|
nessin posted:The major change that makes Chaos playable is the ability to sack and raze at the same time, which can be modded in. That and if you really want to wreck things the ability to have the awakened tribes be vassals as opposed to allies. It's really irritating to awaken everyone and the have none of them left because they killed each other off.
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
Playing around with some Empire army compositions, I think I can definitely say that the "dodging" behavior shown by the AI works on every projectile that comes in from a high angle; this includes not just catapult/mortar/rocket shots, but also magical bombardment spells. The more the projectiles, the likelier the enemy advance will stall and short-circuit while trying to avoid them. Even two units of catapult equivalents can be enough to cause notable stalling in an enemy formation. By this logic, and something I can attest to, two units of Helstorm Rocket Batteries will cause a ridiculous amount of disruption in enemy lines. I would even go as far as to call it an exploit because even heavily-armored infantry like Grave Guards won't just power through the barrage and instead keep trying to dodge, ironically probably getting even more casualties due to the delay.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
toasterwarrior posted:Playing around with some Empire army compositions, I think I can definitely say that the "dodging" behavior shown by the AI works on every projectile that comes in from a high angle; this includes not just catapult/mortar/rocket shots, but also magical bombardment spells. The more the projectiles, the likelier the enemy advance will stall and short-circuit while trying to avoid them. Even two units of catapult equivalents can be enough to cause notable stalling in an enemy formation. I started a chaos campaign (definitely wait for the foundation update to come over), and had a full stack of infantry just blob up into a circle and do nothing by circling them with 2 units of marauder horsemen while one mortar pounded them from a distance. A burning skull and bombardment from Archaon when he got close enough obliterated them. The AI's efforts to dodge artillery and reposition to avoid fire from skirmishers can be a severe hindrance to it in the right circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
My one issue with Kroq-Gar in ME is that I feel like he only has one expansion plan: Immediate neighbors > Silver Host > Queek > Araby Hell War. And while he's well suited for doing that, I feel like that would hamper repeat playthroughs (especially now that I want to try him again now that Chaos Invasions have been unborked). That got me thinking as to how to fix this: instead of pushing through Queeks starting area, what if it was viable to head up through Lamhia and into the Eastern Badlands? As is, all that territory is yellow-habitability for Lizardmen. But what if there was a way to change that? What if...Kroq-Gar had the option to get in on the Karak Eight Peaks Sweepstakes? The way I imagine it, Kroq-Gar doesn't have the same investment in K8P that Belegar, Skarsnik and Queek do, but hypothetically Maz told him "Great Plan says we need this place". Kroq doesn't have any penalties to not having K8P, but if he does take it: -Mountains are now Green Habitability (the secret to heat lamps was there all along, I dunno) -Locked into war with the 3 K8P factions and take massive diplomacy penalties with dwarves, greenskins and Skaven because everyone is like "Oi, what the gently caress are you scalies doing crashing our party?!" The intended result is that Kroq's expansion course is changed as well as what opponents he's intended to deal with. Thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:04
|
|
|
It would make more sense if the AI only dodged with units susceptible to that projectile. So units with low armor or leadership will try to dodge Mortar fore, and units with low magic resist will try to dodge magical bombardments since they'll hurt them more. SFO had this passive called 'disciplined' which prevented affected units from getting penalized from the Lord being gone (and rally more often). It would be interesting if it kept them from scattering as well. You might be able to disrupt the disorganized rabble but the elite well trained troops would power through it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:My one issue with Kroq-Gar in ME is that I feel like he only has one expansion plan: Immediate neighbors > Silver Host > Queek > Araby Hell War. And while he's well suited for doing that, I feel like that would hamper repeat playthroughs (especially now that I want to try him again now that Chaos Invasions have been unborked). I get the distinct feeling Krok's problems will be less problematic with the release of Tomb Kings since I'm going to guess they have a way to deal with vampiric corruption and would be easily alliable to Krok so he's not tied up in the forever war in a corrupt desert shithole. NAP and Military access to Khalida/Settra, march through their territory, and start conquering somewhere fun. Krok will direly need another habitable climate though because outside of the starting area and the helldesert, there's not much in the way of habitable land without loving off back to Lustria. Make the badlands habitable for them and they can forcibly insert themselves into dwarfbowl and then project over to skavenblight to stomp rats.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:19
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:SFO had this passive called 'disciplined' which prevented affected units from getting penalized from the Lord being gone (and rally more often). That's in vanilla.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:36
|
|
|
Who has it in vanilla? It was in Attilla/R2 (I think) but I dont remember any unit actually having it in vanilla warhammer
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
I don't know, actually, I only really remember it from vanilla rome 2 and seeing it still in the files.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:It’s worth it even if the ai never agrees if you can console command them to autoaccept and fix insane borders Very good to know, I thought you'd need a mod at minimum. Fangz posted:Backseat devving, but I think the way to deal with settlement trading is to make it so that only tier 0, 1 (and maybe 2) settlements can be traded. And/or "only if taken within the last X turns".
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
I really liked the Empire Legitimacy mod because one option you had was to return a territory to the former elector count in exchange for legitimacy. This was particularly helpful if you have an area you are about to lose anyway, or just don't want to micromanage that part of your empire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
I would like an option to just give territory to others, maybe for some gold or other deals. I don't need an option to trade for them. Would be great in my current Brettonia game where i had to counter invade the Empire but couldn't just sack or raze since that would loose me chivalry, and i don't really want land outside Brettonia except for certain provinces.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:This was particularly helpful if you have an area you are about to lose anyway One of so many ways the player can abuse the poor helpless ai when those options are available. Like settling everywhere it's one of those things that sounds like a nice thing to have once in a while but would end up making the game so much worse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
Elite units typically have Disciplined. Greatswords and the like.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
If you really want to abuse the AI put 6 rockets in an army. Watch as the AI runs in a circle trying to dodge a hundred rockets at once. They only start making progress when the batteries run out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 22:04
|
|
|
What's the range that dodging kicks in? Can you have 6 rockets, but turn them off until your handgunners are in range, than turn them on so you get full rocket+guns while the enemy just runs around in circles?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 22:09
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:Kroq, funnily enough, actually has a much easier start than Maz, since the upkeep reduction for Saurus means you can just roll a saurus deathball from the early game all the way to the end. I assume I'm going to rely on skinks for awhile, then get a core of Temple Guard in Mazda's army while using skinks and dinos as auxillaries? e: And Saurus instead of Temple Guard (generally) as my line for my backups? Anything I should know for heroes?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:What's the range that dodging kicks in? Can you have 6 rockets, but turn them off until your handgunners are in range, than turn them on so you get full rocket+guns while the enemy just runs around in circles? I think you'd do substantially more damage leaving your rockets on, than giving up the massive range advantage to try and game dodging units for two volleys.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
So how do you trigger Archeon to show up in mortal empires? Right now the only surviving force of disorder is the night elves as even the marauder tribes have been systematically eliminated. The spawning chaos tribes are a bit of a headache but with every other threat dead I can just leave stacks nearby to gang them the moment that they spawn. In terms of province count I have 51 and have already met the conditions for a short victory.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:56
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:Mazdamundi it is then! Demolish the Skink building you start with and replace it with the Saurus one. Money will be slower for a while but Saurus are rock hard infantry and will last you the whole campaign. Start off with as many as you can support. Later on I try to have around 6 or so in my stacks. Flakey fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 09:32
|
|
|
Chameleon skinks are stone cold killers though, so don't forsake the skink building entirely. Put one in a minor settlement soon after establishing Saurus war protocols.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 09:41
|
|
|
So a quick update on my situation. I have confederated with every Lizardman faction and now stand as the strongest faction in the game. Of course that doesn't really matter as 90% of the world is owned by allies with Tyrion just wrapping up the extermination of the Dark Elves. So even with 62 or so provinces Archeon still isn't coming.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 10:47
|
|
|
JBP posted:Chameleon skinks are stone cold killers though, so don't forsake the skink building entirely. Put one in a minor settlement soon after establishing Saurus war protocols. Honestly, I haven't had much success with skinks. I know they're there and they're conceptually very useful, but I keep on playing lizardmen like vampires and just burying dudes in melee infantry and monsters. It's far more effective, in my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 11:41
|
|
|
jokes posted:Honestly, I haven't had much success with skinks. I know they're there and they're conceptually very useful, but I keep on playing lizardmen like vampires and just burying dudes in melee infantry and monsters. It's far more effective, in my opinion. Yea, I just keep a couple around for debuffing monsters or kiting cavalry, they are not bad against other ranged units, but why use mediocre ranged when you can have excellent infantry or a dino instead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 12:35
|
|
|
Playing as Wood Elves in ME with coastal Bretonnian settlements, for a while I had very touch-and-go relations with Tyrion (genocidal god-king of Ulthuan) with him breaking non-aggression pacts basically every other turn and relations meanwhile deteriorating. I eventually win him over to a military alliance through bribery and things seemed chill. Then Momrathi declares war for no reason; there was a huge power differential and a world ocean between us. Cue Tyrion launching a bloodthirsty war of conquest on Naggaroth and owning everything north of the Fallen Gates and south of Hag Graef within 10 turns of war being declared. Meanwhile I haven't seen a Cult of Pleasure army making it further east than Tor Anlec. Game owns.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:41
|
|
|
I genuinely think Chameleon skinks are the best unit in the game. Those things do crazy amounts of work for their cheap cost.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:50
|
|
|
Actually I think my biggest complaint with ME is that Tyrion is always unstoppable and Lothern is always super finicky with relations. I had an Empire campaign that was going really well, but at one point my rating went to "untrustworthy" and Tyrion immediately broke NAP/trade, started a war, and wiped me out with ~10 stacks over the course of about 20 turns since I was also busy dealing with Vampires to my east. Even if he never goes to war with you, Lothern always takes over the island and steamrolls over whoever they decide they don't like. It's boring and I've never seen it turn out any other way. I've thought about trying to beeline for him and strangle him in the cradle, but that doesn't seem feasible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
Skink Chiefs are also secretly op in the campaign
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
Chameleon Skinks are definitely amazing. Basically never run out of ammo, actually good at skirmishing, vanguard deployment, cheap cost. I always put 2-3 in my stacks and they never ever died. They are like 2-3x better than regular skirmishers for some reason, despite not being that much most expensive.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:Skink Chiefs are also secretly op in the campaign How so? I just got far enough that I have to choose between mounts or vanguard+stalk and I actually can't tell if that's a real choice or not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
Putting the skink chief on the flying mount and then just rightclicking him on the enemy lord is pretty hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:56
|
|
|
Rincewinds posted:Yea, I just keep a couple around for debuffing monsters or kiting cavalry, they are not bad against other ranged units, but why use mediocre ranged when you can have excellent infantry or a dino instead. They're strong and very popular in multiplayer, but I find them to be of dubious use during a campaign. In general I find squishy, high-risk units to be a liability in single-player where you are expected to win 95% of your battles and do so with minimal casualties. It also doesn't help that Lizardman techs/skills tend to benefit their melee units much more than their ranged, and cost is less of an issue so you can just take some more dinosaurs instead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:Actually I think my biggest complaint with ME is that Tyrion is always unstoppable and Lothern is always super finicky with relations. I had an Empire campaign that was going really well, but at one point my rating went to "untrustworthy" and Tyrion immediately broke NAP/trade, started a war, and wiped me out with ~10 stacks over the course of about 20 turns since I was also busy dealing with Vampires to my east. I agree and also find that very frustrating, having experience it as Orion. I at least had Brettonia, large garrisons, and hellforest attrition to throw at him and survive. However, it is extremely on-brand behavior for Tyrion as far as the fluff goes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
Tyrion expands aggressively and turns into a colossus because he starts at war with like half of Ulthuan so his default approach is to conquer the entire island instead of sitting around in his own little playpen like the majority of AI factions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:How so? I just got far enough that I have to choose between mounts or vanguard+stalk and I actually can't tell if that's a real choice or not. They’re great in autoresolve, great for sniping heroes, and totally hilarious on foot if you stack speed. My maz campaign has a chief with 73 speed, and when he pops slippery I’m pretty sure he can outrun blessed carnosaurs. Plus it’s cool and thematic to send him with a couple chameleon skinks as spec ops lizards
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Tyrion expands aggressively and turns into a colossus because he starts at war with like half of Ulthuan so his default approach is to conquer the entire island instead of sitting around in his own little playpen like the majority of AI factions. I made a mod that fixes the first part. Giving all High Elves +10 to diplomatic relations with each other (all bow before the Phoenix King... except Caledor) also helps stop him being such a dickhead to his own people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:53
|
|
|
sassassin posted:I made a mod that fixes the first part. I'll have to try your mod again. I think I used almost all of yours but played as HE to fully enjoy them, so I didn't notice if it affected him or not and then I disabled them when a windows update was loving with WH2 (before I figured out it was the windows update, that is) and haven't turned them back on since. If it makes him less of a giant dickhead that would be a positive for me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
Is it possible to make a mod such that 10 or so turns in AI Tyrion gets an event that makes him either go elf murder or elf buddies (with diplomatic bonuses and etc) for the rest of the game
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:13
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:I'll have to try your mod again. I think I used almost all of yours but played as HE to fully enjoy them, so I didn't notice if it affected him or not and then I disabled them when a windows update was loving with WH2 (before I figured out it was the windows update, that is) and haven't turned them back on since. If it makes him less of a giant dickhead that would be a positive for me. I mean he's still a warmongering poo poo, but a trade agreement with Yvresse and war with Ssildra Tor refocuses his aggression and slows down his initial expansion ability. I really should fold the diplomacy buff as well, but I'm scared of breaking it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
The Chad Jihad posted:Is it possible to make a mod such that 10 or so turns in AI Tyrion gets an event that makes him either go elf murder or elf buddies (with diplomatic bonuses and etc) for the rest of the game I assume so. There's one for the Empire where you (both as player and AI) can prevent the empire factions+Kislev from declaring war on each other if you want.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:16
|
|