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah there is a fair number of cool things like that Dragon Beast which may be the Ninki Nanka from looking it up quickly. 
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Nov 22, 2017 05:48
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Wow, there are a lot of posts in the D&D thread! Well, that makes sense since Xanathar's just came out. I wonder what people are say-...
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Nov 22, 2017 05:51
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah there is a fair number of cool things like that Dragon Beast which may be the Ninki Nanka from looking it up quickly. In what loving universe my dude
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Nov 22, 2017 05:55
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Is it ok to concede that Chult is pretty racist but still think ToA is a cool adventure?
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Nov 22, 2017 05:57
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What’s the shibboleth I should look for in a copy of Xanathar’s to tell me I got the ones with the errata?
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Nov 22, 2017 05:58
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SettingSun posted:Is it ok to concede that Chult is pretty racist but still think ToA is a cool adventure? "X has problems but I want to run it anyway even as I understand that" is the unspoken thread title and should probably be the banner of the entire TRPG subforum. Like, admit that and go on your merry way.
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Nov 22, 2017 06:01
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Subjunctive posted:What’s the shibboleth I should look for in a copy of Xanathar’s to tell me I got the ones with the errata? Second printing.
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Nov 22, 2017 06:03
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah there is a fair number of cool things like that Dragon Beast which may be the Ninki Nanka from looking it up quickly. Stop posting, Michael Mearls.
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Nov 22, 2017 06:03
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Thats a real thing. How is dressing like that racist when it's a part of their culture. I don't get it.
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Nov 22, 2017 06:06
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The two look nothing like each other is the loving thing. I mean, congrats on displaying your inability to differentiate between people?
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Nov 22, 2017 06:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:Though also from checking it appears that healers similar to Nanny were a thing MonsterEnvy posted:Thats a real thing. How is dressing like that racist when it's a part of their culture. I don't get it. Those look nothing alike, the clothes aren't the same, the accessories aren't the same, the headwear isn't the same. What "checking" did you do, exactly? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 06:14
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MonsterEnvy posted:Thats a real thing. How is dressing like that racist when it's a part of their culture. I don't get it. they look nothing alike lol. you're reaching to make a connection between a real-world culture and a warmed-over rehash of white man opium-fueled fever dreams about darkest africa
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Nov 22, 2017 06:16
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